English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

01:15

@Cerberus 'No?'?

Mazura

03:14

I don't get this question: Hyphenating “Evolution” Those dots in between the letters of a word showing its pronunciation are hyphens?

Cerberus

05:28

@Mitch You asked me, "when someone says "common weal", you don't think of Cromwell's Commonwealth?".

And my answer was, "no, I don't", with a question mark added to indicate that your question surprised me.

See how logical everything is?

Tonepoet

05:45

@Cerberus Although perhaps the question mark can be used to indicate surprise, that role falls outside its job as a terminal punctuation mark and belongs more to its role as a standalone symbol. The difference is that I would expect it to be used independent of any context, more like this:

Granted, in that case, it's probably more a symbol of mystery than surprise, but it could be argued that what's inside the box is a surprise.

The Raiders of Las Vegas

It has many meanings.

It is commonly used for the abbreviation of "what does here?" As in 2 + 2 = ?

Or it can be put above the equals sign, to mean: Is this a true statement?

"What ~~does~~ goes here" (to make this a true statement)?

Martin AJ

08:33

Which one is correct?

- Does anybody have any idea how can I do that?
- Does anybody has any idea how can I do that?

M.A.R.

@MartinAJ because you've already used "does", you don't need to use "has"

Martin AJ

got it

thx

Sayros

Hi all

Martin AJ

hi you

M.A.R.

@Sayros hi

Sayros

08:44

\o/

user288256

09:02

@MartinAJ "Does anybody have any idea how ~~can~~ I can do that?" is what I would say.

Martin AJ

10:38

@Ghalib I see, thx

Which one is correct?

- Have you told me that before?
- Have you tole that to me before?

terdon

10:49

@MartinAJ may I ask why you don't ask these questions in the English Language Learners room?

But, anyway, you want the first of those.

Martin AJ

you know, I'm familiar with guys in here ...

@terdon and what you mean "you want the first of those"? You mean both are correct and have different meanings?

terdon

No, I mean only the first is correct.

Idiomatic, anyway.

Martin AJ

aha ok

skullpatrol

I agree.

Note the typo in the second one.

~~tole~~ told

Martin AJ

good catch :-)

skullpatrol

11:01

:-)

user288256

12:18

@Tonepoet "hold their hands (because keyboard)" not "tongue". =)

user288256

I'm just joking, I know what you mean.

user288256

@Mitch Could be a caring dad.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib You know, I could try to weasel my way out of that by saying that language is etymologically derived from lingua, which is latin for tongue, but you're right. I usually try to catch something like that and adjust the phrasing accordingly. Well, except for Mitch. I am almost certain his tongue is involved with his method of typing. >_>

user288256

haha

user288256

Well, I am like that too. I talk to people here, not converse with them apparently.

user288256

12:29

If this was reddit I would definitely get a reply saying "You are a pedantic a**hole".

user288256

=)

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I'm sometimes on the receiving ends of such comments too, although people tend to consider pedant to be pejorative enough. XP

user288256

Ah yes.

user288256

That's true.

terdon

@Ghalib If we were to start pointing out pedantic assholes in this chat, it would never end. That describes most of us.

user288256

12:38

Heh.

tchrist

to nickel and dime someone to death

Is that nickeling and diming someone to death or is it instead nickel and diming someone to death?

Tonepoet

@tchrist I know nickle and dime usually means to be too cheap, but I have to admit tchrist, that when you collocate that with "to death" it seems like a method of stoning somebody, except with coins. =P

tchrist

40

Q: A fun, catchy way to say the opposite of a 'no-brainer'?

A no-brainer is "something that requires a minimum of thought" (Merriam-Webster). I could use some help with a catchy way of saying the opposite. Sample sentence: "I have to make a decision and it is definitely not a no-brainer, in fact, it's a real ___________." I almost want to say, "...it'...

Why is that still open?

Since when do we invent fun, catchy ways to say things without being Too Broad or Primarily Opinion Based?

I seem to have mistaken ELU for Slowguns-Я-Us.stackexchange.com

Well, or someone has.

Tonepoet

@tchrist Since we've added the exemplary sentence requisite to restrain the applicability of words.

tchrist

@Tonepoet I stand unfazed.

0

Q: Catchy phrase to express or mean "always in stock/no back orders etc"

I'm looking for a neat phrase to coin the message of 'we're never out of stock of a product' or 'We always ship all of your order, no back orders' etc. Best I can come up with so far myself, is, 'Delivered In Full'.

phrases

Tonepoet

12:55

@tchrist Well you do have to admit, that at least in a true single-word-request it restricts it to a noun, instead of having people list two dozen adjectives.

tchrist

51

Q: Single word requests, crosswords, and the fight against mediocrity

A call to action This topic has been brought up here numerous times before, most recently by JSBangs: I'm now of the opinion that single word requests should be either disallowed entirely or subject to much more stringent requirements. The reasons are as follows: We get lots of...

discussion featured appropriate-questions single-word-requests scope

Tonepoet

The next thing that needs to be done is make people realize that a single-word-request should really just be a single word when the phrase-request tag isn't added.

@tchrist Okay tchrist, explain to me, what's wrong with crossword puzzle solving?

tchrist

@Tonepoet It trivializes us. It leads to no single correct answer. It is not something that will help others in the future. It is of no interest to linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts.

Think of it this way: Stack Overflow doesn’t accept codegolf questions, so why should we?

Tonepoet

They don't?

tchrist

@Tonepoet Correct.

There's a different site for that, codegolf.stackexchange.com

Tonepoet

13:00

I know I've seen code golf questions somewhere on Stack Exchange. I've never seen the phrase used anywhere else.

Oh.

@tchrist That seems largely irrelevant to the applicable close reason though. If these questions were inherently too broad or P.O.B., they'd be banned network wide.

terdon

@Tonepoet They are neither. They're just off topic on SO. Such questions are games, they are not practical. In fact, they're pretty much as impractical as it gets. SO is for actual programming questions, codegolf is its own thing.

Tonepoet

@tchrist I'm not so sure they don't help others, but too localized was discarded as a matter of S.E. policy long ago, and too narrow was also rejected because it was considered too subjective of a matter to decide upon fairly. I'd argue that syntax is much less useful to native speakers than vocabulary.

terdon

Too localized wasn't discarded, just renamed to "non reproducible" on most sites.

Hmm. Make that some sites.

Tonepoet

@terdon I'm pretty sure non-reproducable is different and less applicable than too localized was generally.

terdon

@Tonepoet Yes. It is, but a few tech sites introduced the non-repro close reason to replace the too localized one. Same general idea. But they are custom reasons, so my argument is moot. I thought they were default ones.

Tonepoet

13:11

@terdon Right. I've been Reading and Rereading the War of the closes blog post. We have three network-wide close reasons and allow three custom ones.

tchrist

We've never allowed games and puzzles on ELU.

Or punchlines.

Tonepoet

@tchrist Your folly is in mentioning punchlines. The help center expressly mentions that jokes which do not rely on the english language are off-topic, which implies that jokes which do are on-topic. 'Tis the exception that proves the rule. We allow pun questions.

Granted, perhaps you mean something else, but still...

tchrist

Tonepoet

@tchrist I can't read the help center going that far back.

terdon

13:26

@Tonepoet How does that follow? If I hang a sign that says that "Dogs are not allowed", that doesn't imply that elephants are welcome. Just because one thing is explicitly off topic, does not mean that everything else is implicitly on topic.

Tonepoet

@tchrist More importantly though, answering that question would have more to do with explaining Buddhist philosophy than the semantics of the word One, which is probably why it was closed. I do not think jokes are closed on the sole basis that they are jokes regularly. I've seen joke questions before.

terdon

If your question is about the English language as used in a joke's punchline, the fact that it's a joke is secondary anyway. It's a question about English. But that doesn't mean we can post "Kno-Knock. Who's there?" as a question and expect to get jokes as answers.

Tonepoet

@terdon It's a legal principle. Consider a sign that says "No parking on Sundays". The reason it says "on sundays" instead of just "no parking" is because it's meant to restrict the rule to just that one day. Also, if I was a renter and saw a no dogs allowed sign, I would presume my pet cat doesn't preclude me from eligibility for renting the apartment on the same principle, otherwise it'd say no pets.

Mitch

And explaining a joke, even if a pun or based on English language, is still off topic.

It's like proofreading.

If there is a linguistic question about a particular phenomenon that is in the joke, sure, that's on topic

@tchrist Nickeling is the worst

I think the syntax pattern is like possessives, you could do both but just the last one is preferred.

Tonepoet

@terdon But also, more importantly, an exception to a rule proves the existence of the rule. If I have a "no dogs" sign, it stands to reason that it means "animals are allowed, except dogs".

terdon

13:36

9 mins ago, by terdon

If your question is about the English language as used in a joke's punchline, the fact that it's a joke is secondary anyway. It's a question about English. But that doesn't mean we can post "Kno-Knock. Who's there?" as a question and expect to get jokes as answers.

Tonepoet

@terdon Right.

But you asked a question, and @tchrist's statement could be interpreted as meaning that the fact a joke is involved precludes it from being on-topic. We frequently close questions based on poetry and song lyrics for a similar rational.

Mitch

@Tonepoet Negative knowledge by definition has no data to support it. It's only a feeling. As a meta culture, how you analyze such negative knowledge can go in many directions. It could be interpreted 'No parking on Sundays' as 'people don't bother parking here any other time, but on Sundays you really shouldn't park here'.

for that particular instance, I agree with you that it's probably OK, without any other notices, that parking on other days is OK. But other instances may be interpreted differently and other cultures may interpret all these entirely different.

terdon

For example, it might mean that you shouldn't park your car on the Sundaes.

user288256

@Mitch so, if I had a question about not understanding a joke in English or a pun etc. where would I go?

user288256

Don't say "chat". :)

Tonepoet

13:50

@Mitch Well of course ignorance has no data to support it. =P More seriously though, this is standard rules interpretation as far as prominently English cultures is concerned. If you want no jokes, you say no jokes instead of setting a qualifier. If I wrote a sign that said "No large dogs allowed", I can't complain when somebody walks in with a chihuahua.

Mitch

@terdon petitions city representative for sign, a delicious, creamy sign

@Ghalib Did you see the closed and deleted Dalai Lama joke above?

Great joke. Not on-topic here.

user288256

No, I didn't.

user288256

Let me go through it.

Mitch

How about quora or reddit or yahoo answers?

user288256

Yes.

Mitch

13:52

@Tonepoet standard? where did you read that rule?

Hah!

user288256

Or Wordreference perhaps.

Mitch

hahahah!

55555!

user288256

kkkkkk!

user288256

jajajaja!

Mitch

@Ghalib When I first showed up, I was often perturbed about the many questions I had that were not on-topic with exactly the same rejoinder, "Where if not here? (since ELU seemed the best place for it or rather all the other places seemed so much worse)"

user288256

13:54

@Mitch so what did you do to solve the issue?

Tonepoet

@Mitch That joke isn't on-topic here, but that doesn't stand to reason that all jokes aren't on-topic here. Nothing proves that the joke necessarily has anything to do with English.

Mitch

There is an unfortunate tendency towards Talmudic interpretation in a quest for purity.

user288256

Did you get used to it?

Mitch

which I think goes too far.

@Ghalib I realized that some of those questions were not on-topic.

I still wish for a 'dumb question' place, but then they will be filled with dumbness.

it's self contradictory I know.

@Tonepoet Argh. It's not the particular joke, it's the kind of question about jokes.

Just like interpreting lyrics is off topic, joke explanation is off-topic

Tonepoet

@Mitch Can you prove that?

Let's ask Jeff! v_v

user288256

13:58

@Mitch Can I say both "did you get used to it" and "you got used to it?" to mean the same thing?

depperm

Several english words/names are based on hebrew and can be broken apart and have a meaning. is there a book that has a bunch of these (etymology)? Is there a site that would be better to ask on? I'm thinking of names like Michael->mi -who, ke-like, el-God...one who is like God

Mitch

There are lots of goood questions that can come from a lyric. Lots of bad ones too. The usual "What does this mean?" is generally a poor question.

user288256

I am thinking I can?

user288256

Argh. I got tweened. =)

Mitch

@Ghalib the second is more informal but is OK

user288256

13:58

okay, thanks.

Mitch

@Ghalib haha yes

me too

@depperm there are many many sites that discuss name-meanings.

It is unlikely you'd have a name that hasn't been analyzed to death somewhere else.

Tonepoet

@Mitch Most questions are generally poor though.

Mitch

Also, most of those kinds of names are actually not native to English but borrowed (through a long process) from Biblical Hebrew.

Arjun

Hi!

Mitch

@depperm google for name meanings

Arjun

14:05

I wnt ask quesion? I is poor englesh. Halp plz!

Mitch

no problem. go ahead and see what happens.

Tonepoet

@Mitch Anyway, if you want positive affirmation over twenty votes on meta say Joke explanations are on-topic.

terdon

@depperm in principle, such questions would be on topic here since a name is just another word and etymology is on topic. However, they are likely to be closed for lack of research unless you show that you've searched before asking. It should be trivial to find etymologies for the vast majority of names.

Arjun

1 minute

terdon

@Tonepoet But who ever said they weren't? As I said half an hour ago, if your question is about the English language as used in a joke's punchline, the fact that it's a joke is secondary anyway. It's a question about English.

Tonepoet

14:09

@terdon Mitch. @tchrist also implied it.

Arjun

When are we supposed to use "that" and not "which" or "who" and vice-versa?

Tonepoet

@terdon I have no objection to your statement. Naturally, if a question doesn't regard english it is off-topic.

terdon

@Arjun That's a very complex subject. You might want to post a question but not here, on English Language Learners.

Mitch

@Tonepoet Argh.

What @terdon is saying is what is right.

And what I thought I was saying.

Arjun

Besides, is there any "whose"-ish form of "which" - similar to "whose" -> "who".

Mitch

14:10

or rather, I was saying when a joke is bad

I'm not saying all questions that involve jokes are bad.

terdon

@Arjun Yes: which

Arjun

@terdon Yes, I was considering to join that community.

Mitch

Just like I don't say that all questions involving poetry or lyrics (which is poetry) are bad

terdon

Which is the whichish form of who, just like whose is its whoish form.

Mitch

@Arjun there are many questions on ELU that address the 'that' vs 'which' difference

Arjun

14:14

What should be the replacement of "whose" in "The book whose pages were torn" with an apt word? Certainly not "which", I guess.

And "whose" is for persons, if I am not mistaken.

Mitch

119

Q: When to use “that” and when to use “which”?

When is it appropriate to use that as opposed to which?

pronouns conjunctions relative-clause which-that relative-pronouns

Arjun

And of course I can rewrite this as "The book having torn pages" etc., but that's just an example.

Mitch

@Arjun I'm not sure what this means.

terdon

@Arjun No, it's for objects as well, if they can own something. "The house, whose key this is, is mine"

Mitch

'whose' replaces a possessive. 'Whose book?" "Paul's book"

Arjun

14:18

@terdon I didn't know about that. Thank you. You made my day.

@Mitch I am somewhat of a rookie with words, especially of a secondary language...

terdon

Well, that was easy. :)

Arjun

:)

Mitch

@Arjun Sure, I understand that. So maybe you want to reword that using more words so that it is more explicit, so that it attempts to be clearer rather than taking a lot of informal shortcuts.

Arjun

@Mitch Is there any similar counterpart of who's whose for which? Clearer, perhaps?

terdon

@Arjun Your question doesn't make sense.

Arjun

14:31

The words who and whose have a relationship. Whose is possessive form of who. What word is it that has similar relationship with the word which? In simpler words, what is the possessive form of which? Clear as pure water it is now, I believe. :P

terdon

@Arjun Which doesn't have a possessive form. Why would it? That's what whose is for.

When would you use this possessive form of which, if it existed?

Think of a sentence where you would want to use this form, and just use whose instead.

Arjun

@terdon Yeah, I just came to know that from this:

19 mins ago, by terdon

@Arjun No, it's for objects as well, if they can own something. "The house, whose key this is, is mine"

I'd always thought that whose is specific to be used as possessive form of who only.

Okay, GTG. Bye, folks.

depperm

14:51

I ask about name meaning, not about a particular word/name which I know I can google and probably find, but if I want to create a word/name with a certain meaning is there a book that has snippets that I can put together to create a name/word with a specific meaning?

terdon

@depperm no idea. Not if you mean for names, specifically. But I think you just want a good etymological dictionary.

Mitch

@depperm Why would there be a book on how to create names? I wouldn't be surprised if there were one (people create all sorts of things), but it would be entirely speculative. And anyway you can do it yourself just as well since if a name doesn't exist, you can create just as well as anybody else.

Did you want to create a new name out of existing Hebrew word pieces?

Suggestion 1: end with -el, they _all_ do that.
Suggestion 2: pick any two roots you've seen before

eg from 'rach-' meaning ewe, and 'dinah' meaning avenge, Create 'Rachdinel' meaning 'May God avenge the sheep'.

It's a lovely girl's name, poetic almost, and she will easily make friends.

M.A.R.

15:09

@Mitch Rachdinel is that girl in that Disney movie, no?

Mitch

@M.A.R. Are you thinking of .... Anna?

Anna Bananna?

M.A.R.

@Mitch the one with supernatural hair

And annoying niceness

Mitch

Oh. Rapunzel.

Nice is so annoying.

So grating

M.A.R.

Wait, all of them are annoyingly nice

And husband-deficient

Mitch

Anna is a little ... wait for it... cold.

M.A.R.

15:16

@Mitch which one is Anna?

Mitch

The cold one

Emily or Eliza or whatever is the younger sister who expects Anna to play with her, but Anna is agoraphobic and germophobic but nobody understands

M.A.R.

@Mitch the car with eyes?

Because that'd be cold

Mitch

By the third trimester, there will be hundreds of babies inside you.

@M.A.R. That's Herbie, the Love Bug.

Gigili

@Mitch Cold? I think you are mistaking Elsa for Anna.

Mitch

@Gigili Which is the blond haired ice queen?

Gigili

15:21

Elsa?

Tonepoet

@Mitch Google nGrams disproves that marriage is monogamous. =P

Mitch

@Gigili Oh. You're right.

Elsa (Disney)

Queen Elsa of Arendelle is a fictional character who appears in Walt Disney Animation Studios' 53rd animated film Frozen. She is voiced primarily by Broadway actress and singer Idina Menzel. At the beginning of the film, she is voiced by Eva Bella as a young child and by Spencer Lacey Ganus as a teenager. Created by directors Chris Buck and Jennifer Lee, Elsa is loosely based on the title character of "The Snow Queen", a Danish fairytale by Hans Christian Andersen. In the Disney film adaptation, she is introduced as the princess of the fictional Scandinavian kingdom of Arendelle, heiress to the...

Gigili

Or was it the one with braided hair?

Mitch

Gigili

@Mitch Not funny at all.

Mitch

15:24

@Gigili It's nerd funny

Gigili

:39086372 I saw what you did there.

M.A.R.

@Gigili that's xkcd

It's not always funny. It just makes a point

Or maybe just a NASA engineer feeling funny

Tonepoet

@Gigili And if you know what's good for you, you'll keep it a secret. ;-)

Gigili

@M.A.R. surprisingly enough, it even doesn't make a point.

M.A.R.

@Gigili Shrug

Mitch

15:26

@Gigili You should ask on ELU. Jokes are on topic

Gigili

Next you are going to tell me xkcd is about pointless jokes which are not funny

M.A.R.

@Tonepoet you'll bombard Gigilli with Webster's recommendations on how to extrapolate?

Mitch

@Gigili resists!

terdon

@M.A.R. Note that Rapunzel is a few centuries older than Disney.

M.A.R.

It's hard to be a menace when you write all of your abbreviations with dots

Mitch

15:29

@Gigili There's a site called explainxkcd.com, which, I will explain, explains xkcd cartoons, why they are supposed to be funny, and all the sciency stuff that makes it so funny

@terdon It's not like they're going out

M.A.R.

I think what-if.xkcd is brilliant

Tonepoet

@M.A.R. Nah, I know Webster's doesn't hold any weight with you blokes. I'll use just Oxford instead. Then he must take the advice! <_<

Mitch

There's also an explainexplainxkcd.com, in case you don't understand the explanation of xkcd, you can get a meta explanation of why the explanation of xkcd is an explanation.

M.A.R.

There's that quote from Einstein that the only real way of thinking is imaginative

@Mitch how deep does it go?

Mitch

@M.A.R. I can only imagine what that quote must be like.

Mostly because I've never seen it before.

Well, not mostly. That's all of it.

M.A.R.

15:31

@Mitch "God doesn't throw dice"

Wait, wrong quote

Gigili

@M.A.R. way way deeper

Mitch

@M.A.R. I vaguely remember an explainexplainexplainxkcd.com at one point, but that's quite a lot of work to go to. I don't think it exists anymore.

@M.A.R. But that was certainly imaginative.

Gigili

@Mitch They could just hire you instead of purchasing hundreds of new domains

Mitch

3 levels deep is about as far as is meaningful.

M.A.R.

@Mitch we'd need a very powerful sedative

Mitch

15:35

I have heard that there are some compilers for functional languages (of course written themselves in a functional language) that go to 6th order.

But that could be my imagination speaking

What's that?

Sorry, my imagination was not saying that at all. He says it is my episodic memory that was saying it.

M.A.R.

Has anyone watched Dunkirk yet?

Mitch

@M.A.R. Something like somnacin? As a practicing psychopharmacologist, I'd prescribe carfentanyl. A boatload of it.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychopharmacologist or know anything about anything, and carfentanyl is a very strong sedative that should not be used outside the presence of a very skilled anesthesiologist.

@M.A.R. No, but I've heard good things

Gigili

I've heard good things too, irrelevant to that movie

Tonepoet

15:54

@Mitch Hey mitch, are you trying to indicate that you are a psychologist who has the credentials to prescribe drugs, or a mad scientist with experimental drugs unfit for consumption by anything, let alone humans?

user288256

@Mitch Wow. Four dozen husbands means lots of alimony and benefits I'm guessing.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I somehow doubt you could convince four dozen people to marry you unless you were a real prize in some manner, so either a divorce won't happen because it's undesirable for the husbands, or it's the ex-wife that'll be paying 'cause she's probably the much richer spouse. XP

Mitch

@Gigili apropos of nothing,

Well, that's it

user288256

@Tonepoet Good point. But why would it be undesirable for the husbands?

Tonepoet

Maybe she's just that drop dead gorgeous to stick figure men?

user288256

16:09

Erm

user288256

Yeah. That's possible.

user288256

@Tonepoet But no matter how drop dead gorgeous, such a wife would be considered a 'slut' not a wife.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I didn't know chimney sweeps earned so much.

key_asdfg

16:25

Hi I have a question. Is owning a label printer at home common in your country? If so, can someone tell me which brand is popular? Also, let me know which country you live in. I'd like to know if it's common to own one in English speaking countries. By label printer, I mean something like this: mediaserver.goepson.com/ImConvServlet/imconv/…

user288256

@Tonepoet I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Who do you mean by "chimney sweeps"?

Tonepoet

@Ghalib 'tis a profession. It's what you call somebody who cleans the soot out of a chimeny.

user288256

@Tonepoet I know that term. I mean who is a chimney sweep in our joke or whatever?

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I'm relatively sure you know me well enough by now that you can do a small investigation to see. =P

Kit Z. Fox

Stick with a fuzzy end?

user288256

16:32

@Tonepoet Okay, cool, you got it. How do I do this investigation? =P

Tonepoet

@Ghalib That's for you to figure out. =)

user288256

@Tonepoet Oh come on professor, no need to be so vague.

user288256

But it is fine.

user288256

I understand I guess.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox No, I think I'll change to a pointy one

Kit Z. Fox

16:33

how to defend yourself from attackers with fresh fruit

user288256

Freeze the fruit and when it becomes hard enough use it like a stone?

user288256

I once left a apple in the freezer.

user288256

It became a stone.

Mitch

@Ghalib Fresh fruit not good enough for you?

user288256

It is good.

user288256

16:37

I meant to answer the "defend yourself from attackers" part.

Mitch

Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit

►

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch one of my boys' favorites. comes up anytime there's bananas or raspberries.

which they like to say very britishly. banaanaaas raaaspberries.

Mitch

What about passion fruit? Have you done passion fruit?

Kit Z. Fox

haha. I don't think so.

we tried dragonfruit and it was very disappointing.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I suppose you gave it up already? Well that's no fun...

Mitch

16:40

Those are weird lookin

Kit Z. Fox

my youngest asked what makes things bland and specifically mentioned the dragonfruit.

Mitch

I don't think I've tried them. are they boring tasting?

Kit Z. Fox

well, I imagine they have more flavor if they were fresh. They taste like nothing much. they kind of have kiwi fruit texture, but I can't describe how nothing they taste.

not unusual or gross even, just like saltines without the salt.

Mitch

hm.

boring

user288256

@Tonepoet No, I'm still thinking. Still can't figure out. Erm... was it a sexual joke? I mean give me a hint.

Kit Z. Fox

16:42

yeah. so disappointing.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib No, but what do you know of how I treat words?

Mitch

Lychee. Those are the opposite of disappointing

user288256

@Tonepoet You are right, I know you well enough I guess. You treat words like they belong in Websters? :P I'm just joking. You make "puns", right?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch I have never tried them.

Mitch

16:57

@KitZ.Fox They're in the fruit vegetable area next to the dragon fruit and rambutan

Kit Z. Fox

I have never heard of rambutan.

user288256

Do you get mangoes there in summers? In colder regions I mean.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox I might have made that up

Kit Z. Fox

you did not.

it looks like a fuzzy lychee

Mitch

oh

@Ghalib tropical fruits are becoming more common here. they've had mangoes in regular grocery stores for the past couple years (at least)

Tonepoet

17:01

@Ghalib You were closer the first time. XP

user288256

@Mitch I see, neat. So are mangoes present in stores there all year around?

Mitch

I'm pretty sure they're not grown in Florida or California, just imported from India or... maybe Central America?

@Ghalib hm... not sure about winter.

They seem to come out in summer

user288256

Yeah same here.

Mitch

which is different from the season for all the citrus fruits like grapefruit and oranges which is mainly winter. But of course with refrigeration most all fruits and vegetables are available year round.

Gigili

@Tonepoet You eat them raw?

Tonepoet

17:07

@Gigili How'd you know?

Gigili

What exactly does XP stand for? Xenia Plaque

Mitch

@Gigili You should see a dentist about that

user288256

eXtreme Programming I guess.

user288256

@Tonepoet You know what professor? I give up. :)

user288256

I mean you were successful in boring me to death. ;-)

Gigili

17:13

@Mitch I've seen many dentists.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib With a dental drill?

Mitch

@Gigili You eat them cooked?

user288256

@Tonepoet Hah. So you want to torture me now? I said you won.

Mitch

@Gigili I've seen many dentists too I'm sure. They walk down the street too like you or me.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib Yes:

Mitch

17:17

Some of them

Important pronunciation question:

How do you pronounce JSON?

Like the name 'Jason'?

Or like 'jay sawn' accent on both syllables?

or something else?

user288256

@Tonepoet Hah, you might have a hard time with that Tone, since I'm martial arts guy with a foundation in wrestling. :)

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I took a little judo myself, but it was forced upon me, and I never really got good at it.

user288256

I see. Cool.

Tonepoet

So yeah, I probably would have trouble with it. XP

M.A.R.

17:32

@Mitch yeah

Gigili

17:57

@Mitch Why bother?

Mitch

@Gigili Oh, like don't bother pronouncing it at all? Just read or write it?

or if you're forced to choose between XML and JSON verbally, say 'Aw hell no, not XML'?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch this one.

or javascript simple object notation, if I feel like being a prick.

hmm...simple? or not? I can't remember.

Mitch

haha

Kit Z. Fox

Google says no.

Mitch

not simple?

Kit Z. Fox

18:01

It's actually JavaScript Object Notation.

I'm probably confusing it with SOAP.

Mitch

Oh

Subjective Objective Assessment and Plan

Kit Z. Fox

Serial Offensive Action Permutation

Mitch

Those don't sound good

Kit Z. Fox

Studied Offal Announcement Perpetuation

Mitch

But if forced to pronounce it, I would feel like saying the name Jason.

M.A.R.

18:03

Sanctioned Oral Accessory Pineapples

Way better than normal pineapples

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch I hear it both ways. I say it J-Son. I understand what is referenced when others say Jason.

Mitch

It's sorta like saying 'sensor' as 'SIN SOAR', where I would prefer 'SIN sir'

know what I'm sayin?

@M.A.R. still a plumbers nightmare

Kit Z. Fox

Like the awful edict to pronounce realtor as REEL-TOR.

I'm making a break for home. Ciao!

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox MEN TOAR

@KitZ.Fox vale!

@KitZ.Fox Eww

M.A.R.

Hyperbowl

Mitch

18:06

Eh - pih - toam

Gigili

@Mitch Like being forced to choose between clean air and polluted air?

stares at the window in shock

Mitch

wait...which one is clean and which dirty? XML or JSON? or is it that bad there?

The way LA got rid of smog I think is better emissions control for car exhaust (I think they still have bad days sometimes though, but probably because of forest fires not cars?)

Gigili

@Mitch Aw hell no, not XML

C.

.

Robusto

19:43

@tchrist: While watching Spanish-language TV I notice that police vehicles have the name spelled sometimes as polícia and sometimes as policía. The latter is how I learned it. Is this just a variant or are there different meanings?

Or maybe one is just a misspelling? Which would be odd on an official vehicle.

Mazura

20:49

This SWR argument is getting pretty hard to follow. Can we start over or what. And can we start with, DO WE WANT TO HAVE SWRs? Or am I missing the point?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…