English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

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00:20

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Q: A word to describe someone who thinks that what they are doing is just when it really isn't?

I need a word to describe a character who truly believes that their toxic behavior is for another's betterment despite being told what they're doing is wrong and hurtful. Example sentence: "Even after causing her good friend to cry, she refused to even consider the possibility she didn't help ...

single-word-requests

0

Q: Is there an English word for someone who is about to be married?

Literally, the person who is about to attend his/her wedding. Not necessarily engaged. Especially on the case of a spur of the moment wedding. They were never engaged but decided to wed.

single-word-requests nouns adjectives

Cerberus

2

Q: How is quean related to queen?

To my untrained eye, the words quean and queen look suspiciously similar, although they are quite different in meaning; so how did it come to be like that? Is this a coincidence, or are they etymologically related? And, if so, how are they related?

etymology

Is there anyone who agrees that this question is interesting and should be reopened?

Only 2 more votes are needed...

tchrist

00:55

@Mitch Both represent a probability of overheating.

Robusto

01:17

Wait, this is the chat room? Aren't there supposed to be French cats in here?

@Cerberus I don't see that it's been closed, unless you just got your wish.

@RegDwigнt You can also use the Kindle app on a PC. I only read on Kindle these days. So much more convenient. Call me an anti-Luddite, but Kindles ain't even close to the bleeding edge these days.

Færd

@Cerberus You just took it too self-sacrificingly this time.

Robusto

@Cerberus I upvoted your answer, though I must say it's not exactly a Sven Yargs* type of effort. You need about five or six more paragraphs (with citations) to be respectable since he came on the scene.

Cerberus

@Robusto Gratias!

Robusto

*Or Tom.

Cerberus

@Robusto Well, it was just an attempt to save the question by posting an easy answer.

Sumelic has posted a good additional answer.

Robusto

01:24

@Cerberus It's a slippery slope, you know.

Cerberus

My answers don't need to be perfect, nor even the best.

There was no answer, and the question was about to be closed. So I did what I had to do.

Robusto

Broadcast News (3/5) Movie CLIP - Aaron Loves Jane (1987) HD

►

Cerberus

01:41

I have no idea what that was about.

Who is "he" and why should we care.

I don't think my standards have ever been higher.

Robusto

You'd have to see the whole film, but it's not necessary to understand this scene.

@Cerberus I'm just getting on your case. Nothing special.

Feeds

0

Q: Is there a term for words that have more than one spelling?

Is there a word or short term for words that have more than one valid spelling (not corresponding to any difference in meaning or pronunciation)? The spellings themselves can be described as "spelling variants", but I'm looking for a word to describe the words themselves. I don't consider the ter...

single-word-requests phrase-requests nouns adjectives

Cerberus

02:21

@Robusto Understood.

Bedtime!

Adieu.

Feeds

03:05

0

Q: Substitution for : Spearheaded a project which was was never been done in the organization / is been done for the first time in the organization

Substitution for: Spearheaded a project which was never been done in the organization / is been done for the first time in the organization I am looking for a substitute in the form of Spearheaded a _______ project the blank can be filled with a short phrase Background: I was the lead engineer...

single-word-requests word-usage phrase-requests word-substitution

Feeds

05:51

1

Q: terrorist vs freedom fighter - what's a more neutral word?

Yes, often history ends up being pretty clear on which was which. This isn't meant to introduce moral equivalence when there isn't any. But sometimes the situation is more ambiguous, such as liberation wars fought without respect for the laws of war. So, what word to use when you want to remai...

single-word-requests

Feeds

09:52

0

Q: single adjective capturing "unnecessary" and with the connotation of "dangerous"/"destructive"?

"unnecessary" can refer to something that is unnecessary but harmless, or unnecessary and costly, but not inherently harmful. I am looking for a word to describe the situation where there is a government or organization that has hired a person who does not actually add anything to the service in...

single-word-requests

SmokeDetector

11:14

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Support for/of/to a specific standard or norm by HanniBaL90 on english.SE

Hamreen Ahmad

11:35

Hello

i have a question guys

Can someone tell me What is the meaning of "That's the spirit"

user1732

usually it means you are showing the right attitude

Hamreen Ahmad

in there

in the fourth paragraph

Cerberus

It means what user1732 says.

user1732

B wants to see the scary movie and says "That's the spirit" once A agrees.

Cerberus

> You are showing the right attitude.

Hamreen Ahmad

11:40

Thanks

Cerberus

@user1732 By the way, wouldn't it be nice to have a real name?

Hamreen Ahmad

thats her real name i think :)

user1732

:)

Cerberus

Oh, of course, yes.

By the way, @HamreenAhmad, if you want to research an expression like this, you might want to Google it.

google.com/search?q=That's+the+spirit

This gets you good results.

Hamreen Ahmad

becauses google finds lot of result

so it may be the name of movie or something

i cant get a clear answer there

for expressions like that

user1732

11:43

it takes practice my friend :-)

we call it google-fu like kung-fu

Cerberus

@HamreenAhmad Yes, it depends; but, in this case, you see several results that are from dictionary sites.

Such as www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary and idioms.thefreedictionary.com .

user1732

yup, start with dictionary sites :)

Hamreen Ahmad

i used google translate before asking but she didnt give me a correct answer

thanks

i try

user1732

np

have fun

Cerberus

She can be a bitch, that is true.

user1732

11:55

27

Q: What does "Google-fu" mean?

Exact Duplicate: Can anyone tell me what the suffix “-fu” stands for in the following sentence? I was reading an article on MSDN where I found a mention to google-fu. It says, “To search for C++ delimeters and code snippets is going to take a little Google-fu on the reader's part.” what ...

meaning etymology

Mitch

12:34

@Cerberus Ohhh. I'm slow. I didn't make the connection that you had been through all this already. How did you discover the name of the band, Barobax? I just couldn't figure it out, search terms, images, whatever.

Cerberus

@Mitch Wasn't it mentioned in the documentary?

Mitch

@tchrist yesterday it got to 105%

Cerberus

I don't remember, but I don't think I really had to research it or anything.

Mitch

@Cerberus It could easily have been, but I must have missed it.

Cerberus

Thomas went on about the band and all the stuff they did for quite some time.

So I presume he also mentioned their name.

Mitch

12:36

Only by the fact that you used his first name, that wouldn't imply by association that maybe you know the guy?

Cerberus

Did you hear how Faerd said Thomas's accent was horrible for someone who'd lived there for so long?

@Mitch No, I don't know him personally.

Mitch

@Cerberus Yes.

It sounded really good to me! (not knowing anything at all)

Cerberus

That is, I had heard of him.

He has been on television on various occasions.

Mitch

He was really fluent in the sense that the words seemed to come out of his mouth so easily

Cerberus

Yes.

But it did sound quite different from the way the Iranians spoke.

Mitch

12:37

@Cerberus There were a few clips n the documentary of him on American TV news shows.

@Cerberus It was a long shot, but you never know.

Cerberus

Oh, so he has been American television, too.

Indeed, you never know.

No doubt I will know someone who does know him.

Mitch

@Cerberus in he show it said he was some kind of correspondent for the New York Times (as one of probably many connections he has)

Cerberus

Yes, I think I knew him as a correspondent as well.

But I think he also did other stuff.

Mitch

I think journalists are often not the employee of one company but just sort of supply stories to as many media outlets as they can

and are maybe 'on retainer' to a few major ones

Cerberus

He presented the television programme Zomergasten for one season. It is basically a three-hour long talk every Sunday with a culturally minded guest.

@Mitch Yes.

Although it seems his main employment is with the NYT.

Mitch

12:43

there were all sorts of issues brought up in the documentary, but the one thing that stood out to me (very superficially) was the music

@Cerberus is he doing that from Iran?

Cerberus

Yeah, it's a fun song.

@Mitch I presume he flew in at least every week for the show.

I don't believe the guests would fly to Tehran.

Mitch

Hmm... then I found him a bit misleading then.

Cerberus

Oh?

Mitch

He kept saying how Iran is a closed country

Cerberus

In what way?

It isn't closed in that Dutchmen can't go there.

Several of my friends have visited the country.

And I know this other correspondent who also frequently goes there.

She wears the hijab when interviewing government people.

She is a friend of my friend's mother.

Mitch

12:45

leading us to believe that it's like North Korea

Cerberus

Oh, no.

But I don't really understand where you got that impression.

Maybe it's harder for Americans to go there.

Mitch

he said 'closed' more than once

Cerberus

And you will need to apply for visa and go through some difficult bureaucratic process, probably.

Well, closed in what sense?

You don't know anyone who's been there?

My other friends were going there just when the green protests broke out, so they had to cancel.

Mitch

@Cerberus I don't think it's difficult (except for the flight distance/expense, maybe visa?), and I know Iranian-Americans that go back and forth at least once a year

Cerberus

Right.

Mitch

12:48

But I don't think there's much market for Americans touristing there

Cerberus

So then why did you think it was like North Korea?

Mitch

even since things were relaxed during Obama

@Cerberus because Thomas used the term 'closed' more than once.

Cerberus

It is closed in some ways.

Mitch

he didn't go on to explain further

Cerberus

You know that.

Turned in on itself.

Mitch

12:50

I don't know what he meant by that.

Cerberus

But not "travel is impossible".

Mitch

@Cerberus but that's not really the case (unless 'sanctions' do that)

@Cerberus that's a big implication of the word to me

Cerberus

@Mitch Why not?

Sanctions have something to do with that, but also a government fear of outside influence and other threats.

Mitch

@Cerberus They are politically/militarily active in the mideast (that's one meaning)

Cerberus

Sure.

Mitch

12:53

and the other meaning of 'closed', even though they have restrictions on some media (FB/Tw), they seem not to be totally misinformed.

Cerberus

The government is distrustful of most neighbouring countries and also of the colonial powers.

Mitch

@Cerberus With really good reasons

Cerberus

It is afraid that they should interfere with it, as they are indeed still trying to do.

I hear opera singing from outside.

People are singing opera from windows in my street, a kind of festival.

Which has existed in some form since the Middel Ages.

Mitch

But back to my thing about music. Most of the music that was played naturally in the background of scenes he was filming (as opposed to music that was edited in by the filmmaker) was this cliched mideast pop sound. Like the music of the Iranian -American car transimission guy in LA in his cheesy commercial.

But the edited in music was things like Barobak which don't sound like that

Hard to describe the sound in words

Cerberus

Are they so different in your opinion?

Mitch

12:57

yeah pretty different

Cerberus

I think I need to take a look outside and see what they are singing.

I suppose Barobax comes pretty close to Western pop music.

Mitch

They're probably singing this:

Hich-Kas: Bunch of Soldiers

►

Mitch

13:13

@Cerberus maybe that's the meta-inference to make, but I'm not familiar with enough other music to tell.

There were other very general things I got from the documentary but I'll save that for later. I'll ask @Færd and @M.A.R. about the music difference (Barobax vs what I think of as cliche middle-east sounding music)

Cerberus

13:52

@Mitch Bleh.

Is that what you think of as "cliché levantine music"?

Færd

15:56

(From Of Human Bondage by William Somerset Maugham)

Nice book. It struck a chord, nay, hit a nerve with me.

CowperKettle

I wonder how one should pronounce the surname Kiecolt

I have found three audio examples

howtopronounce.com/kiecolt

There are two options.

Kaye - Kolt

and

Kee - Kolt

@Robusto I wish I understood the meaning of that.

Cerberus

16:32

@Færd One can only agree.

Although there are societies in which one always has enough money to survive.

Which lessens the degradation considerably.

Mitch

@Cerberus haha no of course not. It was the first link for 'persian rap youtube' for me.

Cerberus

Okay.

But why rap?

It's a pretty soulless and musicless genre.

Mitch

I think everybody has rap and it sounds mostly the same over the world

@Cerberus because funny

@Cerberus you're not listening to the right rap.

yes, one part of rap s that it's spoken, so it is deficient in musicality there

and the construction of the music part is not the point of rap, so there is a tendency to deficiency there

tchrist

> Or should we not ask questions about how to express things as clearly and concisely as possible?

Mitch

But rap/hiphop is the best technical poetry that exists

The subject matter is often idiotic. But so is the subject matter of most pop music

And (moe academic point-making), the subject matter of the first gangster rap (which is on the whole mostly abhorrent) was actually protest music, more about how the terrible gangster ethos was caused by blah blha white blah blh cops bla hl blha, and not really about exalting the gangster lifestyle that it quickly turned into.

tchrist

16:46

urban world problems, yawns

Mitch

haha ... puts down glock 9mm

CowperKettle

17:31

@Mitch I read somewhere that rap had its roots in poetic contests that took place in the 1920s

I agree that rap/hiphop is poetry that is "alive" now.

In contrast to the non-rhyming bland and lifeless poetry that appeared since rhyme fell out of favor.

I think that computer game art is the art that is "alive" now, in contrast to commercial lifeless and pointless "conceptual art" with exhibits like "lights go on and off in an empty room".

Færd

18:05

@Cerberus Good for those societies. It sucks that dignity comes at such a low earthly cost. All the more reason to pay up for it as comprehensively as possible.

@Mitch Ask away!

I see you've been discussing that Dutch series or Iranian music or something, and then pop and hip hop in general.

I think in rap songs the torrent of words could more thean compensate for the paucity of musical notes, although it doesn't have to be less musical. So if the lyrics make poetical sense and the words are well chosen and properly pronounced, it could be aesthetically pleasing. That doesn't happen too frequently, of course.

Top 10 things I HATE about Rap!!

►

This guy's a rapper himself. I listened to a couple of his songs. Decent works.

Feeds

1

Q: a word or phrase for 'enemy of faith'

I need to translate the German word Glaubensfeind in a text about the antique pagan reactions to Christianity. I'm hoping there's an English word or phrase that sounds better than 'enemy of faith'. The context is a series of statements by the early church fathers which show such a degree of intol...

single-word-requests

Færd

I JUST SUED THE SCHOOL SYSTEM !!!

►

Robusto

@CowperKettle What don't you understand?

This was the inspiration for the limerick.

After which everything should be self-explanatory.

Cerberus

18:40

@Mitch Indeed. And when you even take away the catchy tune, nothing remains.

@Færd This seems rather silly.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt: New way to learn the violin. Of course, they don't say you can teach an old dog new tricks, so ymmv. /nod

Færd

19:06

@Cerberus Suit yourself!

tchrist

@Cerberus Got an eta for you.

> η. (a) 16 bee'nt, 16 ben't, 17 been't (N. Amer.); Eng. regional (midlands and southern) 17– baint, 17– ben't, 18 baan't (midlands), 18– baant (midlands), 18– bain't /beɪnt/, 18– bant (Devon), 18– baynt, 18– beant, 18– bean't, 18– be'ant, 18– be-ant, 18– bei' (Staffordshire), 18– beint, 18– bent, 18– binna (west midlands), 18– bit (Staffordshire), 18– bunna (Shropshire), 18– byent, 18– byunt, 19– b'ent, 19– beyunt, 19– bin (before personal pronoun); U.S. regional (north-eastern, chiefly New England) 18 ban't, 18 beant, 18 ben't, 18– beunt; Irish English 18 beant, 18 binna; Welsh English 18…

That's just a few with "the negative particle affixed".

We used to have a proclitic version but that's gone now, will he or nill he.

> eOE (Mercian) Vespasian Psalter (1965) cxviii. 60 Paratus sum et non sum turbatus : gearu ic eam & neam gedroefed.

am and nam :)

Why the @#$%! is it easier for me to read the Latin than the English?

The English takes like multiple scans for it to sink in; the Latin does not.

> OE (Northumbrian) Lindisf. Gospels: Matt. iii. 11 Cuius non sum dignus calciamenta portare : his uel ðæs nam [OE Rushw. næm, OE West Saxon Gospels: Corpus Cambr. neom, c1175 Royal neom] ic wyrðe g[e]sceoe beara.

Yes, the Latin is definitely easier. :/

Only by interpolating the Latin combined with my knowledge of the Modern English translation of that verse can I hope to read the Old English.

And they say dead languages are easier because they're no longer a moving target. Tell that to Old English.

> 1680 E. Cellier Tryal Elizabeth Cellier 27 My Lord, I bee'nt bound to accuse my self, I desire it may be proved.

> 1765 I. Bickerstaff Maid of Mill ii. iv. 31 But hold, she says I baint to her mind.

ain’t and baint and bee'nt are all the same.

But these bizzinters are drunk on hard cider:

> 1896 G. F. Northall Warwickshire Word-bk. 29 ‘Yo' bisn't gooin' up the road, bist?’ ‘No, I bisn't’.

I want to say that bist is second-personal there, but it bugs me.

Which just goes to prove that Good Queen Vicky still hadn't solved the problem of universal education.

There ain't no barn'ts though, because.

Mitch

19:25

@Færd Oh, it was, to oversimplify what I was discusing with Cerb, that Barobax didn't sound like the other Iranian pop music I've heard. Does it sound specially different or special to you in comparison to most, or is it just one of many different sounds in Iranian pop music?

tchrist

Went Midlands has had binna for the past couple centuries.

If only there had been a volcano centuries ago to bury some town in Warwickshire so that we could now dig up their ancient graffiti and see what people really said.

Oh wait maybe we could.

There are barrow downs there we could dig up. Ware the ghosts.

> In a letter to his publishers, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien wrote that The Shire - home to the "little people" better known as hobbits - was "more or less a Warwickshire village of about the period of [Queen Victoria's] Diamond Jubilee" in 1897.

scampers off to pillage hobbits

Found the narts.

But those are second person for art not.

Proclitic thou nart, enclitic thou art'na, artn’t. Only the enclitics survived, just as in the rest of English.

> 1994 C. Upton et al. Surv. Eng. Dial.: Dict. & Gram. 496/1 [Cornwall] Artn't thou?

Seems corny to me.

A century before it was worse:

> a1895 T. C. Peter MS Coll. Cornish Words in Eng. Dial. Dict. (1898) I. 198/2 Thee beint, eint, or artent.

So they're getting better, those Cornish.

Pirate talk: THAR IT BE!

Cloten. To leave you in your madness, 'twere my sin:
I will not.
Imogen. Fools are not mad folks.
Cloten. Do you call me fool? 1100
Imogen. As I am mad, I do:
If you'll be patient, I'll no more be mad;
That cures us both. I am much sorry, sir,

Imogen. I am sprited with a fool.
Frighted, and anger'd worse: go bid my woman
Search for a jewel that too casually 1145
Hath left mine arm: it was thy master's: 'shrew me,
If I would lose it for a revenue
Of any king's in Europe. I do think
I saw't this morning: confident I am
Last night 'twas on mine arm; I kiss'd it: 1150
I hope it be not gone to tell my lord
That I kiss aught but he.

What is ’shrew me?

tchrist

20:02

32

Q: Come Take a Look at our New Contributor Indicator!

We've been doing quite a bit of research into ways that we could help new users have better experiences that ultimately lead them to becoming increasingly valuable, long-term contributors to our sites. While this is still ongoing, it's starting to blossom in the form of small but hopefully very e...

discussion featured new-users new-contributor-indicator

Færd

20:17

@Mitch Well, I guess it does sound different than most, but not especially so, meaning they're not too far on the periphery. I don't have the necessary pop-musical savvy to go into detail, but I've heard quite a few other songs that sounded or felt like Barobax.

This one, for example, I guess:

Kiosk - Agha! Nigah Dar ("Hey Man, Pull Over")

►

(The English subtitles are terrible)

Feeds

0

Q: A metaphor or easy way to say "definitely produce"

I'm having trouble with a noun or metaphor that has the connotation of "definitely produce without exception." Below is the context. "Note that the tendency to imbue the world with purposes per se is no _____ for belief in the existence of God but can easily set the ground for it because humans...

single-word-requests metaphors

Færd

I like this one too

William

21:16

anyone aware of any stories where the mother/father lead to their child's downfall?

something considered a classic?

ping me if you have any idas

I was thinking maybe a chinese/japanese parable but can't find one. English ones seems to embody the importance of honoring your parents and conveniently leave out apposing views most of the time.

I feel like this exists more so in times of technological change.

Cerberus

21:35

@William Oedipus?

What will you use it for?

William

@Cerberus I recall the Oedipus complex

but don't remember the entire story

I thought he ran away from his adoptovi

after his real parents put out to die

Cerberus

Oedipus killed his father and married his mother; upon realising this, he blinded himself.

William

His biological parents yes

Cerberus

Medea killed her own children.

So that's two classic stories for you.

William

Oedipus seems to be the opposite(ignoring the fact they left him to die)

he hurt his parents

Medea looking it up

Cerberus

21:38

His parents led to his downfall.

But, if you give no context, I cannot help you any further.

William

Maybe I should rephrase the question a story where the parents unintentionally lead to their downfall.

@Cerberus I am writing a short paper

Intro level college english

I am reading about Medea

Cerberus

And how will you use this story?

Oh, Medea was intentional all right.

Oedipus is unintentional.

William

so what part of the story is when his parents hurt oedipus?

I mean other then leaving him out to die as a baby?

Cerberus

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

His parents led to his downfall.

William

Leaving him as a baby to die on a mountain is intentional.

Cerberus

21:43

6 mins ago, by Cerberus

Oedipus killed his father and married his mother; upon realising this, he blinded himself.

William

My question comes more from a technological/parent doesn't always know best situation.

Compared to their intention of killing their own child blinding him is nothing.

I did read your statements though and I reading the Medea story.

Cerberus

6 mins ago, by Cerberus

Oh, Medea was intentional all right.

William

I'm going to read the story before I make the assumption the story doesn't fit my requirement better then Oedipus. Because Oedipus really doesn't fit at all.

maybe there is an old chinese parable or children's story

the last empire of china and era experienced many conflicting views

in terms of how technology changed everything making elder advice well terrible

Oedipus is one of my favorite stories though so there is no changing that.

*the last emperor

I apologize I just realized there is a literature that is in beta.

Probably best to ask there.

Cerberus thank you. I didn't quite answer your question. But essentially the paper is quite open ended. There are no strict requirements.

Other then embodying a classic story and parable and relating it to your own life.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…