English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:09

@MetaEd Alto? Tenor?

@RegDwigнt And those are easier than rewritings how exactly?

Færd

01:52

@Mitch Isn't the WC all about sexism?

Ha. They want to broadcast fewer shots of female reporters harassed by fans.

MetaEd

@Robusto Alto. I'll switch to tenor after I learn the basics.

Færd

@Cerberus Question! What does the monarchy mean to Holland?

I suppose I could look it up, but a brief answer would suffice for my purpose.

Robusto

02:21

@MetaEd Most sax players I know started with tenor. Makes soprano easier because they're both B♭ transposing instruments. Alto is E♭, as you well know, and the only other sax with that transposition is the bari.

Do you already play any other instrument(s)?

Cerberus

03:19

@Færd That is a rather broad question?

What do you want to know?

It is a symbol of tradition without any real power. Some remaining influence.

Highly popular.

The only thing is, we were a republic for 250 years, before becoming a monarchy in 1815.

So our traditional head of state should be a stadholder, not a king. Although both have always been from the House of Oranje-Nassau.

SmokeDetector

03:35

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, offensive title detected: What's a more proper way of saying I "Bullshitted" this english paper by Cameron on english.SE

Feeds

04:27

0

Q: a word for becoming emotionally involved

a word for when someone becomes emotionally involved with what's happening. It's a word close to empathy, for example, when someone is telling a really touching story and it's like you're feeling what's like under their skin. It doesn't mean to be sorry, but when something someone says/does etc....

single-word-requests

Feeds

05:36

0

Q: What is the action of "breaking rice" called?

I'm really not expressing the verb well. What's the correct way to instruct You have to "break" the rice before eating?

single-word-requests verbs

RegDwigнt

08:35

@Robusto they aren't, which was kinda my whole point. I think you misread something somewhere or something. I don't want to play more notes because more notes is more harder, is all I'm saying.

RegDwigнt

11:35

0

Q: Prepostion question

23 judges against a maximum possible strength of 31. What does AGAINST mean over here ? please give a proper example to explain me properly . Thank you.

prepositions

They misspelled "preposterous".

Mitch

11:47

@RegDwigнt Broken rice syndrome

Færd

12:49

@Cerberus Thank you.

I was watching this debate on BBC-e-Farsi, a host and two discussant both of whom defended the latest Iranian monarchy's record but had different views as to how to proceed. Both were also okay with restoration of the Pahlavi dynasty and crowning the last Shah's son as the heir to the throne.

A biased bunch.

During the discussion, they invoked the case in Holland and the UK as countries that were successfully democratized without abandoning their past altogether, and since monarchy is deeply entrenched in the lives and minds of Iranians, they need to follow that course too.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Don't blame your mess on me. And btw, more notes is easier. It's playing long tones and slow melodies that's hard. QED

Færd

I was disgusted and crept out the whole time, but still I wanted to know what exactly the monarchy means to you and whether your model could be considered suitable for Iran.

Robusto

@Færd What is a "discussant"? I have never heard the term. But if it does exist—certainly a possibility—shouldn't two of them be plural?

The usual term in American English would be blowhard.

Færd

@Robusto Yes, that was a typo. Thanks.

A person who takes parts in a discussion, is what ODO tells me. I've heard it from AmE speakers frequently.

Or maybe just a few times.

Robusto

@Færd I've somehow avoided it for the past few decades.

@Færd I'd use creeped out there, because the normal past tense for the strong verb will make it sound like you left the room surreptitiously.

Færd

13:00

@Robusto I have some young English speaking friends, quite well-read and literate, who are introducing me to a whole new era of English vocabulary!

@Robusto Thank you. You're absolutely right there.

Robusto

@Færd So now you're saying I'm not well-read and literate? Pssht.

Færd

Of course not.

Robusto

I'm just messing with you.

Færd

OK then maybe I'm saying that.

Robusto

BTW, era is probably not the right word there.

Færd

13:02

What would you use instead?

age?

I wanted in to connote the evolution of the language.

Robusto

Which sounds a little odd. If you set it up better, maybe it would work.

Færd

Hmm. Thanks.

Robusto

When I read "introducing me to a whole new era of English vocabulary" I see an ambiguity: are you talking about the English of the Jazz Age? The English Reformation?

It might work if you said something like "They are launching me into a whole new era of learning English vocabulary."

Færd

That only differs from what I said in the launching part.

Robusto

Clearer would be "They are improving my English vocabulary."

@Færd No, it makes clearer that the emphasis is on your learning.

Færd

13:09

I wanted to say the vocabulary I'm learning from them sometimes sounds foreign to other, maybe older, English speakers.

Mitch

@Færd I thought sports were all about controlled aggression (= competition). I realize that that is boring, but I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Robusto

@Færd Then say that. What you said is problematic.

@Mitch Is passive indifference a sport?

Mitch

@Robusto If the sports people don't care, then you've won!

But if you win then you've fallen into their game.

Robusto

@Mitch I could really shine in a sport like that.

Mitch

feels anxiety attack coming on

which makes me feel more normal

and less anxious

Robusto

13:13

"As he moved swiftly toward the goal, a wave of passive indifference swept over the crowd!"

Hmm. Maybe the exclamation point was too much there?

Mitch

ha ha?

Robusto

Question mark doesn't work either.

Mitch

@Færd The Dutch and UK (and Scandinavian) monarchies were maintained for political reasons. (in the UK powers were steadily decreased over time).

But in France and Iran, the monarchies were removed politically (and forcefully).

Robusto

Off with your head!

And off with me. My bike isn't going to ride itself. Laterz.

Mitch

@Færd What exactly would be the point of restoring any kind of monarchy except for the benefit of the people given titles (and the very few politicians helping them)? As it is the UK monarchy is benefitting from tax-exempt status (or I think maybe recently they've had to start paying taxes, so it's years of tax exempt status)

@Robusto We've discussed this. Of course it could, with a little work.

Wait. You already know this. But if anything, the (former) Iranian monarchy is deeply entrenched in the minds of Iranians in a totally bad way. Only if the economy gets terrible in Iran and there is lots of evidence of corruption in the government, will other 'types' of government be considered.

It's more likely that Russia will return to a monarchy because there is more popular 'nostalgia' for it there. But 'more' is relative.

Færd

13:27

@Robusto Maybe if I explain my intention further, you won't find my usage problematic.

@Mitch Yeah, they say they want to bring back constitutional, not autocratic, monarchy.

But I need to go now.

hurries out

Cerberus

13:38

@Færd With your explanation, it sounded fine to me. Perhaps a slight metaphor, i.e. it is of course not literally an era.

CowperKettle

> Blessed is he who aye avoids
That cursed lot, cannabinoids;
Except for cannabidiol,
Which slightly differs from them all.

@Mitch Starred as laughable

Many people in Russia voice their contempt towards the late emperor Nicholas, and those members of his family that are alive now.

I doubt that a restoration of monarchy is possible.

As for me, I do not consider Nicholas a particularly bad person, and I dislike this scorn towards him. But I don't like his living descendants.

Cerberus

@Mitch What do you mean by "political reasons"?

We've been ruled by the House of Orange for 450 years; the reason (for the past century and a half) is tradition, which is a super important factor in most societies and people's personal expressions and desires.

Though it was never a monarchy until 1815.

And even then, the king was not allowed to actually be crowned or a wear a crown!

Still isn't.

@Færd So about monarchies, we kept ours because it never was excessive, nor hated by many people, nor did it have absolute power.

That's why we never needed a revolution or similar.

It gradually evolved into a mostly symbolic function.

I'm not sure whether it's possible to replant a dispelled monarchy on the throne, nor especially one that was hated by so many people.

France did get its monarchy back after an hiatus of a few years (Napoleon), and after Napoleon it was a monarchy again for most of the 19th century.

Which went reasonably well.

So perhaps it is possible.

Mitch

14:30

@CowperKettle the operative word is 'relative'. A restoration in Russia is unlikely (despite some reporting of 'monarchists' in the country). Similarly in Iran, but I think it is even rarer in Iran. So saying it is more likely (realtively) in Russia is really saying it is very unlikely (absolute) in Iran.

Cerberus

I agree.

Even so, look at what happened in Rome.

Mitch

@Færd I'm not sure what the difference is, and I'm not sure what other people think the practical difference is. The nominally constitutional monarchy in the UK is powerless. Why would any country want to restore a monarchy to that? It'd be like a marketing campaign for a non-existent product.

Cerberus

> the reason (for the past century and a half) is tradition, which is a super important factor in most societies and people's personal expressions and desires.

Mitch

@Cerberus Would you consider that a restoration or a... I don't know, some other word?

Cerberus

Not exactly.

But they did become a monarchy again after having hated the previous one for half a millennium after its abolition.

Mitch

14:37

@Cerberus political in the sense that people's desire for a tradition might convince politicians that it is better to keep a monarchy (whether powerless and just for perception, or more powerful and part of the governing process)

Cerberus

Then what would be a typical non-political reason?

Mitch

@Cerberus It's hard for me to tell what the historical perspective of people in the middle of it was. I feel like the loss of the Roman Republic wasn't a general democratic process, but that people just fell into it because of strong monarchical leadership (JC leading to Augustus)

and using 'restoration' for short term things seems more appropriate as it is associated with the 1689 restoration in England after only 30 years..

MetaEd

Powerless monarchy is a contradiction in terms.

Mitch

@Cerberus hm. I don't know. maybe I'm using 'political' meaninglessly.

@MetaEd Tell that to the Queen

Let's say by political I meant other people maintained it. The monarchy didn't wield power in a way to maintain itself.

MetaEd

@Mitch I'd tell her she's not a monarch, but she probably knows that already, and besides she'd throw her hat at me.

Mitch

14:42

@MetaEd that would hurt

her hat that is.

MetaEd

Might start a new trend in headwear.

Mitch

hat-throwing hats?

tell her while she's wearing the crown

be careful catching it. it's spiky

MetaEd

@Mitch Oddjob type hats.

Mitch

crowns. how pretentious.

"La la la. I'm wearing a crown. La la I look better than you"

No, the crown looks great. You're just sitting underneath it.

Cerberus

@Mitch It hardly ever is a democratic process. Then again, very few democracies have existed in the past, and the Roman republic was not very democratic anyway.

@MetaEd A very small amount of archy, albeit in the hands one one person, may still be close to no power.

@Mitch I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that.

Mitch

14:48

@Cerberus me neither

In the case of Holland was there ever a situation/event where the monarchy had demonstrable power (to make laws, wage war, conduct trade) and then at a later date (either suddenly through events or over time) did not have any of those powers?

I don't know the history, but it seems like the monarchy in NL is like that in the UK, powerless, and keeping it around is either a political decision (not for any practical end) or lack of any need to do anything (which I might call political also)

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes, of course?

@Mitch It is almost powerless now, yes, but not in the past, just as in England.

Between 1568 and 1815, the stadtholder was not strictly a monarch, as he was theoretically chosen by each of the provinces.

How much power he possessed varies with the circumstances.

When the people were really fed up with the ruling families, they would make the stadholder much more powerful, e.g. during the invasion by the French, English, German armies in 1672.

At other times, the House of Orange became so powerless that no stadholder was chosen at all.

This happened twice.

First Stadtholderless Period

The First Stadtholderless Period or Era (1650–72; Dutch: Eerste Stadhouderloze Tijdperk) is the period in the history of the Dutch Republic in which the office of a Stadtholder was absent in five of the seven Dutch provinces (the provinces of Friesland and Groningen, however, retained their customary stadtholder from the cadet branch of the House of Orange). It happened to coincide with the period when it reached the zenith of its economic, military and political Golden Age. The term has acquired a negative connotation in 19th-century Orangist Dutch historiography, but whether such a negative view...

SmokeDetector

15:20

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, offensive title detected, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title: Not one of them born whose asshole wouldn’t pucker up tighter than a snare drum when you ask them for funds by Haemin Kim on english.SE

fp feedback on autoflagged post: Not one of them born whose asshole wouldn’t pucker up tighter than a snare drum when you ask them for funds MS ()

Feeds

0

Q: Adjective/phrase for a situation that requires fast and accurate decisions

My sentence is At the individual level, it seeks to provide an objective risk estimate for medical decision making in the highly charged and emotional environment of intensive care I want to rephrase the bolded parts so as to give an effect of the intensive care being a place where decisions nee...

single-word-requests phrase-requests paraphrasing

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, potentially bad keyword in body: "Not one of them born whose a*****e wouldn’t pucker up tighter than a snare drum when you ask them for funds" by Haemin Kim on english.SE

Feeds

18:38

0

Q: Single word for both check in an check out

I am looking for a single word that refers to both check in and check out as sustantives. I was thinking in using checks but that does not seem right, as it may refer to any other kind of check. I was also thinking using some term like events, but there can be many types of events, not just chec...

single-word-requests

Feeds

18:57

0

Q: A less metaphorical word for 'losing game'?

When you have two options to chose between and either would not benefit you, so whichever you chose will be bad. Like the word 'destined' with a more permanent bad destination. Example: It would make no difference to choose X over Y, they would both kill me. It was a (word)

single-word-requests

Færd

19:44

@Cerberus Yes, calling the younger generation's idiom "a new era" was hyperbolic.

And thanks for the historical explanations. I see that there are striking disparities between the Dutch and the latest Iranian monarchy.

@Mitch I think many Iranians are already dreaming of/considering other types of governance, but for the most part a monarchy is as irrelevant to those dreams as it gets.

Then again, the incumbent regime is semi-autocratic and yet many other people don't disapprove of its nature. But that has more to do with their religiosity than their love for autocracy.

Now and again in clamorous times, clips of some protesters chanting "God bless Reza Shah!" (funny that the name of the last Shah doesn't come up much!) or some such nonsense does make the rounds, but it tells little about the climate of opinion.

So yeah, I think to most Iranians the idea of restoring the Pahlavi dynasty is ridiculously pointless, but I had nothing to do with the debate on BBC-e-Farsi, and I don't expect them to be impartial about this anyway.

Mitch

@Færd I've never gotten that straight. What then was the name of the last Shah? It wasn't Reza Shah? If not, who is Reza Shah, and what was the name of the last Shah?

Irrelevantly, I was about to post the following comment:

> Your personal feeling of what a word means is certainly legitimate information when talking directly to you, and from your description, when talking to people who don't know what the word means. Since this is ELU, the general assumption is that questioners want to find out for people who do know what these words mean, which one is the best.

But I didn't because 1) It was probably too mean, and 2) I often comment what it is I think something means just for openness.

Hypocrisy is how vice praises virtue

Færd

19:59

@Mitch Reza Shah was the first Pahlavi monarch and his son, MohammadReza, was the second and last one.

Mitch

or something like that

@Færd and 'Mohammad Reza' is how the refer to the last Shah (which might be different than his name strangely enough)

Færd

Yes. It's his name, not different.

@Mitch I wouldn't get hurt by that comment.

Mitch

@Færd Oh. I meant it to sting

Færd

But I don't know the context.

Mitch

The comments on this main question, by the comment voting, at least one other person agrees with this other person.

RegDwigнt

20:28

@Robusto there's a YouTube video of someone doing various sight-reading challenges on the violin, like playing everything with one finger, or only on one string, or two octaves higher, or at double tempo. And there's a comment on that video by none other than myself that goes something like "lol @ double tempo, how's that even a challenge, every student ever plays everything way too fast, you can miss half the notes and not even play the other half, and your average audience won't even notice".

So it's not like I don't catch your drift, yo.

However, the elephant in the room is that it really depends on the instrument.

On the violin or a flute, playing slowly is hard, and holding a tone is a nightmare. On the piano, it's fucking trivial is what it is.

And me and Cerberus were talking piano there.

Feeds

1

Q: Collective noun for jokes, riddles, poems, quotes, idioms, proverbs, etc

I am looking for a collective noun that would include short bits of text such as jokes, riddles, poems, quotes, idioms, proverbs and so on.

single-word-requests collective-nouns

RegDwigнt

@Feeds "Everything".

SmokeDetector

20:51

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, offensive title detected: Why is "nigger" considered extremely offensive while "nigga" is not that much? by vmiol on english.SE

RegDwigнt

This is a fun day already.

Feeds

0

Q: Term query for perception disconnection

Is there a word in English (perhaps but not necessarily in medical jargon) to describe the disconnection between two related bodily perceptions, e.g.: to feel tired, but not sleepy to be hungry, but to have no appetite Many thanks