English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Gigili

17:01

Okay, thank you.

A: Woah, did you delete your one-year-old account?
B: Yes, and I am awesome like that.

KitFox

Huh. That's a little funny.

So my eldest is having a sleepover at Gramma's tonight.

@Cerberus Yeah. He's totally not my type. Kind of crunchy granola mountain man-ish.

Cerberus

I have deleted my one-year-old account, and that (partly) shows that I am awesome.

KitFox

But he has broad features, and long hair, and a very friendly face.

And he looks smart.

Cerberus

@KitFox Mountain man, as in rugged?

He sounds OK.

KitFox

Rugged, dressed in a pullover knit sweater, and green canvas pants.

Cerberus

17:05

Oh haha.

KitFox

With a flannel shirt underneath.

Cerberus

Ah yes.

KitFox

Also a beard and that sort of messy, semi-curly hairstyle.

Cerberus

I can't even imagine what green canvas pants must look like.

Beard, yuck.

KitFox

constructiongear.com/…

Except greener.

Cerberus

17:07

Oh, that kind. I didn't know those were canvas.

Well, if he looks smart, and doesn't have a weird accent...

KitFox

Cerberus

Oh, dear.

KitFox

Only more attractive.

Cerberus

Too much hair.

But I know some people like that.

But I guess it's not allowed, huh?

Gigili

C: What a nice question, how come it got a downvote?
B: Well, people are silly like that.

Means people are usually silly?

Cerberus

17:10

Yes.

It means people are (often) silly enough to do that.

Or silly in such a way as to do that.

KitFox

@Cerberus Not allowed? The hair or the man? Man is not allowed.

Cerberus

The man.

KitFox

No, but I might could get Danny Craig put on my list.

Cerberus

An actor?

KitFox

Um, yeah.

I don't think I have anybody real as a freebie.

Cerberus

17:12

And why are actors allowed on people's lists?

Because chances are remote?

KitFox

Yes.

Cerberus

OK.

It is interesting how most people would go crazy if they had to watch their man or wife do it with someone else, but some actually like the sight and encourage it.

KitFox

"Man or wife" haha

Cerberus

Well, why is that haha?

KitFox

It probably ought to be "man or woman" or "husband or wife." The parallelism feels funny.

Cerberus

17:17

Oh, in that way.

Perhaps it is a Germanism, where you would contrast Mann und Weib. In Dutch, it would be either man en vrouw or echtgenoot en echtgenote.

Or actually perhaps Mann und Frau would be more normal in German.

There's also Frau und Herr.

@Gigi: I'm checking out the Galaxy Nexus every day now. I'm not sure I can hold out much longer.

And I don't see the minimum price going down. Even though the S III has been out for almost two weeks.

KitFox

> My student is not showing up on my students page.

This is why I hate users.

This is all the information she gives me.

Cerberus

Arg!

smacks useress

Can you look into her account?

KitFox

I did already. That is her response to my question "I see three students on your students page. Is the student missing, or is he one of those?"

Well, great. I guess she answered the question at least.

I should just randomly pick students. "Oh, here he is."

"That's not the student I want."

"Oh, OK. Here he is, then."

JSBձոգչ

you need to be explicit with users. treat them like small, spoiled children.

KitFox

"That's not him either."

JSBձոգչ

17:30

"what is the name of your student? how tall is he? is he bigger than a breadbox?"

KitFox

And just see how long it will take for her to figure out that she will get better results if she provides useful information.

@JSBձոգչ I emailed her back and asked her for his name.

And with this user, I can almost guarantee that it will be one of the students on her students page.

aedia λ

"Not one of the ones on the page."

Gigili

@Cerberus So it's not going to be cheaper?

KitFox

@aediaλ Exactly.

BRB

aedia λ

And then you find out that she's trying to use a screenshot of your demo site.

Cerberus

17:33

@KitFox Haha she is probably both lazy and stupid.

@Gigili I think it will get cheaper eventually, but the price drops have flattened out. So it may be a long while. Or it might happen next week...no idea. I just meant that we have been waiting and it hasn't happened yet.

KitFox

@aediaλ lol omg thats porbablee it!

aedia λ

@Cerberus Guess what guess what guess what I got for my next phone! gloats

KitFox

Hey, how can I change my button backgrounds so they look nice with my zebra stripes? Just stripe them too?

aedia λ

Uh, you mean you're striping a table and you want to have the buttons match?

KitFox

I want to have them a little lighter than the background.

But the background is alternating stripes.

So I can't make it just one color.

But I can just make a style rule for my buttons within the table stripe classes.

Cerberus

17:40

@aediaλ Oh! Oh! What is it! What is it!

Galaxy Nexus?

S III?

aedia λ

@KitFox Right. Um. I don't think people usually make buttons different based on row/col colors... usually you want all your buttons to be the same if there's not a reason to emphasize them, yeah?

Cerberus

Or do you mean an accessory for your phone?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Ding!

KitFox

@aediaλ I want the buttons to blend in and be subtle.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Woohoo! Congrats!

Is it nice?

aedia λ

17:41

As my next phone, I meant, yeah.

Cerberus

Does it work well?

Any first impressions?

You like the big screen?

Mitch

@Cerberus Reg would close it as exact duplicate of the classics:

102

Q: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"?

From the top of my head, Danish "de" (practically never used), German "Sie", French "vous", Spanish "usted" are a formal way of addressing someone, especially if one isn't familiar with the addressee. Did English ever have this? It sounds as though Proto-Indo-European might have had this (based o...

or

16

Q: Did English ever have a "you" plural?

Outside of the dialectical form used in the Southern US, "y'all," has English ever had a plural "you"? If not, how does English get around using this form?

grammatical-number subject

Cerberus

Hmm close enough.

Mitch

They were so well thought out and answered...

aedia λ

@KitFox Do your buttons do the same kinds of things like in this example?

Mitch

17:44

that people instantly recognize this and don't bother asking again.

compare with 'a' vs 'an'

KitFox

@aediaλ Here, I'll show you what I did.

Mitch

also, I'm kidding. I was going to take you up on your suggestion for fun, and searching found me those.

Cerberus

Hehe.

aedia λ

@KitFox Names are buttons?

KitFox

@aediaλ Yes. I want users to know they can click on the student names, but it a fairly unobtrusive way.

Since this page is built for a different purpose.

Cerberus

17:46

Looks nice.

aedia λ

I would make them underlined all the time and use a: pseudoclasses to change color subtly on hover

KitFox

Meh. It's OK.

Robusto

@KitFox Still got the redundant double arrows, I see. Also, having buttons on the names of different sizes is a faux pas. Make them all the same size and center the text in them, if that's what you plan to do. Otherwise just make them links.

Mitch

But it's a good point, people are always all over a non-gendered singular third person pronoun, but no one cares about the difference among singular/plural/general differences in the use of 'you'.

Gigili

@Cerberus I guess I'll buy it then before it gets older and a thousand new models are out.

KitFox

17:47

headdesk

Cerberus

Just make the insides of the buttons a different (light) colour perhaps, like all light grey?

aedia λ

I didn't know for sure what your styling meant, and I'm the kind of person who would fearlessly click, so that's fine, but your users probably aren't gonna click

Mitch

@KitFox: change the color on rollover.

only very slightly.

KitFox

It does change.

Mitch

means you can 'do' something' like click.

KitFox

17:48

The rollover is the top row.

Mitch

oh. and you ...

oh.

what cerb said then.

Robusto

Also, you want some padding on the right of the number cells. 4px should do it.

aedia λ

What Rob said.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yeah. I mean, no other language has a problem with using he as gender neutral, while they all have separate "you"s.

KitFox

@Robusto I haven't gotten to the arrows yet! And I was going to make the buttons the same size, but not center the text.

Cerberus

17:49

Ugh html sounds difficult.

Robusto

@KitFox Well, it will look strange either way. Honestly, I'd just go with blue + underline. There's really no need for buttons there.

KitFox

@Robusto It is padded, but I just bumped it up.

aedia λ

Don't center them, just make them links

Cerberus

@Robusto I would prefer the buttons.

KitFox

@Robusto The blue just looks wrong.

Cerberus

17:50

I like buttons.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yes, and I've seen your desktop styling, which makes the dog's breakfast look appealing.

aedia λ

@Cerberus You also prefer XP. plugs Kit's ear on the side Cerb is sitting

KitFox

But I could drop the buttons and leave them underlined, except that I'm not sure users will know they can click on them.

Cerberus

►

@Robusto What does my desktop have to do with it?

Robusto

@Cerberus It reveals your taste level, graphically speaking.

Cerberus

17:51

@aediaλ Functionally, XP looks just as clear as 7...

aedia λ

@KitFox Leave underline; if you don't like blue as the main link color, use the blue in your table headers as the a:hover color

KitFox

Anyway, big huge meeting starts in about ten minutes, so I have to go print my notes.

Cerberus

@Robusto Nonsense. I just don't care about looks except in as much as they are functional.

KitFox

And make some coffee.

Robusto

@Cerberus Inasmuch as they are functional? What are you trying to say?

aedia λ

17:52

@KitFox Make me some too!

KitFox

@aediaλ thinks about this

Cerberus

I'm not having this discussion.

Mitch

@Cerberus I wouldn't say that English language has a problem, but that it's a culture thing.

KitFox

OK. So I will go back to what I had, but change the color.

Well, that was worth a week of frigging around.

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, then why do people use "y'all"?

KitFox

17:53

hates graphic design

Robusto

For you.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus for fun, or because it's what they learned.

Cerberus

@Robusto Exactly.

Mitch

@MattЭллен for fun?

KitFox

Oh, my stomach is so tight. I am dreading this meeting.

Robusto

17:54

inasmuch as ≠ in as much as

@KitFox Hey, if your stomach is tight, that's a good thing. Like, it's really tight.

KitFox

Like six-pack abs?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch yes, I say y'all for fun sometimes. It's not something I use, because I'm not some crazy southern USA American

KitFox

I wish.

Mitch

@Cerberus you -are- having this discussion (about graphic design)

@MattЭллен clears throat

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I think it is because they want to make sure people understand that they mean you plural in some cases.

Matt Эллен

17:55

@Mitch :D

Cerberus

@Mitch lalalala No I'm not!

KitFox

At least I learned how to round corners.

aedia λ

@Cerberus It's not that much bigger than my previous HTC Evo, but thinner and a bit taller (longer). I've still had service on the Evo while waiting for my contract to expire and be able to port my number, so I've had both in hand and really able to compare... and the nexus makes evo look like a heavy heavy brick of a thing.

Cerberus

And cutting corners?

Mitch

@Cerberus OK that was legitimately not in the conversation, so you're OK now.

Matt Эллен

17:56

@Cerberus right, this is what they've learned. most other English speakers can just rely on context

Cerberus

Also an important skill.

KitFox

@Robusto Did you get my invite, by the way?

Cerberus

@Mitch Haha, I am glad you've brushed up your narratology.

Mitch

but you plural vs you in general is also something that would be usefully distinguish.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен But "y'all" is fairly new. Why did they invent it?

Mitch

17:57

It's not fairly new...been around since forever.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus because they wanted to

KitFox

Crimney! There's the bell. Gotta jet. Later.

Cerberus

@Mitch Since when?

Matt Эллен

cya kit, safe travels!

Cerberus

Bye!

Mitch

17:58

anyyhing before I was born is forever.

Cerberus

But you're six.

Mitch

befir this century (he says with no scholarship whatsoever)

Cerberus

Before this century, certainly.

But before last?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus > Probably originally a plural form with plural reference, but sometimes used with singular reference

so they don't even use it consistenly to refer to the plural

(that's from OED by the way)

Cerberus

Well, I would say it us nearly always plural.

Robusto

17:59

@KitFox Which invite?

Mitch

OK I'm sure Mark Twain used i in some book

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…