English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Carlo_R.

17:06

@simchona - As you have closed the question as dupe of 'the longer X, the more Y", I note that the title which I thought was right.

Please, explain how you understood that my title was right!

Mahnax

Hello everyone.

Carlo_R.

'Ello

simchona

@Carlo_R Just because your title was right doesn't mean that's what the OP meant to ask about

until the OP says "this is the construction I need clarified"

it's all just hand waving in the dark

Matt Эллен

Bonjour monsieur @Mahnax

Carlo_R.

@RegDwight - I gived a good answer, but anyone upvote me. Why?

0

A: Correct usage of "awhile"

Oxford Dictionary define awhile as follow: "for a short time." For example, see the correct usage of awhile in the following sentence, which is very interesting: The masculine singular personal pronoun may survive awhile longer as a generic term, it will probably be ultimately displaced by...

simchona

17:14

@Carlo_R "Gived" isn't correct

Also, you made it CW so you won't get rep from the answer anyway

Carlo_R.

Yes, you are right, but I frgotten the right word

simchona

@Carlo_R *forgot

or *have/had forgotten

Carlo_R.

:)

simchona

also, please don't overuse formatting in answers

Matt Эллен

How does one get into a confident frame of mind?

KitFox

17:16

Masturbation.

Carlo_R.

@simchona Could you explain what mean "Also, you made it CW so you won't get rep from the answer anyway". I am non native

Mahnax

@MattЭллен G'day.

@simchona This.

Mitch

magical thinking

Carlo_R.

Is there somebody which explain what mean 'CW'?

Mitch

Community Wiki

KitFox

17:18

Also, @Carlo, you are still learning English and don't speak or write it particularly well. You shouldn't be surprised that your answers are not getting upvotes.

Mitch

aw man...I was shooting for a jinx

Mahnax

When your answers look like this it is nonsense.

3

Matt Эллен

@KitFox perhaps, but that uses a significant amount of energy that I was hoping to have tomorrow for work.

Mitch

they have a tendency not to understand the issues.

simchona

@CarloR Also, saying "When the choice is between for a while and awhile, prefer the latter" is prescriptive

and doesn't really have grounding

Mitch

17:19

they=the answers

KitFox

@MattЭллен Hahaha. I don't think I want to know the details there.

Mitch

er forget it..you know what I mean.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch I was looking for a link to explain community wiki, but there doesn't appear to be anything in the faq

@KitFox oh, I just mean in refilling the protein

KitFox

@MattЭллен Good Lord. What are you, painting the whole flat in that stuff?

Eat some black beans and rice then!

Carlo_R.

@simchona Is "When the choice is between for a while and awhile, I prefer the latter" better?

Matt Эллен

17:21

@KitFox rice, you say? interesting...

simchona

@Carlo_R Yeah, but I'm loathe to say "put your opinion in it"

KitFox

@MattЭллен Black beans + rice = complete proteins. Also, whole wheat + peanut butter.

Or quinoa, all by itself.

Mitch

@MattЭллен hmm...surely it's somewhere there...maybe the generic SE FAQ?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox what about oatmeal and peanut butter?

Carlo_R.

@simchona Further this, what is wrong in my answer?

KitFox

17:23

@MattЭллен I am not sure. Those are the only three that I remember.

Because I would eat those things.

Matt Эллен

I see. thanks. that's good to know :)

KitFox

And anyway, that's not solving your immediate problem.

Carlo_R.

@simchona where are you?

simchona

@Carlo_R I'm not at your command.

Carlo_R.

Sorry

KitFox

17:24

@MattЭллен What sort of confidence do you need? Enthusiasm? Trickery? Secrecy?

Carlo_R.

@simchona Are you a girl?

simchona

@Carlo_R None of your business.

Mitch

How do you say "never mind" or "forget it" in German? well, the way someone here said it (Robusto?Cerberus? RegDwight?) dict.leo.de is not coming up with anything like what you used. I really need to act like a snotty teenager in German.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I wish to send an email to someone I want to court, but I don't want to feel this anxiety when I'm writing it. It will come out in the words.

KitFox

@Mitch Try atting them.

Carlo_R.

17:26

@simchona I like to know if I speak with girl or with boy

KitFox

@MattЭллен Hmm.

simchona

@Carlo_R Get used to mystery. Deal with it.

Mitch

@KitFox Yes, I suppose I could do something actually appropriate with the technology.

Carlo_R.

@simchona Ok

KitFox

@MattЭллен Masturbation is still probably the best way to go.

simchona

17:27

@KitFox Definitely helps clear the mind, too.

KitFox

Only before you write. Not during.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox lol yeah, I figured :DD

Carlo_R.

@simchona Do you want start a new room with me

simchona

@Carlo_R No.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Too many typos and inappropriate phrases otherwise.

Well, you should be all set then.

Isn't it working?

Matt Эллен

17:28

and yet...

Carlo_R.

@simchona Why, am I boring?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Do want to post it here and we can all judge you?

Matt Эллен

well, I'm trying to paint the flat

KitFox

:D

simchona

@MattЭллен Is that a euphemism?

Matt Эллен

17:29

@simchona it was just a joke :D I was referring back to what Kit said a bit ago

KitFox

It's a much better coinage than "bellicophagery."

I think I'll use that from now on.

simchona

@Carlo_R I didn't come in here to start a one-on-one with you

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 There are not enough facepalms one can do...anyway...I vaguely remember you (or Cerberus) had a way of saying 'never mind' or 'forget it' in German , but it was not like any of the suggestions from dict.leo.de. Also, I can't find it via chatroom search.

Carlo_R.

@simchona I know. It is for that that I wanted to start a room with you.

simchona

@Carlo_R If I don't want to talk to you one on one here, why would I start a room with you?

Matt Эллен

17:31

@KitFox I'll be sure to look out for it

simchona

I feel like I'm in Green Eggs and Ham or something

Mitch

without all the rhyming.

simchona

I will not eat them with a fox...

Mitch

or sense.

Matt Эллен

I would not, could not, start a room. Not here, not there, nor on the moon!

2

Carlo_R.

17:32

Ok I give up.

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R there are no private rooms here

simchona

@Carlo_R They can read it anyway.

KitFox

@MattЭллен So anyway "Dear Such-and-so, I think you are a pretty treat. How about a nice shag down here on the carpet? Kind regards, Matt"

simchona

@MattЭллен Pure poetry, m'dear

Mitch

not a good metaphor..it doesn't end well.

Matt Эллен

17:33

thank 'ee

simchona

@Carlo_R Why do you want to talk to me so badly

Carlo_R.

@simchona Ok, I give up.

@simchona I cannot speak better. Im studing english only since a month

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I could take the direct approach. It's quite risky.

simchona

@Carlo_R Your point being...

Jez

@KitFox i missed the earlier peek show, can you repost? :-P

Carlo_R.

17:36

@simchona What does "Your point being..." mean?

simchona

@Kit I went into VS the other day with the new puppy. Found out I've been in the wrong size for a while

@Carlo_R Never mind.

Carlo_R.

"never mind" = "Your point being..." ?????

simchona

@Carlo_R No. "Never mind" as in "I don't feel like explaining everything I'm saying"

Carlo_R.

@simchona Thank you for your improve to my answer. You are so kind.

@simchona I love you.

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R it essentially means "What is your point?" or "Why are you saying that?"

simchona

17:42

@Carlo_R No.

Jez

dorsetcereals.co.uk/crunch/toffee-pecans

I just bought some of them, because Tesco didn't have

dorsetcereals.co.uk/crunch/strawberries-raspberries

they taste pretty nice

Matt Эллен

my dad has that

Mitch

Why are there -two- kinds of 'star' (one on the left (star as interesting) and one on the right (star as useful/interesting for the transcript))?

simchona

@Mitch I never noticed that

Carlo_R.

@MattЭллен Thank you matt. You are the best. Are you a girl?

simchona

17:44

@Carlo_R Why does gender matter so much to you?

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R are you a girl?

Carlo_R.

No, I'm a boy.

The boy are interested in the girl, often

Matt Эллен

I am not a girl

simchona

@Carlo_R But not always. And no flirting in this chat.

Carlo_R.

@simchona It is naturally

Matt Эллен

17:45

@simchona indeed!

Carlo_R.

@Matt Hey Matt, do you know that 'male' in Italian language mean 'bad'?

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R Oh! that makes sense. Mal in French is bad

simchona

@Carlo_R That doesn't make sense

Matt Эллен

quite, the copula shouldn't be followed only by an adverb

Carlo_R.

@simchona can you send me your photography?

Matt Эллен

17:49

@Carlo_R stop.

simchona

@Carlo_R You mean my photo? No.

Matt Эллен

that is not appropriate

Carlo_R.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

simchona

@Carlo_R That's not me.

Carlo_R.

You are better, I think.

simchona

17:49

@Carlo_R What are you even talking about

Matt Эллен

kitten or breasts? it's a tough choice

Carlo_R.

@simchona Obviously, I'm not seriously

simchona

@Carlo_R So? Then don't ask

@Carlo_R I refuse to deal with a second stalker via this chat

@Carlo_R You need to know nothing about my personal life, looks, gender, etc.

Jez

@KitFox missed it again lol

KitFox

@Jez Oh FFS. Pay attention!

Carlo_R.

17:52

@simchona I am learning English language, not stalking

Jez

ok

ah

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R a photo of Simchona won't help you to learn English.

Carlo_R.

@KitFox why you removed the photo?

simchona

@MattЭллен Thank you.

KitFox

@Carlo_R Because I have no need to leave it up.

Jez

17:53

@KitFox your nipples protrude rather proudly

KitFox

@Jez I know my tits aren't as big as what's-her-name's but presentation is important.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox were I that water services guy...

simchona

@MattЭллен Photos of me have caused way too many issues for me

Carlo_R.

@simchona when I said "I'm not seriously", I referred to my preceding "You are better"

simchona

@Carlo_R Just stop. I don't want to share any personal details with you. I don't want to hear "I love you" or "you are better". Both are irrelevant to me, and to EL&U.

Jez

17:56

@KitFox I know. Hers were presented rather impressively

Carlo_R.

Ok. Sorry.

Jez

the sexiest kind of breasts say to me "I don't need a bra. I'm young and purt enough that they're bare."

Matt Эллен

@simchona heh. lets hope things don't go in that direction

KitFox

@Jez If you consider squashed "impressive," then yes.

Matt Эллен

@Jez indeed :)

KitFox

17:57

Indeed indeed.

Pert young breasts.

Matt Эллен

mmmmmm

Carlo_R.

@simchona - is it possible to remove a CW from my answer?

KitFox

Speaking of slightly firm carrots...

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

I should finish writing this recipe.

Matt Эллен

17:58

I should write this email

Carlo_R.

'Ello, Robusto. How are you?

Jez

is carrots a metaphor for breasts where you are?

KitFox

No.

simchona

@matt yeah one was enough

KitFox

Oh crap. It's 2:00. Gotta get the boy up and dressed and pick up the other from school.

Later.

Matt Эллен

18:02

cya @Kit!

Jez

I could've sworn I saw a question here the other day on the etymology of "jerry rigged"

or maybe just "jerry"

Matt Эллен

jury rigged?

Jez

maybe im thinking of wikipedia.

Carlo_R.

@simchona - this is a technical question: is it possible to remove a CW from my answer?

Jez

List of terms used for Germans

There are many alternative ways to describe the people of Germany, though in English the official designated nationality as well as the standard noun is German. (see also demonym). During the early Renaissance, "German" implied that the person spoke German as a native language. Until German unification, people living in what is now Germany were named for the region they lived in, examples include Bavarians, Brandenburgers and Hanoverians. Some other terms are humorous or derogatory slang, and used mainly by people from other countries, although they can be used in a self-deprecating way by...

wikipedia said Jerry-rigged was an adapted form of jury-rigged, from WW2

Carlo_R.

18:06

@Jez - Is German derived from Latin?

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R I do not believe it is. Once something is CW then that's the end of it

Jez

@CarloR yep

> 1250–1300; Middle English germain < Old French < Latin germānus, derivative of germen; see germ

Carlo_R.

@MattЭллен :)

@Jez I referred to German language.

Is German language derived from Latin?

Jez

like most European languages it has many roots in Latin

the influence of Latin on europe was amazingly broad actually

Carlo_R.

@Jez But I do not understand why the English language and Italian language are so different even if both are derived from latin?

Jez

18:12

because (contrary to those who worry about language atrophy) people's languages diverge remarkably quickly and substantially over time

What surprises me is how different Italian is from Latin itself

it seems about as far from Latin as other European languages. then again English is very far from Old English

Cerberus

@Carlo_R English is not derived from Latin: it just borrowed a great many words from Latin. Italian is a direct descendent of Latin.

@Jez Yeah it's not that different from Latin.

Keep in mind that it was greatly influenced by Vulgar Latin, which is often quite different from literary Latin.

Carlo_R.

@Cerberus Therefore, German language is not derived from Latin, too?

Jez

@Cerberus when you borrow enough words, it feels derived.

Matt Эллен

the structure of English is closer to it's Norse roots than Latin, really

Jez

half the time I look up a word in a dictionary and it's from Latin. Or French... which came from Latin. When you consider that much of Latin came from Greek too and many of our words come from Greek, we have a HUGE amount of Latin/Greek roots.

structure

> late Middle English < Latin structūra,

English

> before 900; Middle English; Old English Englisc, equivalent to Engle (plural) the English (compare .......... Latin Anglī; see Angle)

Matt Эллен

18:18

if I have a Norwegian architect, but use Italian bricks, the building will look Norwegian with an Italian front

Carlo_R.

@Jez I did not never noticed this root of English!

Cerberus

@Carlo_R True. It started with the Indo-European language family. This family and the people who spoke it originated in central Asia, and spread over much of Europe and western Asia. In the process, it changed, and various regional branches developed. Proto-Germanic is one such branch, Latin another.

@Jez You could say many words are derived, but most of the grammar is not.

Jez

true

Cerberus

@Jez I wouldn't say that much of Latin came from Greek.

@Jez But then Angli was probably derived from a Germanic word used by these people themselves or their neighbours.

Jez

perihelium

> Greek peri- peri- + hḗli ( os ) sun + -on neuter noun suffix, on the model of perigee; earlier in the Neo-Latin form perihelium

sun

> before 900; Middle English sun, sonne, Old English sunne; cognate with German Sonne, Old Norse sunna, Gothic sunno; akin to Old Norse sōl, Gothic sauil, ...... Latin sōl ( see solar), ...... Greek hḗlios ( see helio-), Welsh haul, Lithuanian saũlė, Polish słońce

Cerberus

18:23

What are you trying to say?

Jez

that English always seems to ultimately go back to latin and greek apart from the occasional oddity like giraffe

Cerberus

Sun does not come from Greek or Latin.

Jez

why does the etymology seem to suggest that it comes from sol

Cerberus

It is related to its Greek and Latin sister forms, but not descended from them.

Jez

hmm

Cerberus

18:25

Both were derived from Proto-Indo-European.

Jez

i see

Cerberus

That's why they look alike.

Just as Greek and Latin are not descended from one another.

Matt Эллен

mmmmm PIE

Cerberus

"Cognate" just means that they have a common ancestor: it usually means one is not derived from the other, or it would say "from" or "derived from" instead.

What kind of PIE?

simchona

@carlo in your answer, stop saying one is preferable. That's just your opinion

2

Q: Correct usage of "awhile"

I've seen "awhile" defined as "for a time," and I've seen examples like "Go play awhile" and "stay awhile." But what about the phrases, "Do you want your salad awhile?" or "Would you like your coffee awhile or with your meal?" They seems to define "awhile" as "while you wait" instead of "for a ti...

word-usage

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:32

@Mitch vergiß es? Hat sich erledigt? The latter was courtesy of Jez, actually.

Robusto

@Cerberus Rhubarb or peach.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Chicken, spinach and gruyere cheese

Jez

heh

has something taken care of itself

Cerberus

I see two winners!

Jez

@RegDwight speaking of that do you have time for any more translation?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:36

@Carlo_R German is a Germanic language. So is English. Italian is a Romance language. So is French. There's a handy site that has tons of additional information. In Italian, too. Use it. Please.

Lingue romanze

Le lingue romanze o lingue latine o lingue neolatine sono le lingue derivate dal latino, che hanno nel mondo come primo e unico idioma oltre un miliardo di persone (quasi un miliardo e 200 milioni di parlanti, precisamente: 1.186.048.431), che, usandole nelle diverse parlate anche come seconda o altra lingua, arrivano al miliardo e mezzo di individui (oltre un sesto dell'umanità) che parlano questi linguaggi, che si posizionano almeno al secondo posto (secondo alcuni al primo posto fra qualche anno) come sistema comune di lingue parlate nel mondo. Esse sono l'evoluzione diretta non del ...

Jez

Think I'm on Reg's ignore list. :-(

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Haha. Well, take a number. I first have to answer Carlo's OVER 9000 pings.

Jez

I was first.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well I kind of have more time on weekends.

On workdays I must play Zelda.

Sorry mate.

Matt Эллен

:D

Jez

18:39

I could undertand Mad TV 2, but Zelda?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You mean Super Smash TV? That's for SNES.

Jez

why would I mean Super Smash TV?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Because Mad TV 2 is no game I have heard of.

Jez

you've been translating it for some time

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And Super Smash TV is awesome juice.

@Jez OH.

Well you see, I never got to translate the title.

Jez

18:42

heh, that doesnt need translation

RegDwight Ѭſ道

For all I know it's titled Sarah Jessica Parker checks out Matthew Broderick's Underwear VII.

Matt Эллен

voted best game of 2003

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Best of schlecht.

Jez

what was

Matt Эллен

Sarah Jessica Parker checks out Matthew Broderick's Underwear VII.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:43

Jez

1

Q: Avatars in chat keep flashing black?

I'm getting weird visual issues with the chat avatars that I didn't used to. Some of them will now 'flash black' roughly once every 10 seconds, eg. the third from left here: In addition, for some icons when I hover over them, they become "not washed out" (correct), but when I unhover them, t...

bug chat gravatar avatar

this bug is causing flashing-avatar irritation on my fucking screen.

and the SEN staff don't even acknowledge it

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I actually saw that question.

But never that behaviour.

simchona

I may have found new reason to use the "ignore" feature in chat

Robusto

@simchona Does it dice vegetables now? (Hmm ... maybe in a manner of speaking ...)

simchona

@Robusto It creates smoothies. Of my brain.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:48

Diced vegetables are the best thing since sliced bread.

Sliced brain, too.

Robusto

@simchona Mmmmmmm ... brain smoothies drool

Jez

but it doesn't eliminate cheesy puns. good if you want cheese, i guess.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto No zombies in this chat.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 You can't stop us. You can only hope to contain us.

simchona

@Robusto I just want to hit my head against the wall a few times

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:50

@Robusto Well you can't spell "Russia" without "us", so I suppose we already contain you.

Robusto

@simchona That is aiming a little low, I think. Why stop with a few?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona Seven. For best results, eight.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Except you have to translate it into English to do that.

Jez

@RegDwight how would you translate this?

> Sie sehen nun einen mutierten Bewohner der amerikanischen Everglades. Ursprünglich eine harmlose kleine Schlange, jetzt eine durch segensreiche Genexperimente hervorge- rufene Kampfmaschine mit wirklich außergewöhnlichen Fähigkeiten. Nicht nur einige hypnotische Kräfte, sondern auch der wirklich treffende Blick zeichnet diesen Kämpfer aus.

simchona

@Robusto He induces more than that, yes

Carlo_R.

18:51

@simchona :)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You are looking at a mutant inhabitant of the American Everglades.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 And a nun. Don't forget the nun.

Jez

@RegDwightѬſ道 and the other sentences?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Originally a harmless little snake, now a killing machine created by genetic experiments, with really extraordinary capabilities.

@Jez you are like Carlo.

2

Gimme time, man. I'm translating on the fly.

Jez

oh, thought you'd do it in one go.

simchona

18:54

@RegDwightѬſ道 Watch out if he starts asking for your photo

Jez

I do like ham, and bacon.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Jez Well then you'd still be waiting, consulting crystal balls if I were off to play Zelda yet.

Robusto

@simchona Oh, btw, can you send me a bunch of your photos (preferably in compromising positions), then come over and do all my work, plus send me surprise presents from time to time?

I figure it never hurts to ask.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Jez The defining feature of this warrior is not only hypnotical capabilities, but also a really sharp vision.

Okay I have no idea what they mean in the last sentence.

It's not really vision. It's a glance, a look.

Jez

hmm

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:56

And not really sharp, but rather hitting.

As in, a target.

Jez

sharp glare?

powerful glare?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dunno. Treffen means to meet, or to hit.

I suppose you'll have to fight him to know for sure.

Jez

you dont fight them, you watch them fight

Matt Эллен

targeting vision? like some sort of auto-lockon capability?

Jez

this thing looks like a big worm with a single big eyeball

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:58

@MattЭллен nope.

It's really poorly worded.

Treffend, the participle, lives a life of its own.

Jez

quite cool, the English version will have much better language quality :-P

actually fansubs usually do

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It basically means passend. Something that fits, suits. Is spot on.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…