English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

JSBᾶngs

14:03

@Kit why you feelin so bad?

KitFox

I haven't slept much in the last three days, I'm back to the same damn error that I don't know how to resolve, and I just heard my husband losing his temper with the boys.

The day is kinda crappy so far.

I hate being sick.

Plus, most of this server admin stuff is over my head. Somebody else really needs to do this stuff. I don't have the credentials.

Or the know-how.

Matt Эллен

Yeah. you need a sysadmin

and a dbadmin

or they need them, I should say

KitFox

The thing is, the don't have one. Not really anyway. They might have hired a new IT manager by now though.

But the last time I had this problem, when I was actually working there, the manager just kind of shrugged and said "I don't know how to fix it."

And that was that. Project abandoned.

Matt Эллен

nice

KitFox

So I guess that is adding to my stress level.

Matt Эллен

14:11

aye

KitFox

Maybe a nice hot shower and some cold pizza will clear my head.

Matt Эллен

mmmmm, hot shower

user19161

@KitFox Actually I rather have a cold shower and hot pizza!

user19161

@KitFox Well, take things one at a time, and remember to breathe.

Robusto

@WillHunting Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer hot shower, hot pizza. Also, cold beer.

user19161

14:23

@Robusto I prefer cold water to cold beer. But tea should be hot.

KitFox

thinks about beer

user19161

Also, I drink all four combinations of tea and coffee with and without milk.

aedia λ

Mmm, coffee.

user19161

This is getting silly...

KitFox

If I tell the systems people that I need the server to trust my computer so I can establish a data connection, I wonder if that's enough info for them to fix the problem.

Matt Эллен

14:29

it's worth a try!

user19161

Always try; never say never!

Matt Эллен

never always; say! try never

KitFox

I've got to go through my liaison for that. thinks about what to do in the meantime

Gigili

Never try to say always.

user19161

@MattЭллен Parsing error.

Matt Эллен

14:31

@WillHunting parse harder

user19161

This gives me excuse to post a favourite song!

user19161

►

Robusto

Why is it only Thursday?

user19161

@Robusto Sometimes it is the wait that is exciting. Sometimes it is the journey that matters, not the destination.

Matt Эллен

Daylight savings. they added an extra day to compensate for losing light

KitFox

14:37

Because you hurt Friday's feelings.

0

Q: "It is I," versus, "I am it"

In predicate nominatives, I was taught that you use the subject pronoun on either side. In other words. All of these sentences therefore sound right: I am it. It is I. You are it. It is you. We are it. It is we. He is it. It is he. They are it. It is they. Why does "he" get the same...

Gen ref?

Robusto

►

Tom Petty disagrees.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox NARQ

Gen-ref is too mild.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I suppose, although the answer allays some of the asker's misapprehensions, they might be localised to him.

KitFox

Feels like if you know how to conjugate "to be," then there's not really a question.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 why is it NARQ?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:44

@MattЭллен what Kit says.

Matt Эллен

I see

OK

KitFox

I suppose he might be confused because he doesn't know that "It" is the subject in the second set of sentences.

user19161

So today when the man at the Mac store was trying to promote the Mac to me he said: Mac does not freeze, Mac needs no antivirus, Mac can search for things more easily. I then told him about Linux. Also at that moment the Mac chose to freeze. Hahaha.

2

KitFox

Still, seems like ESL to me.

Vitaly

so in BBC: The Tube they are saying that they let an owl into a station to deter the pigeons and it apparently didn't work because the next night someone took a picture of a pigeon sitting on the owl's head. now why was that so hard to put that picture on the Web?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:47

He has: Pronoun + corresponding form of to be + it, vs. It is + any pronoun. In the latter, the verb is always is, so it makes no sense to ask about that one. And in the former, you use the corresponding form of to be, so asking why you're using the corresponding form of to be is pointless as well.

KitFox

@WillHunting Yeah, but Mac has a larger user base than Linux, and they both run on the Linux kernel.

user19161

@Vitaly Maybe they were just bullshitting about the pigeon on the owl.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly maybe they couldn't get the rights to use it?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Here is my pattern, it is supposed to work as follows, why does my pattern work the way it is supposed to work?

Robusto

Macs do freeze. Whoever the "genius" was who claimed otherwise is an idiot.

Matt Эллен

14:49

@WillHunting mmmmm, poetic justice

KitFox

2+2 = 4
1+3 = 4
So why is the answer 4 for both of these?

user19161

@Robusto Well, he was probably using my favourite device, the hyperbole.

KitFox

I prefer parabole.

Robusto

@WillHunting I thought your favorite device was a Linux box.

KitFox

I was considering asking for a Mac at the place where I consult, just to watch their heads explode.

Robusto

14:50

BTW, Linux boxes freeze too.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox a more than valid reason

Robusto

I've only had one BSOD in Windows 7, btw, and I use it every day.

KitFox

And then when they asked me why I needed it, I could tell them because it would facilitate communication with the Linux server they needed to install.

Matt Эллен

which is true

KitFox

@Robusto I've had one or two, but sometimes it just stops. Supposedly it has something to do with the solid state architecture.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:52

@KitFox it's more like "a + b = c, but also c = b + a, so why is it b in both cases?"

KitFox

@MattЭллен It would be really funny.

Matt Эллен

indeed :D

KitFox

"No authentication protocol was available." I don't envy the new guy.

He's got a huge mess to sort out.

Matt Эллен

new guy? is this still for SSPI error?

KitFox

Yes. Sort of.

Apparently, my remote laptop is connecting in some weird way. Probably the same for many of the computers on the network.

Anyway, I'm switching out for my other. BRB.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:56

Why do we have people jumping on this?

-1

Q: Is this sentence correct as a heading on a software message?

Is the following message grammatically correct as a heading for a software success message: Data for last day processed.

heading

Three answers and only one vote to close. I am disappoint.

BRB cooking.

KitFox

Holla.

Some days I think I might have too many computers.

aedia λ

Nonsense.

KitFox

I've got three in my bed right now. Hardly any room for me.

2

Matt Эллен

unless you have 100, in your attic, and you don't run a computer museum in your attic, then you're fine

KitFox

I thought computers operated by cat rules.

Matt Эллен

15:01

maybe they do! I don't have a cat, so I can't test this hypothesis

user19161

Also, many things are computers. A computer is anything that computes.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting well, in UK law they are strictly defined for import/export purposes. I don't know the definition off hand

KitFox

Well, that means the number of computers minus two determines the factor of your insanity.

user19161

Computer

A computer is a programmable machine designed to automatically carry out a sequence of arithmetic or logical operations. The particular sequence of operations can be changed readily, allowing the computer to solve more than one kind of problem. An important class of computer operations on some computing platforms is the accepting of input from human operators and the output of results formatted for human consumption. The interface between the computer and the human operator is known as the user interface. Conventionally a computer consists of some form of memory, at least one element ...

Matt Эллен

@KitFox what if I'm just looking after one for my parents?

KitFox

15:03

One is fine. That's why you subtract two from the total. Two is within the bounds of normalcy.

Matt Эллен

ok

so including the one I'm looking after, my factor is 3

unless you include my DS

then it's 4

and maybe my phone?

KitFox

DS? No, that's a different category.

Matt Эллен

it's more powerful than one of my laptops

KitFox

That's part of the pet algorithm.

Matt Эллен

ah

KitFox

15:06

But not cat rules.

JSBᾶngs

are we counting computers?

my house had more computers than people for a while

Matt Эллен

oh, wait, it is 4

KitFox

Well, I was suggesting that computers follow cat rules, so the number you have (minus two) determines your factor of insanity.

JSBᾶngs

do i have to count the broken one that's downstairs? what about my work laptop?

KitFox

That might need adjustment though. We've got my three plus the desktop plus my husband's and the paperweight on the porch.

user19161

15:07

Also, the guy on Minute To Win It failed at the last round on TV, so he won only 100k instead of 1 million.

Matt Эллен

also?

also to what?

KitFox

Maybe 2*number of household members could be the allotment for standard normalcy.

user19161

@MattЭллен "Also" means "in other news".

Matt Эллен

I dispute that

but ok

aedia λ

@JSBᾶngs My house has way more computers than people... as does my office

@JSBᾶngs Oh gosh let's not count the broken ones

Matt Эллен

15:09

my desk has more computers than people

user19161

I have two pillows.

KitFox

My contact person copied me on an email, and she did that thing that makes me crazy: "if not, can you please advise as to who she should contact?"

She also uses "as per."

Matt Эллен

mmmmm, mangementy

KitFox

She's an interesting person to work with.

I like her quite a bit, but she's tempestuous.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I use as per. Ad astr.

KitFox

15:11

Funny.

Matt Эллен

pollo ad astra

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I will always write, "ur questchan no gud as per the FAQ".

KitFox

Dood y u misspel "kweschun"?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

2 b suffistickatead.

KitFox

oic

Gotta check in with the fam. bbl

Matt Эллен

15:14

ciao!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Sea yo.

user19161

I never use "as per" because I am not too sure what it means.

user19161

I only know "as per" = "I-j+space".

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 I don't think it's proofreading.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It is in its current form.

Mitch

15:23

Also, why do you delete answers in addition to closing. None of those answers were flaggable (maybe not great but they were legitimate answers). Just close...that sends enough of a message. If it's bad enough of a question, we'll delete the entire thing. There are all sorts of dumber questions lately that should be closed before this one (no I don't think this is that great a question either but it is answerable).

But the OP is not asking for proofreading, they just want to know if it is grammatical or not (or at least you can't know either way).

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Answering an off-topic question sends the wrong message.

@Mitch And that is expressly off-topic as per the FAQ.

I am not making the rules. I am, however, enforcing them.

Mitch

But, like with all these judgements, everybody has different opinions, let the rules and voting decide.

none of those answers was flaggable, why delete them?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch Sure, and that's what I usually do.

Gigili

@Mitch There were five people here who agreed with him.

Mitch

we don't know the arbitrary times when something will be judged off-topic, so how is that fair to delete useful answers for that?

user19161

15:26

@Gigili Really? I did not count.

Gigili

Also, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch It is not arbitrary. I take offense.

Gigili

@WillHunting I live to count.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili what would you give to be bipedal?

user19161

@Gigili I don't think there were five though.

Gigili

15:27

Yes, there were more. But five is enough.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The FAQ clearly says, "But please, don’t ask any questions about these topics. They are out of scope for this site. - Please proofread my document ('are there any mistakes in this text?')"

Mitch

Sorry for the offense, but since I disagree with your judgement, it makes me think your judgement was arbitrary (choosing to think it was proofreading rather than a viable alternative)

user19161

@Gigili Er, now I know you clearly cannot count. QED.

Gigili

@MattЭллен Please, I'm stressed up. It's right on the top of my tongue.

Mitch

@Gigili which 5? I see only Matt and then Reg as moderator closing.

user19161

15:28

@Mitch Maybe she's just joking.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch We have been closing questions of this kind for months. This is not new. I am surprised to have you answer it in the first place.

Matt Эллен

Obviously I'm in agreement with Reg. It is asking "Find any mistakes for me", which is off topic

user19161

Joke

A is something spoken, written, or done with humorous intention. Jokes may have many different forms, e.g., a single word or a gesture (considered in a particular context), a question-answer, or a whole short story. The word "joke" has . To achieve their end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punch line, i.e. an ending to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken one in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placing salt in the sugar bowl). Purpose Jokes are typically ...

Matt Эллен

@Gigili well, I guess your left foot?

Mitch

@MattЭллен I disagree.

Gigili

15:29

@WillHunting I'm not joking. Talk for yourself.

Mitch

I also disagree about deleting answers.

user19161

@Gigili OK.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch what was it asking then if not for what mistakes there were?

Mitch

close the question outright, allow reopen votes, and allow delete votes, but don't delete answers, unless they are flaggable.

Gigili

@Mitch Kit, Matt, Me, Aedia, Reg ...

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:30

@Mitch Again, deleting answers is not my usual modus operandi. But I wanted to send a strong message, and it looks like I succeeded.

user19161

@Mitch I certainly disagree with downvoting answers simply because the question was deemed as general reference for example.

Gigili

And I guess all the others in the room agree with him but they're not available.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Feb 11 '11 at 16:19, by Kosmonaut

Someone could ask for a recipe for a really tasty egg salad sandwich and probably get at least one answer before it could be closed.

Mitch

@MattЭллен aren't all grammar questions about a mistake? Here's a sentence, proofread it for me? You're reading too much into what the OP wants (or at least you're reading something different than me.).

user19161

@Gigili My silence does not mean I agree, nor does it mean I disagree. I just have not thought about it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:31

@Mitch well, what is OP's specific question?

JSBᾶngs

@Mitch there are lots of grammar questions which aren't about mistakes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Don't guess, tell me exactly what his problem with the sentence is.

Mitch

@Gigili Where were those names in the voting list? For that question I only see Matt and Reg as votes to close.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch they're not all asking the general question "spot any mistake" they're normally (well the open ones) asking "is this particular point of grammar being violated" which is different.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 OK, I'm guessing (that it is a simple grammar question), but then so are you (that it is proofreading).

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:33

Well I am not guessing.

In the absence of a specific question about a specific problem, it is proofreading.

We can find a better term if you insist.

The point is that it's off-topic.

Not what we call it.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 OK. but with that same attitude, if I were moderator, I'd be claiming a whole bunch of questions way off-topic, and any answer deletable.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I am not claiming a whole bunch of questions way off-topic. I am enforcing the rules set forth by the community and outlined in our FAQ.

Mitch

with the aid of your own personal judgement as to how a question fits those rules.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Would you be happier if I undelete the answers only to delete the question wholesale?

user19161

Actually what is happening here is that every thing we do is based on opinion. So we need 5 votes to close. But sometimes the mod feels particularly strongly about something so he closes it before that happens. So if there are people who think it should not be closed then we just reopen. Simple.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:36

@WillHunting That's the idea. Ask the OP for clarification, edit it into shape, reopen.

Which is precisely why the question itself is still up.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 I'd be happier if you didn't delete answers. Close if you must, but if it gets voted to be reopened, then there's still something there.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch in that case I'd obviously undelete the answers. That goes without saying.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 That doesn't go without saying.

user19161

Honestly I also feel that perhaps @reg shouldn't close questions so quickly sometimes or delete the answers.

Mitch

It looks like the answers are gone forever.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:38

10k users can still see them.

In fact I think 20k users can vote to undelete.

Gigili

What about 5k users?

user19161

Maybe 30k users can see the question before it is even asked.

4

aedia λ

It's not a new thing for Reg to catch proofreading questions before the rest of us. Here's one from a year ago:

0

Q: Is this a correct sentence?

Knowledge for pursuit of truth. Is the above a correct sentence?

grammaticality

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Gigili They can approve tag wiki edits.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili they can imagine what the answers used to look like

user19161

15:40

@Gigili You can read the FAQ for more info on the various privileges too.

Mitch

@WillHunting I feel he should close lots of questions (maybe the one we're talking about), but to delete the answers is overboard. Reg is feeding one rule into the next inappropriately. close a question autocratically, but because of that deicisino don't then punish the answeres for not knowing it's a closed question.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@aediaλ yeah. That should be deleted, too.

Gigili

Just ask 11 people in this room if they agree with Reg or not @Mitch.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch perhaps I should also mention that many people are, frankly, not amused by other people getting reputation from off-topic stuff.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 Yes, I can see the deleted ones just fine (otherwise I would just be struggling with memory issues whether I really posted or not)

@Gigili That's what the voting mechanism is already there for.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:43

@Gigili straw polls don't really count.

Matt Эллен

maybe there needs to be something about this here:

13

Q: People answering off-topic questions: What should we do?

It happens sometimes that when I vote to close a question which is evidently Off Topic, some user posts an answer. I know it might be legit (although honestly I'm not sure on this), but this unavoidably encourages other people to do the same. This consequently leads to Off Topic questions stayin...

discussion answers

aedia λ

@RegDwightѬſ道 I know, but it serves as a beautiful example of how you've been linking FAQ and meta for these poor benighted souls since basically forever.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 I totally get that. But (modulo moderators) no one (or the system) doesn't know if a question is off topic until enough people choose so. if the system then says that all the rep accumulated is then removed for closed questions, then that's the system. But deleting the full record of things -before- that choice is made...well it could be reopened and then rep reinstated.

user19161

@MattЭллен Also, what is off-topic to one person may not be so to another. And sometimes one cannot decide on the nature of the question and may also answer and closevote at the same time. But there is no big problem really.

Matt Эллен

if a problem falls in a chat room and no one is around to argue, is it a big problem?

Gigili

15:47

Define big problem

user19161

Perhaps we are all spending 9000 hours discussing a problem that does not even cause 9000 picoseconds to be lost.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili one that is bigger than your head

Gigili

@MattЭллен So you can recognize what a big problem is, why do you ask?

user19161

I think this week is a very good week for me in terms of the chat stars I received.

user19161

@mahnax Boo!

Mahnax

15:49

@WillHunting Hi!

Matt Эллен

@Gigili to philosophise

user19161

@Mahnax I was out looking at some Macs just now just for fun only.

Gigili

@MattЭллен That took more than one minute, I won.

Matt Эллен

OK :D

Mahnax

@WillHunting Cool! There is an Apple store in Singapore, then? Or is it a third party retailer?

user19161

15:52

@Mahnax Er, not sure what you mean. But there are several stores here selling only Apple products.

Mahnax

@WillHunting Do they look anything like that?

Cerberus

@Will: Generally, people who work in stores where popular products are sold don't know much.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 Instead of deleting an answer to something you think is off topic, just download or make a comment to that affect. Deleting it removes it from consideration altogether.

user19161

@Mahnax I can't recall the details. But isn't that how all stores look like? I can't remember if the big apple was in front though.

Cerberus

@Mitch Do you have a problem with deleting answers in general, or one in particular?

Mahnax

15:54

@WillHunting Hmm, okay. Did they let you try out the computers at the store?

user19161

@Mitch You mean "downvote" and "effect" I think!

user19161

@Mahnax Certainly!

Mitch

@Cerberus I think answers that are bad in and of themselves should be deleted.

Mahnax

@WillHunting And did you like them?

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah OK. Then...

Mitch

15:55

@WillHunting argh...of course, yes.

Cerberus

@WillHunting Why did you go to that store?

user19161

@Mahnax Well, I think I may still prefer Windows...

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch and I do just that day in, day out. But I have to set priorities, too. I just can't be babysitting every user, especially not 10k users who should know better.

Mahnax

@WillHunting Hm, why is that?

user19161

@Cerberus I like window shopping!

Cerberus

15:56

Going in ≠ window shopping.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's one thing if I am not sure if a question is off-topic, or how it can be improved. But it's a different thing entirely when it's a question expressly ruled out by our FAQ.

user19161

@Mahnax Maybe because I am already used to windows and nothing spectacular about mac marvelled me.

aedia λ

@Cerberus People totally use window shopping to mean looking without the intent to buy. Here, anyway.

Mahnax

@WillHunting Okay, I understand that.

Mitch

I understand that as an admonition to me as a>10K user. I of course disagree about the assessment of the OQ.

Matt Эллен

15:57

@aediaλ yeah, browsing and window shopping are close enough

user19161

@aediaλ Phew!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mitch well, what is your assessment of the OQ? I keep asking you that, and you keep begging the question.

Gigili

user19161

@Mitch This is the first time in my life I see OQ instead of OP!

Matt Эллен

@Gigili OMG WTF BBQ

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:59

@Gigili they have way better ones in Russia. I'll post a couple when I have the time to search for them.

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