English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

00:18

@Mitch yeah

Ramadan is sometimes in winter, sometimes in summer

And sometimes in the other two, unimportant seasons

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

00:29

@Mitch our lunar event is to stop eating, yours is about overeating rabbits that have turned into chocolate stone

I think we win

Mitch

02:50

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it's worse than that. We have to eat chocolate-dipped eggs that the rabbits layed.

Robusto

@tchrist orders a bottle of wine:

SmokeDetector

03:55

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, +4 more: platinumcleanserinfo.com/intelliboost-iq/ by harkwond on english.SE

SmokeDetector

04:21

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, +4 more: brainfireadvice.com/intelliboost-iq/ by blackboch on english.SE

CowperKettle

05:02

Can I write "Wings have you such I would rather", instead of "that I would rather"?

I came across a Ukrainian song and discovered that it was based on a poem by Taras Shevchenko

Бандуристе орле сизий (Ukrainian folk song)

►

Taras Shevchenko

Taras Hryhorovych Shevchenko (March 9 [O.S. February 25] 1814 – March 10 [O.S. February 26] 1861) was a Ukrainian poet, writer, artist, public and political figure, as well as folklorist and ethnographer. His literary heritage is regarded to be the foundation of modern Ukrainian literature and, to a large extent, the modern Ukrainian language. Shevchenko is also known for many masterpieces as a painter and an illustrator. He was a member of the Sts Cyril and Methodius Brotherhood and an academician of the Imperial Academy of Arts. In 1847 Shevchenko was politically convicted for writing in the...

And I tried to translate it

Feeds

05:15

0

Q: Word for someone who wants to use something excessively right after learning it?

For example, he/she has recently learned colons in English class, and he/she proceeds to use colons in every paragraph of an essay.

single-word-requests

SmokeDetector

06:35

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, +4 more: Pryazine.> www.supplementstruera.com/pryazine/ by uinght on english.SE

Feeds

07:52

0

Q: Returning? Returns?

Is it okay to say "returnings", as in multiple times going back? For example "Her returnings to the village made everyone suspicious." I need the word to be plural, any suggestions?

single-word-requests

Færd

08:28

@Robusto Precision in design and language could actually be an effective touchstone of quality sometimes.

@FaheemMitha OK I'll be on the lookout for an American-looking Russian-sounding-named woman. :)

Feeds

09:07

0

Q: Should I write The or not?

In the sentence : Here is a list of all modified files. Should I write "the" before modified or not ? I know that plurial nouns often lose the article but I'm not sure in this sentence.

single-word-requests grammar word-choice articles writing

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +2 more: maleintalk.com/viril-tech/ by user303036 on english.SE

Educ

10:08

@Mitch Yes It Does, I just took the spring exams last week even though there is Ramadan. Our school schedule follow The European (Gregorian) calendar.

Feeds

10:53

0

Q: Is there a word for often re-read book?

The book that a person might keep on their table, because they read it so often. In Russian, there is an idiom with this meaning—"настольная книга", which literally means "an on-table book".

single-word-requests

Feeds

13:37

0

Q: One who teaches reading comprehension is called what?

I googled everywhere but could not find even a single word for those who teach reading comprehension. However, I have just one guess anent this: Reading Comprehension Teacher. So what is the single word for those who teach reading comprehension?

single-word-requests

Feeds

14:41

1

Q: An adjective describing the ability to be hidden

I am currently trying to find a single word which describes the ability of an object to be hidden. A label that may be hidden --> a hideable / hidable / hidible label Is there any word like that in the English language? I found stashable, but it does not meet the requirement of consistency...

single-word-requests expressions neologisms

Feeds

16:36

0

Q: What's a large production film called?

Specifically, I mean a big budget film that casts famous actors and has a ton of staff and production crew. It should not matter whether the film is still in production or is already released. A word that comes to mind is 'Blockbuster', but this word is only used for films that are a huge commer...

single-word-requests

Færd

17:54

This month in our book club we're reading Frantz Fanon's Black Skin, White Masks. The English translation was done in the 60s, and its florid style and use of psychological idiom is making some of the members (native speakers of English or not) uncomfortable.

But the most serious beef came from this guy who objected to the repeated use of the word Negro in the text. He did then take action and grawlixed all the instances of the word and uploaded a sanitized version to our Telegram group for other members to enjoy.

I'm just baffled.

Mitch

18:09

@Færd No kidding. 'Negro' is not considered a taboo word. And anyway, bowdlerizing literature is so parochial. If it bothers them so much, why don't they just watch a football match.

haha.

because sports is for stupid people

also, I had to look up grawlix. I thought you were replacing a word with a euphemism for swearing but really you were using a word for replacing a word with a euphemism for swearing.

Færd

@Mitch Stupid people find sport in many things.

@Mitch Yeah I just learned the word.

Mitch

@Færd and in particular sporting a jacket

namely a sports jacket

which no one ever wears anymore

kids these days just have no style

Færd

Shed the jacket or you'll shed sweat out of your ass.

Mitch

ew

that does not sound comfortable

Færd

That is to say, kids these days wised up on this one.

Mitch

18:15

I think I'll take off the jacket

Færd

Why, do you play sports?

Mitch

The important part to this conversation is that... hey, you're in a book club! Do you like that? I feel like it is making you do a book report once a month on a book that someone else likes

Færd

Well, I like it alright. We don't just pick any book to read.

Mitch

@Færd What? No! I just don't want sweat coming out of my ass.

Færd

But I would like it more if didn't have to fight over petty impertinent stuff.

I mean we should be discussing racism with this guy who doesn't understand he shouldn't mutilate a historical text because he finds some of the words offensive.

Mitch

18:18

@Færd The Black Skin, White Masks sounds pretty deep. Are you reading it in French or in the English translation?

Færd

The English translation is hard enough. It's a psychoanalytical approach to the Black problem.

So, the English.

Mitch

@Færd Right. Point out the offensiveness he feels it but then move on.

Is the next book going to be 'Orientalism'? 'The Second Sex'? 'S/Z'?

Færd

@Mitch Bur why are you wearing one then?

4 mins ago, by Mitch

I think I'll take off the jacket

Mitch

Critique of Pure Reason?

Finnegan's Wake?

@Færd I'm not. Because:

7 mins ago, by Mitch

which no one ever wears anymore

Færd

I heard someone say Orientalism.

Mitch

18:21

Decrypting Linear B?

Færd

The other ones I haven't read, alas.

Mitch

Not a book 'Decrypting Linear B' but literally you're decrypting Linear B for your club

Færd

linear B?

Mitch

@Færd I picked them all as either controversial minority points of view or really difficult texts to understand.

Linear B is a script from ancient Greece, before ancient greek, that no one has yet been able to decipher

Færd

Oh.

I like the geenral atmosphere and the spirit of our club, but I guess I count as a moderate there.

Mitch

18:24

Oh.. the one point of intersection was 'S/Z' by Roland Barthes which is modern literary analysis.or is it post-modern?

Færd

I frequently find myself telling people what they don't want to hear. People in general, from any persuasions.

Mitch

We're so far past post-modern that we're first past the post.

@Færd I didn't want to hear that.

You should have expected me to respond that way.

Færd

@Mitch I've gotten you riled up before, haven't I?

:)

Mitch

@Færd I love mankind. It's people I can't stand

Færd

How about womankind?

Mitch

18:31

@Færd It's a quote from Peanuts. The kind that @MetaEd can't stand

which is a mangling of a quote from ... Hobbes?

Færd

Nice.

Mitch

Swift! (found it)

Færd

I like entertaining the idea of humanity, rather than engage in actual social intercourse with them.

To do a philosopgical reading.

Mitch

> "I have ever hated all nations, professions, and communities, and all my love is toward individuals: for instance, I hate the tribe of lawyers, but I love Counsellor Such-a-one, and Judge Such-a-one: ... But principally I hate and detest that animal called man, although I heartily love John, Peter, Thomas, and so forth. This is the system upon which I have governed myself many years, but do not tell..."

Færd

Just the way porn has taken the place of sexual intercourse for so many buggers.

@Mitch OK that's different than my interpretation.

Mitch

18:39

He does not go the route of all humanity leaving out a significant proportion.

The famous philosopher Lou Bega addresses that lack:

Færd

@Mitch What's that little boy's name?

Mitch

> I like Angela, Pamela, Sandra and Rita
And as I continue you know they are getting sweeter
So what can I do I really beg you my Lord
To me is flirting it's just like sport, anything fly
It's all good let me dump it please set in the trumpet
A little bit of Monica in my life, a little bit of Erica by my side
A little bit of Rita is all I need, a little bit of Tina is what I see
A little bit of Sandra in the sun, a little bit of Mary all night long
A little bit of Jessica here I am, a little bit of you makes me your man

@Færd It's funny because Linus is spouting the exact opposite of Swift

Færd

@Mitch This one doesn't specify a hatred or any objects thereof.

Faheem Mitha

@Færd Don't worry about it. It's likely I got all the details wrong.

Mitch

@Færd Linus is the boy's name. He is Charlie Brown's best friend. He's kind of a thinker. But he also has social anxiety issues allayed by carrying around a cloth talisman to ward off evil.

His security blanket

@Færd I think the point is that Lou Bega loves all women, both the general idea and each and every individual one.

Færd

18:43

I like Linus's version.

Mitch

It's funnier

But for the record, and to tie it back in to your book club, there's a old quip about racism in the US.

Færd

Racism hasn't gotten old yet.

Mitch

Everybody is racist but it comes out differently. Southerners are supposed to be racist in that they don't like blacks as a whole. But individual people who are black, they are just fine with. With Northerners, they claim they love blacks as a group, but don't like them individually.

Færd

So the Linus-Swift duality.

Mitch

Exactamundo

It's not exactly accurate. It's supposed to be clever and insightful, but just squint. Where were the slaves? In the south. The north may have its share of racism and be hypocrites but at least they're saying racism is bad. A first small step.

I think Linus was talking about his sister. It's complicated.

Færd

18:50

I guess it wasn't anti-racist sentiment that rallied the North against the South.

They felt threatened by the successful slave-driven economy of the South.

Of course I'm not living there, so I can't speak for Northerners and their mentalities regarding people of color, but historically speaking, even Abraham Lincoln didn't sound so anti-racism.

Mitch

19:09

@Færd Abolitionism (stopping slavery is roughly anti-racism) was a big thing in the North. They had already abolished slavery in the north. A lot of northerners wanted to stop it in the south. But it was only a popular movement not a government one. The North (the US Federal government) didn't start attacking the South in order to stop slavery, they did it to stop South Carolina from leaving the US (seceding).

The South on the other hand, totally left the US in order to keep slaves.

So in the end, the truism, or the oversimplified view that 'The US civil war was caused by slavery' is actually in the end exactly what it was (not sovereignty or 'states-rights'). The nuances are all in why any particular state or person was fighting it.

@Færd The South did not threaten the economy of the North. The North was way more prosperous than the South. The north was having an Industrial revolution, but the south was stuck in old agrarian patterns. Getting rid of plantations and slaves would be difficult. Also, I've heard that northern economic policies, whether intentional or not, encouraged the maintenance of the plantation system.

@Færd Yes, he wasn't necessarily not bigoted, and I've heard some say that the Emancipation Proclamation (which freed all the southern slaves) was simply used as a political or strategic act, to help end the war earlier.

For my next essay on history, I'll discuss the formation of the United Federation of Planets. The Vulcans didn't want the Terrans (that's us) to join up because we were too backwards. It's more complicated than that but you get the idea

RegDwigнt

19:54

I wrote a song about that once.

Slave - Elton John (Honky Chateau 7 of 10)

►

MetaEd

@Mitch You're telling me Swift hates man but loves John, Thomas, and Peter? Plainly he's got sexual orientation confusion.

Faheem Mitha

20:26

Hi @Færd.

I see we're having varied topics of conversation as usual.

@Færd It was a mix of reasons. Partly it was economic. Some people did object to racism. It was a clash between two different ideologies.

Though that's just my impression, of course. I've not studied the period.

Mitch

21:01

@MetaEd and Lou Bega was Polly amorous

May 30 at 20:43, by Mitch

RegDwigнt

22:14

Lou Bega is a German from Munich.
He was just listing his favorite beer brands.
His Englisch ist not so gut, some of it got lost in translation.

Robusto

22:50

@RegDwigнt Lou Bega is an anagram of O U Bagel.

BTW, how's da fiddling? Ready to audition for Konzertmeister of the Berlin Philharmonic yet?

@MetaEd I'm guessing that's mostly a whoosh in this room. Some might get Peter, but John Thomas is mainly a Briticism.

Færd

@Mitch Racism is about your intention. Abolition is legal action. So, two separate domains. There could be correlations of course, but not necessarily.

I'm sure there were some people in the North who were pained to see people in bondage, and this was their main motivation to push for abolition and go to war etc, but I seriously doubt that that was the rule in the North, and I think the main incentive was economic.

@Mitch Of course the capitalist North were way ahead of the South in economic terms, but at the same time their fortunes depended heavily on the cotton from the South, and if the South were to go through industrialization and keep the enslaved workforce, it would've dealt a massive blow to the North, because they couldn't have competed with it. That's what I meant by "threatened".

Anyway, I'm not that well-versed in the American Civil War and its background, but I suspect the anti-racism emancipatory stuff were incidental to the main economic framework for the whole thing.

@FaheemMitha Neither did I, not extensively. I'm sure it was a complicated mess, as everything is.

@FaheemMitha Hi!

Faheem Mitha

23:06

@Færd "Complicated mess" sums up the world pretty well. They ought to give new borns the memo. Welcome to the Complicated Mess, baby. You're going to love it here.

Færd

Some hot mess.

Faheem Mitha

I'd go with Complicated Mess, myself.

Færd

I laughed my ass off with your "less than perfect world" eaarlier tho.

That's classier.

Faheem Mitha

@Færd That's not an unusual phrase.

"Complicated Mess" is accurate, though.

They really should have it on school curriculums.

Færd

Okay. You're welcome.

Faheem Mitha

23:10

Dickens actually used similar phrasing on occasion. I believe he preferred the term "muddle". Though 19th Century Industrial England was probably pretty bad, so he had reason.

Feeds

0

Q: my father or Father?

In the following sentence, which one is more common? I asked my mother, "Where is my father?" Or I asked my mother, "Where is Father?"

single-word-requests

Cerberus

@Færd On the other hand, people can be highly motivated by ideology.

Cf. the Wars of Religion in Europe, the Islamic conquest of large parts of the world, the Communist conquest of Russia, various Nazi policies that were even detrimental to the economy and long-term future of Germany, the nationalist rivalry between India and Pakistan, etc.

Of course each of those is different, but it is quite possible that ideological reasons were an important factor.

It's almost always a combination of economic and ideological reasons.

It's hard to determine the relative importance of either factor.

@Mitch I have read Linear B at university: it has been deciphered.

It was used to write early Greek (Mycenaean).

Linear A remains undeciphered. It may have been used to write in a Minoan language, but I believe we know little about Minoan languages.

@Færd Indeed not; but increased religiosity usually means more conservatism. Mild, less strict forms of religion can be quite liberal; but I would aequate 'stricter' to 'more religious'.

@Mitch Yes, rural areas tend to be more conservative everywhere, whence my as it is the case in most countrysides.

@Mitch Well, initially, they were actively sought by the Dutch, and they looked in certain regions (I don't know how they did it exactly). They did not actively try to recruit people from e.g. Casablanca: their efforts focused on the Rif. Then the group that emigrated from there become the core of the later community: once active recruiting had ended, new immigrants came because they had family ties to the core community of immigrants that were already here. It's wasn't random people.

@Mitch We're all influenced by our backgrounds in some ways, but some more than others. Maybe you're influenced much less than most people.

@Mitch That is not always the case—that is, it depends also on the culture of the receiving country, and on one's interpretation.

In Holland, for example, immigrants were not pushed to assimilate at all: they were free and even encouraged to mostly keep with their native culture and hang out with people from the same background.

In other countries, there was more pressure to assimilate to the recipient culture a. s. a. p. (look, @Tonepoet).

But I agree with you that the first generation is generally more 'docile'.

Færd

23:52

@Cerberus That's right.

But in each of your examples, you could look into what the leading characters in those stories said, and guess at the prevalent spirit of the public at the time.

Now, if we assume Abe Lincoln ideologically represented the North on average, then it'd kinda corroborate my account.

The Union and the Confederacy weren't at such an ideological remove from each other as to want to go to war on it.

Cerberus

I must admit that American history was not a major topic in my programme (BA in history). But I think it would be very difficult to determine how important the factor of ideology was.

I'm not saying you're wrong; just expressing scepsis.

But think of it this way: the moral argument was brought in often and by important people as well, was it not?

If it hadn't been an important argument to many among the public, they would not have used it that prominently.

Færd

Well, everyone tries to morally justify their side, but I suppose.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…