English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

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00:16

0

Q: Word for "exceptionally skilled in melee combat"

I'm looking for possible adjectives describing someone as particularly skilled or gifted in melee combat - but which aren't specific to just one kind of weapon. You could say I want the melee version of "Marksman" - which you could use for throwing knives, shooting a bow or firing a gun.

single-word-requests

Færd

01:48

> 1. The fewer words, the better.
> 2. The fewer the words, the better.

Which one? Can both be grammatical?

skullpatrol

I'm used to saying the first one.

Mitch

@Færd both are OK, but the first one is more natural

Færd

OK. Thank you.

Mitch

and what @skullpatrol said

Færd

Dunno why I felt the second one was better.

It's like you're awaiting a complement of some sort? The fewer words ... , the better.

But what do I know.

Mitch

02:01

naw, it's just the pattern you use: 'the adjective1-er (NP1), the adjective2-er (NP2)'

The colder the water, the greater the shrinkage

Færd

@Mitch That's perfectly normal.

skullpatrol

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Færd

Because of the second the.

Mitch

The more money you have, the brighter shade of pink you can paint your car

the more, the merrier

Færd

All sound normal.

Except for my #1.

Mitch

02:04

that's the most normal one of all

Færd

Haha.

Mitch

the more normal it is, the more likely a native speaker is likely to say it.

or the other way around

Færd

See, all those noun phrases have some sort of a defining complement, or a definitive article.

Except for #1.

Mitch

??

complement?

Færd

I dunno what to call it.

> The more money you have

> The colder the water

Mitch

02:07

the fewer words you speak, the less people will listen

Færd

@skullpatrol Interesting.

> the fewer words you speak

But

> The fewer words ...

Mitch

the more money, the more glitter

mo' money, mo' problems

Færd

Yeah that's problematic for me.

But it's easy enough to get used to.

Mitch

the bigger the better

Færd

> ??The bigger sandwich the better.

Mitch

02:09

yeah! bigger sandwiches for everyone!

Færd

Pfft. Americans.

Mitch

I really don't like it when they put too much meat on.

@Færd haha.

so ashamed

for other Americans

Færd

Don't worry. I'm happy you don't go lavish on meat.

It's a sin to throw away meat.

Or eat too much of it, for that matter.

Mitch

I, on the other hand, am an upstanding, unimpeachable...

oops

I said the 'unimpeachable' word

Færd

Yesterday I was offered a job having to do with animal husbandry.

Don't know the common word for it.

Mitch

02:13

@Færd wait...how do you know that? Have you been looking over my shoulder while I eat?

@Færd farmer?

Færd

3 mins ago, by Mitch

I really don't like it when they put too much meat on.

Mitch

Oh haha

Færd

@Mitch Yeah, but more specific than that or agriculture.

It's about producing organic meat.

Mitch

pig farmer?

Færd

Getting livestock from nomads etc

Mitch

02:14

cattle rancher?

Færd

No pigs here

Mitch

or rather happy pigs

Færd

Maybe.

Mitch

@Færd but to do the raising and handling of animals?

Færd

Only gathering them from nomads and then butchering them and sending them to market.

I just don't feel right about it. I'm going around pontificating about how the world is coming down because of our agricultural habits.

Mitch

02:16

sheep? lamb?

Færd

And now this offer with a lot of money and promise ...

@Mitch Sheep mostly, I assume.

I tell myself if you don't do it, someone else will.

The consumerist attitude of the public should be changed, and only that will affect the producer's output.

But still doesn't feel right.

I'm not against killing animals per se, mind. Not one of those meat is murder people.

Well, it is murder, but that's not what bugs me about it.

Mitch

meat is kind of a luxury

and as the economy gets richer, the more people are able to have that luxury

Cerberus

I've just put a 1kg stew on the stove.

But carry on.

Mitch

hahaha

what kind

Cerberus

The meat is 1 kg, not the stew.

Beef.

Færd

02:25

Holy cow.

Mitch

!!!

Cerberus

Quite!

Mitch

he blessed it first

Cerberus

Beef is the worst as regards CO2, I believe.

Mitch

bigger animals

Cerberus

02:26

But pork is worse with respect to other pollution and hormones / antibiotics?

Færd

That's what I heard.

@Mitch per kilo too, I guess

Mitch

per hectare

Cerberus

I think so too, per kg.

Mitch

also

per everything?

Cerberus

That I do not know.

But it's Christmas.

Mitch

02:27

pigs are cute

Cerberus

So the cows need to die.

Mitch

have you seen the movie Babe?

Cerberus

I have, unfortunately.

At a birthday party when I was a child.

Not my birthday.

Mitch

It's the only movie I've ever cried at

Cerberus

Oh, I believe you.

You're always so very serious.

Færd

02:28

Have you seen the documentary Cowspiracy?

Mitch

not with all the cruelty of one animal on another in the barnyard hierarchy

not the ritual slaughtering of their friends

Cerberus

It's a dog's world.

Mitch

but at the end where...

Cerberus

Nay, an animal farm.

Mitch

spoiler alert...

Færd

02:29

covers eyes

Mitch

the cute little pig does it

the task

Cerberus

It does?

With whom?

Mitch

I was so happy for him I cried

Cerberus

Did it enjoy it?

Mitch

he was proud of himself

Cerberus

02:30

I don't remember anything about the film.

Mitch

with good reason

watch it again.

Færd

Should I watch this film?

Mitch

there's a lot in it

Cerberus

(No.)

Mitch

@Færd ??? what??? really??? The cows are behind it all?

Færd

02:31

OK no worries about the spoilers then. Go on.

Behind a lot of it.

Mitch

@Færd Maybe. It's not particularly halal

Færd

Huh?

Mitch

kosher?

Færd

I know, but how can a film (not) be halal?

Mitch

OK according to food cleanliness laws?

They eat shellfish in the movie?

They show a pig on film?

Færd

02:33

Haha.

So that makes it unwatchable?

I'm not that observant anyway.

Mitch

there've gotta be a few wild pigs running around the Elburz somewhere.

Cerberus

I read about the rise of the halal industry.

Færd

@Mitch Oh sure, in the northern forests.

Boars or something.

Cerberus

Until a couple of decades ago, nobody cared about e.g. halal bread or halal cheese in Muslim countries.

Mitch

@Cerberus The cows are behind it

Cerberus

02:34

But then an industry was set up, commercialising the phaenomenon.

Mitch

I heard that recently

Cerberus

Telling Muslims around the world that they should be careful about non-halal x, where x can be any kind of food.

Mitch

@Cerberus what's halal bread?

Cerberus

Where they used to only care about not eating pig meat and a few select things.

@Mitch Whatever the industry tells people.

Færd

@Cerberus They didn't.

Cerberus

02:36

And I think it might have been sponsored by Iran, but I forgot.

Færd

I'm not aware how it has been commercialized. I'm sure it has.

But that's not the only thing an observant Muslim worries about.

Halal is not just about the kind of meat, but also how the animal is slaughtered etc.

Mitch

I think that's true of Judaism also

hunting is prohibited

the animal has to be calm when slaughtered

Cerberus

I'm rereading the article.

Until 30 years ago, Muslims in France are any kind of beef.

From regular French suppliers.

They only ate ritually slaughtered beef on holidays.

That was before the rise of the industry.

Halal is like the Apple of food.

Mitch

Halal is that bad?

Cerberus

You can tell people they need it. And its quality is intangible.

It's religious.

Færd

02:41

@Cerberus That's too much generalizing. The religious laws about Halal meat have been around since more than a millennium.

And religiosity is not a black and white concept.

Mitch

2 millenia

3 even

Færd

@Mitch Yeah, they are good customers of the halal market.

Or so I heard.

Cerberus

@Færd Anthropologist Bergeaud-Blackler, who has done extensive research, and who has just written a book about it, says that's how it was 30 years ago.

Mitch

30 years is an eternity

Cerberus

Those rules were not observed; not even the strictest religious leaders in France disapproved of Muslims' eating ordinary beef.

Færd

02:43

With no detailed data to back it up?

Cerberus

I'm sure she has the data.

It's from an interview with her.

Færd

And how much of the market did France constitute anyway?

It's not like Muslims who buy halal all live in France.

@Cerberus I suspect that's wrong.

Cerberus

She says there was no international halal market until then.

Florence Bergeaud-Blackler

Florence Bergeaud-Blackler est une anthropologue française née à Bordeaux en 1964. Elle est actuellement chargée de recherche CNRS en poste à l'IREMAM d'Aix-en-Provence. == Biographie == Après une courte carrière d'informaticienne dans l'aéronautique, Florence Bergeaud-Blackler a entrepris des études en sciences sociales. Formée à l'Université de Bordeaux, elle a été chercheur à l'Université de la Méditerranée Aix-Marseille II, puis à l'Université de Manchester et puis lauréate d'une bourse Marie Curie à l'Université Libre de Bruxelles, avant d'être recrutée au Centre National de la Reche...

Centre national de la recherche scientifique

The French National Center for Scientific Research (French: Centre national de la recherche scientifique, CNRS) is the largest governmental research organisation in France and the largest fundamental science agency in Europe. In 2016, it employed 31,637 staff, including 11,137 tenured researchers, 13,415 engineers and technical staff, and 7,085 contractual workers. It is headquartered in Paris and has administrative offices in Brussels, Beijing, Tokyo, Singapore, Washington, D.C., Bonn, Moscow, Tunis, Johannesburg, Santiago de Chile, Israel, and New Delhi. == Organization == CNRS operates on the...

Færd

And then only refers to the opinion of the religious leaders in France about what is halal.

Cerberus

nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/10/13/…

Here is the interview, but it's in Dutch.

Færd

02:47

I don't know. I don't feel safe defending big companies. I'm not even sure whether they really observe the halal rules. And I don't really care if they do.

But this interview you're talking about doesn't seem sound to me at all.

Mitch

the first problem, it's in Dutch

haha ha ha ha ha hahahhahahahahha

sorry

it's late

it's later there

Cerberus

Apparently, tranquillizing the animal wasn't even forbidden in Khomeini's time.

Færd

It's too early here.

Mitch

the later it is here, the earlier it is there

Cerberus

Malaysians now frequently buy halal water.

Mitch

02:49

that's not really following physics and stuff

Cerberus

And it's beings old in Spain now as well.

This is all super new.

Mitch

@Cerberus OK. That's idiotic

Færd

@Cerberus Many old rituals as to how to treat an animal when you want to slaughter it. One of them is that.

Cerberus

It's just one out of many examples.

Færd

Some of them are compulsory conditions of the meat being halal, some others optional.

Cerberus

02:50

@Færd Where I said required, I meant forbidden.

@Færd You're presenting the situation as though ordinary practice had been been largely unchanged for centuries.

Mitch

Is kangaroo halal?

Asking for a friend

Cerberus

She says a great many things that used to be optional, and not normally observed, are now felt to be compulsory.

And a large set of new rules has been added.

The 'invention of tradition' (a common phaenomenon in any culture).

Færd

You could go thorough the fatwas of faqihs (the sources of emulation for the public) to see what their opinions was.

Largely the same.

True, some changes too.

Mitch

There are a number of recent additions to Christianity that are made up out of whole cloth

the Rapture

Færd

The fact that some Muslims who didn't used to eat halal meat are now abiding by the rule seems like a Muslim identity phenomenon.

Mitch

02:53

uh...

that's all I got.

Cerberus

amazon.com/Halal-Matters-Politics-Markets-Perspective/dp/…

> "Easily the most authoritative study of the subject, this collection of essays on halal, an ostensibly ritual designation and practice, allows us to see how it becomes the crucial category by which Muslim subjects and markets around the world are both created and understood."
- Faisal Devji, University of Oxford, UK

"We are reminded on an almost daily basis of the enormous depth of misunderstanding about Islam that seems endemic in Europe and North America. In addressing the politics and pragmatics of halal assemblages in a global context, Halal Matters shines like a small light amidst t…

Færd

They do it because they do it collectively and that gives them identity.

Cerberus

Yes.

That's essential to all big religions.

And to all big luxury brands.

Færd

Some of the rules are even stated in the Quran.

You can't eat any kind of beef if you want to abide by that.

Cerberus

I'm not surprised.

People never follow all the rules in their holy book.

Færd

03:00

@Mitch Umm, don't know. And it may depend on their denomination.

Mitch

how about sturgeon caviar?

because sturgeon has no scales, so is not halal

but the caviar!

anyway, I hope you all sold all your bitcoin last week

Cerberus

I didn't.

I forgot to buy bitcoins when they were cheap.

Mitch

the sell off has finally begun, and tulips are rotting on the docks

Cerberus

Perhaps.

Mitch

@Cerberus haha

Cerberus

03:04

It may be temporary.

Færd

@Mitch Yeah, it depends on the scales, but I don't know anything about caviar.

Cerberus

I bought and sold mine years ago.

Made a handsome profit.

Færd

@Cerberus But it's not a newfangled thing. It's been around for such a long time, and if it's in their holy book the observant ones all around the world must have observed it.

Mitch

I, for a moment this past summer, considered buying (or really exchanging) a dollar into bitcoin

Færd

There may have been regional variations, granted.

Mitch

03:04

if I had, I'd have 20 dollars today

Færd

In France or wherever.

What is bitcoin anyway.

I'm heaering it a lot these days.

Mitch

it's a currency, like any other

excpet not backed by any government

Færd

With no central bank?

Mitch

and only transferred via computer transactions. there's no physical minting.

(printing bills or stamping of coins)

Cerberus

Færd

03:07

Good. So I can pay for my online purchase in bitcoins?

Cerberus

@Færd I don't understand what you're saying here.

Mitch

because it has no government behind it, it is almost by definition not taxable.

Cerberus

Bitcoins are largely traceable.

Færd

@Cerberus You were saying they invented the halal rules to launch a lucrative business. I'm saying that's not accurate.

Mitch

also because it is all anonymous and encrypted, it attracts bad actors, like for money laundering and exchange of illegal goods

Cerberus

03:08

But, yes, they can be used to launder illegal money.

@Færd I said some rules that used to be optional were now considered essential, and others were invented.

Like the rule that you need to drink halal water (probably invented).

Mitch

someone invented the rules at some point.

Cerberus

Or that you need to eat beef from untranquillized cows (used to be optional in France, Iran, perhaps almost everywhere).

Mitch

someone said "I don't care for pork"

Cerberus

That, too.

But this is about the past three decades.

Mitch

and then others to curry favor said "Great no more pork for anybody"

then they wrote it down

halal water is so refreshing

you can almost taste the goodness

halal a coke and a smile

Færd

03:11

@Cerberus Maybe. But there were also rules that weren't optional and weren't observed by the mass producing meat business.

Cerberus

Is it like holy water that the Pope himself has bathed in?

Mitch

I'd like to teach the world halal, in perfect harmony

a mikvah

oh, I just talked to someone the other day who told me about a new way of 'selling' mikvah (a ritual bathing in Judaism)

Færd

I guess they just deemed swine filthy and ruled it haram.

Mitch

It's almost like a spa treatment, but instead if you have a life changing event, you go in for a mikvah

you get a promotion

you publish a book

something like that

Færd

So mikvah is a kind of bathing?

Cerberus

03:13

I don't know why the Jews decided not to eat pigs any more.

Mitch

@Færd yeah

Cerberus

Were they a source of disease?

Did they pollute the water?

Mitch

I can't remember if it is just for women or for anybody

Cerberus

Did they compete with some powerful priest's cow herds?

Mitch

5 mins ago, by Mitch

someone said "I don't care for pork"

Cerberus

03:14

Possibly.

Færd

All possible.

Many of them rules hinge around whether it's dirty-looking.

skullpatrol

Pigs live in filth

Færd

Yeah, that.

Mitch

or better, that other guy had a herd of pigs, and I couldn't raise any at all. just to spite myself I'll never have pigs ever again.

Spite kosher

Cerberus

Cows live in filth as well.

All food animals do.

skullpatrol

03:16

They roll in the mud.

Cerberus

Unless you let them range free.

Mitch

If you're a dog, people stink terribly

Cerberus

Other animals roll in the mud too.

Mitch

How do you keep a fish from smelling?

Cerberus

Pigs can live in forests where there is not much mud.

Mitch

03:16

keep it in the refrigerator

Færd

I don't know.

Not many pigs around to compare with cows.

skullpatrol

"You big fat pig" is an insult

Færd

And my imagination of them may well be biased.

skullpatrol

"You eat like a pig"

Mitch

pigs are cute, they can herd sheep successfully in shepherding competitions without barking or biting the sheep. it's so wonderful it'll make you cry

@skullpatrol The fact that that is an insult is an insult. to pigs.

skullpatrol

03:18

:'(

Mitch

pigs say 'you big fat pig' to each other as a complement

Færd

@Mitch And don't open the door.

Gotta run.

Bye.

skullpatrol

cya

Mitch

@skullpatrol 'you eat like a pig' to a pig just sounds ridiculous. What else would you eat like? A dog? haha that's crazy, a pig eating like a dog. Dog's are mean.

@Færd oh sure. That's the first thing you learn about refrigerators

so

so it has come to this

Cerberus

@Færd Oh, there really aren't any pigs at all in your country?

Not even for leather, or in zoos?

Mitch

03:23

pig leather? that's a thing?

skullpatrol

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Cerberus

> Pigskin is used in apparel and on seats of saddles. Buffalo, goat, alligator, snake, ostrich, kangaroo, ox, and yak skins may also be used for leather.

Kangaroo leather is used to make items that must be strong and flexible. It is the material most commonly used in bullwhips. Some motorcyclists favor kangaroo leather for motorcycle leathers because of its light weight and abrasion resistance.[11] Kangaroo leather[12] is also used for falconry jesses, soccer footwear,[13] and boxing speed bags.[14]

skullpatrol

The American football is called a pig skin.

Feeds

03:51

0

Q: Modern term for 'overwhelming information onslaught'

Grasping for a term that encapsulates the notion of struggling against and being overwhelmed by a torrent of information, which invokes 'The Paradox of Choice' or 'Choice Paralysis,' and falls under the format "a tragedy of errors;" "an embarrassment of riches:" "a ________ of information." Try...

single-word-requests phrases

skullpatrol

04:05

Wow! Putting the feed bot on ignore has really cleaned up the appearance of the chat room for me.

Cerberus

@skullpatrol Ah! There you go.

skullpatrol

04:30

:-)

Feeds

05:10

0

Q: What word can we use to refer to the dome-like street/road and bowl-like street?

I already did a research on google regarding this, but it doesn't seem to suit my expectation. I searched with the term "curved road", but it appears that it's just a road with a turning. I'm abit confused about this. Help me! The photo i attached here is bowl-like road.

single-word-requests nouns terminology

Johan Larsson

07:22

TFW your coworkers appreciate your joke 😊

Tweeted by teg4n_ on December 21, 2017 at 9:28 PM

single word for you guys

Feeds

08:23

1

Q: What is the word for the corner where ceiling and wall meet in a house?

In a square room in a house, what is the word for the corner where one of the walls meets the ceiling? I kept thinking it was a word like "eaves", but that turned out to be the overhang. I have googled a few things, but most of it is irrelevant about topics like mold.

single-word-requests expressions nouns

Feeds

08:53

0

Q: What do you call a place where you can view a specifc place?

i'm designing a small building for my university where you can come and relax and take pictures and most importantly,view the neighboring building through a lens "(which is a historical site). So,can you guys tell me what would be the right name to call it by?

single-word-requests terminology

Educ

09:20

Good morning, everyone.

skullpatrol

11:47

heya

Færd

@Cerberus I don't remember having seen any pigs or pig products in my life. I've most likely seen boars or swine in zoos as a child.

But the only animal I can remember from our school trips was a male bear who was put in seclusion because of the crazy fits it threw.

CowperKettle

12:49

> Never flinch,
But still, unscrupulously epic, catch
Upon a burning lava of a song,
The full-veined, heaving, double-breasted Age:
That, when the next shall come, the men of that
May touch the impress with reverent hand, and say
'Behold,–behold the paps we all have sucked!
That bosom seems to beat still, or at least
It sets ours beating. This is living art,
Which thus presents, and thus records true life.'

What is the meaning of paps here?

I'm afraid to post this as a question for fear of being booted to Literature

tchrist

14:45

Two heterosexual Irish men marry to avoid inheritance tax on property.

Just went you thought politics could make for strange bedfellows, enter taxes.

Mitch

"A silent boy at the far side of the room was exhibiting odd repetitive movements with his hands and legs; all typical signs of institutionalisation." https://www.wearelumos.org/media/2017/12/18/my-experience-visiting-institutions-moldova/

Tweeted by lumos on December 22, 2017 at 5:02 PM

Feeds

15:22

0

Q: Single word closest to 'I never let schooling interfere with my education'

'I never let schooling interfere with my education' A Mark Twain quote. What can be a single word to describe this quote/quality? (I'm thinking of using it in a college app) Thanks :)

single-word-requests phrases quotes

-1

Q: What is the difference between phlegm, mucus, and snot?

I'm clueless. I googled this and found little to no help. So, what is the difference between the three in language, not in medical terminology.

single-word-requests meaning word-usage

Færd

15:46

@Mitch sighs

The article is quite long though. Maybe I'll read it later.

Færd

15:58

@CowperKettle Umm you mean what it symbolizes? Because, as for their literal meaning, I think it clearly means nipple or teat.

And it's about how a second generation of musicians or artists regard the roots which they stemmed from, and how although those days are gone, the same spirit lives on through the artists of today.

So an era resulting in another era is likened to a mother giving birth to offspring. I dunno if song, art, etc are emblematic of other things.

CowperKettle

16:28

I agree, but pap is quite far from nipple in meaning

Færd

16:41

It's not. Not in the context when people suck on it.

> and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder.

(The Great Gatsby)

Argh I could so use a pap right now.

Faheem Mitha

17:59

@CowperKettle I concur that it clearly means nipple in the quoted context.

"pap" has now developed some secondary usages, but they are not relevant here.

"nipple", perhaps surprisingly, doesn't have any significant secondary usages I'm aware of.

@CowperKettle Who wrote this? I got one hit that suggests it might be Elizabeth Barrett Browning.

Feeds

18:40

0

Q: A translation for the Bulgarian word "колбас", less specific than "sausage"

In Bulgarian we have the word "колбас" (kolbas) which means roughly "cooked meat, almost always with additives, usually ground, usually wrapped in an intestine or in something else". English terms that denote kinds of "kolbas" include: Sausage Salami Bacon Ham But online dictionaries transla...

single-word-requests translation

tchrist

@skullpatrol That does nothing to clean up the appearance of the actual ELU site.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Wow vs Whoa, what is the difference between them in the US? by Larry on english.SE

Valentin Drozdov

18:59

@tchrist hello!

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…