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00:01
Yay! Super-awful parents on Supernanny tonight!
@Mitch Okies, (Oklahoma-ies? Okeefenokees?) Thanks, Mitch!
@Cerberus Thank you so much Cerberus. That means a great deal coming from you, as another, well, animal-ish sort of avatar. Seriously, thank you for your reassurance and encouragement.
@FeralOink Woof! I'm feral too, you know. Or at least I try to be, what with guarding my reputation and all.
@KitFox Oh I love those.
Feral fennec! snap
@KitFox And you as well, I appreciate it. I kept on seeing part of his reply to me, even though it had been deleted by moderators, it kept showing up in the red drop down box, I just saw part of it, something condescending, and it was very annoying!
Glad we talked that comment out of your drop-down box.
00:05
@Cerberus Oh, I know you're feral! You are perhaps the ultimate in feral! I have big curly tusks, but there are 3 THREE of you, so to speak!
Yay! Thanks.
Awfully beastly of you.
A 24-year-old mother of three.
Wow.
And obviously has no good role models.
If only there weren't commercials for Giuliana & Bill.
@Cerberus Yes, that was a relief to see it go away. I also did not have the pleasure of seeing his comments before they were removed by mod's. Happily. Usually I try to hunt that stuff down. This time I didn't even want to know, and was VERY grateful not to have seen.
@KitFox Wasn't that actress on Seaworld named Jeanne Trippellhorn or something like that?
Yeah understandable. There are just some idiots on this website who are insensitive to the line between a heated debate and personal insults. Perhaps we should assume they are autistic and forgive them...
@FeralOink You mean Waterworld?
00:11
@Cerberus I don't believe in the Aspberger's thing. If I did, I would have to acknowledge that I was afflicted, as well as everyone in my family, plus everyone I've ever dated, and most of friends and co-workers.
At that point, I would be inclined to say that the rest of the world had a problem, and needed to adjust to us, rather than vice versa ;o)
@FeralOink Hmmm...well, Asperger is the good kind of autism, they say, the one that gives back what it takes in a different form.
Can I be a feral python?
Ask the Oink.
@FeralOink, can I be a feral python?
Oh, yes, DO ask the Oink! I like that!
Yes most certainly yes!
00:13
Yay!
Feral python!!! Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!
Join the ranks of the feral ones!
(If you aren't a programmer, there's a language called Python, which is what my gravatar is the icon for).
Yes, I'd heard of Python, but didn't know it had its own little insignia. I did't realize that that was the Python symbol!
I was just looking at, and not understanding, ummm, one sec, this:
@Matt You are back!!
Hm, I don't actually program with Python often.
I was just getting started when I got a job that delayed my progress.
00:17
@KitFox ohai!
yes, just looking at email before bed
@Mahnax But you like pythons!!!! Feral ones ;o)
Hi @Matt! Long time no see!
@FeralOink Haha, sure?
Hi @Mahnax - I've been hinding
Oh JoJo's bringing the hammer down! Go JoJo!
@MattЭллен Hinding?
@KitFox awaits large thud
00:19
@Mahnax either I misspelt hiding, or I have been doing something with hind
@MattЭллен I shall assume the former…
Come on, Brandy! You're twelve years younger than me! Stick with it! You can do it!
Hi @Matt and also bye Matt et. al. Thank you everyone, you are kind. I think I'll just delete those to snippets of code before I leave though. Indiscretion got the better of me. I mean, exuberance. I still get nervous with IM. It must be the Aspberger's.... sigh
@MattЭллен A hind? Or a hart perhaps?
Arggg TWO two 2 snippets of code, not "to"
00:20
Put that little girl on the naughty chair! Show her who's MOMMY!
Roll up the Rim is over… sniffle
@KitFox heh, either works for me :D But neither occurred
Probably for the best.
Here's the trouble: Supernanny and Law & Order are on at the same time.
are you watching them on split screen?
No.
Hence the trouble.
00:25
I see
Hello @Ben.
Welcome back!
Where have you been?
Lawnmower man got his butt off the couch and played with his children! Wahoo!
I came back home yesterday.
I'm watching the first episode of the Game of Thrones.
00:27
@Cerberus I have been on holiday. Didn't I tell you about it over tea and scones?
@Cerberus where were you? Globe-trotting? I can imagine you as a jet setter :D
I remember you were looking at trains and such a while ago? I probably left before you so I didn't catch your announcement that you were departing.
@Cerberus Oh! I saw that. In fact, I've only seen the pilot.
I was in a cottage in the woods, and at my parents.
@MattЭллен Did you like it?
I was also visiting my parents
Ah OK.
00:29
@Cerberus yes. Gruesome and intriguing and Norsey
Yay! Brandy did it!
I like TGoT(?) so far (halfway through the first episode), but it is a bit slow. Information density: low.
Norsey as in Norse?
Yeah, so, cold.
@KitFox she smacked her child?
00:30
Information density: low usually = entertainment value: high.
@MattЭллен No. Broke her will.
@Cerberus indeed and menly men
Which is a lot harder.
@KitFox Hmm but I mean "information" in a broad sense; as long as lots of things happen, it is information; but a long scene where people walk from one place to another without significant dialogue I count as low, and hence boring.
and womenly women
Have you seen Gosford Park?
00:32
I have not
That is high density for me.
New characters are introduced all the time, lots of dialogues, many people all the time, very hard to keep up.
What didn't help was that the sound was bad/soft and the television small and far away.
I see. Don't you find the pilot like that? All the characters are new
In any case, the Game looks cool.
@MattЭллен Oh I didn't see it.
The game?
Just watching the first episode.
The Game of Thrones.
00:34
The Game was good.
Oh! I don't think the actual game is in the pilot
I mean, the movie with Michael Douglas and Sean Penn.
that's not in the Game of Thrones pilot either
Huh?
The actual game?
I don't know much about the books/series, by the way.
I thought the "game" was just a metaphor for the intrigues?
Shit. I just lost the Game.
00:38
now I am just confused
@KitFox What are you doing?
damn you @Kit
@KitFox NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
@Cerberus Being a middle schooler at the current time.
I'd gone months without losing the game!
I had gone at least a month or two.
More, peut-être.
00:40
@Mahnax What?
None of you are making sense.
@Cerberus doesn't feel like explaining, leaves it to @Kit or @Matt and returns to studying
@KitFox Oh haha.
@Cerberus some might say you're better off not knowing
@MattЭллен Too late!
00:41
I had heard of that.
@Mahnax I often am
But you underestimate the powers of my forgetfulness.
True! I had forgotten how forgetful you are
Also,
The Game is a 1997 neo-noir psychological thriller film directed by David Fincher, starring Michael Douglas and Sean Penn, and produced by Polygram Filmed Entertainment. It tells the story of an investment banker who is given a mysterious gift: participation in a game that integrates in strange ways with his life. As the lines between the banker's real life and the game become more uncertain, hints of a large conspiracy become apparent. The Game was well received by critics like Roger Ebert and major periodicals like The New York Times, though Leonard Maltin found the film "unusually mea...
@MattЭллен He must be a master of the game.
Aye. He plays and does not play at the same time. Game zen, almost
Damnit
Right! I need my sleep. toodle pip :)
00:48
Bye!
Bye!
Hmm I wonder why a dignitary hugs a lady at the official welcome, the wife of his host.
Surely that is not done.
Interesting. I don't remember Supernanny having a babysitter section before.
The real question is whether I should stop at nine and start playing San Andreas instead.
Or maybe Little Big Planet.
Ach! Stupid non-glasses wearing bitch wearing glasses frames without lenses in them! Faker! punches woman in face
I hate it when people do that.
Looks like the improvement in Brandy's parenting really helped her marriage too.
Nice job Doyles!
Huh. Now a Supernanny where Mommy actually smacks her kids.
And they wonder why their kids beat on each other.
Of course, it looks like she must have had her first kid when she was seventeen.
01:03
So many problems.
Jesus. What are people thinking when they hit their kids? Don't they have any idea how messed up that is?
2
smack "Don't hit your sister!"
I mean, what do you think you are teaching your kids?
headdesk
Well, she's already made the mistake of giving way too general of a command.
"Clean your room or I will smack you."
Ouch, that's bad.
She should reward good behaviour rather than punishing bad so harshly. (I think; I have no experience.)
Well, a 4-year-old doesn't even know how to do "clean room".
It's too general; they would immediately feel overwhelmed and confused.
Better: "OK, put all of your dirty clothes in the basket."
"Put your toys on the shelf."
Etc, etc.
Now you know.
01:09
That makes sense.
And it wouldn't hurt to offer the carrot instead of the stick: "If you can pick up all of your clothes in ten minutes, you can press the buttons on the washing machine!"
Or something.
Make it fun. Stop yelling and hitting constantly.
It's kind of a no-brainer.
It's just Supernanny affecting my judgement, I'm sure, but it seems like lots of parents forget that children are not born knowing how to behave.
That's why parents are supposed to teach them.
Yes, they must learn.
A four-year-old can't be expected to get things right every time, either.
Even if they are well-taught.
@KitFox Wouldn't have worked for my kids.
@Mahnax Exhibit A: My eldest son.
@Robusto Well, did you try smacking them around?
@KitFox Of course not.
01:16
@Robusto Well, then. I'm surprised about this Supernanny, but I guess it is a good lesson for parents that think spanking and yelling and grabbing and soaping mouths is a good plan.
My eldest was prey to the counting ultimatum: "I'm going to count to five. One, two, three ..." And he was always caught up or whatever by five. He never called my bluff. When my second came along, counting didn't mean a thing. "... thirty-four .... thirty-five ... I'm really serious ... thirty-six ..."
Hahaha. Same in this family.
@KitFox IDK what Supernanny is.
Oh, it's where they take a British "nanny" Jo Frost and introduce her to an awfully dysfunctional family and she straightens them out.
It always makes me feel like a good parent.
Ugh, and they use "fuck" too.
Is that also in the book?
So crude and anachronistic, I would say.
Most especially for a King with a good British accent.
01:20
@Robusto I should've said "same in our family." My eldest loves to behave. The youngest loves to push the envelope.
Envelop. Envelope. Huh.
@Cerberus with British accent: Why, you disgusting fellow, what the fuck do you think you're up to hereabouts.
@Robusto Hereabouts? I didn't know you lived in the ehm whatever this fantastic kingdom is called.
@KitFox Anyway, I don't believe in hitting children. That's not discipline, that's lack of discipline.
@Cerberus hereabouts adverb near this place: there is little natural water hereabouts.
What do you mean?
What does it sound like I mean?
01:25
I have no idea.
Why is a raven like a writing desk?
@Robusto I agree, and it sets a terrible example. Violates trust, teaches aggression, and confuses children about what love feel like.
I was jokingly commenting on your placing yourself and possibly me inside the realm of the series by using "hereabouts".
What's the link for WMT chat? I want to look something up.
Hang on, I'll get it.
@Robusto Ayup.
Are you drunk?
@Cerberus Anyway, I'll repeat my question: Why is a raven like a writing desk?
@Cerberus Who?
01:30
Rob.
I think I've heard the raven thing before, but I don't remember.
And I'm watching the Game.
@Cerberus Which game?
Holy crap. Three hours to discipline that kid. Good job not smacking your kid, lady!
And no, I'm not drunk. Why do you suppose I might be?
Of Thrones. That's where the "fuck" came from.
I really wonder whether that is also in the book.
Which I haven't read.
@Cerberus Ah. Well, good luck with that. I read the books. Wish I hadn't bothered.
And yes, there's plenty of profanity in the books. More than the TV series, actually.
GoT is like LoR except the dwarves have cocks and know how to use them.
01:36
Aww. Mommy is learning how to show affection instead of aggression.
Well, off to TV land. Laterz.
Later!
@Robusto I like vulgar behaviour in books. Or it would be too tame. But no vulgar language. In any case, it's not that, but using a very modern slang word in a mediaeval setting.
And why didn't you like the books?
I'm off. Good night!
Night!
01:49
Bye!
@Robusto I haven't the slightest idea.
 
1 hour later…
02:53
Hmm I've watched two episodes, and it is addictive, but...
Not very deep so far.
It may yet develop.
Good luck!
These Physics questions are making sense.
Good.
Yes, thankfully. I hope to be well-prepared for my test tomorrow.
 
1 hour later…
03:59
You know, if you had a book and you didn't understand a question, I would so be helping you!
My brain lobes are itching.
Haha.
The funny thing is, I can tutor in a subject that I know less about than my pupil.
Well, given something to go off of, many people can.
As long as we have a book and a bit of time, and dialogue.
Yes.
Myself included, unless the level is way higher than what I'm used to.
04:00
The book will be a guide.
Yeah.
And you are the interpreter.
Yes, in a way.
Two know more than one always.
I just semi-watched a very powerful video.
Hmm I feel like I'm speaking in Game-of-Thrones one-liners.
Oh?
If you'd like, I shall give you the gist.
04:02
I am intrigued.
It was about 33 minutes long, so I was working and listening to it.
@Cerberus It's related to religion, be warned.
Related, but not focused on.
For the video to really apply, I need you to answer one question: do you support the right to abort a child?
Ooh, I'm scared.
Yes, I do.
Okay, well. Take yourself back to WWII. Was Hitler a bad guy?
Heh.
Bad? Sure.
Okay. If you knew what he would do, but before he did it, would you shoot him, given the opportunity?
04:05
If I were sure and there would be no consequences for myself and I had the courage, yes.
A step further. Would you kill him knowing that you would be put to death for it?
So you value your own life more than the lives of six million Jews, as well as all of the soldiers and citizens who died in the ensuing war?
Yes.
I have to be honest.
Will you admit that that is selfish?
04:06
Yes.
But people die sooner or later.
Huh.
I have questions about English language. I am learning present future - I will and I will be and question form such as will ... verb and will ... be ?
Well, people are mortal.
If you were captured by the soldiers, who pointed a gun at your head, and told you to get into a bulldozer and push some dirt into a hole filled with living Jews, would you do it?
If you say no, they will shoot you, of course.
@Anonymous Sorry, I don't understand your question...
04:08
I don't know when to use be and not use be, for example, will the plane be on time?, will the plane on time?
@Anonymous Use "will the plane be on time?".
I am not sure when I should/should not use be in the question.
Will they at the party or will they be at the party?
@Mahnax Ehm that's very hard. I don't know. The immediate impression of seeing those Jews makes it hard; then again, the gun makes it hard too. In reality, I'd always try to find a third option.
@Anonymous You can never use "will" without an infinitive, unless you are echoing a precious sentence.
"Will" only expresses that there is something about the future: but you still need "be" if you would use a form of "be" in the present tense.
@Cerberus Nuh-uh. No third option. Choose.
@Anonymous Are they at the party? "Are" = a form of "be", so you need "will be" if you say it in the future.
04:12
Will you be with us tonight = correct and Will you with us tonight = incorrect, right?
@Anonymous Right. Very good.
@Mahnax I really couldn't say. Rationally, it would be a coin toss. Morally, I would have to refuse. What I would actually do? No idea, I can't imagine what it would be like.
What should I search on google to read more about this topic?
@Cerberus Okay, so you would allow Hitler to live, and kill those people, but morally, you would not do it yourself?
@Anonymous Modal verbs.
04:15
Thank you Cerberus :) I will read to get it down.
@Mahnax I might have to kill Hitler morally, but it is easier to let him live than actively kill the Jews.
@Cerberus Okay. When does a baby/fetus/zygote/etc. become a life?
@Anonymous Good luck! Just remember: in a full sentence, you can't use a modal verb without an infinitive; but, if the sentence echoes a previous sentence, the infinitive can be left out. To be safe, always use the infinitive.
@Mahnax There is no boundary.
You just strike an arbitrary definition.
I'm not sure what you mean.
Like "when is a cup of water hot?".
04:18
Do you mean that after conception, it is life, or after birth, it is life, or neither?
And when lukewarm?
Neither, then?
I mean that life and non-life are not very clear-cut categories. There is no absolute boundary between the two, just like there is no absolute boundary between warm and hot.
So a developing foetus is a bit of a grey area.
Is there any point after which you would not support the abortion of the child?
I would be unable to pick a specific point, but I can say it would have to be somewhere in between conception and birth.
04:21
Eh, okay.
@Mahnax May I? It doesn't become life because the gametes are alive and so is their product, just as bacteria and amoebas are life.
Any point is necessarily arbitrary.
@Vitaly Okay, let's say when does it become human then.
Haha you have summoned the evil spirit!
How is your back?
@Mahnax It has always been human.
^ This. It has human genes.
04:22
I know, I shall now fail more miserably than I would have before.
That is a pretty clear genetic definition.
@Cerberus Okay, so you would support the murder of an unborn human?
16 hours ago, by Vitaly
@JasperLoy Fine, thanks.
@Mahnax "A human" is not the same as "human". So it depends on your definition of "a human".
@Vitaly OK good!
@Cerberus I should never have asked this of a philosopher.
Okay, well, when a woman has an abortion, is she killing a human or not? By your definition.
04:24
@Mahnax The position of a philosopher in this is as follows: you need to have your terms crystal clear before you can draw conclusions. Because the conclusion will have a different meaning if you have a different mental picture of what your words mean.
@Cerberus Okay, therein lies the problem, the terms are not crystal clear. So let us assume that as soon as a child is conceived it is a human being. Do you support abortion then?
@Mahnax Hmm you could say that she is, or that she isn't. This is basically the same problem as "when is it OK to abort a baby?": there is no clear answer, it is a grey area.
@Mahnax Then, yes.
@Cerberus You are condoning the murder of a human, in that case.
@Mahnax Yes, by that definition.
Although I wouldn't say killing a human is necessarily "murder" if a clump of two cells count as a human.
04:28
@Cerberus Murder = killing a human. If we are assuming that a fetus is a human, then killing the fetus is murder.
I'd rather call it killing rather than murder, because to me "murder" implies killing a person.
@Mahnax I wouldn't define murder like that: if you pick a weak definition of "a human", then killing a human is not always murder. So that would be a reason why perhaps "a human" is not the most intuitively satisfying definition.
@Cerberus Interesting.
@Vitaly Also interesting.
So the appendix is alive, and it also has human genes. Would by your definition removing an appendix be murdering a human? It should, because it has about as much autonomy and sentience as a 3-week-old foetus.
I want to make one thing clear; I am not necessarily anti-choice. I am just posing these things to get different perspectives because the video has an obvious bias.
@Mahnax Let me ask you another question. What if I cloned a foetus out of a skin cell and killed it. Would you think that is OK?
@Mahnax I know, and it is an interesting debate.
04:31
@Cerberus I don't know right now.
I'm trying to figure things out, you see.
Unfortunately, I have effectively ruined a half hour of my studying in doing so.
@Mahnax OK. And what if the foetus were fully grown and looked like a baby at birth?
Oops sorry for ruining your study time...
@Cerberus I would not support the killing then.
@Cerberus Eh, my fault. I brought it up, foolishly.
@Mahnax OK, neither would I. And I think you would allow it if it were just any ordinary skin cell, right?
@Cerberus Killing a skin cell?
Yes.
04:33
That happens all the time.
I do that all the time, yes.
True.
So yes, killing a skin cell is okay.
Oh, and by the way (I may be not getting my facts straight, but I seem to remember something along those lines) women, by your definition, “murder” humans quite regularly without any artificial intervention. The thing is, even if a woman's egg makes it to an oocyte, it doesn't necessarily lead to pregnancy. It might as well be ejected during a menstruation or some such.
@Mahnax Okay, and how do you feel about killing an ovum?
@Cerberus I don't know.
04:35
OK.
Anyways, can we finish this later?
And how about removing the genetic material from an ovum?
I really do need to study.
Hehe, sure.
Thank you.
I'm not trying to weasel my way out of this, don't get me wrong here.
04:35
Did I react as you expected, by the way?
I know.
@Cerberus For the most part, yes.
OK.
Good luck!
CU.
Thanks!
@Vitaly But they don't do that on purpose.
04:36
I'll still be here, but not chatting actively.
So I see.
Oh, okay. Good luck then.
Thanks!
@Vitaly … to a zygote*
05:01
> I've spoken to these eggs many times and they make it quite clear ... they are not a human being. — Lewis Wolpert, developmental biologist
I saw a fantastic bumper sticker last week - "say no to sex with pro-lifers".
05:42
I am also reminded of this study, which was posted on LessWrong in 2009, IIRC. In short, the degree of parental grief over their child's death follows the same curve as the reproductive potential curve of the !Kung, a hunter-gatherer people (when both are plotted against the child's age).
How on earth can a scientist measure the degree of somebody's grief?
Asking to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 actually works. If people rate the same stimulus similarly enough, the experimenter can be confident it isn't just a matter of how the person is using the scale.
I don't remember how they measured it in that specific study though.
Also, there are three sites where I have reputations of 1110, 1115 and 1122. I would like to make them equal, without posting any questions. For dealing with the 1122: does anyone have any opinions on whether it would be easier to post a really bad answer that gets 6 downvotes, or to find 12 other people's answers to downvote?
Well, I'm done studying, for now. Hurrah!
Where do I upload the paper? ifile.it has disabled anonymous upload …
@DavidWallace Can you still get 2 reps for per an approved edit of yours?
05:54
@Vitaly He has under 2k rep and I would assume that he hasn't used up his 1k potential edit rep.
Unless he is an editing fiend.
Well, there. 2-reps edits together with downvoting other people's answers should do the trick.
Ooh, I'd forgotten about editing. I'll give that a go.
My global rep graph looks quite cool, even now.
There once was a man from Peru,
Whose limericks stopped at line two.

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