English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Anonymous

16:00

"If today Apple has new product sell in store in the U.S., you can find it here tomorrow." vs "If today Apple has a new product selling in stores in the U.S., you will find it at MBK tomorrow"

Cerberus

Or perhaps using words that refer to sexes at all. You never know with those lunatics.

Anonymous

Are both of them correct?

KitFox

@Gigili Wait.

@Anonymous The first is not.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus clearly the best option is "Dear sir and madam"

Anonymous

Why the first in incorrect?

KitFox

16:01

"Dear esteemed person"

Gigili

@KitFox Okay. waits

KitFox

@Anonymous Um, @Cerb can probably tell you.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Because no letter could ever be meant for a woman without her husband?

KitFox

@Cerberus Because then clearly you are not addressing a transsexual/transgender person.

Cerberus

@Anonymous It should be a new product. And you are throwing in "sell" (the infinitive) there at random: there is no connection with the main/finite verb ("has"); that is, there is no construction like that with has + inf., so it is incorrect.

Anonymous

16:04

Only second sentence is correct, right?

Cerberus

Yes.

@KitFox Hmm why not? Transsexuals could have a husband or wife of the opposite sex?

Anonymous

Thank you @Cerberus

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Gigili if it were an apple product it'd be "iUp"

Cerberus

Nooo not their stupid camel case.

KitFox

@Cerberus "Dear Sir/Madam" See? Get it?

Cerberus

16:06

@KitFox Ohh like that, haha.

But then you are addressing a transsexual!

KitFox

facepalm

Cerberus

If you're not sure what this person is.

KitFox

That's why you need to use "Dear sir or madman"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It should be "Dear Penis and/or Vagina"

2

KitFox

"Dear genitals"

Anonymous

16:08

@MrShinyandNew is so funny

2

Cerberus

Ohh OK, in the latter case you are clearly not addressing a transsexual, got it.

KitFox

"Dear genital-specific form of address for esteemed person"

2

Anonymous

I use "Dear company name", LOL.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, a message with the word "penis" got starred again!

Cerberus

Dear company name, how are you today?

Anonymous

16:09

Is it rude?

Gigili

I'd say "hoy" in this situation.

Anonymous

Dear StackOverflow,

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Dear Hoy?

Cerberus

I don't think dear is appropriate if you're not addressing a person/people.

Gigili

Hey hoy?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

16:09

You're always addressing a person or people

Cerberus

Not formally.

KitFox

To Whom It Won't Concern, but Whom is responsible for it nonetheless:

Please give me back my bag of chips.

Kthx.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ahoy-hoy

Cerberus

If you say "Dear Microsoft"...which I don't think you should in any case.

Gigili

But I personally love Microsoft as a brand

Cerberus

16:11

I would use the third person if you're not addressing a person.

KitFox

I can't even get this effing timestamp to work.

Anonymous

I have one more question "You can find any kind of cloths here" and "You can find any kind of clothing here". Are both of them correct?

KitFox

Any kind of cloth.

But cloth and clothing are not the same thing.

Cerberus

I think he means clothes.

KitFox

Oh.

Waah! Whoa! Huge, sudden semantic satiety on "clothes/clothing."

Ow, ow, ow.

Anonymous

16:12

Full sentence I try to write is "You can find any kind of cloths/clothing, from t-shirts to suits, shorts to pants, ....

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh people.

KitFox

@Anonymous "Clothing" sounds more natural there.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I turn my back on the room in favor of borshch, and it immediately fills up with genitalia.

Gigili

You should say you can find everything here, from hen to human.

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Again.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:14

Yes.

Except last time I had no borshch.

KitFox

It wasn't my fault this time!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 The genitalia are always here. Just that sometimes they're typing

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I want to unsee that.

KitFox

gasp MrShiny types with his genitalia?

Matt Эллен

lol

KitFox

16:15

Even I don't do that.

Matt Эллен

I'm glad I went to clean my shower. This is fun to come back to :D

Gigili

Hi Q.E.D.

Cerberus

@KitFox It would be harder for you.

Unless there is something you haven't told me.

Anonymous

I found this on internet.
clothing - collectively, all clothes.
clothes - the individual items.

Is it true?

KitFox

Yeah. I suppose.

Cerberus

16:16

Yes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

7

Q: What is the difference between "clothes" and "clothing"?

Do some google I find that clothes work like objects like: You should pack your clothes. → Yes You should pack your clothing. → No Can you tell me the main difference between clothing and clothes?

Anonymous

Just try to understand their different.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Difference.

Are you from Asia?

Anonymous

Thank you @RegDwight :)

Cerberus

But those descriptions aren't very specific.

Anonymous

16:17

Yes

Gigili

@RegDwightѬſ道 Should I flag it?

Anonymous

How did you know that?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Ano is from Thailand I think.

KitFox

@Cerberus I didn't mention which genitalia I would be typing with. My genitalia are manifold.

user19161

@KitFox What?

KitFox

16:17

Who? Which?

Anonymous

Yes I am from Thailand. Do Thai/Asian people always make this kind of mistake?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Anonymous A linguist once explained it to me.

Mahnax

I thought we were done with genitalia, but you guys couldn't even go a week.

3

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I am trying to find it in the transcript.

Cerberus

@KitFox I would imagine it to be considerably more difficult for any of your genitalia.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:19

But generally speaking, we can figure out accents here.

Cerberus

Unless you have a very small keyboard with only one key.

Well, never mind.

Matt Эллен

lol

Anonymous

Accent in my writing?

KitFox

@Cerberus draws diagram Like this, see?

It doesn't have to be attached.

Anonymous

I think accent mean how people speak. Or I misunderstood you?

user19161

16:21

@mahnax Boo!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Here it is.

Mar 4 '11 at 17:12, by RegDwight

Hm, why do people keep asking "what's the differenT"?

Mar 4 '11 at 17:13, by Kosmonaut

In my ESL classes, Chinese speakers often had trouble with that distinction

Mar 4 '11 at 17:14, by Kosmonaut

I think because t naturally palatalizes to ts in a lot of languages

Cerberus

@KitFox Huh attached? Ehm, let's say this is not my area of expertise, literally.

KitFox

@Cerberus Yes, well, hence the diagram.

Cerberus

@Anonymous You are right.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Fascinating! Though I think it is just not knowing the difference between the noun and the adjective in this case.

Cerberus

16:23

@KitFox It looks very...interesting.

Like Vitaly's spider.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Anonymous We have people here writing with a distinct Italian accent, or Russian, or German.

KitFox

@Cerberus I can provide you with a catalog, if you are interested.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 That is not really an accent.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus you are not really an accent.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what would you call it?

Mahnax

16:24

@WillHunting Hi. My presence is fleeting, I have a lot to do today.

Matt Эллен

Ý <- this Y has an accent

Cerberus

@KitFox I think I have heard of some websites where similar illustrations are provided.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

He is just jealous because I haven't listed his, um, "language".

Anonymous

Very interesting.

user19161

@Mahnax Off you go.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:24

Cerberus speaks Hellish. Or Hellese. Or Hellenic. I forget.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 There isn't really a name for it, unless you consider writing mistakes typically made by certain foreigners a dialect.

user19161

I was looking at this fashion show just now with these tall Russian models wearing diamonds.

Cerberus

Otherwise I'd simply call it a typically French etc. error.

Anonymous

I have different accent. Is this a correct usage?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus obviously I was cutting corners there because my main concern was to share a thought — which everybody perfectly understood, I might add, —, rather than getting hung up on defining a word that doesn't even exist.

@Anonymous That is Russian accent.

Cerberus

16:27

If the writing mistakes represent typical differences in pronunciation, then maybe you could talk about an accent in writing. But that is rare, like "I have these person here" (Romance accent).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Anonymous "a different accent"

KitFox

Is this correct usage?

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 So I gathered, but Anonymous was asking whether "accent" was normally used likethat (he was in doubt), so I felt I had to explain it in precise terms.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I know, I know...

Cerberus

@KitFox How do you feel about people who use usage with articles and in plural?

KitFox

16:29

@Cerberus Uh. What?

Anonymous

So, "I have a different accent." sound more common to native speaker, right?

KitFox

Yes.

user19161

@Cerberus I would say usage can be countable or uncountable.

Anonymous

Lots of thing I need to learn, LOL.

user19161

@Anonymous things

Cerberus

16:30

@KitFox You seemed to be commenting on his "a usage" when you removed the article?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Anonymous not just more common. Leaving out the article is simply ungrammatical.

Anonymous

Lot of things I need to learn. :)

Cerberus

@WillHunting I know many people use it like that, yes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So a native speaker just wouldn't do that except by genuine mistake.

KitFox

@Cerberus Right.

Mahnax

16:31

@WillHunting Ayup.

Cerberus

@KitFox So you would generally prefer uncountable usage?

KitFox

I don't think usage is countable. "There are two usages for this hammer" does not sound right.

Cerberus

How about with language?

I personally dislike it, but I was wondering how commonly accepted this is.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

May 18 '11 at 15:53, by Kosmonaut

If so, then you are getting adjectives mixed in and added to verb usages.

Cerberus

See, like that.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:32

Hook, line, and sinker.

Cerberus

I would never say that.

KitFox

What? Huh?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Well we are surprised a dog would talk at all.

Cerberus

I hear linguists use it like that a lot.

KitFox

That's different.

user19161

16:33

@RegDwightѬſ道 Lame joke.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 So that's why people never listen!

@WillHunting Nah it's fine.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Mar 25 '11 at 15:20, by JSBangs

244 usages, alas

user19161

oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/usage

Anonymous

I am off to bed. Thank you all of you. Have a nice weekend. (I hope no grammar error here) :D

KitFox

Ow, ow, ow. Stop!

@Anonymous Excellent. Good night!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:34

I will be here all week.

Cerberus

Comma: "thank you, all of you".

Good night!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Night Anon.

Matt Эллен

I cringe when I hear usage as countable, but I have to let it go. I probably usage it that way myself.

Mahnax

@Anonymous Night!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Thanks!!

user19161

16:34

@RegDwightѬſ道 Anonymous=Anon. QED.

Cerberus

Perhaps it is American? Or Linguisticese?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Mar 22 at 15:10, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

@aediaλ just drop them an ask and I am sure it will get actioned.

Matt Эллен

It's certainly used in technical fields

Cerberus

Kosmo did object to "a software", which is used very frequently by people on the internet.

user19161

So after I come back all my 12 stars are gone from the wall?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:36

@WillHunting lesson learned: do not come back. No wait...

user19161

Oh that's because there were many stars in the past few hours.

Matt Эллен

lol

Cerberus

Protip: if you want to be liked, don't show it!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I don't want to be liked, may I show that?

Cerberus

Yes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:36

shows that

Cerberus

You've already shown that amply in the past.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I plan on showing some more in the future.

Matt Эллен

and yet we still like you

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I suppose that's in line with Cerberuae's theory.

Cerberus

Yeah, in this case counter-productivity is desirable.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:38

Counter productivity is exceptionally desirable for clerks.

user19161

This week people seem to be talkative.

KitFox

Why can't I timestamp? Am I really this stupid?

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Are you Jasper or is it the other guy?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Seven.

Cerberus

All seven?

Or just three?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:39

No. Not all. Duh.

user19161

Your jokes are too deep for me.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox Debug.Print(new DateTime());

and have the debug console open

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I usually don't mistype "all seven" as, well, not "all seven".

Feb 23 '11 at 15:14, by Kosmonaut

I like to tell myself that if you have to explain it, it means it was sophisticated.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Wow, that's more than a year ago!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

That's OVER 9000 days!

Cerberus

16:41

@RegDwightѬſ道 I know, I know.

KitFox

@MattЭллен I keep getting 0.

user19161

Wow Fowler is listed in the OALD. oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/…

Cerberus

I keep getting seven.

He has done that ever since I first came here.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox hmmm

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Whodunnit?

Whatchatalkin?

KitFox

16:42

@MattЭллен And New DateTime() comes out as 12:00:00AM. WTF?

Cerberus

@WillHunting Of course. Fowler is the best.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

But is he listed as the best?

KitFox

Oh, wait.

user19161

@Cerberus Do you still recommend reading it today or is it outdated?

Cerberus

Most other style guides are dull and written in mediocre style.

@WillHunting Parts of it are outdated, parts aren't.

@RegDwightѬſ道 1. Fowler is the best.

There.

JSBᾶngs

16:43

@KitFox that's to be expected. when you do new DateTime you get a default time. if you want the current time, use DateTime.Now.

user19161

@Cerberus 2. Cerberus is the best actually.

Cerberus

OMG JSB is a computer!!

KitFox

@JSBᾶngs Yeah, that's why I had the Oh wait later, but still it's not calculating correctly.

Cerberus

He dropped his human accent for a second there.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox Or just type DateTime.Usages for help.

JSBᾶngs

16:44

don't listen to @Reg

Cerberus

@WillHunting Thanks!! But no, Fowler wins hands down.

user19161

@Cerberus I noticed Fowler contains owl.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs catch up, little tomato.

Mahnax

@Cerberus frowns at unnecessary exclamation point

RegDwight Ѭſ道

11 mins ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Mar 25 '11 at 15:20, by JSBangs

244 usages, alas

Cerberus

16:45

@WillHunting Fowler has everything.

user19161

@Mahnax OMG!

Mahnax

@WillHunting What?

Cerberus

@Mahnax It was meant to express excessive emotion.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox Heh, I guess I'd never thought about that. I assumed a new date time would be the current time. JSB knows what he's talking about

Mahnax

@Cerberus disagrees quietly

KitFox

16:46

@MattЭллен Well, I figured that out fast enough, but it's still giving me pains.

user19161

I think this picture of MC looks a little like aedia.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox pain is countable now?

Or do you mean French breads?

Cerberus

@Mahnax I.e. it was ironic.

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightѬſ道 pains have always been countable

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Always has been.

JSBᾶngs

16:46

@Kit Jinx

Mahnax

@Cerberus If you say so.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs so have been usages.

KitFox

@JSBᾶngs hands coke

Cerberus

I don't think Reg was serious, people.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/pain

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:47

Dear doctor. I have two pains.

Yeah.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Now you sound ironic...

Doctor, I have this weird pain!

Where?

Mahnax

@Cerberus How so?

Cerberus

Everywhere!

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus is Reg ever serious?

user19161

@Cerberus My perineum.

Cerberus

16:48

On your stomach?

Yes.

Knee?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I have been seven serious so far.

Cerberus

Yes.

Hand?

Yes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Cerberus, you suck at jokes.

user19161

I don't even suck lollipops.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's torture. Torture!

Cerberus

16:49

Arg I give up, chat is blocking half my lines.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

What a pity

Cerberus

Silence.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I wish I knew how many more pains you had.

KitFox

headdesk

user19161

In Soviet Russia, lollipops suck you.

Gigili

16:49

Who sucks at jokes?

Cerberus

You are a pain in the non-genitals.

3

Gigili

I always look for someone who sucks at jokes.

Cerberus

And I don't want that starred, or I will remove it.

user19161

I have no idea which message each message is referring to now.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting Yeah. Except it's Comrade Lollipop to you.

Gigili

16:50

Please email me ASAP.

KitFox

So a doctor, a lawyer, and a priest walk into a bar, and the bartender says...

"What is this, some kind of joke?"

Gigili

@KitFox Is that bartender your ex?

Cerberus

Haha.

I know that one.

KitFox

@Gigili My ex was not that clever.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's funnier if you don't tell it.

Cerberus

16:51

NOU

KitFox

Now my feelings are hurt.

user19161

Is that the end of the joke?

Cerberus

Yes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox how many hurts?

Cerberus

Never ask that!

Mahnax

16:52

@RegDwightѬſ道 Seven.

KitFox

No, eight.

user19161

I don't understand the joke.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I thought it was less. And then it was fewer.

Mahnax

@KitFox Eight out of seven.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting you should make yourself a macro for that.

Or are you using one right now?

Cerberus

16:53

@WillHunting Many jokes start with "an x, a y, and a z walk into a bar", where xyz are professions or countries.

user19161

Can someone explain the joke to me please?

Gigili

The funny part is that you laugh even though you don't get it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Kit is funny. End of explanation.

Cerberus

So the bartender in the joke recognised the situation as the typical beginning of a joke.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Except for Anonymous. He prefers MrShiny.

Cerberus

16:54

Hehe.

user19161

Ah I see, these jokes are so lame. Unlike mine.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

He's shiny, new, and now funny as well. This guy will stop at nothing.

Cerberus

Nah it was quite funneh.

KitFox

It's insane, this guy's taint.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

He's on a roll.

Cerberus

16:54

How do you mean she's shiny?

She's hiny.

KitFox

Oh. Huh. Out of context, that's probably kinda strange.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

On a payroll, even. And his earnings exceed those of most people!

Cerberus

Taint?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Reminds me of meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/99062/…

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Funny as in strange, not haha.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

16:56

@WillHunting talk to the KITT cuz the Hoff ain't listening.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Oh God, meta.SO really is an awful place. Remind me to never go there.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

What? It was fun.

Mahnax

@Cerberus That question is one giant joke.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I haven't visited in ages. But it used to be fun.

Cerberus

Oh...

Mahnax

16:57

The OP is trying to get rid of his rep.

KitFox

Not gonna happen on meta.

Cerberus

See, I can't even tell, because it might as well have been serious.

user19161

@Mahnax I laughed.

Cerberus

Meta equals bickering for me.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus but that is the meta joke!

user19161

16:57

@KitFox Well, it is the rep on MSO!

Mahnax

Notice how he gave out 2550 rep worth of bounties on that question, @Cerb.

Cerberus

Oh well.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Hence the name, Meta.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh yeah? Then it ain't funny!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So what? You pretend our jokes are funny?

user19161

16:58

MSO rep is real rep unlike other metas.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Huh, bounties on Meta?

@RegDwightѬſ道 If I have to.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yeah. MSO actually has a normal rep system.

Cerberus

Oh.

Mahnax

You have much to learn, padawan.

Cerberus

So bickering is even rewarded...

user19161

16:59

Mr Shiny is shiny and Matt is matt.

Gigili

@WillHunting How you know it?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…