@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, yes. It isn't burned in either case. In both situations it's suspended in the gas. Had it been burned, you wouldn't be getting any nicotine.

@terdon safer, I'll grant you. safe, I'm reserving judgement.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 As you wish. But seeing as everything involved (again, bar random unkown liquids) has been in use and has been inhaled by humans for decades, it's about as certain as we can be of anything.

When I was in my twenties, I used to go to steep shops all the time in the grungier parts of town. The 'steepers' as they were called, sleeping in large shawls, or for the lucky ones a shortbread box, would lay out their doilies for passers-by to place a crumb or two.

@RegDwigнt Hit and run image poster! =P

a drive-by imguring.

they'd have their apparatus, a small spoon, a strainer, a lighter to heat up the little water.

But even if we only accept safer. Even if it were to simply result in a tiny 0.5% decrease in cancer or general mortality rates, isn't that already a wonderful thing? Isn't that reason enough to promote it in an effort to get our fellow humans to stop harming themselves?

@terdon well... yes. But there are even safer choices, like just not smoking, and preventing non-smokers from becoming smokers.

@terdon Maybe. It depends upon how much harder it is to promote quitting altogether.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 All of which are absolutely great and better solutions, sure. But that's no reason to discard a lesser, yet still better approach.

and then in horrific scenes, a chipped teacup with lukewarm swill, they'd tilt their heads back, take a loving swig.

@terdon oh, I'm not discarding it.... I just don't like it. and especially its name.

in a show of decrepit continentalism, pinkies ... out.

@Tonepoet Well, if we can imbibe nicotine with less risk that we get when drinking coffee, why should we quit?

shudders

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK, the name I will not defend. I agree with you on that one.

@terdon self-face-punching

vaping is still too close to smoking in my mind.

public service announcements on their way

It's like, smoking lite. smoking for people who don't want to own it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and reality too

@terdon Oh and there's one other thing. Let us suppose that the mortality rate was somewhat lower than smoking, but substantially higher than abstinence. Promoting vaping as a healthier alternative may cause more people to vape under the assumption that it's safe, causing higher overall death tolls.

@terdon I can ingest nicotine by inhaling burning tobacco which is much safer than rubbing the leaves in an open wound

And that's a shame.

@Mitch Um. Not at all sure that's true actually. Burning stuff, any stuff is bad.

@terdon but it's much safer than opening wounds all the time.

@Tonepoet yes, this too.

@Tonepoet Well, obviously! But why in the world would we assume such a silly thing in the absence of any evidence suggesting it? If there were a mortality rate to begin with, my position would be very different.

@terdon but again, you're basing your non-mortality rate on the most basic vape, which is not, I think, what the majority of vapers do.

I repeat: the danger of smoking has nothing to do with what you're smoking and everything to do with combustion. Removing combustion from the picture changes everything.

@terdon I'm not saying we should assume such a thing. I'm just addressing the particular question you asked.

@terdon I don't know. It's like seatbelts. seems a little authoritarian to force people by fear of fines to wear them. but lung cancer rates are dropping because of taxes on tobacco.

Look man I can't solve legislation of morals here in the length of a chat post.

it'll take two or three at least.

Sadly, most people don't actually understand why smoking is dangerous and tend to assume it's somehow because of the nicotine. It isn't.

@Mitch use more than one chat post.

maybe four

4chat?

@terdon That sounds disgusting.

@terdon :D

@terdon Yeah, you're right on this point. Nicotine is found in tomatoes and eggplant too, which are both quite healthy for you.

Um. Thanks, although the fact that it's found there is no indication of its safety.

I just know it is bad for lungs. And nicotine.

A delicious plate of nicotine:

@englishstudent Meant to address this earlier. There's two things to consider: 1. A statement like "people are idiots" can be meant in an absolute way, including the speaker, which means the speaker (perhaps jokingly) admits to being an idiot (at least sometimes).

I honestly have looked into this quite a bit. Me and my PhD in biology (pretentious as that sounds)

2. Statements that appear to be absolute are common in English and must always be taken in context. Most things are not strictly absolute.

@terdon I'm all ears. Any interesting facts about why is it bad (smoking) besides nicotine?

@Tonepoet a single banana is the unit of radiation exposure due to its large amounts of radioactive potassium

It's a fact.

Look it up

@terdon psh. We live in a post-expert world. So-called experts with their "training" are just part of the conspiracy! Just believe what feels right!

Don't mix bananas and eggplant. That's nasty

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah now that makes sense :) I mean if speaker is included too.

@englishstudent The nicotine isn't very harmful. It's the tar, and the other stuff that enters your lungs from the combustion of the paper, and tobacco.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And calling myself an expert on this just because I have a PhD in the general field is cheating. I just wanted to point out that I do have the requisite level of knowledge to refer to the original scientific studies and not rely on newspaper articles.

@englishstudent The speaker isn't necessarily included. When evaluating an absolute statement, you have to choose the most likely application based on context.

This is why qualifiers exist.

@terdon Heh. I do believe you when you say you've read the studies. I just feel that the studies haven't studied the whole picture... that your "basic vape" is not common enough to draw conclusions on the whole vape industry.

@terdon We don't doubt any of that.

@Tonepoet Yeah but qualifiers can be clutter.

@englishstudent The main things are i) free radicals released by combustion which can cause mutation (=> cancer) and ii) carbon monoxide which is a product of imperfect combustion and which has a far higher affinity to haemoglobin (the molecule whose job it is to transfer oxygen around the bloodstream) than oxygen does. This leads to a saturation of your haemoglobin with CO, and consequent inability to bind O2 which, in turn leaves you breathless.

Then there are all sorts of other things all of which contribute. Those two are the main issues though.

Like, when people say "Meat is murder", what does that mean? It's a pretty absolute statement. But you're made of meat, so does that mean you're made of murder? No. You have to fill in the context to understand their meaning.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's a valid point. It just doesn't mean that the concept is wrong or dangerous, only that we should be careful how we deal with it.

@terdon Ah thanks. Quite technical.

I've heard that a lot of people in the past died from lung disease because of all the smoke from cooking fires.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, yes. I had read about it then forgotten. :)

@Mitch Sure. It's the same basic problem. Probably worse, if anything, since there's all sort of particules floating around in there.

also, charred grill meat is more cancerous than just cooked meet

I've heard.

@Mitch But it is tasty too. :(

yes. Why can't anything good be not so bad for you?

Just don't eat it all the time I guess

Yep!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's true, but still when you lack them, the statement is inherently subject to interpretation, which may vary in results.

@Mitch Todo lo que me gusta es ilegal, inmoral o engorda.

How about a vaping pipe that is shaped like a, well, not a pipe, but rather shaped like a pacifier?

@Mitch Do you want to be surrounded by a bunch of big babies?

@Mitch Did you ever do erm drugs like when you were young? Just curious because I hear some kids are used to that there.

I'm a clean boy by the way. No drugs etc. lel.

@englishstudent Are you calling him old?

@Tonepoet Or...now don't dismiss this too quickly... suppositories.

@terdon I don't know. Sounds old lel.

They're a well established medication delivery device.

@Mitch Actually, to my great surprise, they're still very popular (yes, among able-bodied adults) in France.

@terdon Yeah @englishstudent, are you calling me old?

@terdon depends on the medication

@Mitch Although, to be fair, I get the feeling that @englishstudent is quite young.

So I hear drugs take all the worries etc. I feel like doing them when I'm depressed but no sir, my mom and dad will kill me. :P

@Mitch Even toothpaste man. It's insane!

@terdon No judgment.

@terdon ...

@Mitch erm sorry if I gave you that impression. I meant you are a young lad!

;-)

@Mitch Too far? Yeah. Damn.

That's an ellipsis in italics, if you know what I mean.

@englishstudent How dare you imply that I am immature!

haha

I'm scared of Mitch now!

lel

You should be. He's the scariest five year old you're likely to meet today.

:D

@terdon Well, it depends on how far you ... put ... it.

I'm afraid that's probably not what you meant.

@Mitch Ha! I knew you wouldn't be able to resist stooping to my level.

Trying to put the 'toothpaste' back in the 'tube'

@terdon ew

@Mitch That's not a suppository, it's a bullet.

Phew, thanks. I always get those two confused.

Makes for some very disgruntled soldiers, let me tell you.

@terdon I sincerely hope the worst of that is suppository shortages.

also 'equipment malfunction'

'failure to launch'

or failure to launch

Failure to lunch?

Well anyway speaking of drugs, cigarettes and all the addictive activities. I think sex tops them all.

when my wife was a community pharmacist, during the ... 2010? or so? Papal visit to Toronto, there were thousands of young foreign people in the city. She got all kinds of requests for weird medication, including for acetaminophen suppositories (for treating headaches)

Oops. Did I say that out loud? :P

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. I think of suppositories as something that babies take, for practical reasons. Only in France have I seen them habitually used as a method of delivery for adults.

@Mitch You succeeded in dodging my question by the way.

@RegDwigнt Close! 'vaporarium'

@terdon it reminds me of the start of the Trainspotting movie.

Heh, yeah.

@terdon Oh dang...thanks for reminding me...

I am going to assume you had forgotten about lunch. If I'm wrong, please let me wallow in my ignorance.

@terdon Ancient Irish curse: May you wallow in your ignorance.

@Mitch That's actually a well known ancient hippopotamus blessing.

@englishstudent Try tetris. Good ol' fashioned tetris.

@Tonepoet lmao, you are funny. I used to play tetris by the way. Do you play online games?

It came from Russia, with fun, and ended The Cold War! Well, not really.

I love strategy games, first person shooter, third person etc.

I don't get much time now but I was a hell of a gamer in the past.

You can't beat me in Modern Warfare easily. :P

@englishstudent I may have mentioned this before but I played The Battle for Wesnoth, Realm of the Mad God and Hunted to Extinction II.

@Tonepoet Ah you play them on Playstation I guess. I modified my computer and played games on it.

@englishstudent They're all computer games. They're just not big budget titles.

I'm pretty sure Hunted to Extinction was a no budget title.

Also, if you enjoy tetris more than sex then, well, good for you! :P

@englishstudent While sex is always pleasant, it becomes slightly less of an obsession when you get past 30.

I said slightly.

It is good game though. Not doubt about it.

@terdon Oh good to know. :)

You guys are awesome. lel.

@Tonepoet I only play big budget titles. I have spent hundreds of hours on Assassins Creed series. It was fun, but now when I think about it, it seems like I wasted a lot of time on that game.

I would go through the walkthrough then play, then look at walkthrough then play and so forth. It was time consuming.

@englishstudent Try Wesnoth. It's a little hard to learn, but it's free and online play doesn't require an account.

Sure. I will. Thanks.

How do you figure? @tchrist

(That Trump is coloured.)

@skullpetrol You should get yourself a color tv set. The man is bright orange!

Now that makes sense @terdon :-D

@skullpetrol Is not orange a color?

@terdon Give it time; this too shall pass.

@tchrist Something to look forward to, huh?

Oh hey, @tchrist, are you familiar with the it's not any too hard construct? And, if so, does it seem natural to you?

@terdon Sounds Suvvun.

I wouldn't say it.

@tchrist We discussed this in the TL the other day. It was used by a Canadian (native English speaker) and while most of the others there found it strange, at least one didn't. Turns out it had its heyday in the 30s.

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Tardé un rato a darme cuenta que no se trataba de pez como pescado. Por un momento pensé que en Latin había una palabra dedicada para decir pegar con un pescado.

haha

A pájaro carpintero is any woodpecker. Don't be tricked into thinking it means Pica pica.

Which is a magpie.

Una urraca.

Of course.

Every time I read about some Doña Urraca I giggle.

That's Lady Magpie to you and me.

I just want to point out that (cdr (cdr (cdr (cdr '(in (front (of (the car)))))))) evaluates to car.

cddddr

@tchrist It's the saddest thing I've heard today.

But no worries; it's only half past one in the morning.

@Færd Plato at 80 said he was glad to be rid of it.

He found other hobbies, did he?

@tchrist I CONSidered it.