English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Feeds

02:41

0

Q: Any word for season/episode pair?

Which word can be used to refer to combination of season and episode (e.g. S2E3 or E2)?

single-word-requests

Feeds

03:19

0

Q: A word for a "listening ear"

I am looking for a word that describes a person who is always willing to listen. He/She is your go-to person whenever you want to express your deepest thoughts, problems, and/or burdens. The person is not necessarily a confidante since the shared information are not necessarily secrets.

single-word-requests terminology obscure-terms

SmokeDetector

06:25

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer: Is there a light-hearted word or phrase for a hypochondriac parent? by SocioBlend on english.SE

Gigili

08:05

runs the review queue

Feeds

11:50

0

Q: A phrase/preposition for monitoring something

I want to use the sentence 1 They monitor the security of the device. and make the sentence 2 I don't know how they monitor the device ---- the security. What should I put in the blank? The options I have in mind and have been used here or there are "in terms of", "concerning" and "...

single-word-requests phrase-requests prepositional-phrases

Mitch

@Gigili runs the stockings

@Gigili goes away

Lawrence

13:37

@Mitch Tell your friend those are called portraits.

@AndrewLeach At least you weren't going from iPhone to Android. Do Windows phones let you save to SD card?

Matt E. Эллен

14:00

@Mitch runs off at the mouth

Andrew Leach

@Lawrence Windows Phone does support SD cards, and can separate that storage from on-board storage, but it's not detachable. The memory is integrated into what's available to the phone and you can't simply remove the card to plug it in somewhere else.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach Ah, that's a pity.

Andrew Leach

I did think I'd cracked it: I got the backup off the Windows phone and put it in the right place on the Android phone, and WhatsApp found it, and attempted to read it. And failed.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach What do you think of those 'migrate from any phone to any phone' apps?

Andrew Leach

I have one for migrating SMS from Windows to Android, and that worked fine. I haven't found one for WhatsApp messages.

Lawrence

14:08

If you just need a transcript, you can email them to yourself. It's tedious if you have many threads, though.

terdon

@AndrewLeach What do you mean? If it isn't detachable, why is it an SD card? The phone just ships with an SD card melded to it? And you still have to pay twice as much to get more storage?

Andrew Leach

I expect WhatsApp not working it's something to do with on-board storage for WhatsApp being encrypted.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach Can you backup to the cloud?

Andrew Leach

@terdon No idea. But all you are doing with an SD card in a Windows phone is increasing the on-board storage.

terdon

@AndrewLeach So you can add one? If not, it is on-board storage.

Andrew Leach

14:10

@Lawrence Not easily. WhatsApp on Windows uses OneDrive, and WhatsApp on Android forces Google Drive.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach So near, yet so far. Frustrating.

Mitch

@terdon I don't get SD cards. They're so small. At least USB drives come with a keychain attacher thingy. SD cards are way to easy to lose.

Andrew Leach

@terdon Yes, you can add an SD card to increase RAM from say 8GB to 136GB. But that extra 128GB can't be unplugged and plugged into somewhere else as a transfer mechanism.

Mitch

Look man it's almost the 2020's. Why isn't all memory in the cloud?

In fact we shouldn't even be thinking about the cloud or physical devices. It's just there.

Can I hear a "Goddammit, and get off my astroturf lawn literally made out of moon dust"?

terdon

@AndrewLeach RAM? You mean storage not RAM, right?

Andrew Leach

14:12

@Mitch Well, on my PC I use Dropbox. It's on my PC, but everything is available on other devices too.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен just mouths off

terdon

@Mitch They're not really meant to be carried around, are they? I just put mine into my phone or tablet or whatever and don't take it out until I buy a new phone or tablet.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach Dropbox is in the right direction. BUt my point is that at this point in the future, we shouldn't have to care.

Andrew Leach

@terdon Hmm. Storage. Solid state storage in random-access memory.

terdon

@AndrewLeach But how does that work? If you can add it, you can also remove it, right? Why can't it be moved?

Mitch

14:13

Except maybe about the corporation we pay our internet utility bill to.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch always care who has your data.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach Just keep the old phone as an archive. :)

terdon

Oh, you mean the OS on the other phone won't recognize it or something?

Andrew Leach

Yes. The Windows Phone docs state that explicitly.

Mitch

@terdon If you can take them out, they can travel by themselves. I need a holder or a deck, like for those 3 1/2 in disks. But mini sized, like halloween versions of candy bars

@MattE.Эллен There's caring and then there's caring.

No, I don't know what that means either but it sounds profound.

Andrew Leach

14:15

@Lawrence Fortunately, there isn't much in WhatsApp. I had over 8000 SMS messages, which were successfully transferred.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch sharing is caring

Mitch

Or sublime. One of those

Matt E. Эллен

subpar....

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен They're called care bears, not share bears.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch sounds like the over share bears if you ask me

Mitch

14:16

TMI

do you guys get those commercials about toilet paper with the (cartoon) big fluffy bears all colored blue or red and they're talking about comfort and stuff and you don't know exactly why but then at the end there's some mention of toilet paper?

I mean animals in the wild don't seem to have ... problems with how to wipe their asses

Not that I've really checked.

I'm just guessing

Matt E. Эллен

I have a pet rat. I've never seen him wipe his arse

terdon

@AndrewLeach Huh. That seems silly.

Lawrence

@AndrewLeach You might have seen this. I wonder whether it's just down to the file separator character. Worth a test edit?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Maybe it's fiber. I mean maybe they just get a lot of fiber.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah, that would make sense. also, not a lot of processed sugar

Mitch

14:20

They're missing out though on the front end

Friday is donut day.

But I suppose not for rats.

I feel bad for rats now

except for the poop thing

Lawrence

@Mitch Have you ever had a whiff of what they smell like, though?

Mitch

also mange

Matt E. Эллен

not our rat. we give him peas every so often. he loves that

Mitch

@Lawrence They don't smell like poop. Just a little gamey at most

@MattE.Эллен nice. I don't wish I were a rat (fear of being stepped on) but if I had to be a rat, I think peas would really make a difference

because donuts will kill you

Matt E. Эллен

peas and cheese. I'm not sure if the rat understands rhyming, so that's probably a coincidence

Mitch

14:23

and give you funny poop

Matt E. Эллен

also, why isn't the singular of cheese chee?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен I don't know, rats are pretty clever. They could probably figure it out eventually.

@MattE.Эллен I don't think the singular of peas is really 'pea' because singular used to be 'pease'.

Lawrence

@Mitch Then again, farms don't generally smell like that either, and see what they've got lying about all over the place.

Mitch

rats would be able to understand the etymological fallacy

@Lawrence chicken farms smell chicken poopy

pig farms too

Matt E. Эллен

pig farms smell the worst, IMO

Lawrence

14:25

@Mitch I was thinking of cows and paddocks.

Mitch

horse and cows, that smells more like horse and cow sweat, and the manure, while not exactly perfume, isn't revolting smelling.

For the record, I am not an animal farmer. I just picked this all up from pictures.

Lawrence

@Mitch You mean: just because the cheese came from the wheel doesn't mean it's safe to eat?

@Mitch Pictures aren't known for conveying smell accurately.

Mitch

@Lawrence You're speaking to me like I understand metaphors. So literally, yeah, don't eat the part of cheese that has changed color or grown.

@Lawrence I'm as smart as a rat.

Lawrence

@Mitch That's my point, actually. In the wild, they probably do smell somewhat like poop. It's just that their poop doesn't smell as bad as ours.

Mitch

They're clever little bastards.

Will take the cheese right off your plate.

and not the funny colored stuff either

Lawrence

14:29

@Mitch Or been placed in traps.

Mitch

@Lawrence I wonder if they think their poop is nasty and that human poop is, while not the best, at least tolerable.

Lawrence

@Mitch They can sometimes pick the cheese out of traps without setting them off.

Mitch

@Lawrence Yeah, traps. It's so obvious what the humans are trying to do with them.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch Not rats and other hindgut fermentors. They literally eat their own poop

probably would give our a wide berth, as it won't have the delicious nutrients in it

Mitch

corn?

Lawrence

14:32

@Mitch Haha! Well, dogs are known for their keen sense of smell. They're also known for what they choose to smell. So maybe it just doesn't bother them. I suppose if you have to rely on smell to hunt or evade, it helps if you're not disgusted by it.

Matt E. Эллен

maybe....

not doughnuts, anyway

Mitch

@Lawrence there's some quote by Mark Twain/WInston/Churchill/Oscar Wilde/Jesus like: "Humans are the only animal with a sense of shame, and the only ones who need it"

I think that's speciesist. Hippos swim through their own poop.

@MattE.Эллен haha yeah. The human body can extract absolutely everything out of a donut

even the hole

That's an allusion to everything but the squeal.

I had to point that out because I have no shame.

Like a goddam animal

Lawrence

@Mitch With great power comes great responsibility - Stan Lee, probably, or Spiderman, if you prefer.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I have no idea what you're talking about.

Mitch

Stan Lee is very old.

Matt E. Эллен

14:36

sadly, the reverse is not true

Lawrence

@Mitch Not as old as Mark Twain.

Mitch

He's like the King George III from the 60's to the 20's

@MattE.Эллен It's a quote from Upton Sinclair "The Jungle" a story around the stockyard's of Chicago in the 1910's, they claimed they used absolutely every part of the pig. Everything but the squeal.

@Lawrence touché

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch oh! TIL

MetaEd

@Mitch Goddam? Is that like a fairy godmother?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен It's a good book. but sort of depressing. a little like a precursor to Orwell's Down and Out, except it's fiction. Its basically life sucks and it's going to get worse.

but there's no bouncy castle on the side

Matt E. Эллен

14:41

@Mitch sounds like 2016 writing about 2017

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен wait until 2018.

sigh

Matt E. Эллен

I'm going to have to

Mitch

Really, things seemed to be going so well

Lawrence

@Mitch We're almost there.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен You can't .... never mind

Matt E. Эллен

14:42

I can sometimes mind

Mitch

@MetaEd yeah...sorta like a wet nurse.

@MattE.Эллен reads tomorrows newspaper

Yes, you can. At least until tomorrow

Matt E. Эллен

good point. I need to get on with work

Mitch

checks clock

whew...meeting not missed

Lawrence

TTFN

Mitch

What the hell is wrong with regular expressions when they're so right?

You can complain all day about them, but think of the alternative.

Andrew Leach

14:49

@Lawrence WhatsApp found the file successfully because it was in the right place in the local storage on the phone, but couldn't read it. I think the local file on Android is encrypted (it has a .crypt extension) and the backup which is stored in the cloud is not. Simply putting the backup in the right place in the phone storage (and changing its name to what was expected) wasn't enough.

MetaEd

Feeds

0

Q: What is the term used to refer to the words "landlocked" and "coastal"?

In geography, a place may either be inland/landlocked or coastal in reference to its borders. But I could not find any official term to refer to these words. Should it be "border type", "border class"? Any other suggestions?

single-word-requests phrase-requests terminology geography

terdon

15:09

@Mitch Most people don't understand them and get confused.

They are quite confusing, to be fair. Until you learn them.

Mitch

@terdon They're like a mini programing language for strings, that only scan forward. Very restricted in power (yes confusing sure for non-programmers). But now I'm wondering why they are so useful if all they do is augment your search and replace. What is it about programming language text (and to some extent human language text) that allow REs to be so useful?

NVZ

anyone here?

Andrew Leach

Only us armadillos.

NVZ

i need someone to tell me what's the joke here? i don't seem to understand. I commented an indian proverb. Edwin responded with "it won't work on Aus Eng". Please help understand. thanks.

A direct translation, by myself, of an Indian proverb: "A weapon that has left your hand, and a word that has left your mouth - you cannot get them back" — NVZ 5 hours ago

@NVZ It wouldn't work in Australian English. — Edwin Ashworth 5 hours ago

his comment has 5 upvotes as well. so i'm not getting it's meaning..

Andrew Leach

It's referring to a boomerang.

Autralian aboriginal weapon famous for returning to its thrower.

NVZ

15:25

haha, nice

and Cap America's shield as well? It finds its way back to Cap, breaking all the laws of physics!

Come to think of it, I'm not sure what weapon the Indian proverb is referring to. Throwing axes/knives? Probably not Indian style. Arrows, likely.

Which then makes it similar to GRR Martins famous line: "Words are like arrows, once loosed you cannot call them back"

which, maybe he made up, or was inspired from similar ones.. so there must be one in English as well.. of course there are weapons in English speaking worlds..

Matt E. Эллен

words are like barrows. filled with dead bodies and of interest to archaeologists

hmmmm

that doesn't seem as true

Mitch

words are like sparrows, they flit round from branch to branch and then shit on you when you look up

Matt E. Эллен

lol

Andrew Leach

Perhaps words are like marrows, full of bits you have to spit out.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Mitch

15:34

eww

I don't think I've ever had marrow

not knowingly

i've always thought that it was supposed to be very ... rich.

terdon

@Mitch Also scan backwards. Lookbehinds etc.

Mitch

I've had brains.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch It's a cross between a cucumber and a melon. Not rich; mostly water.

terdon

Me too. They taste like chicken

Mitch

a small appetizer size

NVZ

15:36

I had strings, but now I'm free.

Mitch

+1

@AndrewLeach ?? really? straight from the inside of a leg bone?

NVZ

@Mitch i had brains as well. they were mostly mixed with eggs to taste better.

Mitch

yeah. I think they need a lot extra to be palatable

NVZ

all my family likes eating boti - which i donno in English - but is probably the intestines.

i hate it

beef boti

we used to eat rabbits long back, our place had visitors from the wildlands..

Mitch

vegetables seem so boring in comparison

NVZ

15:41

now there's no rabbits, and no forests..

only concrete jungles..

Matt E. Эллен

no concrete rabbits?

Andrew Leach

Perhaps that's not called a marrow in American.

Realises speaker is turned down too far to hear the chat pings

NVZ

despacito... means.. slowly.. haha.. today i learned. was a mystery until now.

Mitch

15:56

@AndrewLeach perhaps not. separated by a common language. and the Pacific. In AmE, marrow means bone marrow, the cookable/edible interior of long bones.

That picture is what I would call an (oversized) zucchini (courgette in BrE?)

Matt E. Эллен

they're all related (courgette, cucumber, marrow, squash)

Mitch

Wait... or is that a kind of melon (which of course is closely related to the courgette/zucchini)

melons are just sweeter

Andrew Leach

@Mitch Actually a courgette is an early-harvested and therefore undersized marrow.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен the inside of long bones share with the gourd family DNA structure from 2 billion years ago, but I think that's the most recent common ancestor

@AndrewLeach Oh. What is the point of early harvesting? Wouldn't you want to wait until it grows more of itself? Are people just desperate?

Andrew Leach

@Mitch The Brits do actually have a word for the full-grown thing. It appears not to be us who are desperate to eat it.

Mitch

16:03

@NVZ "Quiero respirar tu cuello despacito" = ~"I want to breath in your neck slowly"? ... because you want to savor the last remaining crumbs from the peanut butter crackers you were just eating sloppily? That is hard core gastronomy

Matt E. Эллен

gourds are also from the same family

Mitch

"Firmo en las paredes de tu laberinto" = ~"I write on the walls of your labyrinth". OK that's not a metaphor for anything. It's just weird.

Matt E. Эллен

oh, apparently gourd is the family

Cerberus

Are gourds of the nightshade family?

Or is that just aubergines?

Matt E. Эллен

not as far as I can see

Cerberus

16:06

Hmm.

Mitch

take off your night shades

Cerberus

How many km can you see?

Matt E. Эллен

they're the Cucurbitaceae family

@Cerberus depends where I'm stood

Cerberus

Indeed.

I'm writing/improving this userscript that can convert all non-metric values on a web page.

So you can say it in any unit you like.

Mitch

@Cerberus wikipedia says "yes, eggplants are nightshades"

Matt E. Эллен

16:07

100 lb/m^2

Cerberus

Yes, and courgettes?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен newtons?

Joules?

Lumens?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch oldtonnes

Cerberus

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен oh...BTUs?

Matt E. Эллен

16:08

pounds per square mile

Cerberus

M is supposed to be a mile?

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus nice

Mitch

That seems like a lot to carry

or is it the coverage of fertilizer?

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus well, it can be metre if you like

Cerberus

Thank you.

Do people really use m for mile?

That would be very confusing!

Mitch

16:09

mph

Matt E. Эллен

yes, I think so.

Cerberus

Ugh, my 'thank you' refuses to come through.

Mitch

we got it

Cerberus

@Mitch Right, but outside that?

Mitch

1 min ago, by Cerberus

Thank you.

Matt E. Эллен

16:10

that is not indicating half a metre

Cerberus

But, you're right, I need to have mph in the script, too.

@MattE.Эллен Hmm.

But do you ever see that online?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен The notice would expect good brakes

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus I have not

i mean, apart from in road sign pictures :D

NVZ

so, puerto rico is american territory, but puerto ricans are not called americans?

i read that even americans from the main land don't know that despacito is actually an american song. lol

Mitch

@Cerberus nope, totally separate orders, gourds vs nightshades

@NVZ Of course they are Americans. But it is a territory, like Guam, so people (mainland Americans) are not very aware of it. You learn about the 50 states in school not the little possessions everywhere.

Matt E. Эллен

16:17

eat an aubergine? you must be out of your gourd

2

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен OK, good.

Matt E. Эллен

and into your nightshade

Cerberus

@Mitch OK, noted.

NVZ

@Mitch 51 states, isn't it?

Cerberus

So it's just aubergine, nightshade, tomato, paprika, Spanish peppers.

Mitch

16:18

@Cerberus but fun fact: tobacco is a nightshade, and all the other nightshades have (mostly negligable amounts of) nicotine.

Matt E. Эллен

@NVZ nope

Mitch

@NVZ ??

Cerberus

Ah, I didn't know tobacco was related!

NVZ

i mean, isn't there 51 states for america?

Cerberus

No wonder ragù alla bolognese is so addictive.

Mitch

16:19

@Cerberus also potato and tomato are almost identical, supposedly you can make hybrids like mules with tomatoes off the branches and potatoes off the roots.

NVZ

okay, google says, it is not yet 51.. but puerto ricans want in as the 51st

Matt E. Эллен

so they can vote in presidential elections and have a seat in one of the houses that they don't currently have a seat in. taxation only with representation!

NVZ

des---pa---cito, puerto ricans will become the 51st state-oo

Mitch

@NVZ no. there's the District of Columbia (the 10x10mi area of the capital), which is just weird. They have only partial representation in the national government. I think their votes don't count for presidential elections or something. I wonder how that works for Guam and PR

Matt E. Эллен

AFAIK PR and Guam can't vote for presidents

Mitch

16:22

@NVZ it's very questionable. also the hurricane destruction and response may sway people one way or they other.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch So DC is an offshore territory onshore?

Mitch

haha. yes?

Andrew Leach

And I thought the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man were weird.

NVZ

I hear Iron Man (read Elon Musk) is offering to rebuild Puerto Ricans' electricity grid..

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah, yes, potato, I knew that. That close, huh?

Mitch

16:23

@AndrewLeach Oh., they're weird all right.

Matt E. Эллен

> Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories do not have voting representation in the United States Congress, and are not entitled to electoral votes for President — Wikipedia

Mitch

@Cerberus Yeah. Weird. wouldn't have expected it. the names were always there as a clue.

Cerberus

Quite so.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен but they have US passports and can travel freely and get jobs anywhere in the US

NVZ

@Mitch hurricanes don't "sway" things, lol.. they're not that slow.. jk.

Mitch

16:25

...without bureaucratic hassle

Matt E. Эллен

... for now

Mitch

@NVZ well, you know about them for at least a week in advance, and they take a good few hours to pass by.

NVZ

@Mitch it's the americas and that's why it can predict and prepare, and rebuild as well. if it were in india, we're done for.

Mitch

A lot of PRiqueños (ticos?) don't want US statehood. Some macroeconomic reasons, I don't know.

Matt E. Эллен

interesting

Mitch

16:28

@NVZ but where you are now if it got hotter and drier it would just be hotter and drier

NVZ

@Mitch here, some occasional sand storms do happen. throws tons of sand on the cities..

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен It would totally mess up the star pattern on the flag. I think the flag designers went down a bad path with one star per state. It's going to be unmanagable getting symmetric patterns when we start colonizing trash heaps in the pacific and asteroids and moon bases.

That's the real difficulty with statehood

NVZ

rememebr the chase scene in mission impossible shot in dubai?

Mission: Impossible Ghost Protocol "Sandstorm Chase" Movie Clip Official [HD]

►

Matt E. Эллен

"Flags: that's the real difficulty with statehood." — Mitch

Mitch

@NVZ Oh. Right. and it can mess up camera lenses. but it doesn't knock out electricity and down houses

or does it?

@NVZ yeah. great scene. Sure, with goggles I could do that.

NVZ

16:32

@Mitch it should knock out everything, if it were in india. but dubai is well-prepared for sandstorms that occur normally.. and have huuuge underground stormwater drainage pipes at the ready if it were rain storms.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Well yeah. The PR flag is way to close to the Cuban flag and the Czech flag. That is going to cause problems in the battlefield and for seating arrangement confusion at the banquet afterwards

NVZ

it's made possible due to good vision and planning by the rulers here. they invested tons of cash into building a good city bringing in the greatest minds on earth from all over the planet.

camels to cadillac..

Andrew Leach

@Mitch 9 8 9 8 9 8 = 51. 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 = 52.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch somehow India and Ireland manage.

Mitch

@NVZ how high is the water table there (being right on the ocean)? Couldn't you all dig tunnels from basement to basement to keep out of the sun when travelling from building to building?

NVZ

16:34

@Mitch PR has a flag?

In india there were some discussions about having flags for states.. those ideas were quickly knocked out... because it will dissolve the love for the country flag and divide people into fighting for their states alone should such a situation arise.

Matt E. Эллен

Maybe everyone should take a flag from Nepal's book

Mitch

@AndrewLeach Clever. We'll get our top mathematicians planning on the rest. 83 is a tricky one!

Andrew Leach

@Mitch You'll run into difficulties with 53, which is a prime number.

MetaEd

@Mitch A regular expression is just a compact notation for a regular set. They're useful in programming when you want to ask questions like "is this utterance a member of this regular set".

Cerberus

Regex is nice.

Calming.

NVZ

16:38

@Mitch good idea, but it's under process.. Elon Musk is on it. And like everything, Dubai would call dibs on that.

The Boring Company | Tunnels

►

Cerberus

You don't have to look up endless numbers of conventions.

Mitch

@MetaEd OK Mr smartypants. Why are they so useful for programming text and human language text? Which are a mess.

Cerberus

Whenever it doesn't work, you know it's your own fault, and you know you can fix it.

Mitch

@NVZ Somehow I've lost all interest in that.

MetaEd

@Mitch Regular sets? Because they are unambiguous.

NVZ

16:40

@Mitch i know right! it's boring.

hehe

MetaEd

@Mitch Ask an ambiguous question, get an ambiguous answer ...

Mitch

@NVZ haha

NVZ

Quick question. why didn't ELU's chat room have a clever name?

Mitch

@MetaEd no, I mean I totally get regexes themselves. I'm just wondering how they turn out to be so useful in the real world for search/replacing in programming and actually also in narrative text (not exactly the same)

@NVZ Ah... history

From the beginning it was called...

The incomprehensible Room

I would have preferred if it had been called...

"I forgot what the name of the room was"

Endless hilarity would ensue if you forgot the name

NVZ

@Mitch ELU room isn't incomprehensible. It's preposterous!

Mitch

16:46

Oh. Then we're not working hard enough

looks up definition of preposterous

MetaEd

@Mitch A lot of computer language and data is in the form of regular sets, so it's no surprise that we can use regular expressions to notate them. Natural language, not so much.

NVZ

who decides what language is natural? aren't all languages man-made?

or person-made, just to be safe.

lol

MetaEd

For example, a zipcode can be notated as [0-9]{5}-[0-9]{4}. That's nice and compact, and there is no ambiguity about what is in the set.

Mitch

@MetaEd I am not convinced of your first claim (in some sense it is technically wrong because CFGs and also usually one just search replaces variable names). But then if 'not so much' for nat langs, why is it so useful with them then?

MetaEd

@NVZ Natural does not mean "not man-made".

NVZ

16:50

it usually does ;)

Andrew Leach

@NVZ Did you mean the large title? Like the one on GD's chat?

Mitch

@MetaEd hm...OK. yeah, lots of quasi numerical things could be defined with REs. (since they are designed to be recognizable mechanically by simple mechanisms).

NVZ

@AndrewLeach yeah.

Andrew Leach

@NVZ I don't think I've seen it have a name like that.

NVZ

@AndrewLeach a name like what?

MetaEd

16:51

@Mitch They're only "useful with them" when you're looking at very specific elements of natural language. For example, the set of all utterances consisting of any text, followed by "the", followed by any text, that's usefully notated as .*the.*. But try to concisely reduce the set of all utterances consisting of whining to a regular expression.

@NVZ It never does.

Andrew Leach

@NVZ A domain-specific name like "The Ink Spot" is to GD. It's always been just the name of the site. "The incomprehensible room" went in the description.

MetaEd

In the context we're talking about, it means "not artificial". Man makes a fork, that's artificial, not natural. Man makes a poop, that's natural, not artificial. Has to do with art, not with man-made.

And there's good reason to believe some other species are capable of art, so even artificial doesn't tie to man.

NVZ

language evolved naturally, rather than a small group of humans inventing it.. so there's that.

but language, the idea itself, is a man-made construct to aid communication.

MetaEd

@NVZ And note that we distinguish between natural and artificial language, so there's that also.

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