English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Tonepoet

00:06

@Mitch Me and Lawrence were hoping that the question might not be considered P.O.B. on Writers S.E. because they cover poetry according to their help center, and hence might cover prosody. Edwin suggested that he would have answered the question if it was on writers, but went on to say that this is not writers.

However with that having been said, neither me nor Lawrence really visits writers to see what type of poetry questions they cover.

SmokeDetector

03:06

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Are there any words whose spelling was deliberately changed to make them non-offensive? by Xpndable on english.SE

Tonepoet

05:13

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 @terdon I do hate to be bothering you folk about this matter again, but I think I found out why Unicode didn't name the Emoji block Emoticons. The Unicode 6.0 standard introduced in 2010 has emoticons as a subset of emoji. So, emoji are the pictures and emoticons are the faces by their definitions.

That is to mean, their pictorial faces.

Or at least, that's what it is as far as I can tell at the moment. I'll need to reread this.

englishstudent

08:04

@Mitch 'Glut' is new for me, I knew the word but I usually hear the word 'abundance' when it comes to degrees. So linguistics is kind of easy I reckon. Depends on interest too, but yeah, every other person I talk to these days has some sort of interest in linguistics. Is it like a trend nowadays?

@Tonepoet I mix up emojis for emoticons all the time.

And vice versa.

skill patrol

That's understandable.

Both are displays of emotions.

emoticon

Noun: emoticon (plural emoticons)

A graphical representation, either in the form of an image or made up of text characters, of a particular emotion of the writer.
emoticon m (invariable)
emoticon
emoticon m (plural emoticons)
emoticon (simple drawing using text characters)...

emoji

Noun: emoji (plural emojis or emoji)

Any of the standardized ideogrammatic icons used in Japanese text messaging (which have since been adopted internationally).
emoji
emoji
emoji m (plural emojis)
emoji

(2 more not shown…)

RegDwigнt

09:17

@tchrist I, uh, what. I watched clair de lune and all I saw was the usual Synthesia stuff except that it scrolled left and not down. I don't get it. What cognitive processes is he illustrating where? For I ain't seeing none.

Maybe the colors mean something but if they do good luck figuring that out if you don't already know.

Tonepoet

09:43

@englishstudent Almost everybody does insofar as I'm concerned, but you can read more about that in the chat backlogs.

englishstudent

10:28

@Tonepoet Ok so I researched and now I'm convinced that I'm cool with emoticons but emojis can be annoying sometimes. Anything short of words can be annoying in places where people are typing.

By the way what would you call this thing "^_^"? An emoticon, or emoji? That looks like a smug face to me and that symbol irritates the shit out of me sometimes lel.

It is not like a full picture so not sure if that's an emoji. So a cross between emoji and emoticon?

> To complicate matters, some emoji are also emoticons.

I give up.

Tonepoet

I'll discuss this with you later.

englishstudent

Sure.

Tonepoet

12:42

@englishstudent I think its worth note that I have found a couple of other instances of "worth note that", like this and that, so it is hardly a habit which is original to me.

However aside from the probability that I picked it up from some odd television show, I'm still not quite sure why I use it, or how it works.

englishstudent

@Tonepoet Yeah it is not common, that's why I pointed it out. So you remember, kind of funny how you hang up on details. I'm like that too. =)

Btw "hang up on details" is correct phrasing right? @Tonepoet

Tonepoet

@englishstudent I would say "get hung up on the details" would be the more usual way to phrase it now that you ask, but that turn of phrase isn't anything that struck me as too odd.

englishstudent

@Tonepoet But when there is a better version, a more common version "worth noting that..." use that I guess.

@Tonepoet I see, thanks.

Tonepoet

@englishstudent I'm not convinced that it's better. XP

englishstudent

A-ha. I knew something was bothering you lel.

haha.

Well our conversation regarding that has come to an impasse then. XP

Tonepoet

12:58

@englishstudent Well, perhaps not quite. I have used worth noting in chat before, but I use worth note far more often.

englishstudent

Yep.

So you are a native speaker. When a non native speaker, an average one who is not very fluent points out a mistake in my sentence or tries to offer unwanted grammar advice my ego bruises sometimes. What about you?

Anyway I thought you were in the mood to discuss emojis and all that. From earlier I mean.

Tonepoet

@englishstudent I've argued the finer points of than and then in chatrooms before. People say I mean one when I say the other.

englishstudent

That's kind of funny. =)

Take a break from dictionaries and start hitting grammar books then. What do you say?

But it is not something you will find in grammar books I reckon. I dunno.

Tonepoet

@englishstudent I have been meaning to read An Improved Grammar of the English Language by Noah Webster more fully. However dictionaries are funner to read than grammars, because you can just read short passages at a time regarding the exact subject matter you want to learn.

And yes, Webster wrote more than just dictionaries.

englishstudent

@Tonepoet That reminds me, I used to obsess over dictionaries a few years ago. Um what? You read dictionaries? Oh right. I have done that too in the past. It was fun.

@Tonepoet Like I would always look for more dictionaries and compare them and everything, but at the end I came to the conclusion that reading different things and picking up new and cool words is much better and beneficial and worthy of your time.

So try that for a change maybe. ;-)

But do what you like.

M.A.R.

13:15

I never learn from dictionaries

Maybe I read too much at once

Tonepoet

You'll just get random personal opinions here (which some would be glad to offer). Both @Tonepoet and JasperLoy have done extensive comparison of dictionaries, and discussed such in chat. But they have very particular personal preferences whose justifications may not be so obvious eg Tonepoet prefers the first edition of Webster (from early 1800's) which by most modern standards has definitions that are misleading or not in use anymore (well written but out of date). But you might do better to look for 'official' reviews on-line. On the general web (New York Review of Books?) and on Amazon. — Mitch Mar 24 at 13:42

englishstudent

So have you read like Websters dictionary from cover to cover @Tonepoet? Just idle curiosity.

:36462066 Oh I saw that. :P You need cough drops now. ;)

Tonepoet

@englishstudent Not from cover to cover. I started the process and then stopped when I water damaged my hardcover fascimile. Turning the pages became difficult.

M.A.R.

What's with this migrating blatantly OT stuff to metas?

englishstudent

@Tonepoet I dub thee a dictionary nut tonepoet. =)

Tonepoet

13:19

@M.A.R. It was considered a resource request, and sometimes resource requests get migrated to meta so that they can be answered without affecting rep. Some similar topics aren't so blatantly off-topic because they can be used as an aid to policy, e.g. the research required close reason links to a great list of resources.

M.A.R.

@Tonepoet This is one of my biggest pet peeves about ELL and ELU. Stuff that's too bad for meta.ELL but even worse for the main site gets migrated so we talk a little bit in the comments before it's gone.

Tonepoet

13:35

@M.A.R. Hmm, I don't really think we should be discussing anything on meta that isn't really strictly policy. I mean, I know it's also meant to discuss the software, we can't even really do anything about that ourselves and Meta.se is probably a better place for it as such, especially since the software features are shared across all websites.

M.A.R.

@Tonepoet What? What is venting off for then?

I wanna rant, dammit

terdon

@Tonepoet Actually, the SE devs follow per-site child meta questions if they're tagged with bug and probably others.

Tonepoet

@terdon Well okay, I guess I can see if it's a site specific bug, like E.L.U's. acidic page yellowing. =P

@M.A.R. Chat's the vent; not meta. XP

M.A.R.

@terdon The fastest response is, as far as I've seen, design team checking [bug] [design] questions

Tonepoet

@englishstudent Anyway it's not so odd, and not even unprecedented with A.D.E.L. It was Emily Dickinson's dictionary of choice.Martha Dickinson Bianchi is on record as saying her aunt Emily read it as a priest his breviary and it makes a considerable amount of sense. Aside from being inarguably the best dictionary in 1844, the Armhest College was cofounded by Noah Webster and her grandfather Samuel Fowler Dickinson.

Although when I say inarguably, I'm holding Worcester's probable plagiarism against him.

Færd

14:38

A food line. Picture from VENEZUELA, A FAILING STATE.

Such a grim (and maybe occasionally exaggerated) report. My heart goes out to all the Venezuelan people who are adversely affected by the many-faceted injustice.

And yet last night on the nightly IRIB news there was a report of an Iranian food exhibition in Venezuela, where expensive-looking, mouth-watering dishes were presented and served to smiling, carefree Venezuelans, depicting a rosy picture of their situation and making no mention of any of the nations's trouble.

I suspect that's because Venezuela has been an important ally of Iran, especially under their previous administrations (headed by Chávez and Ahmadinejad), and they prefer that people think of Iran's allies as upbeat nations.

We are more likely to hear about how awful it is to live in the US or Europe than to hear criticisms of Venezuela or Russia.

But at what expense? Well, among others, promoting global ignorance of people who need attention most.

Although I'm not sure what good it is for Iran to maintain ties with present Venezuela. The bond has, no doubt, slackened after Chávez's death and Iran's turn of government.

M.A.R.

15:43

@Færd Everyone thinks everyone else is in deep trouble

Færd

17:35

@M.A.R. That ain't true. The powers that be convince some people through corporate/state media that some other people are in deep trouble and some others aren't.

Also your comment sounds vaguely like a dismissal of the fact that there are people who are attestaby in deeper shit than others and may therefore deserve to be paid more attention to.

On a different note, I realize that I sometimes use SE chat as my non-existent FB or Tweeter account.

Posting this and that, blowing off some steam, etc, only short of posting selfies.

M.A.R.

17:54

@Færd No, I was actually thinking about all media, generally

sumelic

21:57

Anyone else want to vote to reopen or delete “I am finished my sandwich” sounds correct but “I am started my sandwich” does not? It only takes one more vote to reopen. One more person has voted to reopen since I last saw it (and there was also a drive-by downvote on my answer, lol).

tchrist

22:08

@sumelic Done. I hope I picked the right one. :)

Holy crap there were like 20 reopen votes on that puppy.

sumelic

@tchrist Thanks. It seemed it got a few votes each time I tried to reopen it, but they all timed out before getting up to 5.

tchrist

Yes, that's what happened.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…