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05:00
have I told you I'm an admin there?
there?
I helped to design the templates for vulgar latin conjugation
and proto-italic
if you look up abreuver
you can see a paragraph in etymology
I wrote it only knowing the Latin form
feel free to correct my mistake there
I don't know the transitions for Old French. Like ββ there.
Why geminate?
05:04
good question
I can see b > β but don't get b > ββ
I need to fall over now.
Hurts to stay conscious any longer. Nice talking to you.
how else should the u arise?
Nice talking to you also
05:42
Which one is correct?
> I should send him poker face
> I should send poker face to him
is there a difference?
"to him" or "him" ?
both are ok, but I would use "a poker face" instead of "poker face"
send him XXX = send XXX to him
I see, thx
 
1 hour later…
07:03
@Tonepoet By the by, tonepoet, why do you write 'tis when you can subtract ' and put a space between 't and is and make it It is?
Totally your choice, just thought I'd ask. = )
 
1 hour later…
08:20
@Cerberus quora.com/…
Maybe it's the only kids' video among the top 10.
And there appears to be a hard-core fan club behind it.
And ... I don't know for sure.
08:52
@englishstudent Aside from saving me a keystroke, it represents a different spoken pronunciation. One that's more associated with Shakespearean English, and hence considered more of a prestige form than it's. Although it'd probably better to always write out it is, using 'tis helps me remember what it means when I encounter it.
09:03
Also, it's not just Shakespeare (I'd never endorse doing something on the sole basis that Shakespeare did it, because the language had many significant differences between then and now), but a few other influences as well, but I can't remember any of them as readily and would rather not say something that is patently untrue.
09:53
@Tonepoet Oxford Paravia Italian Dictionary
@JasonBourne Yes indeed. $35.
@Tonepoet Third edition? In good condition?
Third edition, like new.
OMG, I should have waited for you to send it to me, lol.
Well, too bad you don't do Italian, otherwise you can buy a copy. Well, if you still want to you can buy a copy and keep it as a treasure.
There are new copies selling for $1000.
I bought it. I figure I can resell it later for at least double what I paid for it.
09:58
Yes, provided OUP doesn't publish a fourth edition, and currently there are no plans to do so. In fact, maybe they will never publish it again.
@Tonepoet Maybe one day, you will find the 20 volume OED selling for 35 as well.
@JasonBourne I doubt that. My C.E.O.E.D. first ed. cost me $5 though, and the volume III supplement appears on eBay for between $14-$20 sometimes which brings you most of the way there.
@Tonepoet That's a cool response. You should probably start writing ope, o'er and gi' etc. as well then. :)
@englishstudent I don't think any of those are nearly as recognizable as 'tis, so I probably won't.
@Færd Ah!
It must be something about children, then.
Looping video's.
But, still: where is there no English children's video in the top ten?
10:14
@Cerberus Hi doggie. How are you today?
By the way Cerberus do you speak English in daily life? I mean in real life .
And you can tell me not to call you "doggie" if you don't like it.
I just think it is funny.
11:08
@Tonepoet By the way, I really hate poetry, lol. But I like tones.
 
2 hours later…
12:41
@JasonBourne I have no clue regarding how I should respond to that.
12:53
@JasonBourne try speaking a tonal language
@Tonepoet Is "you will being (something)" grammatically correct? For example "You will being paying interest on your purchases".
@englishstudent you will be paying interest
but your sentence wouldn't make sense even so
Why not?
well, normally you just say "pay interest on your purchases"
Another example, from Google books: "and you will being paying off the loan longer"
13:01
it's just a typo
Yeah, I was thinking "you will be paying" too. That's why I'm confused.
I don't think that's a typo.
why not?
I mean I read "you will being" in other places too. Try Googling "you will being (paying) or something else" and you will find many examples.
I have yet to check COCA.
But I kind of stay away from COCA. It is a hassle.
can you give me an example?
I already gave you two examples. Let me see if I can find more.
13:04
I couldn't find your first one online
I altered this sentence from Google for my first example "This means that you will being paying interest on all new purchases". Search that.
still no match
But I'm not sure if that's grammatically correct or not. I mean it is not from Google books.
would you give me the link instead?
I haven't opened that pdf though.
13:12
it's a typo
It was a random search.
Are you sure?
well, it seems to be a typo to me.
okay thanks.
14:01
@LeakyNun I speak Mandarin which is easier than Cantonese since it has only 4 tones instead of 9?
@JasonBourne Cantonese really only has 6 tones though
It is traditionally classified as 9 tones
what languages do you speak?
@LeakyNun I speak English and Mandarin Chinese. I am trying to learn German and French and Italian and Spanish, but currently I don't speak them. However, my Italian pronunciation is almost perfect because I have been singing Italian opera for a long time.
I see
so you have no difficulty pronouncing words like signore (-gn-, -r-) or voglio (-gli-)?
Nope. I pronounce them instantly when I see them.
I mean, not many anglophones can master the trill
14:05
The Italian R is way easier than the French R!
well, certain people cannot trill...
which French R are you referring to?
The guttural R, which is the voiced uvular fricative but sometimes it becomes the voiced uvular trill. Also called German R.
the uvular trill is no longer standard
I don't know if it ever was
now it's just the (easier) fricative
I have watched 9000 youtube videos on this R.
German has two R's though, both of which are standard.
14:07
I suspect most of them are not totally right, which is what got me confused. I am guessing I have gotten it right, but there is no way to verify unless I talk to a French phonology expert. I think even a French native speaker won't do.
what do you mean, getting right on the sound or the facts about the sound?
It's quite easy to verify the sound.
In the meantime, I think I have gotten my ich, buch, and bach in German right. The ch sound is also hard.
there are also two ch's.
@LeakyNun The problem with these sounds is that there are many different sounds that sound very similar.
the ch in ich is different from buch and bach
@JasonBourne well just send me an audio
14:10
I will just explore on my own a bit more first, but I will consider your offer. If you know of any good youtube channel on French and German pronunciation, let me know.
sure, or you can just ask me
1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
the ch in ich is different from buch and bach
@JasonBourne are you aware of this?
@LeakyNun Yes. Quite different.
alright.
@JasonBourne do you have problems distinguishing when to use which?
I got the Assimil course books to learn these languages. Very good, but quite expensive.
@LeakyNun Nope, not at the moment.
alright.
Why do you know Mandarin?
14:12
Assimil is very popular among polyglots.
I see.
I learnt Mandarin in school. I am from a place which teaches Mandarin and English in schools.
However, most of the Assimil courses are in French, but they do have about ten languages in English.
@JasonBourne where?
@LeakyNun I have to keep that a secret in this chat, for reasons that I have to keep secret.
alright.
14:14
They are always listening...
@JasonBourne Who? : )
@englishstudent They...
I don't want to go to prison...
Well, you seem quite pleasant to me, why would anyone put you in a prison?
14:19
If you are interested @LeakyNun this is the Assimil website: fr.assimil.com I think besides that site you can get their products most cheaply from amazon.fr. amazon.com hikes up the price a lot.
@englishstudent I don't think it is appropriate to ask someone information which they wish to hide.
@JasonBourne thanks
@LeakyNun He's just joking with me, relax.
Yes I was, Jason is right. = )
@Tonepoet I am curious. Does it come with the OUP blue dust jacket? When you remove it, is it a light green hardcover?
@JasonBourne well, it seems that you do know a lot about German and French
14:23
@JasonBourne It does and it is.
@LeakyNun Well, I don't know much about anything, even math, but I do a lot of comparison for books on topics I like, which includes languges, math, and Buddhism.
@Tonepoet Now I can be sure I got the correct edition as well. I am really surprised this one doesn't come with the usual Oxford black hardcover.
@LeakyNun What is your favourite topic in math?
@JasonBourne You mean blue, I suppose.
@JasonBourne algebra, I suppose. Both linear and abstract.
14:26
@Tonepoet Well, the dictionaries are in black or very dark blue, effectively black.
@JasonBourne I also like dealing with sets and infinities.
@JasonBourne Oxford blue is quite a dark blue, but I wouldn't call it effectively black.
@LeakyNun I like Jacobson's Basic Algebra 1 and 2. I like it because it contains things important that are not found elsewhere easily, like the transcendence of e and pi, the cubic and quartic formulas, and the cubic and quartic galois groups.
I see
@Tonepoet Well, who says the hardcovers are in 'Oxford blue'? It can be any colour!
14:28
Oxford Blue is the official colour of the University of Oxford. The official Oxford branding guidelines set the definition of Oxford Blue as Pantone 282, equivalent to the hex code #002147. With a hue code of 212, this colour is a very dark tone of azure. Azure colours are those colours with a hue code of between 195 and 225. == Usage == Oxford Blue is strongly associated with the University of Oxford, especially with the official sport teams, also called the Oxford Blue. It is also used by the Pennsylvania State University, Georgetown University, and the athletic teams of the University ...
@Tonepoet What I mean is, where did they state that their dictionaries must have covers printed in Oxford blue? It's not on that page.
@Tonepoet I am surprised though that the American universities use that colour.
I am watching the final Bond movie, the 26th one, finally...
Can I say "I like dark color pants"? Or should it only be "I like dark colored pants"?
Among all James Bonds I like Pierce Brosnan the most.
No homo.
@englishstudent Color is not an adjective, so you need to say colored, which is derived from the verb, to make it a participle.
ok thanks.
14:44
@englishstudent I would say instead "I like dark-colored pants", with the hyphen.
@Tonepoet I don't think it has anything to do with a verb. Consider "a long-haired girl".
@LeakyNun Some derivations don't have the corresponding root word, but it's relatively rare and in the case of hair, if it was used as a verb what else could it mean other than to provide or grow hair?
@Tonepoet hair isn't a verb.
"a long-haired girl" just means "a girl with long hair".
the -ed is appended directly at the noun "hair"
@LeakyNun If you read my statement more carefully, I didn't say it was.
9 mins ago, by Tonepoet
@englishstudent Color is not an adjective, so you need to say colored, which is derived from the verb, to make it a participle.
> colored, which is derived from the verb
@LeakyNun Yes, yes, but color and hair are two different things.
14:49
how so?
I think that the -ed is just appended to the noun color.
@LeakyNun That's being pedantic, but thanks.
@englishstudent you're in a forum about English language.
@LeakyNun Ok, first, it is not a forum it is a questions and answers site. And second I said "thanks" as well.
alright.
@englishstudent Q & A is that way ^. Right now we're in "chat". =P
14:53
@Tonepoet haha, you are messing with me tonepoet :P
I mean I like your humour.
@englishstudent I hadn't realized that there wasn't a link to the main website near the top of the chat page.
@Tonepoet Yeah there is one on the bottom right side.
@LeakyNun OK then I wonder why it isn't mentioned there.
@englishstudent Hi!
@Cerberus well, abdo is mentioned.
all they missed is one example
(credo is mentioned later also though)
But no Germanic cognate is mentioned.
15:04
@LeakyNun I don't think that makes nearly as much sense, especially in the context of a named clothing article, since coloring basically means to dye in that case.
@Cerberus oh.
@LeakyNun Do you never sleep?
I do sleep.
Not proven. :)
It looks like you MIGHT sleep once a week between Sunday and Monday GMT.
what is that graph?
15:11
Your public chat activity graph.
what.
(Not privileged information, I assure you.)
alright.
You can see why I asked about your sleeping. :)
I can.
15:15
Please, please be 100% certain that I was merely teasing you a little, not in any way suggesting anything untoward.
@LeakyNun Yes, certainly.
There are two kinds of -ed suffix, where this one as you suggest seems to be the one added to nouns to make adjectives, as in spectacled or snaggletoothed.
5
A: What is the tense used in a phrase such as "He is trapped"?

tchristThere is only one tensed verb in: He is trapped. Since is is the present tense third-person singular indicative of to be, this sentence is in the present tense. As for trapped, it is an adjective. You may call it a participial adjective if you’d like. But it is not a verb, and therefore ...

@tchrist I think you should say that to @Tonepoet instead.
To name it is to bring it into existence.
A process I refuse to call reïfication, because reïfy bugs me as a verb since this verb alone you cannot stem back to re + -ify and strip off the derivational suffix used to convert nouns into verbs and be left with an English noun.
If I must, I’ll thingify it. :)
Which is a monstrosity of its own; better to enthingen it.
@tchrist what amazes me, when studying the history of different languages, is to see the same sound change occurs in unrelated languages, or even twice in the same language (in different periods).
Context?
Random mostly.
Well, if you want an example, /w/ > /v/ occurred in Vulgar Latin as well as German.
15:26
Phonologic trends like various assimilatory processes, just to name one effect, are common across time and space.
They are based on human anatomy.
Which is not language-specific.
I agree.
@tchrist holy shit, GHOSTS!!!
@Mitch “At first, when they were highest, they seemed merely grey; but as we watched they dropped toward us, and I saw they were of a hue for which I can find no name but that stands to achroma as gold to yellow, or silver to white.”
15:30
That sounds like my aura
@Mitch I was thinking mummies and undeads.
Oh. Mummies are totally for real
Not ducks
Or duck color
@englishstudent As with the quick or the living or the dead, the undead are not generally held to be countable nouns since they came from a nominalization of an adjective. This is not always true, but often it is.
@tchrist how does lucem give rise to luz?
Despite their medical difficulties, they are individuals
15:32
Directly?
I would presume the z is /ts/
@tchrist I see, thanks.
@tchrist I mean, the sound changes
@Mitch That reminds me, mobile's autocorrect changes "ducks" to "dicks" sometimes.
lel
@LeakyNun You know about this, right?
El reajuste de las consonantes sibilantes fue un proceso de evolución fonética característica del castellano, que tuvo lugar durante los siglos XVI y XVII, dando el origen del sistema consonántico actual del idioma español. == Descripción fonética == Entre las consonantes del castellano antiguo hablado aproximadamente hasta entrado el siglo XIII, se hallaban los siguientes tres pares de sibilantes, sordas y sonoras con valor de distinción fonológica: Dos africadas predorsodentoalveolares sorda y sonora: /ʦ/ y /ʣ/ (como la z del italiano, o de la palabra pizza), representadas por las grafías ç ...
15:33
@englishstudent Phones are the worst
@tchrist I'm not so sure those examples are conclusive. Horns and berries have the action of growing associated with them, and naturally the beached whale was stranded on the beach. Can you name any examples which unambiguously lack an action associated with them?
@Mitch Which is why we prefer phonemes.
@englishstudent That means you're typing the latter word far more often than the former. Inquiring minds...
@tchrist sure
Haha linguistic nerd joke
I'll pie your piper!!!
15:35
@tchrist Not at all. But that's funny = )
How and why Latin /k/ stopped being that when followed by/e/ or /i/ but not by /a/, /o/, and /u/ in virtually all Romance (save Sardinian?) is pretty well studied.
@tchrist alright
in French, the /k/ palatalized before /a/
Tscha!
καθέδρα > chaise
Catheter
I'm sitting on my catheter
15:38
Do you work from home @Mitch?
@tchrist do you need to use a non-Latin example?
I mean like telecommuting and stuff.
@englishstudent I'm not working today
@LeakyNun Well, that one actually is a Latin example. :)
@tchrist and also a non-Latin example
15:39
@englishstudent sure sometimes
@Mitch I see, cool.
@LeakyNun cheese!
@englishstudent yourself?
@Mitch that's English.
cara mía, ma chère
Interestingly, French did not inherit the Latin word for cheese (caseus)
15:41
@LeakyNun I'm sure the Dutch do something like that. But anyway you were asking about non-romance
I hate that you can't spell French correctly by sounds alone, and that in fact it requires grammar like preceding direct objects triggering concord in past participles with avoir.
Concord which you can seldom hear.
@LeakyNun Did anyone? I guess cheese in English might have come from it, but it's queso in Spanish, fromage in French, formaggio (or something vaguely like that) in Italian.
IIRC that also happens with northerly Italian dialects but not with southerly ones.
I can't think of any Latin language with a c- word for cheese.
@terdon queso is from caseus
15:42
Ah
cheese did come from caseus
however its route is very interesting
That too.
Latin caseus > Proto-Germanic *kasijaz > English cheese
I see.
@Mitch I'm doing an internship at a company here. I work from Mon to Fri.
15:43
caseum > /kasjo/ > /kajso/ > /keso/ queso, I suppose. @tchrist can confirm.
@Mitch So I'm outside home for about 12 hours because I wake up at 7 am, do breakfast etc. leave home at 8-ish am, reach office at 9-ish and work till 5:30. I come back around 7 pm because traffic sucks also there is some distance.
@terdon Käse in German
@terdon it's one of the few words borrowed into Proto-Germanic from Latin.
The q -> c/c -> q stuff in Spanish is also odd. The only language I know of that changes Q->C for things like cuanto, cuando and yet change C -> Q for queso, apparently.
@terdon it's because ceso would be a palatalized c
/ka,ke,ki,ko,ku/ = ca, que, qui, co, cu
15:45
@englishstudent that sounds like work for everybody
ceso yes. But why the quanto -> cuanto change?
@terdon quanto was a labialized /k/
@Mitch Yeah : )
cuanto is /kw/
I mean, you have quand, quantum etc. What's up with Spanish?
15:45
@terdon What change?
@tchrist orthographical change
That's the same word.
Oh, pfft.
@tchrist Why are cuanto and cuando spelled with a C instead of a Q?
@englishstudent what area of work?
Because Spanish isn't dumb.
15:46
@terdon in Spanish, /kw/ is spelled "cu".
It always respells things to follow its phonological rules.
This is not French, you know.
in French, it should have been spelt "cand", and the "qu" is etymological.
@tchrist Menos mal!
jinx
@terdon no shit
@LeakyNun ikr! What is wrong with English?
15:47
@Mitch too etymological.
system instead of sistem
@Mitch A writing system encodes many things.
A slave to fashion
we keep using the pre-great vowel shift spelling for every long vowel
7
A: Latin words borrowed from Roman occupation?

ab2From The Families of Words, Mario Pei (Harper & Bros, 1962), page 11: Even Anglo-Saxon, however, borrowed from the Latin and Greek of the missionaries who came to Christianize the heathen Saxon, or of the earlier Roman merchants who traded with the Germanic tribes while they were still on the...

And silent letters
15:48
@Mitch English has nothing on French in that regard.
Yeah. Can't beat French for silent letters.
@terdon the road of "champion" is long
I mean, peaux? Seriously?
Latin campus > Proto-Germanic *kampijô > Latin campio > English champion
@LeakyNun Ah, which also explains why a filed is champ in French, presumably.
15:50
@terdon well, not too bad once you learn the rules
And also champignons, probably.
the rules are quite regular
@LeakyNun Bah. They're also moronic.
And yes, that's the taste of sour grapes you're detecting.
@terdon Irish kicks everyone's ass
@terdon +1
whines un bon vin blanc
15:52
@terdon champ < campus, champignon < *campaniolus < campaneus < campania < campus
Hein?
Lein?
Vein?
Que?
Manuel!
15:54
Aren't you glad the Spanish spell it champán not champagne ?
Long time no see!
why on earth does champagne also derives from campus?
@tchrist They spell it cava! :P
Well, yes.
@LeakyNun 'Cause that's what the place was called. Presumably, it had a lot of fields.
15:57
Have a good time going from papaver to pavot and an even better one getting to poppy.
Albeit not through pavot.
pavaver also gave us amapola after taking an Arabian holiday
alcázar is also from Latin via Arabic
fun fact: the Proto-Germanic word for "king" is *kuningaz
The Finnish word for "king" is kuningas
Is this a surprise?
Ah that.

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