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Cerberus
Cerberus
00:16
@Færd Your second example doesn't sound right to me.
@Ivan From outer space?
 
2 hours later…
Færd
Færd
02:44
@Mitch Let's say 60% of all arrests were due to public drinking. That's a majority: (1) They were mostly arrested for public drinking. Now suppose 40% are due to public drinking, 30% due to drink driving and the rest because of other offenses. Then that's not a majority bet its count is still the highest: (2) They were ?most arrested for public drinking (than for any other offense).
@Cerberus Yeah, I guess you're right. That was kind of a long shot. I hoped to express different meanings analogous to these:
> 1. They all talked, but mostly you talked. (=more than all others combined)
> 2. They all talked a lot, but you talked (the) most. (=more than any of them, but not necessarily all of them combined)
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
may I help?
Færd
Færd
Of course! Please do.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
which question?
Færd
Færd
Ah.
8 hours ago, by Færd
> 2. Men were most arrested due to public drinking.
Does this mean anything to you?
Do you think it's grammatical?
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
sounds kinda awkward
I would say, most of the men were arrested for public drinking
Færd
Færd
02:50
@skullpatrol It does. But I thought maybe it could pass by a narrow technical margin?
@skullpatrol Yeah, but that's not what this is supposed to mean.
It's supposed to mean that those who were arrested for public drinking numbered higher than those who were arrested for any other offense.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
So you're comparing them to women?
Færd
Færd
Forget women for now! :))
Like 40% public drinking, 30% murder, 30% other. All men.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
ok
Færd
Færd
I'm not sure if it can pull off that meaning though.
Technically, it's supposed to. But practically, maybe not.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
Men are mostly arrested for public drinking; as compared to other offences.
Færd
Færd
02:55
Doesn't that mean public drinking arrests count higher than 50% of the total?
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
Not necessarily.
Færd
Færd
Hmm
Not sure if I agree.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
Public drinking is the number one offence for men.
Færd
Færd
Mostly means more than not. were mostly arrested for X means more were arrested for X than not X.
At least here it does, i reckon.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
More men are arrested for public drinking than any other offence.
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:01
@Færd The problem is that most before arrested has most modify arrested only.
Which turns it into a degree of arrestedness, which is semantically impossible.
Færd
Færd
@Cerberus Good point. Do you think it can be remedied by changing its place?
Cerberus
Cerberus
user image
Færd
Færd
> Men were arrested most due to public drinking.
?
Cerberus
Cerberus
I don't see it happening.
Færd
Færd
Shame.
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:07
user image
Færd
Færd
It could save a lot of words.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I think a lot is necessary here for the desired effect.
There is some kind of comparison of objects going on.
Færd
Færd
> They all talked, but you talked (the) most.
No?
Cerberus
Cerberus
That could very well be, you talked more than the others combined, I think.
I don't know any more.
Færd
Færd
> Everyone talked, but you talked (the) most?
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:09
Have been staring at it for too long.
Færd
Færd
Even this one?
Haha. OK
Cerberus
Cerberus
Not the everyone one.
Færd
Færd
I guess not even the one before the everyone one.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I think the all one could be ambiguous.
The every one is distributive and hence unambiguous (no more than the others combined).
Each and every are distributive.
All is mostly not distributive.
Færd
Færd
Practically ambiguous, yes.
But read as a technical logical statement, I guess you need mostly to imply more than others combined.
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:12
Why?
I don't know what a "t. l. s." is.
Færd
Færd
Something whose logical implication is meant to be accurately processed.
I dunno like a formula. Not like something you say and hear offhand.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Then you need either each/every or combined.
Færd
Færd
I don't think so. But we're repeating ourselves.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I don't like "mostly you talked" in any case (too colloquial).
Færd
Færd
How would you rephrase it?
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:16
You talked more than (any of) the others (combined)?
Or: most of the time, you were talking.
Færd
Færd
Any of doesn't sit well with combined, does it?
Cerberus
Cerberus
It's either/or.
Færd
Færd
OK.
Then those two are different statements.
Only the combined one is the same is most of the time, you were talking.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Yes, I would chose one of the parentheses to express either one or the other.
Færd
Færd
OK
Cerberus
Cerberus
03:19
I answered more than you asked for.
Færd
Færd
Kind of you.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Oh, 'tis nothing.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
::clap clap clap::
Færd
Færd
Gotta go. See you.
skullpatrol
skullpatrol
cya pal
Færd
Færd
03:21
@skullpatrol Hey I'm not convinced yet
Thank you both.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Bai!
 
2 hours later…
Færd
Færd
05:52
Tehran shook last night by the way.
Next time a couple notches higher on the Richter scale and it'll easily be the disaster of the century.
tchrist
tchrist
06:08
@Færd Considering that the Richter scale is a logarithmic one, a couple of notches higher sounds a hundred times worse. :)
Educ
Educ
06:21
@Ivan Great Idea
 
4 hours later…
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
10:39
I woke up and I got two secret hats. I don't know how D:
 
1 hour later…
Feeds
Feeds
11:58
1
Q: Range of application

Make42"Effectiveness" is how good the results are of a method, "Efficiency" is how much result I can get, in comparison to the resources I need to spend (e.g. computing power for computational algorithms). I am searching for a word (ideally from of the same etymological origin, starting with "E"), that...

single-word-requests
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
12:33
@MattE.Эллен by waking up. Check your bed for cameras
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
12:43
@M.A.R. wait... what's this?!
Mitch
Mitch
13:17
@MattE.Эллен IT"S A SECRET. THAT"S WHY!
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
@Mitch I MUST DEDUCE THE CAUSE AND EFFECT. BUT I HAVE NO EVIDENCE
Mitch
Mitch
My apologies. As a chatbot, there are somethings my programming does automatically that are not under my control. Like caps lock. My programmer is a little slow. Also the training data sets are from the early 90's AOL. A/S/L? I just have a version number.
@MattE.Эллен No evidence, it didn't happen.
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
but I have the hats!
Mitch
Mitch
I think that's a miracle
@MattE.Эллен Oh. That evidence.
Does it keep you warm?
Does it keep the rain off your head?
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
no, not in any real sense
Mitch
Mitch
13:21
Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence?
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
maybe.
Mitch
Mitch
It may warm your heart
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
do hats normally contain that?
Mitch
Mitch
It's a pretty good hat if it did
I think I will be getting a hat like that for christmas
Santa told me so
Cerberus
Cerberus
Have you heard about Borsalino's potential bankruptcy?
One of the world's most famous hatters.
Mitch
Mitch
13:24
@Cerberus No. How bankrupt is he?
Cerberus
Cerberus
france24.com/en/…
> Famed Italian hatmaker Borsalino, the company behind Humphrey Bogart's fedora in "Casablanca" and Harrison Ford's lucky headgear in the "Indiana Jones" movies, was declared bankrupt on Monday, a trade union said.
tchrist
tchrist
@Cerberus That's a shame.
Mitch
Mitch
More importantly, bottom dredging in the pun category:
> "That's a bit 'pawnographic': Chess World Championship's new logo deemed too 'racy'"
Cerberus
Cerberus
But there are plans to save the company.
@Mitch So easy!
Mitch
Mitch
yeah, I don't get the pun on 'racy'
Cerberus
Cerberus
13:30
Oh, I didn't get that 'racy' should be a pun as well.
I thought it was from a serious headline.
But I must go.
Adeus.
Mitch
Mitch
Holy crap - it took watching til 4:37 until you get to the 'chess' story.
That's pretty rude making you watch 'real' news to get to the interesting part.
@Cerberus Azeus to you.
@Cerberus That's how bad the story is
Færd
Færd
@tchrist Yeah, but that's just how we perceive things. Sound (both intensity and pitch), light, weight, ... and earthquakes.
But the real question here, I imagine, is how our buildings feel it.
Anyway. I'm going crazy. Last night I felt it and ever since I'm sensing these illusional quakes and jump up every time a truck goes by.
MetaEd
MetaEd
14:19
The World Chess Championship logo is too Macpainty.
 
2 hours later…
Robusto
Robusto
15:59
"In effect, the tax bill achieves four main things:

It takes money away from schools and students.
It restricts our ability to invest in infrastructure.
It does nothing to boost real wages while making health insurance more expensive.
It makes it harder to control the costs of Medicare and Social Security without cutting defense and other spending -- or further exploding the deficit."
bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-15/…
In a nutshell.
MetaEd
MetaEd
16:10
@Mitch Azrael to you.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
16:31
@Robusto Was this part of a conversation, or were you just dropping it in there?
BTW, I see that in the US, the lunatics really are running the asylum. Sorry about that.
Mitch
Mitch
@MetaEd Abeelzebub, minion
Feeds
Feeds
0
Q: Correct term to describe apparent bias in expressing opinions -- extremity as a function of publicity

Arash HowaidaI am looking for the proper term to describe the apparent bias that exists in voicing one's opinion. Here are two ways I currently conceptualize this bias: the content of the comparatively more outspoken individuals are more opinionated/extreme the more public/widespread a message is, the more ...

single-word-requests
MetaEd
MetaEd
user image
Robusto
Robusto
16:52
@FaheemMitha It is part of the general conversation that is The Decline and Fall of the United States of America. And yes, the lunatics really are running the asylum.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Robusto Well, it's hard to know the future.
The US still has enormous advantages over most countries.
Regardless, this is all extremely unfortunate.
Feeds
Feeds
0
Q: Word to describe explicit comparison between something's orignal state and its current state

user124605I'm trying to find a good word that properly points out the difference between any noun's original state and its current state, assuming the original and current will always be the only two states of the noun. For example, if I want to compare the original condition of a phone to the current con...

single-word-requests american-english
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Particularly for US universities. Attacking a country's educational system is a really effective long-term way to do it serious damage.
I just read a message from MIT's president saying that endowment income was now being taxed. Apparently this was the first time.
 
2 hours later…
Feeds
Feeds
18:29
0
Q: Word for "willingness to accept status quo"

Vojislav StojkovicI'm looking for a word that would allow me to describe the willingness to settle for what there is, to accept status quo, instead of wanting something better. It's the attitude behind the aphorism "perfect is the enemy of good". Sample sentence: The prevalence of [word] among engineers is w...

single-word-requests
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha Yeah, well, it was never that good unless you had a lot of money or luck, was it?
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Well, it was and is possible to work as a grad student. And as an undergrad, you can at least go to your state schools. Otherwise, yes, agreed.
I suppose undergrad scholarships exist.
My point was just that the university research system is an important part of US infrastructure. Tampering with it is criminal insanity.
Then again, that's basically a Trump defining characteristic.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha You still have to pay a lot of money for those state schools, don't you?
And they're not that good compared to other countries.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus No, not that much.
Cerberus
Cerberus
How much?
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:38
@Cerberus I think the answer to that is - it depends.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Here it's about €180/month, which is already too expensive. But at least you can get cheap government loans that you only have to pay back once you make enough money.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus In-state tuition is typically a few thousand dollars.
Cerberus
Cerberus
That is a lot of money.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
It would probably not be too hard to get precise figures.
Cerberus
Cerberus
In Germany, all education is free, I believe.
My friend went to an Ivy-League university in America, and he said the level was not particularly high.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:40
@Cerberus Agreed. But better than private tuition. Which in some places is 50k a year. I think Duke might be getting to that point, for example.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Of course that's just an anecdote, but I've heard some other people say similar things.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus That is correct. As far as I know.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha Of course. But even at €3000 it's still a bad system.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus That's also correct, I think.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Just tons of assignments.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:41
The big thing about the US university system isn't the education part of it, it's the research part.
Cerberus
Cerberus
And part of your grade for a class was based on "participation". Whenever you asked a question in class, the prof would mark it on a form, sometimes without even answering you.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
I don't think undergrad education in the US is particularly good. Or the grad education part, for that matter.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I think its better universities are on par with those of other rich countries.
Maybe their richest universities have much bigger budgets than in e.g. Germany, so they can do more research.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
But the US has world-class research infrastructure, partly for well-known historical reasons. Assistance from WWII German govt policies, Cold War paranoia...
Cerberus
Cerberus
From what I know, I don't think it's very different from that of other rich countries.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:44
@Cerberus True, but there are not that many large rich countries. It's kind of the US, Germany, Japan.
Cerberus
Cerberus
They don't have to be large.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus To get stuff done, it does help.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Many small countries have excellent universities.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Of course. But it's a scale issue.
99% of research goes nowhere, even with good people doing it.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I don't think you need an extremely large scale for most good research.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:45
It's a very inefficient process.
@Cerberus You do if you want results.
Cerberus
Cerberus
More ≠ higher quality.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Because most of it gets thrown away.
@Cerberus Also agreed. But that wasn't my point.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Okay.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Even if you have an army of excellent researchers, most of their work is still likely to go nowhere.
For example, the US spends a staggering amount of money on cancer research, and has a ton of people working on it. But there has been little result so far.
If you could get some really first class geniuses working on it, you might be able to make some progress. But you can't exactly get those people on demand.
Anyway, @Cerberus, nice to chat with you again.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha Absolutely.
But that doesn't mean the quality of the research wasn't good.
Likewise!
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
18:59
@Cerberus "Good" isn't really such a well-defined term.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Indeed not.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
All I was really getting at was that the US gets a lot from its research universities. So clueless meddling with it is foolish.
I mean, I personally don't have anything at stake. I'm just a detached observer.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
So am I, hopefully.
But I think their big universities are so rich, it won't impact them that much, aren't they?
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Hard to say. I don't know that much about how their university systems function.
But you know what they say, slippery slopes.
Cerberus
Cerberus
But if you have billions in investments...
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:05
@Cerberus Only a few of them have that kind of money. Typically the older ones.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Yeah.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
And the most prestegious ones.
Cerberus
Cerberus
But I think many of the other ones have lots of money too.
Since they extort charge students like that.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
E.g. Harvard, MIT. And even rich universities are not immune to economic collapse.
@Cerberus I doubt it.
Cerberus
Cerberus
If every student pays you €50,000 every year, you can save a lot of money!
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:07
The state universities cdertainly don't.
Cerberus
Cerberus
You shouldn't need government support at all.
OK not those.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus The universities don't necessarily get to keep it. Universities are very expensive places to run. Also, I imagine, very inefficient places.
Also very abusive places. Lots of resource misallocation.
Cerberus
Cerberus
A student at a Dutch university costs about €10,000 or so yearly, I believe.
All included.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Living costs included?
Cerberus
Cerberus
So you should have plenty of money to spare if your tuition is 50,000.
No, universities don't provide housing here.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:10
@Cerberus I don't follow. "you"?
Cerberus
Cerberus
Students live in the city like any other person, in whatever house they choose and pay for.
You = a university.
You don't need to receive 50,000 per student in order to fund their education.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus There is a lot of fixed overhead. Salaries, equipment, building maintenance. And even universities pay taxes.
And did I mention inefficiencies?
Universities have lots of those. Like paying for thousands of dollars for journal subscriptions for journal nobody reads.
Or paying for faculty and administration who don't do their job...
I mean, a biology lab costs a fortune to run.
I remember at Duke being staggered at how some of that equipment cost. And universities don't have that many direct research streams.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I believe all those costs are included in the amount.
It seems to be closer to €14,000.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Chomsky referred to them as semi-parasitic organizations.
Cerberus
Cerberus
I've checked the number.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:16
@Cerberus I'd like to see your accounting. :-)
Cerberus
Cerberus
A Dutch organisation has done the math.
Based on government statistics.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Do you have a link?
Cerberus
Cerberus
Which, in turn, are compiled in order to determine how much money each university should get.
It's in Dutch.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus ok
Cerberus
Cerberus
mijnstudentenleven.nl/wat-kost-een-student-en-wat-levert-hij-op
The source link is dead, unfortunately.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:18
@Cerberus I don't know if governments are that good at estimating university costs.
Cerberus
Cerberus
But the Algemene Rekenkamer, the source, is the most reliable source regarding costs and accounting that we have—it's even more reliable than the Central Bureau of Statistics, also highly reliable.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus What does it do?
Cerberus
Cerberus
Its purpose is to check the accounting of all government entities.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus I see. It's a Govt agency?
Cerberus
Cerberus
Every year, it criticises how poorly it feels the various departments and other governmental organs have kept their accounting—and the Dutch government agencies are among the world's most meticulous. So you could say the Rekenkamer is an accounting Nazi.
Yes.
Mitch
Mitch
19:21
Are we moving on from how exorbitant undergrad education is in the US to government funding?
Cerberus
Cerberus
But either way, the universities get almost all of their income from the government.
So what they receive should be close to what they spend.
Mitch
Mitch
In the US, similarly with research universities
Cerberus
Cerberus
We had already moved on, I believe.
Mitch
Mitch
(student tuition is a small percentage of university income)
But at non-research universities, student tuition does pay for quite a lot.
but surprisingly, revenue from sports (buying tickets to games), and alumni contributions, funds both, non-research and research universities (percentage-wise more in the former
Cerberus
Cerberus
Which is why I suggested that cutting government subsidies might still leave many universities with more money than the average German university.
Or far more.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:25
@Cerberus If you are suggesting that US universities manage their money extremely poorly, you might be right.
Certainly what I saw at Duke tends to support that.
Mitch
Mitch
what do you mean by government subsidies? Not research grants right?
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha Oh, probably, but even if they didn't.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Not sure what you are replying to.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mitch I don't know; whatever subsidies Trump will cut.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Not following. "Even if they didnt?"
Mitch
Mitch
19:27
the famous us universities (Harvard Princeton MIT etc) have huge endowments (in the billions) that tuition is almost negligable. But universities lower on the scale are having economic troubles.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Mitch Alumni money is extremely important, I think.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Even if those universities didn't spend they money inefficiently, they might still have plenty of money left with subsidies cut.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Mitch Tuition is still important, I think.
Mitch
Mitch
@FaheemMitha yes, and it sort of goes along with sports.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Such a strange situation.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:28
They may have large endowments, but they run off the interest on those endowments.
Mitch
Mitch
@Cerberus right but only for those few top schools. other schools might have difficulties
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
And as I was saying earlier, most don't have that kind of money.
Consider the California State University system. Including Berkeley, one of the world's to research universities.
Mitch
Mitch
I don't really know what those subsidies really are but I have a feeling that it only impacts state schools
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
It certainly doesn't have that kind of money.
Mitch
Mitch
but as a research institute, it gets a lot of money from research grants (i don't include that in the term 'subsidies')
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
19:30
@Mitch Taxing endowment income affects private universities too. And treating tuition remissions as salaries would affect everyone.
Mitch
Mitch
they're competitive
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mitch Yes, but the ones that demand €20,000 in tuition should still have enough money.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
That last one is particularly mad. And kind of worrying.
Mitch
Mitch
@FaheemMitha hm...that sounds familiar from the news in the past few days
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
If they are attacking grad students now, we're all really in trouble.
They are a big part of what keeps US universities running. And they get paid ridiculously badly as it is. I know - I was one of them.
@Cerberus That kind of money still doesn't go far in a large, inefficient bureaucracy with little accountability.
So, how many of you guys are American?
@Mitch Yes. So called soft money. Also research contracts.
Cerberus
Cerberus
19:35
@FaheemMitha Well, of course you can throw away an infinite amount of money on useless things. But my point was that there should still be enough money in total if you get 20,000 per student.
Enough to still do plenty of research and be a good university with good education.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus It's hard to say. But it's interesting that a Dutch govt department has been doing calculations about this.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Maybe less research than before, if you're a research university: that is possible.
Mitch
Mitch
@FaheemMitha at least 1
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha It does so because the government needs to know how much money to pay out to each university.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Well, yes. But I think you might be underestimating how much money it takes to run an effective research enterprise.
@Cerberus Yes, I got that.
Cerberus
Cerberus
19:37
If you have more money, you can do more research. If less, then less.
If you have very little money, you can decide to do only one project, and do it very well.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Can't argue with that. :-) But at some point, you stop being competitive. And the good people will go somewhere with better salaries and resources.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Or you can stop e.g. building a gym and housing for students.
Things unrelated to education and research.
And a sauna.
And whatever luxuries those universities provide for staff and students.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Though the US seems to have a hard time remembering it, there are other places in the world.
Cerberus
Cerberus
Haha.
So it appears.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
The US universities get the best people because they pay well and have good facilities.
And it's also a big place, so more jobs than most places.
But all that can go away. 100 years ago, that wasn't the case.
Cerberus
Cerberus
19:41
Meh, don't exaggerate.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Which part?
Cerberus
Cerberus
"The best people".
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Fine. Some of the best people. :-)
I was speaking loosely.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@FaheemMitha I agree with your central point, that cutting university funding is bad and may adversely affect research and education.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Cerberus Heh. It's a pretty damn uncontroversial point. If we include taxing stuff that wasn't previously being taxed as funding.
@Cerberus Actually, universities have multiple income streams. What they have in common, is that, ironically, little of the money is actually earned by their core missions.
These include (a) govt funding including research grants/contracts, and (if you want) tax exemptions (b) alumni donations (c) student fees/tuition (d) income from endowments (e) money from private foundations. Presumably also including research grants/contracts.
There might be others I haven't thought of.
Hmm, selling tickets to athletic events. And other income obtained from that. TV broadcasts?
But what almost of these have in common, is that they are not money derived from research. Because research can't pay for itself. And even (I've been told) education can't pay for itself. As in, student education is heavily subsidised. Though I'm not sure I believe that last part.
I mean, I've seen how undergrad US students get treated. Herded into large classrooms. Taught by grad students. Often ignored.
Mitch
Mitch
19:59
@FaheemMitha That's at big state schools. Smaller schools advertise that they don't do that.
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Mitch I've heard they still get grad students to teach, though.
Mitch
Mitch
20:49
@FaheemMitha yes
Cerberus
Cerberus
21:06
@FaheemMitha Indeed.
MetaEd
MetaEd
The seasonal eating has begun in earnest.
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
21:47
@DanBron I disagree with your comments, mine was a purely technical English question. But I'm too tired to dispute this point.
Mitch
Mitch
22:31
@MetaEd A salt and pepper diet
Dan Bron
Dan Bron
22:53
@CowperKettle Not sure when you sent this message. But the problem is with poetry is you can't tell if the underlying issue is about technical aspects of English or about the poety subverting them. That's why it's off-topic on EL&U. Poetry, lyrics, and some literature can't be relied on to adhere to the rules of English used elsewhere, and so interpretation becomes a subjective exercise.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@DanBron I don't really think that distinction is very strong.
The rules of English and bent and broken in all genres.
Dan Bron
Dan Bron
@Cerberus Yes, which is why asking about interpretation of works of literature is off-topic on ELU across the board. And why Literature.se was launched.
Cerberus
Cerberus
@DanBron Right, when it's mostly about interpretation, and the interpretation is mostly about something other than the structure, idiom, etc. of English, then a question belongs on Literature.SE.
But that doesn't categorically preclude questions about poetry on English.SE.
I don't think all questions about poetry should be off topic here.
When the question seems to be about syntax, idiom, etc., I think it can stay here.
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@DanBron Poetry isn't always off-topic here. Nothing expressly states that in the help-center, and the top voted answer I could find on the subject on Meta was a post by @mitch which establishes a case-by-case basis. Personally, I think it was a misstep for us to close that alliteration topic recently because it was the best word choice and usage question I've seen in a good long while. I've been meaning to write a meta-post about that...
MetaEd
MetaEd
23:10
Well, merry Christmas everybody, from Chiron Beta Prime.
3
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@MetaEd Merry Christmas MetaEd.

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