Yesterday a friend theorized that fashion designers want anorexic models because they view them as no more than coat hangers, not because they're pretty.
Hm, devout muslim, eh? It's a "go to hell" kind of sin in Islam for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim. (and naturally it's a serious sin to have sex before marriage too)
She had a male muslim friend accompany her, swore us both to secrecy on pain of death, and snuck us into her room and locked the door and made us whisper.
This has led to the interesting situation of a relatively large number of men simply declaring "I am muslim", since that is basically all it takes to be counted as a muslim. (Muslims are not really permitted to question another's true muslimishness). These are called "Cupid's muslims".
Second: For any female muslims who don't believe in their own religion strongly enough that they care about that prohibition, fine: that doesn't change the fact that the Koran clearly says their doom is "the Fire"
@Gigili no, I can give you a reference if you want
@MrShinyandNew安宇 Haven't we had this discussion before? The large, very large majority of people who see themselves as Christians, Muslims, and Jews choose to disregard the literal interpretation of certain passages in their holy books, if only because there are always contradictions within each book. But also for many other reasons, or for no reason at all. I believe Vitaly insisted on not calling such people "Muslims" etc., or was that you?
I'm not going to get into this discussion today. I am pretty sure that the majority of adherents to a religion at least take seriously the mortal sins of that religion.
@Cerberus I find it odd that you challenged my statement about non-muslim-marriage being a mortal sin but then agreed that for the most part most religious adherents at least take the mortal sins seriously.
@Cerberus I am simply curious as to what you believe. Do you think that the majority (let's call "majority" 70% or more) of people who claim to follow a certain religion such as christianity, islam or judaism take the mortal sins seriously? the sins where their holy book explicitly prescribes enternal damnation as a punishment?
@Cerberus And how many of them required their husband to declare "I am a muslim" before getting married? That's just about literally all that is required to squeak through that particular law.
I know, and that is a fair point. But I believe a great many men in history have not had to do this upon marrying a self-proclaimed muslima.
Probably also because the muslima wouldn't take much comfort in this declaration, because she would feel that it was a bit meaningless, no matter what the Q'uran says.
@Cerberus I suspect that the number of men who don't even pretend to convert to islam, and yet marry women who remain muslim, is small. Perhaps they abandon their religion or they convert. They are perhaps muslim in the same sense that I am Catholic.
@Cerberus I have not looked into "Indonesian muslims" specifically. Anyway the rules don't change. Almost all varieties, despite whatever disagreements they have about the hadith or the other accessory teachings, they all agree that the Koran is sacred and true and the final word.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 Indeed. And each has his own "true" ways.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 So you say. I disagree. 1. There are people who interpret the Q'uran in different ways. 2. They pick the passages that they like. 3. They are ignorant about what the Q'uran says to some degree.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 This is one of the central tenets of Christianity.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 You should check out the fundamentalist Christians. They are usually at least as knowledgeable about the Bible as Muslims are about the Koran. I mean, if you only ever read one book, I guess you know it pretty well.
@Robusto well.... kind of. there are a quite a lot of different ways of defining "the one true way", ranging from a narrow doctrinal subscription to having ever been baptized with the proper formula
@Robusto yes but fundamentalist christians are a minority, and furthermore most of them still don't read the whole bible. Memorizing the entire koran is part of muslim education.
@Cerberus But I wasn't talking about "religion" in general, I was talking about Islam, and how the Koran prohibits a muslim woman from marrying a non-muslim or else she goes to the Fire.
however, Modern Standard Arabic is not actually anybody's native language, as the local "Arabic" languages throughout the arabic world are actually descendents of Arabic proper, and are not mutually intelligible with each other or with Standard Arabic without special education
The Koran is written in classical arabic, which is also used as "Standard Arabic". Anyone who is "educated" (in Arabic-speaking countries, anyway) learns their local arabic language (dialect?) and also learns standard arabic. Standard arabic is used for, eg, newspapers and newscasts.
People often speak both languages in overlapping ways though, and some people are not aware of the fact that they are code-switching between two languages.
@Cerberus local arabic dialects can be written, no problem.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 my understanding is that it's generally allowed for educational purposes, but such translations cannot be used in services and are not considered to be the "real" Koran
(in contrast to translations of the Bible throughout Christianity)
> The Mufti of North Turkey gave a fatwa to the effect that Turkish people may recite the Qur’an in Turkish instead of Arabic during Prayer, since they do not speak or understand Arabic.
English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…
English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…