English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mahnax

03:00

I'll be back in a few minutes, with more tea, and something to eat.

Cerberus

OK.

Mahnax

03:12

I am back.

I have pasta.

Cerberus

Oh!

What kind?

Mahnax

Ah, I have my exam dates now.

Well, it is a sort of lasagna.

With the wrong noodles.

I can't remember what these noodles are called.

Cerberus

Not the regular rectangles?

Still good.

Shape doesn't matter.

Mahnax

Certe! This would be delicious no matter what shape the noodles are.

Cerberus

Are the exam dates favourable, inauspicious, or neutral?

Yay for Latin.

Mahnax

03:16

Well, my English exam is on Monday, the 18th, from 1-3 PM.

And Bio is Friday, the 22, from 9-11 AM.

I like these dates; they are far apart, which is nice.

Cerberus

Good.

Mahnax

Quite. In fact, I think I will do well on these exams. I say that in the least arrogant way possible.

Cerberus

Hehe.

Are they national exams?

Mahnax

Hm, no.

We don't have national exams here.

Cerberus

Oh.

Mahnax

03:19

They are provincial.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Mahnax

Each province has its own curriculum.

Cerberus

Do people in your school usually get better or worse grades on the provincial exams than on the school exams/tests?

Mahnax

It really depends.

Since most school exams are made by different teachers, I can't give you a definite answer.

Personally, I find the provincial exams easier.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

That's usually the case here too, at least for good schools.

Mahnax

03:21

Yes, it does indicate good teaching.

Cerberus

Awww who is that?

Mahnax

An internet kitten.

Cerberus

Impossibly cute.

Mahnax

Indeed.

Cerberus

Okay, Dropbox works from Canada and America, but not from England or Holland.

So it's probably some CDN.

Again.

I'm in America now.

Mahnax

03:25

Ah, drive up here and we can play SSB properly!

Oh dear.

I have located a "most offensive jokes" thread on Reddit.

covers eyes

"How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?"

None.

Cerberus

@Mahnax I'm apparently in NY...

Mahnax

@Cerberus Ouch, that's a long drive.

Cerberus

Yeah I'll think about. Driver's license first.

Mahnax

Bus?

Cerberus

By the way, I'm afraid I don't get the Irishman joke.

Ohh I get it.

The famine.

Mahnax

03:31

Ahhhha!

Cerberus

slow

Mahnax

Great Famine.

Cerberus

How is that offensive?

Yeah I know, I know.

It is funny.

Mahnax

It's not really offensive.

But there are a bunch that are.

Cerberus

Funny offensive or just plain offensive?

Mahnax

03:32

Both.

Cerberus

OK have fun.

Mahnax

Mostly plain offensive though.

I'm leaving that thread.

Cerberus

Heh.

Wow, Xmarks couldn't find its DNS server either. So there may be some bigger internet problem.

Can you access http://www.nrc.nl ?

Hmm I can access Canada.ca.

Oh but I'm in America now.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yes.

Cerberus

Oh OK.

Hmm weird.

Mahnax

03:36

Yes, it is.

Silly internet.

cpx

Hi.

Mahnax

Hi!

Cerberus

Hello.

cpx

Does this set of courses look complete for studying English Grammar?

Mahnax

Hmm, I've never had to learn English before, so I don't know.

user19161

03:51

@cpx It looks terribly expensive. One also cannot judge from the cover.

cpx

I think It's missing many sorts of essential stuff for English Grammar.

user19161

Unless I can browse the contents and see if it is worth the price, I will not get it.

user19161

It looks like one of those 800 page differential equations texts that cost 100 bucks but has no proofs.

user19161

In short, a waste of money. QED.

Cerberus

I agree.

That price is totally outrageous.

user19161

03:53

@cpx Hey, I recommend something quite good and not too expensive.

Cerberus

I would need an expert's opinion that this method truly surpassed other methods by miles before I would buy that.

user19161

amazon.com/Cambridge-Grammar-English-Paperback-Comprehensive/dp/…

Vitaly

@cpx Is English not your native language? If it isn't, then you are already way above the level of most courses on the market. Get a nice reference grammar instead, and possibly a dictionary. I say possibly because there are many useful dictionaries on the Web but no reference grammars (legally, that is).

user19161

If you want something very good and a bit expensive, get the following instead.

user19161

amazon.com/The-Cambridge-Grammar-English-Language/dp/0521431468/…

user19161

03:57

@Vitaly Plus one for legally.

user19161

Books with lots of colourful pictures are only for kids, stay far from them.

user19161

Why pay for the pictures when you can see the real world with your own eyes in multicolour?

cpx

@ClarkKent: Yes, I agree that it's a bit too expensive and besides its seems to be lacking essential English Grammar lesson compared to that book you mentioned.

Vitaly

Cambridge Grammar of English was probably written with English-as-a-second-language learners in mind, while The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language takes the linguistic approach. The former would miss a lot of the fine points mentioned in the latter, but CGEL is a thick 1800-page tome that may be a pain in the derrière to work with just because of its sheer volume.

cpx

Yes, English isn't my native language.

Vitaly

04:02

Also, I feel it needs to be emphasized that neither of those two books is a textbook. You wouldn't find exercises there. They are called reference grammars for a reason.

Think of it as the ISO/IEC 14882 Standard, but for English. :)

user19161

@Vitaly One of my quirks is that I don't like exercises in any subject I am studying! But that is just me.

cpx

I have got to go for while. See you guys.

Vitaly

CU.

user19161

14

Q: Does "so far, so good" carry a negative connotation?

As a follow up to this etymology question, does "so far, so good" carry a negative connotation? For example, after having her sonogram, my wife asked the technician if everything was okay. The technician replied, "so far, so good." My wife later remarked that she didn't like that the technicia...

connotation

user19161

Geezis, this now has 14 votes.

user19161

04:16

@Robusto Thanks for the info. I'm left-handed.

user19161

@Mahnax Chrome might be the only way to get the most recent version of flash on linux soon. Adobe is discontinuing its development and chrome is including it as a plugin called pepper plugin. The 64-bit pepper flash is in the works. The 32-bit version is out.

user19161

-2

Q: Is this correct grammar?

Is this the correct way to put this sentence? "So I know you like coffee, and I know where to find the best coffee close to your work" Thanks in advance.

word-choice grammar word-usage

user19161

OT

Cerberus

Hello people.

user19161

@Cerberus Hi!

Cerberus

04:25

Am I the only one who thinks the Netherlands have effectively vetoed ACTA all over the EU?

acta.ffii.org/?p=1122

It seems each member state has a veto for the treaty to be ratified by the EU as a whole.

So we have killed ACTA.

Yay!

The battle is over.

user19161

@Cerberus A new one might come, we never know. No rest for the living.

Vitaly

@Cerberus Nice.

Cerberus

@ClarkKent Dutch parliament have voted against all similar treaties in the future as well!

@Vitaly Yup! But not everyone seems to know this. The fight is still going on, for some reason.

And there was a very large majority: all but one party voted to block similar agreements in the future, I believe.

And this party has only about 15 % of the votes.

I am trying to ask the people at the Quadrature du Net about this, because they should know, and yet there is no sign of this on their website.

Their IRC channel seems empty.

Mahnax

04:52

@Cerberus I might have to move to Holland someday!

Cerberus

@Mahnax Yay! You're welcome.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Thanks!

Cerberus

You already made yourself at home on my virtual desktop, so it shouldn't be too big a leap.

Mahnax

Not sure how well I would do, seeing as how I don't speak Dutch and all that.

Cerberus

As long as you speak XP.

Mahnax

04:53

Oh, I speak very much XP!

I've been using it for many years.

Seven, I think.

Cerberus

And you don't need to speak Dutch, as long as you speak English.

Mahnax

I'm not sure if I speak English.

Cerberus

Seven is the perfect number.

Canadian will possibly do as well.

As long as you say a boot.

Mahnax

Well I do speak a bit of that.

Cerberus

Good, good.

Mahnax

04:54

But I don't say aboot.

I do say "eh" sometimes, though.

Cerberus

Eh? Is that Canadian?

Mahnax

Yeah, it's another stereotype.

Cerberus

Hmm I did not know that.

Now I shall have to watch Youtube videos of Canadians saying eh.

Mahnax

Haha, go for it.

Cerberus

05:24

OK bed time for me.

Adios!

Mahnax

Bye!

Cerberus

Bye!

user19161

06:19

1

Q: Excessive downvoting

I usually hang out at math.SE being among top contributors. I find math.SE a pretty welcoming community, with many newcomers politely steered into a right direction, and given helpful hints/answers. I came across a question about email writing style I encountered in marketing emails. Since in my...

discussion

user19161

I think downvoting has become excessive on ELU. Let us think again before downvoting.

user19161

@Cerberus Good night!

user19161

07:59

Hi @skull!

skullpatrol

08:37

@ClarkKent Hello.

user19161

@skullpatrol So what dictionary do you use now?

skullpatrol

@ClarkKent Websters ... just kidding ;-)

user19161

@skullpatrol There are many dictionaries called Websters you know.

user19161

It has become sort of a generic name for American dictionaries.

skullpatrol

@ClarkKent What dictionary do you use Clark?

user19161

08:42

@skullpatrol I use CALD for now. It uses the same corpus as CGE, the CIC.

skullpatrol

@ClarkKent Cambridge is good too.

@ClarkKent The Oxford dictionaries are notorious for being laconic.

user19161

@skullpatrol Laconic is your favourite word I remember.

skullpatrol

@ClarkKent The OED is partly responsible for that preference :D

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

09:07

What's with the spam.

-2

A: Correct spelling of "program"

Learn To Read Online The beginning reading program, ClickN READ Phonics, is regarded as cutting edge and the first of its kind by the academic community.

-1

A: Correct spelling of "program"

First Grade Reading - ClickN KIDS is utilizing the power of the Internet to deliver interactive and individualized programs that couple sound instructional design with state-of-the-art technology to deliver instruction unrestricted by geography or time. http://www.clicknkids.com/

Matt Эллен

It's tasty for breakfast

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

-1

Q: What is the question for this answer?

What is the best way to express this answers' question ? Answer : Barack Obama is the 44th President of the U.S Thanks in advance !!

question

Matt Эллен

yeah! this is like the 2nd most popular question after a vs an

David Wallace

Which number most popular question is it, exactly?

skullpatrol

Second?

David Wallace

09:18

We need a FAQ, in the literal sense.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

We used to have one. Then it got destroyed. Annihilated.

skullpatrol

What happened?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Sep 21 '11 at 15:52, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

@GraceNote: has the algorithm for the FAQ tab changed? I see only crap there.

Sep 21 '11 at 15:56, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

It used to have actual FAQs. A vs an, Oxford comma, collective nouns in AE vs BE... Now it's "Plural of 'learning'", "What would you call a person who farts a lot?", and "Just how offensive are the terms 'retarded' and 'gay'?"

Oh. Oh. OH!

Looks like they fixed it!

Dear Buddha, I would like to thank you. And Ayn Rand.

Well then. Here's our old, new FAQ: english.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=faq

user19161

09:38

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 First HB, now DB. You are so interesting!

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Very impressive referencing skills there!

user19161

@matt Will you be aiming for 15k or 20k?

user19161

Happy June everyone!

Matt Эллен

I don't really have an aim here any more. Just spend my time chatting and tidying when the mood takes me. I'm going to try and think up questions for Cognitive Sciences

user19161

@matt The ODE seems to agree with you that programme can be used in BrE for a computer program.

user19161

09:49

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/programme

Matt Эллен

Well, that's what I base my argument on :D

I have an OED that says it

user19161

Let me try to tidy up my program answer then.

user19161

In fact now looking up several dictionaries I am a bit confused.

Matt Эллен

Well, you can use me as a reference! I am a native speaker after all. I might be the last person alive to use programme that way, but I'll stick to my guns to the bitter end.

user19161

@MattЭллен The native speaker argument does not hold water!

Matt Эллен

09:54

Yes it does

I am a native speaker, therefore the way I use English must be right.

If it's not, then I'm not a native speaker.

I spelt programme programme long before I read it in a dictionary

user19161

I spelt helicaptor quite often.

Matt Эллен

but you think it's wrong?

My point is, I didn't get correct until I started speaking to americans.

user19161

25

A: Correct spelling of "program"

We reference the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary. In British English, we write television programme and computer program. In American English and Australian English, we write television program and computer program.

user19161

I have worded my answer in such a way that it just references the CALD, no more no less.

Matt Эллен

@MattЭллен *corrected about spelling programme

user19161

10:02

The Australian part really confused me, and then there are other dictionaries and other meanings of programme/program.

user19161

Hello @david. What spelling do you use for TV and computer programme/program?

David Wallace

TV programme. Computer program.

user19161

Do you think they use TV program or TV programme in Australia?

David Wallace

I would expect an Australian to do the same as I; in contradiction of your answer, Jasper.

user19161

@DavidWallace I know that Australian English is closer to British English, but if you check my links there is something said about Australian TV program.

user19161

10:10

Perhaps I should omit the Australian part from my answer then.

user19161

After all, that is not really part of the question.

David Wallace

No, it's good for eliciting opinion.

And who does LRE think he/she is, anyway?

user19161

LRE?

David Wallace

(I just hope they're not someone I know)

The last Wellingtonian I met here turned out to work for an organisation that I used to work for.

The LRE who commented on your answer. He/she lives near me.

user19161

25

A: Correct spelling of "program"

We reference the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary. In British English, we write television programme and computer program. In American English, we write television program and computer program.

user19161

10:12

OK I have taken out the Australian part. Now nobody can fault me.

user19161

One might as well begin to talk about Indian English, African English, etc.

David Wallace

I have just cited a source to back up my position!

user19161

You may cite Matt Ellen Dictionary as well.

Matt Эллен

lol

David Wallace

I may not! I do not own a copy.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

10:16

The original will do.

David Wallace

@ClarkKent I'm going to fault you. You should NOT have removed the bit about Australian English; it makes nonsense of the first comment.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I don't own that either.

Matt Эллен

I am not for sale. Unless times get hard

user19161

@DavidWallace That first comment was written when I did not include the Australian part.

Matt Эллен

Even then I'd only consider it renting.

user19161

If you noticed I remained silent.

user19161

10:19

So reference things you think are right and remain silent on things you think are dubious. QED.

David Wallace

@ClarkKent Then you should not have added it. You changed the meaning of dave's comment.

Matt Эллен

But feel free to quote me in context whenever you like!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Con but feel free to quote me in context whenever you like text.

user19161

@DavidWallace Anyway I think I am happy with the answer as it is now, that is, without the Australian part.

David Wallace

And in fact by adding it, you've changed the meaning of LRE's comment and of mine.

I shall now have to delete my comment, because it no longer makes sense.

Or I could edit your answer, to put it back. Muhahaha.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

10:21

And I could edit your comment and delete his answer. The best of both worlds.

user19161

That would be changing the intention of the author!

Matt Эллен

hmmm. all my data are null. this is surprising. goes off to the debugger

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Your sentence a verb.

All your data are belong null.

Matt Эллен

hehehe. meme'd

David Wallace

And while I was editing my comment, the five minutes expired.

I have re-posted my riposte.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

10:24

Five minutes?

Them's two.

David Wallace

The five minutes after which one may no longer edit one's comments.

The yellow message that popped up telling me I wasn't allowed to do it said five.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Fascinating.

We are really getting lax round here.

David Wallace

Some experimentation may be in order.

Matt Эллен

That's what he said.

user19161

If you read all the answers, none of them talk about Australian English.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

10:26

Back in the day I had to edit my comments within two minutes, uphill, both ways, barefoot in the snow.

David Wallace

@ClarkKent That sentence is both true and false.

If "read" is past tense, it's false. If "read" is present tense, it's true.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 bare foot?! you were lucky

David Wallace

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Did you have to finish before you began?

Matt Эллен

we weren't even allowed feet

skullpatrol

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 That must have been hard ;)

user19161

10:29

2

Q: What is the name for a collective noun for a group of words or acronyms, that is a member of the group it describes?

For example TLA is a three letter acronym; Antepreroxitone (words with the stress on the third from last sylable) is an antepreroxitone; Noun is a noun.

single-word-requests

user19161

Is there any reason why nobody upvotes the answers?

David Wallace

Somebody should downvote the question.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@ClarkKent sorry, I've cast 1000 upvotes already.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 That sounds familiar, I recall someone saying that about downvotes recently.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@skullpatrol with an onion on your belt, it was doable.

David Wallace

10:30

and I've always heard "homological".

user19161

Well, we are not talking about homological algebra here!

David Wallace

No, we're talking about homological adjectives.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace homological, heterological, autological, is what zillions of questions on this site say already. Some of them I posted in a comment.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent Why not? Is it against the law?

David Wallace

Anyway, the question asks for "a name for a collective noun". I don't usually give names to collective nouns.

user19161

10:32

I thought that my autological would get 20 upvotes already!

skullpatrol

@DavidWallace is there much difference between Australian English and New Zealand English?

user19161

As usual, my thinking is wrong.

Matt Эллен

put it under your pillow, this evening, and the up vote fairy might grant your wish

user19161

@skullpatrol A difference of some water separating the two.

user19161

@MattЭллен You are assuming I use a pillow.

David Wallace

10:33

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 My apologies for not having read every answer on ELU.

user19161

Well, I use two pillows, so you are right.

David Wallace

@skullpatrol paprika.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent excellent

skullpatrol

@DavidWallace That's the only difference?

David Wallace

@skullpatrol Mostly in pronunciation/accent. Also, NZers use lots of Maorisms.

user19161

10:35

0

A: What are the better words to describe difficulty levels?

The difficulty level after 'Easy', 'Normal', 'Hard', 'Challenging' could be Level 5: Command level when the player will gain complete command over the game.

David Wallace

But I can't think of any written Australian English that wouldn't also be found in NZ English.

user19161

At first I wanted to lol over "command", but it could apply.

David Wallace

Apart from "paprika", which is what Australians call capsicum.

skullpatrol

@DavidWallace What are " Maorisms"?

David Wallace

Māori influence on New Zealand English

During the 19th century, New Zealand English gained many loanwords from the Māori language, mainly the names of birds, plants, fishes and places, but the flow stopped abruptly around the beginning of the 20th century. From the last quarter of the 20th century the flow resumed, this time of cultural concepts. Plant and animals Large numbers of native plants and animals retain their Māori names in New Zealand English. These include birds: kākāpō, kea, kererū, kiwi, kōkako, moa, pūkeko, takahē, tūī and weka; plants: kahikatea, kānuka, kauri, kūmara, mānuka, mataī, matakoura, toetoe, tō...

user19161

10:40

We might as well each have our own version of English: David English, Matt English, Reg English, Clark English, etc.

skullpatrol

@DavidWallace Would you say that the difference is about the same as Canadian English is to American English?

David Wallace

The word you want is idiolect, I think.

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace I was about to say :D

David Wallace

@skullpatrol I am not an expert in either of those groups of dialects.

user19161

I have a feeling the please yourself question will hit the MC very soon.

user19161

10:41

That means more upvotes for me, yay!

Matt Эллен

Quite probably

David Wallace

@skullpatrol I have, however, already told you what the differences are; so you can judge for yourself.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent Have you upvoted the question? it will get to the MC sooner if you do

user19161

@MattЭллен I have. I usually upvote the questions that I answer.

skullpatrol

@DavidWallace Thank you :D

Matt Эллен

10:42

@ClarkKent me too

user19161

@MattЭллен So I see I am the only one who upvoted it!

user19161

Oops, no.

David Wallace

@skullpatrol I find myself constantly having to avoid using Maorisms when speaking to non New Zealanders.

user19161

+2, -1.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent I up voted your answer, I would have said the same.

I've not voted on the question

user19161

10:43

@MattЭллен Someone downvoted my answer, so I edited it.

user19161

I guess he was not happy with my not mentioning that we usually use it nonsexually.

David Wallace

@ClarkKent Or for me, since my answer has a certain je ne sais quoi that yours lacks.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent maybe. one can't tell when they don't comment

user19161

@DavidWallace I upvoted all the answers there.

user19161

@MattЭллен Well, that is the only reason I can think of.

David Wallace

10:46

Why, thank you indeed.

user19161

@DavidWallace I have the sportsmanship badge, you know.

David Wallace

I never doubted it.

user19161

0

Q: Which is correct: "anytime" or "any time"?

Is it "any time" or "anytime" or are those two things different?

word-usage

user19161

Also, what do you think of my answer there? I think this is a good question.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. are they different?

David Wallace

10:48

I keep forgetting you can get +2 by editing.

user19161

@DavidWallace Only before you reach 2k.

David Wallace

@ClarkKent Your answer is untrue in NZ English. However, as there are other dialects, this does not warrant a downvote.

@ClarkKent Oh, you're kidding! There goes that idea.

@ClarkKent and I think the question is GR.

user19161

@DavidWallace But there is subtlety involved. I checked two dictionaries before answering.

Matt Эллен

OED.com doesn't list anytime as a word. is it a new word then?

David Wallace

5 mins ago, by David Wallace

I never doubted it.

user19161

10:53

I am not a grammarian so I usually don't include formal grammar in my answer, but now and then I sprinkle a bit here and there if necessary.

user19161

@MattЭллен Really? You have access? Oh I forgot you are British!

skullpatrol

The question asks: "Which is correct" but there is no right or wrong generally accepted answer...

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent yeah, my local library subscribes

David Wallace

@skullpatrol The answers both say that both are correct. So they're both wrong in NZ English, as we don't have "anytime".

Does anyone know what this question is asking?

1

Q: The logic behind the Mock system

In the market, there are different Java mock framework, for example, Mockito and PowerMock. I mainly ask in this thread what the logic behind the Mock system is. If there is an actual class, and there is a mock class. What mock systems do is to replace bytecodes of actual class with mock class. ...

java mockito easymock powermock

Matt Эллен

seems to not understand what mocking is all about

skullpatrol

10:59

@DavidWallace In places where "anytime" is not acceptable it is not correct :D

Hugo

@DavidWallace From the comments to the answer, the asker wants to develop their own mocking system

David Wallace

But are they asking what mocking is all about; or something different? They seem to ask one question, then answer it themselves.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…