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01:00 - 12:0013:00 - 22:00

01:07
@FaheemMitha This reminded me of your expressing doubts about the impartiality of Wikipedia:
BTW, she abruptly ended her show on RT and left over the Russia-Crimea conflicts of 2014, I guess, and is doing her own independent journalism, which I'm about to follow for a while and see how she's doing now.
It also deserves mention that the title of the video is a bit misleading.
If you're uninterested that's fine. It just reminded me of your reservations about Wikipedia.
01:24
(Hmm I made a mistake: she didn't shut down her RT show after condemning "Russia's military occupation of Crimea", but rather continued it for quite a while.)
@Færd Gosh, a journalist probably controlled by the Russian government is complaining about an independent encylopaedia and how the consensus of contributors didn't find her noteworthy enough.
She probably hasn't bothered trying to learn how Wikipaedia works.
It seems likely that an admin intervened in an edit war, or that he acted on the result of a poll page.
At any rate, she hasn't a clue and doesn't seem interested.
RT has no editorial freedom. It is paid for and directly controlled by the Russian government.
One might as well watch a broadcast by Trump's press lady.
@Mitch I wouldn't know, but the TLF is I think among the best we have, and it gives three references. I certainly would trust it more than Littré.
Of course that is no proof, and we don't know how confident those references are; but I would trust that they have good reasons.
Cri- is in fact attested when you look at the examples.
@Cerberus I know no more about how Wikipedia works than she does. Thanks for your input.
> ca 1050 suivi de que + subj. et ne discordantiel criem ind. prés. 1repers. du sing. (Alexis, éd. Chr. Storey, 60 : mult criem que ne t'em perde);
@Cerberus I think that statement needs some modification.
@Færd Let's consult Wikipaedia...
01:36
Of course RT is directly financed by the Kremlin.
But they need to exploit the kind of freedom of press that they get in the US in a way that brings them a good name.
So they give their anchors and hosts a degree of freedom on RT America (and maybe some other channels) that they wouldn't give to a domestic channels.
And besides, she did part ways with RT and continue on her own.
Even so, the entire organisation (RT and RT America) was created from the ground up to further the agenda of the Russian government.
Some degree of freedom can be part of that.
But ultimately, its structure is far from independent.
No question about that.
Regardless, the same video as the one you showed me could have been on e.g. Fox News, mutatis mutandis.
I'm sure the Fox board would like to egg on their journalists to criticise independent institutions like Wikipaedia.
Even more neutral or liberal media sometimes fall into this trap.
She just talked about her experience with Wikipedia.
She saw her page repeatedly opened and closed.
Like the Guardian could be criticising Wikipaedia as being biased in a way that betrays a lack of understanding of how it works.
01:43
And then an admin block it from being opened by non-admins.
Could be a normal procedure as far as I'm concerned.
@Færd Well, 'saw': it sounded more like she or her secretary had been trying to create her own page, which is expressly against Wiki policy.
I don't know what happened exactly, but it seems clear that she doesn't, either.
She says she wasn't involved with that.
If the IP from which it was created was linked to RT, that might be the reason.
@Cerberus But there are people who use that kind of medium to criticize the status quo in the US in a way that's not possible even on CNN and the like.
I don't know CNN very well.
01:45
And she did part ways with RT and carry on on her own.
Here's her condemnation of Russia's occupation of Crimea, on her show on RT America:
It was meant to be a general remark about RT: it is untrustworthy in an entirely different way from mainstream Western media. Maybe Fox is the same as RT. CNN, for example, may be biased in favour of America; but I don't believe it has government people directly influencing editors or policy or steering the agenda in other ways.
It's not really that different if it's corporate sponsors who set the mood.
Maybe some radical critics here and there get a chance to respire and voice their thoughts, but the general set is what I'm talking about.
@Færd She seems genuine enough. Although she refuses to specify her criticism of RT.
Which is probably understandable.
@Færd Well, if you're owned by Murdoch, then, indeed, I would not trust your channel much, knowing that he and his family directly interfere with the composition or policies of their editorial staff.
But I do not believe that this is the case with e.g. the NYT or the WP.
They may be biased, but not in a way that was planned by their owner.
They allow different degrees of freedom in the content they put out.
I wonder what, for example, the general response of the NYT and WP were at the outset of the Vietnam war? Or the Iraq war? I should see into that.
@Færd They may very well have been biased in those cases.
01:59
There you go.
Or at least wrongly believed their government.
But at least there wasn't a MiniTruth that had founded the entire organisation and still controlled it from upstairs.
So, in that case, the result was no better, but I still think there is an important flaw in RT that the NYT and the WP lack.
@Cerberus That's not the reality of the US governance. The media hegemony works in a more relaxed way in the US.
What is 'that'?
@Færd Okay, so you agree on that point?
The MiniTruth and microplotting every news bit.
I don't believe the Russian MiniTruth is microplotting everything that RT does.
02:02
@Cerberus I prefer to look at the practical result. How effective are outlets like the NYT in thwarting imperialist attitudes of the government?
Hitler built beautiful railroads and bridges that we still use today.
This is of course an analogy.
But I think there's more than just results, even though results are also important.
If the bipartisanship of media goes along with the general guidelines of US policies, which it does, then there's a problem.
But I have to concede that those two newspapers seem to be at least editorially independent, and probably not a huge deal more biased than most major newspapers in civilised countries.
Maybe.
@Færd American media already had this partisan problem in the 19th century. They were already nothing like European (Continental) media.
As witnessed by a Dutchman who visited the country in the 19th century—a man I despise, by the way, but his account seemed credible in this respect.
02:08
I see.
Even so, the point about editorial independence is still important to me.
Independence from political parties or actors.
(Note: perhaps European media had other problems, but the problem of political partisanship seemed to be worse there than there at the time.)
So you could understand those who get frustrated by this bipartisan grip of mainstream media and try to find a way out of it through something like RT America.
@Cerberus I have a lot to learn about comparative media studies.
Well, I'm not sure.
Which people do you have in mind, and what is their criticism of the partisan media?
@Færd So do we all, probably...
@Cerberus The woman who we started talking about in the first place.
I don't know why she decided to work for RT.
But journalism is a tough business, it's hard to find a decent job, lots of competition.
And RT may offer above-average salaries, because it's harder to find American journalists willing to work for them, and because Putin dumped a big bag of money on them.
02:14
I hear keeping RT going is among their top priorities they wouldn't let go of even in times of crisis.
They = the Russian government?
Yes.
I think RT has a function similar that of the Voice of America.
Although I must admit I've never seen or read anything by the latter.
@Cerberus Does it have offices around the world?
I think so?
02:17
I wonder if it's considered a spying agency anywhere, the way RT is in America.
It is treated similarly by the Russian government, yes.
To be more accurate, RT works under this act where they have to come clean about all their monetary transactions and relations, unlike France 24, for example.
You'd have to read the act to see what it exactly is.
And I would be much surprised if the Persian government didn't put restrictions on the VoA...
@Færd Yeah, treated like a foreign agency etc.
@Cerberus Haha let me see if their website isn't censored.
It very much is.
Surprise.
> In response to the United States Department of Justice request that RT register as a foreign agent under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, December 2017 saw Russia's Justice Ministry label Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty as foreign agents.[8][9]
I hope I'm still allowed to quote Wikipaedia...
02:23
Well. At least there are the references.
Indeed.
CBS and Reuters.
I'm not always happy with my newspaper.
You have a pet paper?
Some bias can be observed.
But it's generally very independent.
@Færd Yeah, I added a newspaper to my media empire.
My real name is Rupert Berlusconi-Sarkozy, by the way. Enchanté.
(Actually, I think Sarkozy had lots of friends that owned big media companies, did not own any himself.)
@Cerberus I'm just happy I'm a nobody. Enchanté.
I am subscribed to NRC Handelsblad.
Yay!
02:28
To think I could influence masses with political or journalistic power. A horror in this world.
In my current situation, at least.
@Cerberus Ah the one that didn't have an English page.
@Færd Why in your current station?
@Færd Oh, could be.
I don't think any major Dutch newspapers have an English version.
@Cerberus I watch my opinions sway between opposite poles on a daily basis.
I guess I've got some of my principles straight by now, but the devil is in the detail.
Go = got?
Yes, typo.
Like which opposites?
And isn't that only wholesome?
02:33
@Cerberus Like the recent unrest among the working class in Iran.
The situation got so muddy I didn't know which way to support: the continuation of a non-violent protest against the regime's violent response, or backing off for security reasons.
Hmm.
A difficult dilemma.
@Cerberus Not if it's too much.
I generally prefer gradual change over revolution.
And the security reasons involved foreign intervention of course, which makes things tenfold more complex.
Although Iran has been a highly stable society for a very long time, look at what happened to France.
02:35
Yeah revolutions suck.
You mean, foreign powers might seem the opportunity to...
Do what, exactly?
Yes.
Gain influence? Probably.
Use whatever unrest as an excuse to directly get involved.
Invade? That seems less likely, for that is the surest way to kill a revolution and restore the ancien régime.
02:37
But the point is these are key decisions to make if you have massive say in the outcome.
And I'm just happy I don't have that for now.
I should think everyone would unite behind the army / RG in the event of a Saudi or American invasion.
@Færd Understandable.
@Cerberus Meaning the nation?
Mainly the centre, but probably also everyone except the most extreme revolutionaries.
And possibly even the revolutionaries themselves, because everyone hates invading Satans?
I should think the majority would rally behind the regime to defend against invaders.
Exactly.
02:39
But it would be much less impressive than it was at the time of Saddam.
Probably.
But still enough to kill off an ongoing revolution, I should think.
Let me go dream the result of that scenario.
I'll tell you what happens.
It's sleep time.
Hah.
It probably wouldn't be a pleasant dream.
What we expect is intermittent protests, some deaths, but no revolution.
What I'm most curious about is what will happen when Khamenei dies.
When I mentioned supporting the workers' protests, I didn't mean leading it to become a revolution.
Will the Thingamabob Council appoint a more moderate figure?
02:43
If that's where this idea was intriduced in our discussion.
Your leading them in a revolution? I didn't think you a revolutionary, no.
@Cerberus I think the RG has become the enormous organizaion that it is to ensure the process of appointing of a Leader.
The army wouldn't be enough if there's large-scale backlash.
Right, the big elephant in the room.
Would he be more moderate? Hopefully so.
Do you think the RG is firmly supporting the hawks, i.e. the old conservative politicians?
02:47
They didn't get to appoint the people who they wanted in the council that elects the Leader. People didn't vote for them.
Yeah, I was happy to read that.
@Cerberus It's a mess. If you consider Ahmadinejad a hawk, for example, he was never really aligned with the RG lines.
I think he was a hawk and a populist, but not super conservative?
They got along better in the old days, and then it came to light that they were different kinds of hawks.
I think Khamenei hated A.?
02:49
At what time, exactly?
By the end, but probably also much earlier, but we just didn't know it yet?
He probably preferred him over Rafsanjani all along.
And he expressly came out and say that at the beginnig of A's second term.
Kh. sought to use A. as a stick to beat progressives with, but then his Frankenstein turned out to have a will of its own?
Right.
@Cerberus Yeah.
It was obvious that he wasn't the obeying pet that people expected him to be.
As I understood the situation, Kh. and his clique sought to alternate between progressive and conservative PMs: conservatives to follow their agenda, but some progressives in between to let the people / middle classes vent some steam and learn how progressive governments didn't perform very well, really, so they should see the error of their ways and stop resisting conservative governments.
02:53
That, to some extent.
Although I don't know how far Kh. & co. would go in blocking moderate-progressive candidates.
But I think the so called progressive governments were of more use to the Leader than that.
Perhaps he doesn't know it himself, and he'd rather not find out...
@Færd Because they actually did perform better?
More use than venting steam?
Kh realizes that the small-minded ways of the conservatives would drag everything into the mud.
But he doesn't come out in their support, becuase it would undermine his own power.
Hmm he doesn't have enough wise (conservative) supporters that could be PMs?
02:56
You mean presidents? Parliament members?
Ack, I meant presidents, sorry.
But also MPs.
@Cerberus Those who are wise enough are not absolute meek supporters.
Enough people from his clique that he trusts would govern the country in a stable way.
They have their own voice, which could get problematic.
Perhaps they need not be meek, as long as they are smart and have the same agenda as he does.
He must have been thinking about a successor for decades.
So far, I haven't heard anything about his preferences in that matter?
02:58
Nothing officially announced yet.
Or is he not rational about that one aspect of his outlook on the country's future?
There are speculations.
Some men are loath to see beyond their deaths.
@Cerberus I don't think he is.
02:59
He's been talking about his deteriorating health and imminent death for a while.
Ah, that is very explicit!
Who do you think could be a serious candidate?
No family, right?
@Cerberus Not that loudly and frequently, but enough to be perceived by perceptible antennae.
Indeed, that doesn't sound like someone in denial.
@Cerberus I have no definite idea beyond some hearsay, but yes probably not family.
I don't know anyone in his family fit for this post.
I think Rohani's main opponent in the last elections was so old and extreme that he would not be suitable as a Supreme Leader?
@Færd Right, they just don't seem prominent enough?
Hmm, Raisi isn't old.
03:04
@Cerberus Some say the strategy was to poke him in the eye of the public, so that he became a candidate to succeed the Leader, if he didn't win the presidency.
Oh no he's not that old.
@Færd You mean, to give him visibility?
Yes.
OK.
And why only if he didn't win?
@Cerberus That, plus some are at variance with him, some seem too weak to me, etc.
Right.
I hope Kh. looked at Venezuela.
03:06
@Cerberus I mean that was the if he didn't win part.
You don't want to be succeeded by an idiot.
@Færd I don't understand.
(But I think Kh. is much smarter than Ch. was.)
I f he'd won the presidency, he's still be a candidate to succeed the Leader.
Right.
So you meant, even if he didn't win.
I don't know what I meant. I don't even know if I'm dreaming the dream that we talked about or not.
Even if he should not win, his participation in the election still served as a way to give him prominence.
03:09
Yes.
OK.
Do you think Raisi smart?
@Cerberus I think he's smart, and righteous too prolly.
Don't you think Chaves was righteous?
Well, I don't know enough about Chavez.
Not in a smart way. He prolly just felt right about what he did.
Not even how to spell his name, apparently.
03:10
@Cerberus Me neither.
@Cerberus Don't know him enough, but the way he was involved in some shady business at the dawn of the revolution didn't seem too clever to me.
Hmm.
But he must have been very young.
He could've been more covert about that.
Yes.
Do you think he could become more like A. than like Kh.?
A. didn't seem super clever to me. Although it is a long time ago.
@Cerberus He's an Islamic theorist of sorts, with clearer vision of how to run an Islamic Republic.
Right.
03:14
A just went according to his gut feeling.
That was also my impression...
But do you think R. has the political and societal savvy to keep the country stable?
I don't know.
He tried to appeal to the youth at the time of the election by having a meeting with a rapper, which went disastrously.
Hahaha.
That does sound like a very bad idea.
Is rap even allowed?
03:16
It just showed what a two-faced hypocrite he was.
@Cerberus An underground rapper.
Even Kh. tweets...and isn't he also on Insta?
Dunno if it's officially allowed.
@Færd Ugh.
@Cerberus Guess he is.
From watching Onze man in Teheran, I learned that Thomas could film and broadcast an Iranian woman dancing, according to the censor, but the consequence would be that she could never be allowed to be on Iranian television ever in the future.
A rather pragmatic approach by the government.
03:18
That's pretty much the way it goes.
Better a blacklist than a beating.
They can't contain everyone from posting pictures on social media, but they keep a harder line for those who they let on their media.
Right.
It doesn't sound like a sustainable policy.
But it does sound pragmatic.
Well hijab is inching its way away from even the celebs' heads.
They find creative ways to maneuver around the restrictions, to the detriment of the restrictions.
Hehe.
But that has happened before, hasn't it?
Under Khatami?
03:22
It has happened from day one.
Rafsanjani?
Right.
> Rohani's opponent Raisi was a protege of Khamenei, tipped in Iranian media as a potential successor for the 77-year-old supreme leader who has been in power since 1989.
(Haaretz.)
@Færd So it could be quelled again, couldn't it?
But if too much focus on hijab takes away attention from other issues of women, which it often does, it should be considered in a broader context.
After all, still many people are in favor of a kind of hijab.
> it shouldn't be more contextualized
Just not the kind that religious leaders mandate.
I'm not sure I understood this part ^.
@Færd Right. What percentage do you think support a mandatory hijab, of any kind?
03:25
Edited it.
And what percentage among young people?
There was a government research on that ...
@Færd OK. So the war on the hijab could be seen as extremist by the majority, which would take away support for the cause of women's rights in general?
I don't trust their results exactly, but it's unlikely that older people would tolerate absolute freedom of dress.
Right. Older, as in 60+, or as in 40+?
03:27
@Cerberus Sometimes, especially if that war adopts an Islamophobic narrative.
@Cerberus 40+, maybe.
OK.
But isn't the 30–40 slice or the 20–30 slice of the population the 'thickest'?
In terms of genitalia?
Hah.
So single-minded. No, in numbers.
As in, the biggest cohort.
There are a lot of young people.
03:30
I'm asleep man. This is a Freudian inspection of me you're running.
Hah.
I'll bring a video recorder next time.
@Cerberus Let me see ...
It's almost my bed time as well.
If people under 40 are truly getting quite progressive, that gives one good hope for the intermediate future.
هرم جمعیت که هرم سن جنس و نمودار ساختار سنی نیز نامیده می‌شود توصیفی گرافیکی از توزیع رده‌های مختلف سنی از جمعیت انسانی (یک منطقه کشور یا همه جهان) است. این توزیع معمولاً به شکل هرم است. این هرم معمولاً از دو نمودار میله‌ای کنار هم قرار گرفته تشکیل شده‌است. جمعیت روی محور xها و سن روی محور yها نشان داده می‌شود. بنا به قرارداد جمعیت مردها در سمت چپ و زنان در سمت راست هر ستون به نمایش در می‌آید. اما معمولاً در ایران آمار مردان را در طرف راست میله و آمار زنان را در طرف چپ قرار می‌دهند. == نگارخانه == == منابع... ==
Too small!
03:32
So it's thickest around 20-30.
@Cerberus But they won't stay so hot-headed as they age, and also I don't claim to have a universal understaning of the psyche of the Iranian youth.
Yes.
It just seems more relaxed and liberated on average.
People get more conservative as they get older.
But even so.
It's bed time, isn't it?
03:34
Hahaha.
Nigh on.
Or was this your mid-sleep snack time?
My sleep cycle has been inverted in Ramadan.
I eat with the family, even though I don't fast.
Ah, I see.
So I've become nocturnal, and I sleep during the day.
Don't get fat!
03:36
Quite the reverse.
Some schools here have Iftar celebrations.
Oh?
I'm practically fasting along with everyone.
OK.
I should clearly convert.
@Cerberus Are there any restrictions as to the impostion of fasting on young Muslim students?
The imposition?
03:38
Are there any Muslim majority schools?
Well, maybe if their health is in danger, the government would do something about the imposition of fasting by their parents.
Probably not.
Yes, many.
Okay then. I think some young children may well be instructed by their teachers and families to fast.
There are even like 30 schools that teach based on Islam. But there are hundreds more that just have a Muslim majority.
@Færd By their families, no doubt. By some of their teachers, perhaps; but that is probably illegal.
03:41
It could be settled in a peaceful way tho: those who are too weak are not required to fast.
But that depends on technicalities.
I know.
Islamic primary schools in Amsterdam.
Aantal leerlingen = number of pupils.
The quality of these schools seems to be increasing as well.
Do they allow strict or radical teachings in them?
Which is probably not the case in most (non-Islamic) schools with a Muslim majority.
@Færd Depends on your definition. Generally not, but it's hard to check.
How many Christian schools do you have?
A great many.
Most of which do very little about religion.
03:45
Don't you think it could create a problem if they keep to themselves from young age?
Oops, my computer shut down.
OK.
I'm leaving anyway. Good talking to you.
Ciao.
You mean whether having Muslim schools could increase segregation?
Perhaps.
But non-Muslim schools where 95 percent of the children are Muslim could have the same effect.
Sleep well!
Typing on my phone.
(I think what really increases segregation is the constant harping on Muslims in public media that right-wing parties do.)
04:08
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4 hours later…
07:55
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +1 more: maleintalk.com/erectify-ultra/ by user302900 on english.SE
08:40
@Færd I'm interested. Actually, RT often does quite good journalism.
Or should I say, they often hire good journalists?
There was some woman there who was doing good work. I think she was American.
But with a Russian name. I forget the name right now.
09:08
I don't fast. I slow.
That's your joke of the day, enjoy.
 
1 hour later…
10:18
0
Q: "something replaced with a company's design" single word

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10:45
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0
Q: What is the name of something that possesses a desire?

extremeaxe5What's the name of an object that possesses a desire? As examples, all humans possess desires. More generally, sentient beings possess desires. However, we can up the abstraction. Organizations possess desires. States possess desires. What is the name of an entity that possess desires?

11:46
@FaheemMitha Anissa Naouai? I saw some clips of her which I liked.
@FaheemMitha Good journalism is when you do the hard thing. For a Russian channel to openly criticize US policies is not the most difficult task. But if they kept everyone under unbiased scrutiny, that'd be an honorable performance. I'm not sure if they're generally committed to that.
@Cerberus I agree. It's mostly a problem that they create for themselves. That's what I tell those Europeans who feel threatened by Muslim populations in their countries.
But it's a bit hard for me to imagine the life of Muslim minorities, seeing as I've lived all my life in a Muslim majority country. That's why I might sound quasi-Islamophobic sometimes.
But when I consider the freedom of Jews, or Christians, or atheists in my country to have their congregations and private culture etc, it goes without saying.
Whether I agree with their ideologies or not.
01:00 - 12:0013:00 - 22:00

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