English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

01:52

@Cerberus Only if you already know it.

I find the juxtaposition of "I you pray" and "I ewes bleat" to be especially deceptive. :)

Few now but the educated even know what "Wot ye" means.

Cerberus

02:46

Hah.

@tchrist Hah.

@tchrist Weet je?

tchrist

know

> To have cognizance or knowledge of; to be aware of; to know (as a fact or an existing thing)

> Etymology: A Common Germanic preterite-present verb: Old English witan , 1st and 3rd singular present indicative wát , 2nd person wást , plural witon , past tense wisse , wiste , past participle gewiten , Old Frisian wita , wêt , *wast , *witon , witen and witath , wiste (modern Frisian dialects have various analogical forms, e.g. past participle wist , wust ), Old Saxon witan , wêt , wêst , witun , wissa (Middle Low German, Middle Dutch wêten , weet , weets , weten , wiste , gheweten , Low German, Dutch weten ), Old High German wiȥȥan , wiȥan , weiȥ , wiȥ(ȥ)umês , wiȥ(ȥ)un , wissa , wist…

@Cerberus So yes.

> The original conjugation, typically represented by to wit or wete , present I and he wot , thou wost , we , ye , and they wite , past tense wist , past participle witen , presented many apparent anomalies

OE had two distinct verbs, parallel to cognosco and scio.

Cerberus

Yeah, Dutch usually changes less.

Do you mean know and wit?

Parallel in what way?

tchrist

The first was to be acquainted with, the second to know a fact.

Know won.

And yet, we still have wit as a noun.

I've drop-dead tired.

Cerberus

Well, what is the exact difference between those two?

Because I think the Latin verbs have various uses.

tchrist

> witan

to know, be aware
to be wise
to be conscious of, to know or feel (an emotion etc.)

Cerberus

03:00

There is also novi, which you will probably group under cognosco?

tchrist

yes

Cerberus

Dutch still has the distinction between weten and kennen.

I presume that is more of less what you meant?

It's mainly that they have different praedicate frames, I should say.

tchrist

cnawan was the other one. It gave us Scots ken and apparently our own can.

gecnawan

Verb: ġecnāwan

To know, perceive, understand, acknowledge, recognize; beknow.
To be familiar or acquainted with.
To make known, declare.

Cerberus

Yes, I presume they're all related.

Know, can, (g)nosco, kennen.

tchrist

Yeah.

Cerberus

03:03

You can kennen a person, a fact, a thing. But you can only weten a fact.

You can weten that...

But you cannot kennen that...

tchrist

> Origin: A variant or alteration of another lexical item. Etymon: yknow v.
Etymology: Cognate with Old High German -knāen (weak verb, only in the prefixed verbs biknāen beknow v., inknāen to recognize, irknāen to recognize, to perceive, to comprehend, to understand; these verbs did not survive into Middle High German, being superseded by corresponding prefixed formations in -kennen ken v.1), Old Icelandic kná (defective verb, first person singular; first person plural knegum ; past tense knátta ) to know how to do (something), to be able to < the same Indo-European base as Sanskrit jñā- to…

Oh, ken was the causative!

> Etymology: Common Germanic: Old English cęnnan (cęnde , cęnned ) = Frisian kanna , kenna , Old Saxon (ant)kennian (Middle Dutch and Dutch kennen ), Old High German (ir- , in- , pi- ) chennan (Middle High German and German kennen ), Old Norse kenna (Swedish känna , Danish kjende , kende ), Gothic kannjan , factitive of the preterite-present *kann- , I know: see can v.1
The form is properly causative ‘to cause to know’, ‘to make known’, and was restricted to this use in Gothic and Old English At an early period, however, in all the Germanic tongues, the verb also acquired the sense ‘to know…

> I. In causative senses. (All Obs.)
Thesaurus »

†1. trans. To make known, declare, confess, acknowledge. Obs.
c975 Laws K. Edgar iv. §10 Gif he þonne cenð [§11 cænne] þæt he hit mid gewitnysse bohte.
OE Beowulf 1219 Cen þec mid cræfte, ond þyssum cnyhtum wes lara liðe.
c1000 Ags. Ps. cvii[i]. 8 Ic me to cyninge cenne Iudas..ic Idumea ealle cenne.
c1275 (▸?a1200) Laȝamon Brut (Calig.) (1963) l. 3310 Ne der ich noht kennen [c1300 Otho kenne]..þat ich her king weore.

The causative survived into Middle English.

Cerberus

Ah, I see.

tchrist

> 2. a. To make known, to impart the knowledge of (a thing). Usually with dat. of person (or to): To make a thing known to one; to teach one something. Obs.
a1225 Leg. Kath. 1347 & tat we kennið þe wel..þat we leaueð þi lahe.
a1325 (▸c1250) Gen. & Exod. (1968) l. 216 A fruit ðe kenned wel and wo.
a1352 L. Minot Poems vii. 34 Calais men, now may ze care..Sir Edward shall ken zow zowre crede.
1362 Langland Piers Plowman A. i. 90 Clerkes þat knowen hit scholde techen [v.r. kenne] hit aboute.

Cerberus

And Dutch kunnen is probably the non-causative?

And is hearken from ken?

I should think so?

tchrist

Oh wait, there's an obsolete EME version.

> †c. to ken thank: to make known or express thanks: = can v.1 Phrases 1, con v.1 1. Obs.
c1440 W. Hylton Scala Perfeccionis (1494) iii. viii Sothly he wyll kenne the more thanke for thy meke wesshynge of his fete.
1561 T. Hoby tr. B. Castiglione Courtyer iii. sig. Mm.i Leaste..he ken them the lesse thanke for doinge all thinges contrarily.
a1566 R. Edwards Damon & Pithias (1571) sig. Eiij All right courtiers will kenne me thank.

"All right courtiers will kenne me thank."

Cerberus

03:07

Right.

tchrist

> Etymology: Old English hercnian , heorcnian , hyrcnian , formed with suffix -n- < *heorci-an , the Old English type of hark v.
The spelling harken , which agrees with that of hark n., and is at once more regular and of earlier standing, is the accepted one in modern American Dictionaries, and is preferred by some good English writers; but in current English use it is much less frequent than hearken . The preference for the latter spelling is probably due to association with hear v., supported by the analogy of heart and hearth.

Cerberus

We have toekennen in Dutch, to grant something to someone.

So I suppose the old causative sense and the newer non-causative are still both present.

tchrist

I don't think hearken is/was causative.

> 1. intr. To apply the ears to hear; to listen, give ear. Const. to (†of), in Old English and Middle English with dative.

Cerberus

I thought English hearken was Dutch oorkond.

tchrist

> 4. a. trans. To hear with attention, give ear to (a thing); to listen to; to have regard to, heed; to understand, learn by hearing; to hear, perceive by the ear. Now only poet.

> 3. b. With personal obj. (orig. dative as in 1; but this afterwards levelled with the accusative or objective). Obs. exc. dial.

> 3. a. intr. To apply the mind to what is said; to attend, have regard; to listen with sympathy or docility. Const. to.

Most of the rest is obsolete.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:11

Hello.

tchrist

> 1832 Tennyson Œnone in Poems (new ed.) 52 Dear mother Ida, hearken ere I die.

Hello

> 1896 A. Austin England's Darling ii. iv. 58 They would not harken.

But:

> 1832 Tennyson New Year's Eve 39 Tho' I cannot speak a word, I shall harken what you say.

> Forms: OE hercnian, heorcnian, ME hercnen, ( Orm. herrcnenn), ME hærcnien, ME heorknien, herknen, herkin, ME–15 herken, ME herkon, ME herkyn, ME harkyn, 15 harcken; ME– harken, 15– hearken.

Cerberus

Hmm so they're not related, then.

tchrist

That herrcnenn is weird, like with cnen awareness.

Perhaps someone thought they were. :)

Cerberus

Quite possibly.

Dutch oor = "ear".

And the English etymology says hearken is related to hear (I think), which may be related to ear?

But that is apparently a coincidence.

Because Dutch oor "ear" is not related to oor- in "oorkonde".

tchrist

@Cerberus yes

> Cognates of hauzjan outside Germanic are unknown. Conjectures of its relationship to the root auz- ear n.1, to Latin audīre, and Greek ἀκούειν, are all extremely doubtful.

Cerberus

03:16

Hmm.

tchrist

> Etymology: Common Germanic verb: Old English, early West Saxon híeran, late West Saxon hýran, Anglian héran ( < *héarjan ) = Old Frisian hêra , hôra ( < *hôrja ) (West Frisian hearren , Satl. hêra ), Old Saxon hôrjan , hôrean (Middle Low German, Middle Dutch hôren , Dutch hooren ), Old High German hôrren (Middle High German hœren , German hören ), Old Norse heyra (Norwegian höyra , Swedish höra , Danish höre ), all < *haurjan = Gothic hausjan , < Old Germanic *hauzjan . Beside the simple verb, Old English had, like the other old Germanic languages, the compound gehíeran (Gothic gahausjan …

@Cerberus Maybe ear and hear are not related!?!?!?

> Origin: A word inherited from Germanic.
Etymology: Cognate with Old Frisian āre, ār, Old Dutch ōra (Middle Dutch ōre, Dutch oor), Old Saxon ōra, ōre (Middle Low German ōre, ōr), Old High German ōra (Middle High German ōre, ōr, German Ohr), Old Icelandic eyra, Old Swedish öra (Swedish öra), Old Danish øre (Danish øre), Gothic ausō < the same Indo-European base as (with various different stem-formations) ancient Greek οὖς, classical Latin auris, Early Irish ó (rare and literary), Old Church Slavonic uxo, Lithuanian ausis, all in the sense ‘ear’.

The Latin/Romance bits are at the end of that.

Cerberus

@tchrist horen "to hear": Alleen verwant met Grieks akoúein ‘horen’ (zoals in → akoestiek); bij pie. *h2kous-. Andere opvattingen, zoals verband met → oor < pie. *aus- < *h2eus- (vergelijk Latijn audīre <*aus-dire ‘horen’), of een verdere ontleding van het Griekse woord in pie. *h2eḱ- ‘scherp’ en oũs ‘oor’ (en dus horen = ‘de oren spitsen’), zijn achterhaald en verouderd.

tchrist

verouderd

So mean.

Cerberus

I'm sorry.

tchrist

Guess people used to think that way.

Cerberus

03:21

So, yes, it appears ear and hear are not related.

But hear and acoustic are.

tchrist

aural

Cerberus

Related to ear.

tchrist

> Etymology: < Latin auris ear + -al suffix1. (Latin would probably have been aurīlis.)

@Cerberus Should have been earal then!

Cerberus

But it should mean having to with air.

As in aura.

tchrist

That's a different word.

Cerberus

03:23

@tchrist Indeed.

@tchrist Yes, but that's what aural should mean.

tchrist

> Etymology: < aura n. + -al suffix1.

There is one that means that, but it has noting to do with ears.

Cerberus

Maybe aura and air are related.

@tchrist It should be the only one.

tchrist

αὔρα

So yes.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 How have you been?

> ▸a1398 J. Trevisa tr. Bartholomaeus Anglicus De Proprietatibus Rerum (BL Add. 27944) (1975) I. xi. xvi. 595 Aura is lyȝt wynde imeued.

Damn that's old.

Cerberus

imeued?

@tchrist How so?

tchrist

@Cerberus gemoved?

Cerberus

03:26

That's what I thought, but...

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist Oh, pretty good overall. Glad that 2017 is over. How about you?

Et tu, @Cerberus?

Cerberus

OK.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Greetings!

Why are you glad it's over?

tchrist

@Cerberus Your guess is as good as mine; that was mine. :)

Cerberus

OK.

tchrist

Cerberus

03:27

Yes, but is it related to aer?

Air is from aer.

tchrist

> Origin: A borrowing from French. Etymons: French aeir, air.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus I had issues, then surgery, then I quit my day job, and I'm adjusting.

The arbitrary demarcation is nice.

tchrist

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that.

> Etymology: Originally (in branch I.) < Anglo-Norman aeir, aier, eire, eyer, heir, heyr, heyre, Anglo-Norman and Old French aire, eir, Anglo-Norman and Old French, Middle French aer, air, Middle French ayer, ayr (French air ) the invisible gaseous substance which envelops the earth and is breathed by all land animals (beginning of the 12th cent. in Anglo-Norman), the atmosphere as a whole (second half of the 12th cent. in Anglo-Norman), contaminated atmosphere, miasma (end of the 12th cent. or earlier), air as one of the four (or more) elements (first half of the 13th cent. or earlier), ai…

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist It was just an ulnar nerve transposition. I have a Tommy John scar.

tchrist

Stoopit Noormen couldn't spell, could they? aeir, aier, eire, eyer, heir, heyr, heyre

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:29

Feels way better than it did.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh, dear! That is a lot.

tchrist

Was it from typing?

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That's good!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Bron-Yr-Aur

tchrist

> classical Latin āera , variant form of accusative singular of āēr (after ancient Greek ἀέρα , accusative singular of ἀήρ

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:31

@tchrist largely, yes. And sleeping with both arms at 40-degree angles, and playing guitar, and hanging my arm out the car window, and

tchrist

donner de l'air à really should be farting. :)

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh, dear.

How does the 40-degree sleeping happen?

tchrist

Winter. :)

Cerberus

@tchrist But I don't know the etymology of both Greek words.

tchrist

@Cerberus Unless something else tell me, I dead-end once it hits Greek.

Cerberus

03:32

Right.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus what @tch said. Also, I fall asleep much more reliably on my side, and my pillow is never elevated just right, so I shove my arms up there.

Cerberus

So then we don't know whether they are related.

tchrist

> Beekes gives Proto-Hellenic *auhḗr (“morning mist”), from Proto-Indo-European *h₂ewsḗr, from *h₂ews- (“dawn; east”). Cognate with αὔρᾱ (aúrā) (< *h₂éwsreh₂), Latin aurōra.[1] The a was lengthened to ā by compensatory lengthening.
Sihler gives Proto-Hellenic *āwḗr (“morning mist”) but provides no further etymology.[2][3]

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh, the pillow I understand.

tchrist

Oh, I think aura and aer are.

Cerberus

03:33

But what does it have to do with winter?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus frozen fingers

Cerberus

Ohh.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I got the Reynaud's.

tchrist

@Cerberus 40 degrees :)

Cerberus

And that affected the angle in which you held your elbows during sleep?

@tchrist A 40-degree angle.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:34

@Cerberus it's just something I've always done since I hit the point where I can't fall asleep on my back anymore.

Cerberus

Oh, OK.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Well, it takes a lot longer.

tchrist

I keep being forced to sleep on my back but it's hard.

Cerberus

I can't sleep on my back either.

@tchrist How so?

tchrist

yeah

@Cerberus Pinching nerve pain in the hip eventually otherwise.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:35

I've found that throwing both arms up in the air helps.

Ouch.

Cerberus

And sleeping on one's back is bad for apnoea.

tchrist

Well, depends.

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, that's annoying.

tchrist

@Cerberus They have masks for that.

With forced air.

Cerberus

I have hip pain too sometimes, but I figure a good mattress should be able to solve that.

@tchrist I know.

And I don't have apnoea.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:37

We got a new mattress over the summer. It needs to be tenderized or something.

Side sleeping can really make my hips sore in that thing.

tchrist

Exactly.

Cerberus

But I thought it was generally not recommended to sleep on one's back if one has issues with one's nose, throat, etc.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Or maybe a soft top mattress?

I have been planning to get one of those.

Since 2010.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus That would be nice. This thing has a memory foam top. It's like a non-Newtonian substance, this bed.

Cerberus

Hmm.

So you're waiting for the memory foam to do its memorisation?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I have, when prone, raised one knee, and put it back down fast enough that it hurt my calf a little.

Cerberus

03:39

Why does sleeping suck so badly?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus Yes. Bed feels great in the morning!

@Cerberus I've wondered that a lot lately.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That is something!

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Yeah, it's weird.

Why do so many of us suck at sleeping?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus good for bed stretches. Bed stretches are best stretches.

Cerberus

There are like 1000 different issues, of which half of us have at least one.

tchrist

@Cerberus Cats sitting on our faces stealing our spirit.

Cerberus

03:48

I love cats, but I would make sure they didn't disturb my sleep any more than it already disturbs itself.

tchrist

Sleep and I are seldom on good terms.

Cerberus

Idem dito.

Mitch

@Cerberus I can't understand it at all. A few words here and there at the end of a verse. Too muddy

tchrist

@Mitch holpen

Cerberus

@Mitch Same here.

Somehow I didn't think of noel.

Mitch

04:02

@tchrist pfft

that's the sound of blowing cat hair out of your face

@Cerberus I also did not think of noel. I have no idea where you came up with that to not think of it.

Cerberus

I miraculously came up with it after reading the lyrics.

Mitch

@Cerberus If I were a cat I wouldn't want to risk that big lumbering food-serving idiot to roll over and crush me

People are so inept when they sleep. Have they no control over themselves?

Cerberus

That, too.

Mitch

@Cerberus what is it about Morris dancing?

Cerberus

When she was a child, my friend once woke up lying on top of her dead hamster that had escaped from its cage and snuggled up to her at night.

She's still not quite over it.

Mitch

04:06

oh yeah...

Apr 22 '15 at 12:50, by Robusto

@Mitch Q. Why do Morris dancers wear bells? A. So they can annoy the blind as well.

@Cerberus Now that I know, I'm not sure I will either

It's actually quite nice to have a cat lying down on your chest staring at you, and you starting at it. until you both fall asleep. You keep each other warm.

Cerberus

@Mitch Interesting tradition.

Mitch

but then you sneeze, the cat freaks out and extends its claws, you scream and push the cat off, the alarm clock goes off, and then the deafening smoke alarm, the fire engines roll up, a huge man with helmet and face mask axes down the door, and then you bolt upright your heart pounding its way out of your chest, it's pitch dark, nothing is happening and the cat is sitting on the bed quietly, giving you the look 'What is wrong with you?'

@Cerberus bettern a dead hamster. But I guess if I were a cat I wouldn't push it away.

Wait.. do cats turn their noses up at prey that is already dead?

tchrist

No sport in it.

Mitch

04:21

but they play with their food to make sure it is dead before they eat it

I'm just trying to fathom the inscrutable cat feeding rules

so if they kill it dead themselves, it's OK?

and the torture scene beforehand is like meal prep?

Tonepoet

Thank you @tchrist. Hopefully somebody will be able to write a good answer. Also, I gave the wrong link to the help center. This is what I meant. XD

Cerberus

05:27

@Mitch Speaking from experience?

Feeds

06:49

0

Q: Someone who is about to make a decision

Is there a word for someone who is, sooner or later, about to make a (potentially critical) decision? (I am trying to construct a headline as "Letter to X" where X is the word I am looking for.)

single-word-requests

Jason Marsh

09:50

Hello guys

Feeds

11:59

0

Q: Word for a person who likes things to be aesthetically pleasing

Is there a common English word that means the following? A person who likes it when things are aesthetically pleasing.

single-word-requests

Feeds

12:33

0

Q: What to call someone who is unable/bad in holding a converstation

Okay, So I am in often in a conversation with this person. But I have now realized that all our talks have been futile because he keeps on repeating the same topics. Topics I have talked about before. I just want to tell him you are 'x word' and don't want to continue having conversations with h...

single-word-requests

Mitch

13:24

@Cerberus I can't really say right now.

Somebody is watching

Faheem Mitha

13:37

@Mitch That would be the internet.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha Ha ha. No. The cat. Don't say that out loud, he might hear.

CowperKettle

14:16

> The study was performed in rabbits (3 kg males) -- will this be okay, or should I always use bucks for "rabbit males"?

terdon

14:28

@CowperKettle No, rabbits is fine. Otherwise, you'd have to say rabbit bucks anyway, since buck isn't specific to rabbits. Most people (or I, at least) would first think of deer.

tchrist

15:13

-1

Q: What to call someone who is unable/bad in holding a converstation

Okay, So I am in often in a conversation with this person. But I have now realized that all our talks have been futile because he keeps on repeating the same topics. Topics I have talked about before. I just want to tell him you are 'x word' and don't want to continue having conversations with h...

single-word-requests pejorative-language epithet-requests

How is that not POB?

Let's just make a list of rude words and see which one she like best, ok?

Faheem Mitha

15:26

@tchrist POB?

tchrist

Primarily opinion based.

Faheem Mitha

@tchrist Ah, right.

CowperKettle

15:40

@terdon No, I mean is it fine to use males in the parentheses? In the end I chose to use bucks

terdon

@CowperKettle Yes, that's what I meant too. Males is absolutely fine.

Just as a simple test, compare the 772 results in Google Scholar for "rabbit bucks", to the 42,800 for "male rabbits".

Neither perfect, nor conclusive, but certainly indicative.

Mitch

15:59

@terdon Or currency

or countermanding a trend

or where you put your feet when driving a covered wagon

or what that ornery horse is doing to the rider

Or that country singer on 'Hee Haw'

terdon

Or those, yes :)

Mitch

@CowperKettle Don't use 'bucks'. That sounds really weird in bio writing. Or in any context other than a commercial rabbit breeding operation... in a children's story.

@terdon I'm sure there's more

terdon

What Mitch said. We rarely (if indeed ever) use the specific animal husbandry terms in papers, @CowperKettle. We just say "males" or "females". For instance, while referring to a female dog as bitch is both correct and perfectly normal in the context of animal breeding, I very much doubt you'll see it in a paper discussing the evolution of Canis familiaris.

I wouldn't even expect the more common ones like sow for female pig, but certainly not buck which just isn't that common in English when referring to rabbits.

Mitch

@Cerberus Holy crap...shouldn't you be asleep? I hear there are cats available that would watch you to make sure you do it right. For a fee. Like your soul. Or a can of tuna. Whichever.

3

@terdon Yeah, bitch!

haha I used the ambiguous context to use an expletive as though it were a technical term.

terdon

you so clevah!

Feeds

16:14

0

Q: Noun for something which morally improves us

What can be a noun for the quality of something to improve us morally. I am looking for something along the lines of the word "edify", but a noun for a quality rather than a verb. The context I want to use this word in is "Religious Knowledge which has applicability and __ can be considered as ha...

single-word-requests nouns

Mitch

I'm trying to think of other contexts where that might be possible. They all seem to be over the threshold of acceptability. The F word. The C word. The N word. Can't do it.

How about when the Christian deity actually condemns someone to the nether regions of the cosmos?

Faheem Mitha

16:37

@Mitch It worked for Richard Adams.

CowperKettle

17:07

@terdon Ah! I never knew that! Thank God for search-and-replace.

terdon

It depends on the context, really @CowperKettle. But saying "male some_species" is never wrong, so you may as well stick to that to be safe.

Mitch

17:47

@FaheemMitha exactly....a children's story

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch As opposed to?

Cerberus

@Mitch Why did you think I wasn't?

My computer was off, so you couldn't have seen me here.

CowperKettle

18:12

> The plates were incubated for 60 min at 37 °C under 400 rpm shaking. (I wonder if I can phrase it thus to make it "biotechy")

"While being shaken on a shaker at 400 rpm" is a mouthful

Feeds

19:17

0

Q: How to refer to the language and grammar specifications of a formal text?

The word will be used to describe a specific way of referring to things. It is similar to the language lawyers use in court. It will be for the specification of the rules of engagement for those who participate in a specific action.

single-word-requests formality

tchrist

19:49

@Mitch hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/…

terdon

20:49

@tchrist:

in La Tertulia, Jan 25 at 15:41, by Charlie

soy el único que cada vez que veo escrito "sintaxis" lo pronuncia al ritmo de "can't touch this"? :-D

Can you avoid it now?

tchrist

21:03

:)

Piomicron

21:29

I'm trying to start a line of poetry with 'eight' (phonetically, not actually the word 'eight') but I'm having trouble coming up with a line starter. Any ideas?

terdon

@Piomicron ♪ Ate nothing but a hound dog, hungry all the time ♪

Piomicron

@terdon Hehehe, but it's more of a sentence fragment, and doesn't fit with what I'm trying to do.

A word that starts with the sound 'eight' might work, like atemporal

terdon

@Piomicron That doesn't start with the sound of eight. It's the sound of "a".

howjsay.com/…

Ate does sound like eight, which is why I suggested it, albeit in jest.

Piomicron

@terdon It can be semi-hidden. I'm confused, do you mean it's not 'ai-tem-por-uhl', or do you mean it is 'ai-tem' rather than 'ait-em'?

terdon

@Piomicron Uhm, no I'm confused. I mean it doesn't sound like eight. It sounds like a temporal. Listen to the pronunciation in the link I gave.

I guess it's because there's a small pause between the a- and the -temporal.

One of the IPA-knowledgeable will be able to explain it better.

Piomicron

21:40

@terdon It might be both of my suggestions then?

terdon

Not really sure how to parse your suggestions. What's your English dialect? Are you a native speaker?

Piomicron

Yes, I'm english

terdon

OK,my accent leans more towards AmE, so it really doesn't sound that much like eight when I say it.

Although, to be honest, I've repeated it too much now to be sure any more.

Piomicron

So... do you pronounce it 'ah-temporal'?

terdon

Yes.

Very similarly to the howjsay.com/… link.

The first syllable, anyway.

Piomicron

21:44

Hmm, maybe I just pronounce it wrong

terdon

@Piomicron Or I do!

Dammit, I think you're right, actually, and I do use the same sound as eight there.

I had to repeat eight atemporal a few times to be sure :) Sorry for the confusion!

Piomicron

@terdon Can you think of another word that would fit in the poem?

This is it so far:

To each who rule the land,
To each who toil in field,
For every man who honour’s yoke binds,
For every man, who feels duty’s weight ,
Six and ten c’mmands are carved in stone,
Six and ten edicts are writ on heart,

terdon

Ah, I see where you're going. I would try and fit ate there, probably.

Or hate?

Piomicron

Ooh, I like that one

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