English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Færd

04:30

What is the function of the adjectives stiff and soft in these sentences?

> the rope they tied it with was frayed soft by weather

> The crib's iron strap hinges were rusted stiff

I was under the impression that they are called subject complements (analogous to object complements like new in I bought this new), but that term is apparently reserved for linking verbs.

Cerberus

I would be fine with calling those subject complements.

The verbs fray and rust might be said to function like copulae in those sentences.

Although the first term that comes to mind is praedicative adjectives.

Adjectives that are connected both to the verb and to the subject (or other complement).

Cf. she came first, he arrived late, the house was painted white.

Færd

Would you say that came and arrived function like copulae there?

I guess white is an object complement in painted white.

Cerberus

@Færd Yes.

Although they're not usually called that.

Færd

I like that analysis.

What about free and wild in run wild and do something free (of cost)?

Cerberus

But subject complements in copular sentences are, I believe, generally considered a kind of praedicative adjunct/modifier.

@Færd You could analyse those in a similar way.

Færd

04:43

Some dictionaries consider them adverbs.

Cerberus

Although the do something free one is a bit iffy.

Well, praedicative adjuncts have something in common with adverbs.

They modify the verb semantically.

Færd

Not always. Shut in rusted shut doesn't explain the rusting process at all.

Cerberus

Why not?

Færd

I mean not directly.

It describes what it results in.

Cerberus

A result can tell you something about the process.

Færd

04:45

So not directly.

Cerberus

I kind of understand why you say that, but I think it's semantically good enough.

I painted the house white.

It doesn't "directly" tell you something about the manner of painting, but mainly about the result, it could be argued.

Færd

Yeah, it's absurd to call that one an adverb.

Cerberus

Why?

It semantically resembles the function of many adverbs to some degree.

Færd

I don't know. Feels absurd.

> - How did you paint it?
> - White.

Cerberus

But you can also connect it to a complement of the verb (subject or object, usually), and its form doesn't look like an adverb, which makes it praedicative.

@Færd How did you come? On Monday.

And yet on Monday is as adverbial as it gets.

Færd

04:51

That's not a how. That's a when.

Cerberus

So the "how" question proves little.

Færd

I'm most comfortable with predicative adjective.

Cerberus

Good.

Færd

without the a. ;)

Cerberus

In Dutch we have an alternative name, doubly connected.

@Færd But that's not traditional!

Færd

04:53

I don't know why I should care about tradition per se.

@Cerberus Why doubly?

Cerberus

Connected to both verb and noun phrase (subject/object).

Færd

Huh.

In some other languages too consider lots of stuff connected to the verb, even if they directly describe the subject/object/etc.

Maybe not accurate semantically, but no strong objection.

Thanks @Cerberus.

Also found this answer, with some useful links within:

23

A: "waterway ... flowed sombre" - Should Joseph Conrad have used an adverb, not an adjective?

I've just been reading on "depictive constructions" and it seems to be the term used by some lingusts to describe such constructions. The waterway flowed sombre. The construction depicts the state of the waterway, not the manner of its flowing. Compare: John shouted at them angrily....

Resultative

In linguistics, a resultative (abbreviated RES) is a form that expresses that something or someone has undergone a change in state as the result of the completion of an event. Resultatives appear as predicates of sentences, and are generally composed of a verb (denoting the event) a postverbal noun phrase (denoting the entity that has undergone a change) and a so-called resultative phrase (denoting the state achieved as the result of the action named by the verb) which may be represented by an adjective, a prepositional phrase, or a particle, among others. For example, in the English sentence The...

Secondary predicate

A secondary predicate is a (mostly adjectival) predicative expression that conveys information about the subject or the object but is not the main predicate of the clause. This structure may be analysed in many different ways. These may be resultative, as in (1) and (2) or descriptive (also called "depictive") as in (3). (1) She painted the town red (2) The film left me cold (3) Susan walked around naked. (Depictive over the subject, or "subject-oriented depictive") (4) John ate the meat raw. (Depictive over the object, or "object-oriented depictive") (5) All men are created equal. == Alt...

Cerberus

06:08

@Færd Good finds.

Linguistics abounds in terminology!

skill patrol

It's sort of a social science, no? @Cerberus

Cerberus

@skillpatrol Yes, sort of, but also humanities.

And hello.

And goodbye, for it is bedtime.

skill patrol

Cya pal.

Cerberus

Ciao!

englishstudent

14:32

@Tonepoet I came across this picture and I thought of you:

Russian version of Alice in Wonderland.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus What time zone are you pretending to live in these days? yeesh

englishstudent

Can I use the word anxiety here twice? And is is correct here? "Speaking of anxiety tea and coffee is bad for anxiety".

Or maybe "Speaking of anxiety tea and coffee are bad for anxiety". but still I'm using the word "anxiety" twice here.

Matt E. Эллен

it should be are

using anxiety twice is fine

englishstudent

okay, thanks a lot.

Matt E. Эллен

also, I'd put a comma after the first anxiety for clarification of the reader. i.e. you're not speaking about "anxiety tea and coffee"

englishstudent

14:43

Ah yes, that makes sense.

Mitch

16:03

@MattE.Эллен but increases the level of pleonastic anxiety considerably.

Matt E. Эллен

all anxiety is pleonastic. I don't need it at all

Mitch

You _can_ but stylistically it sounds repetitive. Preferred wording:
"Speaking of anxiety, tea and coffee are bad for it."

@MattE.Эллен You don't want to get any in your tea is all. It be OK in coffee.

Peeve of the day:

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=120

it should be "another thing coming".

What kind of weirdo uses 'think' as a noun'?

Wait...don't answer that.

Matt E. Эллен

it should be thing. it has always been thing. it will always be thing

I'll delete anyone who says different

englishstudent

@Mitch That one is good too. Thanks.

@Mitch I thought about it but it was coming across as stilted and puffy to me, I don't know why. But now I can use that phrasing too because you said so.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Thang you.

@englishstudent repeating 'anxiety' sounds weird, like you what is this new anxiety? It's making me anxious!

about anxiety.

@englishstudent considers making up stuff to troll you

englishstudent

16:12

@Mitch haha exactly, that's why I asked.

Mitch

remembers that that's all I ever do

englishstudent

@Mitch Please do. :)

Mitch

attempts reverse puh sychology

englishstudent

You are a well reputed troll.

;)

M.A.R.

@Mitch That's all linguists usually do. O.O

Mitch

16:14

@M.A.R. I tend to agree with them when they give examples that are comparing gramatical, nongrammatical (or ungrammatical if you will), and various degrees of questionably grammatical.

Except when I don't.

OK...what's the temp where you are right now?

I want to feel good about not feeling so good.

M.A.R.

@Mitch Linguistics are also all idiots. Except the ones that aren't.

@Mitch 20-something degrees

Mitch

sort of the contra-inverse of schadenfreude, the feeling you get when you're worse off than others because that means they have to feel sorry for you.

M.A.R.

Room is cozy and warm.

@Mitch I feel sorry for you 10-something degree peasants :P

Mitch

@M.A.R. that's way too pleasant to be bearable.

M.A.R.

How cold is where you're sitting on right now?

englishstudent

16:17

@Mitch Why "contra-inverse"? Why not just "contra" or "inverse"?

Mitch

outside it's 0

inside it's as comfortable as a cat's tummy

englishstudent

Eww.

M.A.R.

@Mitch IKR, I'm looking for some modifications to make this armchair less comfy

Mitch

I have a podcast going that's just purring noises.

M.A.R.

@Mitch How large is the cat that ate you?

Mitch

16:18

@M.A.R. Oh that's easy. tennis balls

M.A.R.

@Mitch Hard to find where my hand can reach

Mitch

@M.A.R. Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside it's too dark to read

What do I care about the purring of one who cannot love, like the cat? #Nietzsche

Tweeted by NietzscheQuotes on March 19, 2017 at 6:10 PM

englishstudent

@Mitch Are you on twitter? I never find that site appealing. Good for news and gossip I guess.

Also there is a limit to how much you can put in a comment there, which sucks.

M.A.R.

16:40

@englishstudent News and gossip is why our brain functions properly

Mitch

17:13

OK, back to 'you have another think coming'.

It sounds ridiculous. It sounds like Dr. Seuss made it up. He can do that. But the rest of the world... pfft.

"How many thinks can you think?" That's what Dr Seuss does

Which makes it not an actual think

Thang kyou.

Matt E. Эллен

maybe dr. suess went back in time and invented it

Mitch

@englishstudent I look at it but I don't 'do' it.

I never understood what the point was.

Matt E. Эллен

there was a Genie near by and he heard him wish "I wish I'd made up 'there's another think coming'"

Mitch

But then other people mentioned they go on twitter (without explanation) so I thought I'd give it a try, and...

and you can think of it as another news source. 'follow' things you like, llike actual news outlets or people in your field who give news local to that field.

@MattE.Эллен He is timeless like those aliens in ... that movie... the one that starts with 'A'.

but is not 'Alien'

or 'Aliens'

or that other one.

Amy Adams is the main character, a linguist.

M.A.R.

Alienz

Mitch

17:19

@MattE.Эллен and changed all instances for all time so that we don't know if we're in this universe or that universe.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch contact

M.A.R.

Big green aliens

Mitch

(hint: it's always 'this' one)

@MattE.Эллен did your plane start OK?

@M.A.R. Nope. 'Addiction'?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch Independence Day

Mitch

'Alliance'?

@MattE.Эллен which one? the old one or the remake?

'Allianz'?

Matt E. Эллен

17:21

The one with Amy Addamms?

Mitch

Yes! That one!

'Arriance'?

'A Levels'?

'O Levels'?

'Oleomargarine?'

'Ovaltine'?

'Departures'? She gets on the alien spaceship and they're about to take off.

writes notes for sequel

Matt E. Эллен

Arrival

englishstudent

@Mitch There are Youtube videos where cats are meowing for 10 hours. I always wondered who watched that shit. Apparently people are into it.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен What flight number, time and gate?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch HR1234, gate 42, 25am

Mitch

17:26

@englishstudent Huh. That's weird. And presumably it's pretty common to think that's weird. Or am I weird to think it's weird.

not totally unexpected.

I have tagged a clip of 'the song that never ends' that repeats for 10 hrs.

I'm not totally crazy, I don't listen too it.

I'm just impressed that someone went to the trouble to make it.

And I think about the process.

englishstudent

Amy Adams is pretty. I will marry a woman just like her. :)

Mitch

Like, why did they decide to stop at 10 hrs?

@englishstudent Maybe but she can't go out in the sun for very long

englishstudent

No, it is in loop. So unlimited. Just replay the whole thing.

Mitch

Just sayin

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch there is a thing with Bee Movie where people edit it to do something everytime they say the word "bee"

Mitch

17:28

@englishstudent Oh

@MattE.Эллен An Alexa task?

Matt E. Эллен

for example:

The Bee Movie But Every Time They Say Bee We Explain The Deal With Bee Movie

►

Mitch

or whateer weird thing they lke to call that

englishstudent

@Mitch Oh, I didn't know that. You are talking like her stalker. :P

Færd

Is it a me'morial ˌservice or a meˌmorial 'service?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен They should have called that 'How to make a 'Bee Movie' movie'

so that I could then wonder how they made the ' 'Bee Movie' movie' movie.

englishstudent

17:32

@Mitch Do you ever listen to a song in loops?

Matt E. Эллен

the only time I watch all of the Bee Movie, I watch "The Bee Movies but every time they say 'bee' the speed doubles"

Mitch

@englishstudent I think all you need to do is look. red hair, light skin. needs to live entire life in a cloudy place

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch maybe they'll rename it, just for you

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен that should end quickly

Matt E. Эллен

yes

englishstudent

17:33

@Mitch Hah, I see.

Nice observation.

Matt E. Эллен

Red skin, light hair: they must be from Mars

Mitch

Her and Emma Stone.

@MattE.Эллен Maybe. Doubtful. There's probably a form for it, but Im just not in the mood.

Also, the 'Bee movie' isn't exactly the best movie.

Matt E. Эллен

you should write a script to fill out the form for you

Mitch

and not particularly remarkable.

Matt E. Эллен

is it the beest?

Mitch

17:37

@MattE.Эллен get's on it

@MattE.Эллен ha. no.

Matt E. Эллен

there's a movie that's beer?

Mitch

'Hit export and ... wait.'

'hypersignify'

hm

Matt E. Эллен

:wink:

Mitch

wait... that's eleven hours long.

hm

englishstudent

Is the necessary here: "We are just shooting (the) shit here." I mean to talk casually. I know the original phrase has "the" in it but can I erase it in that sentence?

Mitch

17:40

cheese and rice

@englishstudent yes. necessary.

englishstudent

Ah okay.

@Mitch Do you ever use that phrase in real life? Or is it not sophisticated for you? Just curious you know.

I mean I thought I'd ask since you are a native speaker and all.

Mitch

1) it's an idiom and so unchangeable 2) meaningwise .. hm there's no #2, could be 'shooting shit' other one, you just don't say it that way

englishstudent

Because kids often use the idiom on the forums. Sometimes I see "the" there, sometimes don't.

But people don't care about grammar in casual speech I know.

Mitch

@englishstudent It's very familiar to me, but I've had rare need to use it. But I don't think I would avoid it totally. I don't speak normally in a sophisticated (I'm guess you mean formal?) manner, unless talking to doctors or trying to relay information.

@englishstudent Kids, being people, are idiots.

englishstudent

haha

@Mitch Ah yes "formal".

@Mitch Why are you "formal" with doctors? The more casual and open we are with them the better I reckon. Because that way they know what's wrong. Also we are paying them lel.

You are talking about medical doctors right? I hope I didn't misread.

If it's the PhD doctors like in a workplace, then yeah, sure, I understand completely.

terdon

17:51

@englishstudent What? WHAT!? You should treat people with PhDs with the utmost respect. Anyone with a PhD is by definition a genius, a good person and better than non-PhD holders in bed.

That's what my PhD adviser told me anyway and I believe him.

englishstudent

@terdon Haha. OK. Fair enough. =)

Matt E. Эллен

Sure, sure. A doctor of philosophy is great. But a Master of Science is clearly better.

englishstudent

@terdon I didn't know PhDs were great in bed though. I have yet to experiment that. Where do I find a nice girl who has a PhD degree and who likes me?

terdon

If I could answer that, I'd be rich from my dating site.

englishstudent

:)

Matt E. Эллен

17:56

New Scientist has a dating site

terdon

@MattE.Эллен There's a scary thought.

Kit Z. Fox

oh sweet.

englishstudent

Anyway, I never considered having a PhD a sex symbol. I could be wrong I know. Time will tell.

terdon

It really, really isn't.

englishstudent

Maybe I will get one degree myself in the future. Just to hit on girls. ;)

Kit Z. Fox

18:01

In my experience, there is no correlation.

englishstudent

It is not an easy task I know.

terdon

@KitZ.Fox If there is, it's an inverse one.

Kit Z. Fox

I hope by the time you get a PhD, you will be hitting on women instead.

englishstudent

*task

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon Eh. Maybe. I know some cool PhDs, some total jackasses.

englishstudent

18:02

@KitZ.Fox lel.

terdon

@KitZ.Fox True. I was just thinking of the relatively high representation of obsessive loners in high academia.

Kit Z. Fox

A lot of PhDs seem to think that because they are one, that makes them an authority at everything.

I don't think that's their fault though. Probably the by-product of a society that treats them that way.

I was thinking of Ben Carson, but he's actually an MD.

Same sort of thing though.

terdon

I've never understood that. Having gotten one myself I well know that all it really takes is effort. I've seen too many idiots get one to put any weight on the title.

Kit Z. Fox

I knew a woman who literally had sex with her whole committee. Even if her dissertation was meritorious, no one is ever going to believe that she earned it because she put the work in. Of course, no one outside that small group will probably ever know.

so. shrugs

skull petrol

So you have both a PhD and an MD @terdon?

terdon

18:09

Wow. That's several kinds of academic misconduct there.

@skullpetrol Eeek! No! No MD, I'm an actual scientist, not a bloody mechanic :P

Kit Z. Fox

It's funny in particular because you spend years focused on one very narrow small thing that you become an expert at, so it's the opposite of being an expert at everything and yet...

@terdon omg med students were the worst.

When I was in a doctoral program, I had to teach med students. I also lived in a basement apartment with med students in the house upstairs. I almost got pissed on or vomited on almost every weekend.

They were barely above poo-flinging in class too. Actually, if we'd had poo in class, they probably would have flung it.

terdon

Yeah. In their defense, they are put under tremendous pressure, so I can see why they'd need to let off steam. Not much fun for the rest of us though.

Kit Z. Fox

So many of them were so dumb too. Or just in it for "the prestige". ick.

englishstudent

@KitZ.Fox Oh. So she slept around to get her degree basically? If I'm understanding it correctly. (Btw is this sentence of mine punctuated correctly? I wrote "If I am understanding..." after a question mark.)

Kit Z. Fox

@englishstudent Yes.

englishstudent

18:13

Ok. Thanks.

Kit Z. Fox

Your punctuation is casual. Sounds like speaking. Intelligible.

terdon

I remember chatting with a med student a few years ago and I asked her what she was thinking of specializing in. She said "Either plastic surgery or Oncology" (or two other equally unrelated but lucrative fields). When I asked her why those two, she just said "because I want to be loaded".

Mitch

@englishstudent you want to be precise and accurate with docs so they respond properly. It's easier to do that in formal language. If the only words I have a colloquial ones, I have to say a lot more to remove vagueness.

terdon

hell of a reason to become a healer that.

Kit Z. Fox

ugh

Mitch

18:16

Also, since I think you are leaning towards understanding the social aspects, even though it is the 21st century, docs are still people and will show more respect and then treat you better if you talk like them, which is usually more formal

@KitZ.Fox docs usually ain't that .... bright. They have to know a lot and pattern recognize quick, but not necessarily ... thinkers.

But on the whole smarter than average

englishstudent

@Mitch Yeah, okay, I don't know how things work there, but if I was sick I would use the normal terminology like "Doctor, I came down with a fever, I was sweating all the time, I couldn't walk, felt pain in joints. I felt like dying. I'm dying doc!" something like that. But I see your point, well, you must know a lot of technical words then.

It is good to know the technical lingo so yeah I agree with you.

Mitch

I wouldn't want to use "I'm dying" because that might be hyperbolic (or it might not) so is vague.

englishstudent

Oh I threw that as a joke. I know.

But I never use technical words when I visit them.

Mitch

Docs will tend towards asking something like "on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is nothing and 10 is the worst pain you've ever felt"

englishstudent

I have a million dollar vocabulary though. No doubt about it.

=)

Mitch

18:21

@englishstudent that is not a bad thing to do because we might use their technical word wrongly if we're not very familiar with their technical language

englishstudent

Yeah that's a possibility too. Very wise.

Mitch

By formal I mean clear, not mumbling articulate with as little slang as possible. I don't know all their technical terms but I can still be formal

Don't want no malapropisms to get prescribed a head transplant instead of a blackhead removal

englishstudent

haha

Mitch

Take the lead from the doc how formal they want to be

englishstudent

Also there are so many medical shows around these days that you can play a doc very easily. But in a funny way.

Færd

18:27

> I beat him up right nice.

Can you use the adverb right freely?

I guess with other adverbials, yes: right past it, right on, etc.

But with adjectives and verbs, I don't know.

Matt E. Эллен

@KitZ.Fox yet, she had to focus on several narrow small things. har har har

@Færd it seems to be part of some dialects. "Right quick" is something I've heard in some American things

Færd

Right.

Mitch

Haha

Færd

Maybe with a humorous effect?

Matt E. Эллен

for example

although I realise those are song lyrics, so might not be representative

Mitch

18:37

It's ok (grammatical and natural) but it feels ... too informal/dialectal? No particular dialect just...

Matt E. Эллен

I think in British it would be a class marker

Mitch

It doesn't say 'I am from Philadelphia' or 'I am a garbage man'...

Færd

> I'll be total nice with you; I promise.

Like this, perhaps?

Mitch

I repeat myself

No that one didn't work

You totally need to use totally there

Færd

What a total ignorant I am.

Mitch

18:39

There is a tendency to drop -ly.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Huh. I would have thought that was BrE actually.

Mitch

But not there

Færd

What a total genius I am.

Mitch

@Færd ignoramus

@Færd yes

Færd

@Mitch I thought you were going to say but not there.

Mitch

18:41

Total is correct as an adjective modifying the noun genius

Færd

It was irrelevant. It doesn't modify adjectives.

Back to right.

Mitch

Total totally modified genius there, there's no other interpretation

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon I can imagine a west country farmer saying it, but not in general

Mitch

right back atcha

Yeah. West Country. Whatever country it's west of.

How do the lyrics go?

Færd

> he got a right good kicking from the Edinburgh Review.

> The cooks did a right good job, Colonel!

> Well, you did a right smart job on the stalls.

Mitch

18:45

> On we sweep with threshing oar
Our only goal will be the western shore

@Færd yep those all sound informal/local

Færd

Alright. Thanks.

@Mitch Said Columbus on his way to 'India'.

Mitch

Haha

Columbus was dumb

He had good staff though

Kit Z. Fox

19:06

@MattE.Эллен har har har

Matt E. Эллен

19:21

> And act like ya tryin' to get this money right quick

is the specific line I was thinking of

Mitch

21:15

@MattE.Эллен that's not ... unamerican even if from West Country (but I've heard the the American R derives from the WC R. But it's not as simple as that)

englishstudent

21:45

@Mitch I just remembered I was talking to some medical doctor in the past and she told me that doctors sometimes get intimated when their patients talk in a technical language, the reason being that a doctor then knows the patient knows shit (diagnosis etc. even from the internet) and so they have to be careful with the diagnosis etc. and not make mistakes.

The same person also told me that these days due to internet most patients are like that i.e. they talk in a technical language or like to talk in a technical language. Well everyone has access to medical websites etc.

Aditya Vikas Devarapalli

Is this a correct sentence ? "I'm always fascinated by how software is a part of our everyday life"

englishstudent

Sounds good to me.

Mitch

@englishstudent good point

@englishstudent and they use the fancy terms, but don't necessarily know how to use them correctly.

Cerberus

23:26

@Færd To return to this old message, indeed, you don't need to learn every idiomatic expression that anyone has ever used. It's just people who use words, not magical essence you need to ascend to a higher form of being.

In fact, it's probably better to remain ignorant about ugly things in order to reduce the chance that it might subconsciously influence your style.

tchrist

So you just need words to ascend to a higher form of being?

Cerberus

And you don't need to learn everything in order to avoid it: if you base your style on sound principles, you'll avoid them of your own accord. A desire for some consistency and a distaste for vulgarities will get you far.

@tchrist "The secret letter is not B." "So it must be Q?"

tchrist

A

Cerberus

Odd.

I was watching a short film in Portuguese.

I was rather proud of myself when, after thinking it sounded like Brazilian all the time, I saw a Brazilian flag in the ending scene.

tchrist

It's pretty obvious which is which, no?

Cerberus

23:33

And one guy even seemed to have a rather nasty vulgar accent.

Perhaps.

tchrist

The one you can't ever seem to figure out which words are which in is from Portugal. :)

French should be worse, but for me it's easier, perhaps because I had it in my brain for longer, younger.

Cerberus

I also noticed that Brazilians seems to ask "sabe?", while the Portuguese ask what sounds like "sabs?" /sabʃ/ or /sapʃ/.

tchrist

Well, right.

Brazilians don't usually use tu forms.

Cerberus

@tchrist I'm not sure the difference is that huge.

@tchrist Ah, that explains it.

tchrist

"sabes (tu)?" has a silent "e" in /sapʃ/

Cerberus

23:35

They use você, something like that?

tchrist

Yes.

Most of them.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, I figures it must.

tchrist

And some of them randomly mix in the tu clitics with você forms. It's confusing.

Cerberus

I remember there was something odd about you in Brazil.

tchrist

They are always sounding formal. :)

Cerberus

23:36

Like the English?

tchrist

But we've forgotten, as have they.

tens fogu?

When I just hear it without the "-s" I always wonder if they're really talking to me. :)

Also, the Brazilians will pronounce sabe as /sabi/.

Cerberus

Mm it did sound more like -e in the film.

tchrist

Lucky you!

The Portuguese reduce it differently.

Nearly silent, usually.

They have this vowel that only Romanians also have for the Romance tongues.

Cerberus

Oh?

I know the Portuguese like to swallow letters like the French.

tchrist

> European Portuguese has taken this process one step further, raising /a, ɐ/, /e, ɛ/, /o, ɔ/ to /ɐ/, /ɨ/, /u/ in all unstressed syllables. The vowels /ɐ/ and /ɨ/ are also more centralized than their Brazilian counterparts. The three unstressed vowels /ɐ, ɨ, u/ are reduced and often voiceless or elided in fast speech.
If /ɨ/ is elided, which mostly it is in the beginning of a word and word finally, the previous consonant becomes aspirated like in 'ponte' (bridge) [ˈpõtʰ], or if it is /u/ is labializes the previous consonant like in 'grosso' (thick) [ˈgɾosʷ].

Might be [ɯ].

The /ɨ/ is like in English roses (versus in Rosa’s).

Yeah, that one.

It moves more towards /u/ compared with a normal schwa.

Cerberus

23:49

OK.

tchrist

> The three unstressed vowels /ɐ, ɨ, u/ are reduced and often voiceless or elided in fast speech.

They all become that [ɯ] thing, or are just completely gone.

Cerberus

That sounds very Portuguese.

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