English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

13:13

@Færd Well, I'd rather say that they're making the problem worse by doing things that serve no useful purpose.

Don't forget, ours Muslims are nothing like the people you would know.

They are the poorest, most conservative, largely illiterate underclasses swooped away from remote mountain areas in Morocco and Turkey.

Then placed in an overwhelmingly different, urban, liberal society.

It was bound to be very difficult for them.

Mitch

13:31

@Cerberus Really? I would expect some education, world knowledge, and tolerance of others to be able to even consider 'getting out'.

Feeds

0

Q: Use of the word "Compatibility"

I'm writing parameters for a software report. I need a word that means "compatible" but compatible to many different applications. Something like "multi-compatible."

Cerberus

13:46

@Mitch Well, unemployment was rampant in Morocco.

Only young men did it.

From the poorest regions, where they did not perceive to have a 'future'.

They were eager for work, and at first the Dutch government offered them jobs, through agents from the Moroccan government, I think. When that ended, many more others came based on stories they heard from emigrants.

I believe the rural areas in the Atlas mountains were almost universally conservative, as it is the case in most countrysides. And of course Morocco as a whole was and is far more conservative than Holland.

The Atlas may or may not be somewhat less conservative now, but still poor.

But the people who emigrated stuck tightly to their culture, largely remaining very conservative compared to the average Moroccan.

In the Atlas, there is some cultural influence from Casablanca and Marrakesh. Here, they remained fairly isolated.

Later, they brought their families with them, or new brides from the Atlas.

This all happened through local/family conexions: they wanted people from the same background.

Which I think is a common pattern all over the world.

Immigrants from war-torn countries, however, are usually more mixed.

And refugees from dictatorial revolutions are probably even more educated on average.

Cerberus

14:05

An individual person's culture, and hence conservatism, is primarily determined by his family, generally less so by his individual character. Later it is also influenced by the circles he moves in as an adult; broader society can also have an influence, and it does, but often not overwhelmingly so.

There are of course many individual exceptions.

Feeds

1

Q: Is there a word for the victim of a broken promise

Related question: Is there a word for a "promise breaker"? I want to refer to the victim of a broken promise. A quick search online led me to believe that promisee is an acceptable word but it sounds a bit childish to me.

single-word-requests

Færd

14:23

@Cerberus I'd guess they're mainly focused on not letting in any more immigrants?

Cerberus

@Færd Yes, and on harping on those that have already immigrated here.

Færd

@Cerberus Indeed a very tricky situation to handle. Do you think they'll find their place in your society after a generation?

@Cerberus The latter is plainly stupid.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Gigili puns, puns everywhere

Cerberus

@Færd Eventually, less. But they're getting more conservative now, especially the younger generations.

Færd

(The harp is a very pleasant-sounding instrument BTW.)

Cerberus

14:26

Thanks to a combination of right-wing criticism and Saudi imams/mosques.

Færd

Yeah I've heard about those.

Cerberus

@Færd Yes, it's highly counter-productive.

@Færd Stick and carrot to drive people to orthodoxy.

Færd

Of course the Saudis benefit a lot from right-wing European policy makers.

Feeds

1

Q: What’s a possible one-word replacement for “applicable in every situation”?

I just want to ask what word can be put in replacement to the bolded phrase in: “This formula is not applicable in every situation and may vary.”

single-word-requests

Færd

In the short run, that is.

Cerberus

14:28

@Færd But economically and with respect to education and social status, they are advancing at a steady pace.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Cerberus I'm probably one of those exceptions

Cerberus

@Færd Yes. Every politician loves a good enemy.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Although my family isn't that right

Cerberus

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I believe it!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Sometimes they're wrong

Cerberus

14:29

How unfortunate.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

You two go on, I was enjoying the show

Cerberus

Oh, was it a show?

You're welcome to put up your own act.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'm having lunch

Cerberus

Or dance along.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Dancing isn't good after eating

Færd

14:31

@Cerberus I'd've thought it suited minorities to adopt leftist views on politics.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

And I probably can't dance

Cerberus

Neither can I.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Have any of you watched "The Big Short"?

Cerberus

@Færd It's super complicated.

They used to all vote left because of social security, welfare.

Færd

@Cerberus I could imagine.

Cerberus

14:32

But culturally, they are on the far right.

So it's difficult for them.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Cerberus understandable. Dancing techniques aren't suited for underworld protectors

Cerberus

They're shifting to a new Muslim party now.

Which is fairly hysterical.

This party calls leftist politicians of Turkish descent traitors if they vote for anything against Erdogan, for example.

Færd

@Cerberus But minorities who have urgent economic demands tend to keep their cultural conservatism to themselves for a while.

Cerberus

That is possibly what happened.

Færd

And not accentuate to frighten people.

Cerberus

14:34

Also because liberalism was the status quo in the place they moved to: one generally doesn't seek to change that soon.

Færd

And in the long run that translates into actual understanding and toleration.

Cerberus

It may.

That was what people expected to happen.

And it happens for some groups.

Færd

It's too soon to expect results.

Cerberus

A new report was published even this week, about how Dutch Muslims are generally getting more religious.

Have been getting more religious over the past decade or so.

But conservatism is no monolith: I'm sure many people are getting more conservative in some ways, but less so in others.

Among orthodox Christians, some perceive a trend of increasing conservatism among young people as well.

Færd

That'a a bit vague.

Cerberus

14:38

What is?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@MetaEd right! Argh

Færd

Are they getting more culturally religious, or more politically conservative/hostile?

Cerberus

Which people?

Christians or Muslims?

Færd

Dutch Muslims.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

That was math getting into me yesterday. I kept calculating stuff like 12 × 4 = 36

Færd

14:39

I thought you were referring to a study about Dutch Muslims.

Cerberus

And how can one distinguish between religious and conservative?

@Færd I was.

The study was about religiosity.

Færd

It depends on your take on religiosity: whether it's about cultural identity that you could very well engage in a progressive political dialogue.

Or whether your religion comprises a set of fundamental ideas that excludes everyone else from having basic human rights.

Or whether it's a blend, which it usually is.

So as a sociocultural identity, religion doesn't directly translate into conservatism.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ That's some heavy M.A.Th. you're doing there.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Færd the stupid numerals all look alike

Færd

So do letters.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Mostly numbers

Færd

14:47

Substitute them with letters then.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Why don't we refer to 12 as c again?

Færd

I always did my calculations with parameters expressed in letters and put in the numerical values in the final result.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

You mean like variables?

Færd

Letters could be variables too, yes.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

That's not always possible

Færd

14:51

But constants could be written in the form of letters as well.

As you know.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I like apple pi

Færd

I hate apple 3.14159265359

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Whoa that's mathist

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm pretty sure that the rural areas of Holland are relatively more conservative, at least within Holland.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Next thing you know, numbers will protest to close this chat down

Mitch

14:53

@Cerberus Our recent friend @Educ would have lots of local opinion and knowledge about this.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch I like Holland better than Neverlands

Mitch

@Cerberus Sure. It's just your sentence made it sound like the Morroccan immigrants in Holland were somehow not self-selected and were intentionally chosen from rural areas that were not educated/tolerant.

I think the word was 'plucked' that led me that way

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I like Holland butter than Holland cheese

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh hi Mitch

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh my god... it's all deterministic, there's no free will. The fact that I believe in free will was a determined choice (and for those scientists who only believe in determinism, they came to that conclusion by their own free will)

Cerberus

Sorry, AFK for a bit.

Mitch

15:02

@Færd The usual pattern is that the first generation (those who emigrate) have difficulty assimilating because of language/social change, but their kids (if brought up in the host country) don't have language problems (but are conflicted having one foot in both cultures); the grand kids are usually totally assimilated (often without knowing the home language) even if other school kids may pick on them for a funny last name.

Relatedly and contrarily, the first generation tends to be docile, and the second generation tends to be the source of disaffection (crime, terrorism).

Færd

@Mitch That's about right.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

The fourth comes up with an idea that completely solves the energy problem

Færd

@Mitch "The source of" is too strong. How many of them resort to that?

Mitch

@Færd It is usually in the best interest of minorities to support leftist policies (those policies are mostly in the minorities favor), but that doesn't mean that people are rational.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch there's a cream for rational people

Also avoid allergenes

Mitch

15:08

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ flagged by 2.71828182845904523

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch he's pure gold

Færd

@Mitch You're close, but you're always wrong. Just say her name.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It's a she.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Can't take the brutalities of the cube world

@Færd I couldn't tell the gender from this far

Færd

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ She was my high school darling and I wasn't gay at that time.

Mitch

Oh yeah. I deleted my extended explanation that though the 2nd gen is a common source, it is not primarily disaffected. i.e. the very few disaffected are more likely to come from 2nd than 1st gen

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:11

@Færd what did you do that she broke up with you? Graduate?

Educ

@Mitch Hi everyone, Hope you doing well. wait to read what are you talking about :)

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ there's a ration of lotion for the locus of pruritis

@Færd Uh no, it's not she it's 'e

!//rimshot

Færd

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Well, she was too irrational for me.

@Mitch +1

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

One more pun and I'm gonna react violently with oxygen

Mitch

@Educ There's a lot to read. We'll continue with other things while you catch up. It's just Faerd's and Cerb's conversation this morning about Morroccan immigrants in Holland, where they come from, what they're like, etc.

Actually you may have no idea since they're the ones who left.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:15

@Mitch Fard talked like just seconds ago

Educ

@Mitch Ah I see

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Don't be so reductionist

Educ

but I will tell you something most of Morrocan Immigrants in Holland are from north morocco

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch it's in my nature, can't help it

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Argh no the immigrants (or emigrants depending on where you stand)

Færd

15:16

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ burrrrrn

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Emmigrants

Mitch

@Færd nice

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Attendees of the Emmy awards

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Hemigrants

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch burning violates Be Nice

Mitch

15:17

one foot in, the other out

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch I should try that in a plane

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ but not Be Best

(repeating that enough times it almost sounds right)

Like the execrable 'my bad'

it's my bad that I be best

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

My bad

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ no no no, the immigrants are the ones who left.

Educ

Going somewhere? Emigrate means to leave one's country to live in another. Immigrate is to come into another country to live permanently. Migrate is to move, like birds in the winter.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:20

@Mitch Fard is an immigrant?

@Mitch My bad

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ argh

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ when you quote from some website, you should add a > before what you quote so it doesn't get confusing

Mitch

@Educ right. it's like come and go, bring and take, borrow and lend

there are others I'm sure

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch burrrrn

@Mitch oxidize and reduce

Mitch

emigrate is from where you leave, migrate is on the way, immigrate is when you arrive

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:23

Eat and poop

Educ

Yes I see Thank you

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Thanks for the reminder. Hold on...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

My examples were the most educational

@Mitch are you doing the former, or the latter?

Educ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ wait I 'll try it >Going somewhere? Emigrate means to leave one's country to live in another. Immigrate is to come into another country to live permanently. Migrate is to move, like birds in the winter.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Don't. Migrate. Crap.

Mitch

15:25

@Educ the '>' probably has to be in front of the other text

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ you got it right but the > should be in the beginning of the message for it to work

Mitch

> like this

Educ

> Going somewhere? Emigrate means to leave one's country to live in another. Immigrate is to come into another country to live permanently. Migrate is to move, like birds in the winter.

Mitch

>and maybe a space

between '>' and the text

there we go

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ Bingo!

Educ

15:26

I fix it thanks

Mitch

wait... is that really a quote from somewhere?

Anyway, I'm almost done.

Educ

@Mitch vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/…

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

> Maybe. Maybe not.

Mitch

Thanks to phone technology, I'm able to chat while..taking care of things.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch the former, or the latter?

Mitch

15:27

Hold on... one more moment...

Educ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Please How Can I bold my text as you did ?

Mitch

@Educ there's a FAQ for this somewhere but

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ **like this**

Mitch

One '_' gets you italics, two gets you bold, three gets you bold italic and four is just pretentious

Educ

@Mitch I forgot to read FAQ Thank you

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:28

And if you use one asterisk, it becomes italic

Educ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Thank you

Mitch

there's something for strikethrough that I keep forgetting and can't find anywhere

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ don't worry, no one reads FAQ

Mitch

is it ~~this~~?

Educ

Most people don't read FAQ and the manual for new Things Like TV, Computer and stuff like that

Mitch

15:29

aha ! it is three dashes!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch yes

Educ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Yes That's what I noticed

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch have you seen The Big Short?

Mitch

@Educ It's how the 'Kids These Days' take over from the next generation. The old people need the manual but it doesn't exist because the kids just told each other and not the parents.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Have you asked that question already?

Educ

@Mitch yes Is there any bug with this chat I notice big space

Mitch

15:31

Yes. Yes you have.

59 mins ago, by M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Have any of you watched "The Big Short"?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Educ there should be an arrow

Mitch

@Educ what part of the screen do you see this space?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch so have you?

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Oh. I'm more interested in the meta-situation.

But yes. I've seen it.

Educ

I have to screen it for you when I will exprience it next time I use laptop with google chrome

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:33

Finally!

Mitch

It's depressing because nothing was fixed.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I forgot what was important about watching The Big Short

Mitch

The economic effects were treated (at least in the US and Northern Europe) by great infusion of cash by the government, but laws fixing it were not passed (or if they were they've been recently ... what is the word .... unpassed?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch think about it from Gosling's perspective

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ The funny hair styles?

Have you seen Argo?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I've forgotten the plot entirely.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:35

@Mitch I probably have, but I don't remember much

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I ask only because it's the movie about getting a few Americans out of Iran during the hostage crisis.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

IIRC it made us look like barbarians

Mitch

And the important thing about that movie was...

Educ

please, I have a question about Grammarly? Is it good to buy account there? Is it a scam?

Mitch

the moustaches

Feeds

15:37

0

Q: Throwing bits of food out of the mouth

Is there a simple verb to describe the act of accidentally (or not) throwing out of the mouth food bits, like it happens when someone is eating and talking at the same time? For instance, if you were to complete the following phrase, what would you insert? He _______ (on) my plate (whilst ta...

single-word-requests

Mitch

all the guys had these horrible looking moustaches.

late 70's

worst moustaches ever

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it was a drama, so there are good guys and bad guys and the bad guys have to be demonized.

really the only 'bad' guy was the security officer at the airport

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch Shrug I don't remember much

It was Eastwood's, right?

The guy's sometimes unnecessarily patriotic

IIRC the real American Sniper actually enjoyed killing children

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ there was a plane and other stuff. oh yeah, one of the local Iranians who worked at the Canadian embassy had to leave the country. That was about three seconds of the movie

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I think it was that other guy... not Matt Damon but his friend

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ ugh... I don't want to see that.

killing adults isn't some great thing either

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Snack. All done.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch thank God

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ and another ping for good measure

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:42

If you posted crap it'd get closed

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'll give the play by play of it's progress from start to finish.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch 5 is my number

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I think you've just done so.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch hey I didn't read FAQ

@Mitch no I'm not a doctor yet

Færd

> “Can you ensure anything? You can’t ensure anything.”

A nice sum-up of the summit.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:44

Ha, I forgot to check it out

It's funny lots of scholars sat and watched Trump and Kim talk

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ After I'm done with my description, you'll be able to do GI surgery with a pen knife.

and lots of hydrogen peroxide. there's gonna be a lot of blood you'll have to clean up

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Færd Reuters seems to agree

reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa/…

Educ

Mitch

@Educ Interesting. I've never seen that. Chat messages always align to right above the typing window at bottom for me.

Educ

@Mitch see above the big space

Mitch

15:56

Did this only just start happening to you?

Educ

@Mitch the space yes

Mitch

It's not terrible (I don't think)

you can still read what people are saying

can you scroll up?

to see more of the previous conversation?

Educ

now its fix it

Mitch

I'm no web browser coding expert, so it's hard for me to give an idea what actually is wrong or how to fix it.

Educ

Mitch

15:58

I mean fix it so it doesn't happen. not just get rid of it as a user when it happens

Educ

now I just get rid of it I'm not sure if it's fix it or not

Mitch

Is that you in your avatar?

Educ

no it's from breaking bad walter

Mitch

That's definitely @Gigili in her avatar

Educ

hahaha

Mitch

15:59

@Educ Oh! are you into chemistry like @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ?

Educ

no I'm into mathematics I just love the scence when his starting typing in blackboard

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

No. No one is into chemistry. Only I'm into chemistry

Mine. MINE

Educ

the bug still happens to me

Mitch

@Educ That first episode was wild. And then it just kept getting wilder.

Educ

yes I watched in 2013

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

16:01

@Mitch by episode 10, it got feral

Mitch

@Educ hm... maybe needs an update?

Educ

and I still watch it now

@Mitch yes

Mitch

@Educ It's pretty good

#notallamericans

in that not all americans would open up a meth shop if they got cancer

it's a lot of work

also not all americans like that show.

Educ

hahahaha Yes I know

Mitch

I'm pretty sure there is a strict dividing line between those who like Breaking Bad and those who like Mamma Mia

It's just a theory I have

Educ

16:04

I m fascinating with how going to survive among all these problems that he will face: cancer _ wife cheating _ handicap son _ gangster ect

Mitch

For the record, Giancarlo Esposito's accent in Spanish is the worst.

@Educ Spoiler alert: The son character does just fine. That is all I'll say

Educ

Nope I watched a long time ago I just rewatch it because I'm fasting and I have vacation that's why

:)

don't worry there is no spoiler for me :)

Mitch

Did you know that the ... I forgot his name... the bald guy, the brother-in-law that works for the FBI, he was brought in as comic relief. In the first episode he actually is a bit over the top. But they immediately started having his character be more realistic.

Educ

yes wait I will give you his name he said somethimes dirty words to son 's walter

Dean Norris as Hank Schrader ( a DEA agent ) the one who discover Walter when he gets into his toilet and read the book

I watched also better call saul

@Mitch What is the name of that show I would like to watch it

Breaking Bad - Best of Hank Schrader

►

I would like to see his real character via that comedy show that you mentioned above

I have to leave now to buy some vegetable to prepare Iftar for my Ramadan :) there are few hours still to Iftar

Mitch

16:24

@Educ only a couple more days

Educ

17:35

@Mitch yes, we will celebrate Eid Al Fitr on Friday or Saturday If allah wills.

> Eid-al-Fitr (Eid al-Fitr, Eid ul-Fitr, Id-Ul-Fitr, Eid) is the first day of the Islamic month of Shawwal. It marks the end of Ramadan, which is a month of fasting and prayer. Many Muslims attend communal prayers, listen to a khutba (sermon) and give zakat al-fitr (charity in the form of food) during Eid al-Fitr.

@Izanawistaria yes the Internet data because Here In Morocco, most of us use so-called 4G+ which is LTE In USA. so we buy Internet as Internet data volume

10 Dh Morroco = 1 dollars = 1 gigabyte last only for three days

20 Dh Morroco = 2 dollars = 2 gigabytes last only for Four days

50 Dh Morroco = 5 dollars = 5 gigabytes last only for Months

Færd

17:56

Guess the name.

Educ

By the way it's too expensive since Minimum wage here In Morocco Is about 200 Dollars

@Færd JUNGLE BOOK (MOWGLI)

Listen to the Arabic version

ماوكلي فتى الأدغال - أغنية البداية

►

Mitch

18:59

@Educ Does Ramadan interfere with regular year schedules, like spring exams?

Or rather does the school schedule follow the Islamic lunar calendar (354 days a year) or the European (Gregorian) calendar (365 days a year)?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch here in Iran we're so cool we have our own calendar

If the spring exams can be adjusted, they usually are. But, for example, there was no way to adjust for this year's

Mitch

20:33

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ ...which doesn't have Ramadan in it, so when you do Ramadan it's not at all coordinated, it happens when it happens and you have to deal with it (if everything else is based in the solar Persian calendar.

Mitch

20:55

It's a little like Easter (very little) in the Gregorian calendar. It bounces around a lot because it is based on a lunar calculation (first sunday after a full moon before (or is it after) the spring equinox...or something.

Faheem Mitha

21:14

@Færd No, not that one.

@Færd True. But I don't hold reporters/journalists to such high standards, in this less than perfect world. As long as it's intelligible and has something to say, I'm good.

@Færd The one I'm talking about was rather all-American in her appearance and speaking style. She had a Russian type name, I think. But otherwise you wouldn't have particularly thought her Russian. I could probably dig up the name if I tried. And I might recognize it.

Transcript for

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