English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

SmokeDetector

00:08

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating words in answer: What is the proper comma placement around an Author's Name? by Bob on english.stackexchange.com

Mitch

00:57

Everything could fall apart at any moment.

SmokeDetector

04:31

[ SmokeDetector ] Request for explanation: Explain All types of conditional verbs and usages by Mohan Kute on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

04:43

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: Explain All types of conditional verbs and usages by Mohan Kute on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

05:03

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post, request for explanation: "went on" vs. "would later go on" by Mindful Living on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

07:22

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: Is it appropriate to use "sport", "champ", or "kiddo" to call a child (e.g. your son)? by kerry on english.stackexchange.com

[ SmokeDetector ] Request for explanation: What happened? What had happened? or What has happened? by Mr. MagicGoat on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

07:39

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: One of very many vs one of several by Lotus on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

11:06

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: I am very interested in using this site, but even after reading the response to how points can be earned, by Pamela Ariel on english.stackexchange.com

Dan Bron

15:34

Is SmokeDetector only flagging posts that look like the recent spam wave, or general LQ posts? I don't want to spam-flag a normal LQ post.

Andrew Leach

Smoke detector has been tweaked due to the recent spam wave. Don't spam-flag something you're not sure of: mods can investigate these reports with a few tools which help to bolster intuition (although intuition is a very good start).

SmokeDetector

15:51

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: Meaning of "They say! What say they? Let them say." by SVN600 on english.stackexchange.com

Andrew Leach

16:14

I have finally worked out why the blog widget I'm using to display Tweets isn't working.

The Twitter API isn't following the documentation, and data is incomplete.

:-(

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Request for explanation: Find a corresponding adjective with a higher degree of emphasis by Đỗ Tiến on english.stackexchange.com

Dan Bron

16:40

SmokeDetector is a bit overzealous, methinks

BTW @AndrewLeach, I suppose the answer to "can you show me RegDwight's comments under the 'Harrible' question" is "no"? It's ok, but I'd like a definitive answer either way.

Andrew Leach

17:24

@DanBron Reg only mentioned Russian, which doesn't seem relevant to English. There was one mention of the cat-cot merger, and another asserting that NYC had quite a few different accents. However, they were only mentions and didn't go on to say anything really definite.

Saladin

Hello @AndrewLeach

Andrew Leach

@DanBron So, currently I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but whatever it is, it probably isn't there.

@Saladin Hello Saladin.

Dan Bron

17:41

@AndrewLeach Ok, your call. I don't think it hurts to share it with me, but I'm not married to the idea either.

Mazura

"What is a word or phrase that describes [a comment] that offers no context or value?" - "Is there a word for a comment which makes no sense or adds nothing to the current discussion?" Am I just a crazy old curmudgeon, or is one of those a dupe?

Hellion

Late answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/363689/2490 What the heck is all that I don't even.

Mazura

@DanBron - I think there's a script that can do that; see stuff low reps can't. Or are deleted comments mods only?

Dan Bron

@Mazura I have all the privs you can get on the site. I can see deleted Qs and As, but not deleted comments.

Mazura

@Hellion Well.... how obtuse.

Hellion

17:53

Indeed.

Mazura

Maybe OP was just trying to be a cute.

I'm here all week ;)

Hellion

It's all right, you're not out of line. Maybe we can circle back and try, triangle again later.

Justyna Nogala

What do naitive speakers say more often? Stop making noise or stop banging?

bluefeet

@Mazura comment, post, really anything that offers no value

Mazura

@JustynaNogala Quit banging, or enough with the noise, is what my parents would say.

@bluefeet That's garbage ;p

bluefeet

18:05

@Mazura exactly, you win!

Justyna Nogala

@Mazura and what would You say?

Mazura

@bluefeet I came across moot in one of those links.

@JustynaNogala Relax. (Also one of my P's favorites)

Justyna Nogala

cool

bluefeet

@Mazura there are various things that could work, I honestly couldn't think of a good alternative to noisy. I'm still debating my final pick

Mitch

@DanBron By "Bergson', I was intending the absolute opposite of the "You had me at 'hello'" idea. hilarious, right?

Justyna Nogala

18:11

Can I use how instead of what is some situations?

For instance. What a strange bird was hovering over the city this morning. How strange a bird...

was hovering over the city this morining.

?

Mazura

@bluefeet Also, redundant. But things that are redundant aren't necessarily irrelevant. I still like "actively detracts or adds nothing" (trolling or useless). Would the Be Nice let us use garbage? How 'bout gibberish? ;)

bluefeet

@Mazura I'm not sure gibberish fits because gibberish would be stuff like 'sdjfgasjkdfbasldfhalsdfh' but not necessary comments like 'thanks for the great answer'

Mazura

@JustynaNogala How strange a thing it was, [this bird hovering over the city this morning. rings a bell...

bluefeet

The point of my question to get some ideas for terms other than 'noisy' because while that fits, I'm not sure users looking at a list of options will understand what that means.

Mitch

@JustynaNogala Not in those two examples

They don't mean the same thing and neither is correct usage

Dan Bron

18:17

@Mitch Ha. Missed that. Actually yes, it is funny.

Mitch

"What a strange bird!" or "What a strange bird it is!"

Justyna Nogala

I know. Just wanted to know if I could have achieved some kind of emphasis using such a structure.

Mitch

@DanBron It might actually have some sense to it, if one is conversant with tall the philosophical references.

But who has the patience for that?

It could be they ran out of meds ... OR... they are in grad school

or both!

Dan Bron

@Mitch He starts out right on orthogonality, but then veers into modern day woo. I think it's more mysticism and self-actualization BS than academic philosophy. I also don't think anyone who's serious about philosophy would eschew paragraph breaks and other structure.

Mazura

@bluefeet moot : (2) "of little or no practical value, meaning, or relevance; purely academic:"

Mitch

18:20

@JustynaNogala (con't'd) You can't say "What a strange bird was hovering...", "What a strange bird ACTIVEVERB ..."

@DanBron maybe they have longer paragraphs, or much less need to take a breath.

bluefeet

@Mazura nice

Mitch

Which could be caused by lack of meds

Justyna Nogala

next question. When you say "I was just passing by" or something like that. Can you say "Flew by" which would mean (a bird flew to us and then flew off)?

@mitch why ?

Mitch

@JustynaNogala depends (needs to be modified for correct past tense forms)

"I just flew by"

means ...well... I flew by?

Justyna Nogala

A bird just flew by and disappeared.

Mitch

18:24

If a bird flew to us and then flew off, most likely it landed, and that's not 'flying by'. Flying by you don't bother to land.

@JustynaNogala Annoying bird.

Mazura

Not if it "flew to us and then flew off". That's visited [by a bird].

Mitch

@Mazura oh. sure.

Justyna Nogala

Ok ;)

Mitch

@JustynaNogala "How strange a bird was hovering over the city this morning" something about that sounds off but I can't tell.

Normally one would just say "How strange. A bird was hovering over the city this morning."

bluefeet

kinda funny that I'm in here and you are all discussing birds

Dan Bron

18:27

@Mitch It's ambiguous in the sense that you don't know if the bird was a strange bird, or that it's unusual for a bird to hover over the city

Justyna Nogala

This is what I mean. The full sentence would be: How strange a thing it was, this bird which flew by and then disappeared?

Mitch

@bluefeet You're not used to that?

Justyna Nogala

@Mitch

Mitch

This is the English Language and Bird Usage chatroom

bluefeet

@Mitch depends on the day and the room

Mitch

18:29

@JustynaNogala Yeah that's fine.

Justyna Nogala

Thanks.

Mitch

@bluefeet I guess this is the day

Dan Bron

We could switch to discussing boobies.

Or tits.

bluefeet

the problem with that is it could be misinterpreted

Dan Bron

meaning people could think we're still talking about birds?

bluefeet

18:31

most definitely

:)

Mazura

You and Pureferret in the same room must be a hoot.

Justyna Nogala

A mole lives in a burrow or a pit?

Dan Bron

@JustynaNogala Most likely.

Mitch

defeinitly not a pit

a pit is a big open hole in the ground

Justyna Nogala

Oh yeah.

Mitch

18:33

a burrow might work

Justyna Nogala

Children drove a mole back to its burrow.

Mitch

I've only ever known about moles burrow ing. never thought about where the tunnel ends up

@JustynaNogala Children are cruel like that.

Justyna Nogala

@Mitch I've always thought moles
were bigger until I saw one of those bastards in my garden.

Mitch

WHen we used to see the evidence of mole tunnels in our yard when I was a kid (it looked just like in the cartoons, a little ridge that travelled through the yard) we used to walk on it to smush it back down again.

Mazura

"Moles are able to reuse the oxygen inhaled when above ground, and as a result, are able to survive in low-oxygen environments such as underground burrows."

Mitch

18:37

@JustynaNogala moles I think fit in your hand with lots of room to spare.

Justyna Nogala

xD

@Mitch Yeah, they are the size of a mouse.

Mitch

maybe slightly bigger than mice. thinner than gerbils

not rat size at all

all this talk is making me hungry.

Mazura

That depends on how big your rats are.

Justyna Nogala

I've always wondered how they build their tunnels if 100% of them are blind.

They sniff?

Mitch

It's not like they're moving that fast and will hurt themselves if they crash

I think once you're underground there's not much light anyway.

yeah...sniff. or when you can't go any further, you stop.

but finding your way in tunnels you've already made?

left hand rule?

or is it right hand?

Justyna Nogala

18:40

In Polish we call rats (snitchers) MOLES.

Mazura

@JustynaNogala "Although they can see, the mole's eyesight is poor, with no ability to detect colours, just light from dark and movement."

Mitch

@JustynaNogala Oh. That might be confusing scientifically. In practice I'd prefer not to hold either in my hand.

Justyna Nogala

Do they have jams in their tunnels?

congestions or whatever you call them?

Mitch

I hope there are not that many moles down there.

a jam

Justyna Nogala

For a traffic jam use a hardshoulder

lol

Mazura

18:43

They're solitary creatures, otherwise there's a fight going on.

Anonymous

@JustynaNogala What do you call moles ("a spy who has worked his or her way into an organization or country") then?

Mitch

'jams' sounds like they have a variety of fruit preserves to spread on their toast

@snailplane haha, that's totally a rat!

Justyna Nogala

@snailplane exactly

Mitch

a rat is someone who tells on someone else, a tattle-tale but for adults.

Justyna Nogala

we call them moles cuz their dig tunnels in somebody's organisation.

Anonymous

18:45

What about rats that aren't moles?

Justyna Nogala

Mole can snitch too.

Mitch

a mole is a secret agent, pretending to work for the government of Fredonia but passing state secrets to the the Fenwickians

Justyna Nogala

Rats are rats. Small mammals that stink and spread diseases.

Anonymous

Rats are intelligent and adorable creatures.

Anonymous

Moles are also cute, mind you.

Justyna Nogala

18:45

Moles>rats

Anonymous

Rats are cuter, though.

Justyna Nogala

Rats can walk out of your toilet

Moles can only dig in the ground.

Anonymous

Rats can't walk out of my toilet.

Justyna Nogala

Moles can snitch on other moles.

Mitch

moles are ugly skin marks.

@snailplane maybe you just don't have the right kind of toilet

Pissed off layman

18:47

Mole = 6.02 X 10 ^23

Anonymous

@Mitch Also, I haven't met many rats that are good at walking.

Justyna Nogala

what?

Rats can bite through a concrete wall

Children drove a mole back to its burrow. They dug out the burrow – there was no sign of the mole at all.

Pissed off layman

Mole (unit)

The mole is the unit of measurement in the International System of Units (SI) for amount of substance. It is defined as the amount of a chemical substance that contains as many elementary entities, e.g., atoms, molecules, ions, electrons, or photons, as there are atoms in 12 grams of carbon-12 (12C), the isotope of carbon with relative atomic mass 12 by definition. This number is expressed by the Avogadro constant, which has a value of 7023602214085700000♠6.022140857(74)×1023 mol−1. The mole is one of the base units of the SI, and has the unit symbol mol. The mole is widely used in chemistry as...

Anonymous

> This number is expressed by the Avogadro constant, which has a value of 7023602214085700000♠6.022140857(74)×1023 mol−1.

Mitch

@snailplane You haven't met the right kind of rat.

Anonymous

18:50

Thanks, oneboxing.

Pissed off layman

;-)

Anonymous

I usually prevent oneboxing, since it tends to munge whatever it's quoting.

Anonymous

I don't always remember, though.

Mitch

pie rats 1) have earrings 2) parrots 3) good taste in pastry

Mazura

I met a rat once that (literally) stood its ground, screaming at me and my two cats; both accomplished hunters. We let him leave.

Mitch

18:53

@Pissedofflayman I always thought that was kind of messed up, it's just a number.

@Mazura crazy beats power every time

Pissed off layman

Yup, the unit "/mole" is kind of messed up.

But that's the definition.

Mitch

chemistry. pfft

knowledge...pfft

Pissed off layman

pfft

:D

Mitch

now a rat screaming at you in a corner... yes, let him pass

Pissed off layman

didn't they spread the Black Plague?

Mitch

18:59

looks sideways

Link to study: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166446 #rats #animalcognition https://t.co/EYHTQelBxN

Tweeted by animalcog on December 15, 2016 at 6:30 PM

Mazura

@Mitch We three stopped and looked to each other for who was going to take point. There were no volunteers.

Mitch

from:

What Rogue One would be called if it was left up to the people currently having a meltdown in the Daily Mail commen… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809034290474455041

Tweeted by TechnicallyRon on December 14, 2016 at 1:56 PM in reply to TechnicallyRon

Pissed off layman

modern bubonic plague was a rodent disease and often one dependent on the house rat.

Justyna Nogala

Do you have any shorter form of a word "great-grandfather"?

like Grandpa

Pa

Mom

Dad.

great-grandapa?

Mitch

nope. not in English

vorgroßvater?

Mazura

19:08

@Pissedofflayman Overabundance of any species is likely to spread disease. Looking at you, humanity. You're more likely to "catch and transmit parasites and viruses" from your cat or dog than a rat, according to PETA. But The Plague was a bacteria, so....

Justyna Nogala

I remember how/like my great-grandfather used to...

Pissed off layman

Great grandpa

Justyna Nogala

I guess grammaticaly correct is only "how"

or I remember my great-grandfather talking etc.

Mitch

??

grammtically just like 'grandfather'?

great-grandfather

great-great-grandfather

and it keeps going

Dan Bron

@Mazura As a professional salesman, I can smell spin a mile off. PETA is correct in the sense that humans are more likely to catch diseases from pets than from vermin, but not because pets are nastier, but because we spend more time around them. There's lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Mitch

19:12

Ants...they'll mess you up

Anonymous

In defence of /ˈlɪtʃ(ə)n/ , see this article from The Spectator. — JHCL Oct 20 '15 at 12:21

Anonymous

@JHCL: Great job finding that! Can you please post it as an answer? I think it deserves more visibility, and I ran out of comment upvotes at the moment. :) — sumelic Nov 3 '15 at 11:05

Anonymous

The link is broken now, though.

Anonymous

Oh, here we go: spectator.co.uk/2012/11/lichen

Anonymous

Oh, it wasn't a very good article.

Anonymous

19:14

Sad.

Mitch

'lichen' rhymes with 'kitchen'? Sure if you pronounce the latter as 'kai ken'

Anonymous

@Mitch Yeah, no.

Anonymous

My friend just claimed that that's "the British way". I claimed in response that that's not quite accurate.

Pissed off layman

Is your friend British?

Anonymous

Nope.

Anonymous

19:16

Nor am I.

Anonymous

John Wells does list both pronunciations in his Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, but the one he marks as a "main" pronunciation (a target for learners) is the liken one.

Pissed off layman

Oh, ok :-)

Anonymous

@Pissedofflayman No, of course you're not correct.

Mazura

@DanBron From my five seconds of research, pet rats require no vaccinations.

Anonymous

Please don't edit your messages to contain responses. That's confusing.

Dan Bron

19:18

@Mazura Because no one cares if they die, most likely ;)

Anonymous

I try not to make up facts about languages, whether I speak them natively or not. Instead, I try to learn what those facts are to the best of my ability and report them, or discuss them if the facts are unclear.

Pissed off layman

I made a mistake, sorry.

Anonymous

In this case, it seems like there are speakers who say both. I think that's also true in the U.S.

Dan Bron

@snailplane Well, you're missing out ;)

I can only imagine someone saying lich-en if they've only read the word and never heard it pronounced.

Anonymous

@DanBron That's my first impression. But spelling pronunciations do get passed around sometimes.

Pissed off layman

19:21

Pronunciation is so...local

Anonymous

Anyway, the kitchen pronunciation is well enough established to be listed in dictionaries.

Pissed off layman

Btw "Britex" made it into the OED

Anonymous

Is that an anagram of Brexit?

Pissed off layman

Oops, yes

Anonymous

@Pissedofflayman Sometimes there isn't enough data to really track who pronounces what how.

Pissed off layman

19:25

True.

Mazura

Attenborough says liken I think. I (an American) say lich-en

Anonymous

I think the liken pronunciation is favored here and there both, though.

Anonymous

I would guess you can find the spelling pronunciation (if that is what it is) everywhere, though.

Anonymous

So far it seems that way.

Mazura

In the international scientific community, probably. Colloquially, in the Midwest, I think it's more often than not the other.

Pissed off layman

19:31

blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2016/12/brexit-enters-oed

Mazura

When it's in a non-British dictionary, let me know ;p

Anonymous

Well, it's clearly a word.

Anonymous

Not sure how much staying power it has, though.

Anonymous

Do you think historians will use the term Brexit in fifty years?

Mazura

I had already forgot it until you just mentioned it.

Pissed off layman

19:36

Perhaps as a reference point.

If they re-enter the Union...

...in fifty years :-)

Mazura

If the entire Union self-destructs, yes, it will be a Wiki page titled The Brexit Effect.

Pissed off layman

Good point.

I heard France is taking about "Frexit"

SmokeDetector

20:00

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: Is "curmudgeonous" a word? by Oblivion Yohen on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

20:49

[ SmokeDetector ] Possible low-quality post: difference between I EXPECTED and I HAD EXPECTED by Per on english.stackexchange.com

Guildenstern

Hey guys. Quick question. In the phrase/word “key-value”, is the line supposed to be an en dash or a hyphen? Example use: “key-value store”, “it is a key-value pair”.

Shafizadeh

Is this sentence correct?

> How can I ignore throwing error when I initialize a negative number to a unsigned column?

Guildenstern

@Shafizadeh *an unsigned

Shafizadeh

ah tnx

Guildenstern

Probably also *an error

Shafizadeh

20:55

ah :-)

Mazura

21:22

@Guildenstern Wiki can't decide if it's either. Perhaps stores should take a hyphen, and pairs take an en dash (but it should be a slash, IMO - but computers don't like it when you use slashes ;). But really, I've got no clue.

Mitch

21:38

@Guildenstern My keyboard has this thing underneath the underscore. I don't know what you call it but it's the only thing I have for a dash, en-, em-, or otherwise, or hyphen. So I have no idea. There's an ELU question about it.

208

Q: When should I use an em-dash, an en-dash, and a hyphen?

I generally know how to use a hyphen, but when should I use an en-dash instead of an em-dash, or when should I use a hyphen instead of an em-dash?

angels on a pinhead

Cerberus

Dropbox is so annoying.

I'm glad I've now switched to Owncloud and Seafile.

I get complete control over my cloud.

Where I host it, etc.

And it's still free, and it only takes a few more clicks to set up than Dropbox.

In fact, it is easier to get more free space.

And I can host it in a safe country.

Mazura

@Mitch So then the question is if key - value is a relationship or a compound construction. That's what I was trying to get at with key–value(s) and databases of key-values.

One of them is a relationship, and one a compound construction, respectively. (?)

Mitch

21:54

@Cerberus Wow...is there ever a choice?

@Cerberus are those replicators or actual file repositories?

@Mazura try another relationship that's not also a compound construction and see how that feels.

sky-light

Hi

Using "the" in the following case is right or wrong:
The authors of this article investigated the characteristic of ...
Or
Authors of this article investigated the characteristic of ...

Mazura

22:14

@Mitch It feels like everything is geared towards people who use computers too much O.o

@sky-light I've no problem with ~~the~~ omission of the

Mitch

@sky-light 'The authors'

haha...contra-jinx

@Mazura In the context of writing a paper, it's most likely referring to a particular article and so likely that one would want to refer to -all- the authors, rather than imply that only some of them did an investigation.

Cerberus

@Mitch I'm not sure what you mean?

I can host my Owncloud and my Seafile with whichever party I choose, or even host it myself.

Mazura

@Mitch I don't see how [All the] Authors would make any difference, or why one should assume that it was only some of them (with or without all or the) unless specifically stated. It's a question of style.

Cerberus

@Mitch What does that mean?

Either can do the same things Dropbox can.

(Dropbox is removing a feature yet again today, which triggered my rant.)

Mitch

@Cerberus Which feature?

Cerberus

22:22

The public folder.

You can't easily share a file that way any more.

Mitch

Oh

Cerberus

Super annoying.

Mazura

I don't like this 'cloud' stuff. I like my hard storage.

Cerberus

Now I have to change several other things and find a replacement.

@Mazura You have your files stored at both places.

If the cloud should fall on our heads, we'd still have our home copies.

Mitch

@Cerberus I meant that I never considered that one might be able to choose the geographical location (around the world) where your files are hosted.

Guildenstern

22:24

@Mazura I think you mean the AltGr key. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key

Cerberus

@Mitch Okay, well, one might! Indeed, one does!

Mazura

Banking on the cloud is like banking on Social Security to be there for me in 50 years... no thanks.

Cerberus

I have chosen a German host.

@Mazura Banking in what sense?

As in counting on, or as in managing your bank account?

Mazura

@Guildenstern I use ALT 0150

@Cerberus Counting on.

Guildenstern

@Mazura I see, so you use Windows. I’ve heard about those “alt-code” — it sounds very annoying. :) I wouldn’t bother with proper slashes if I had to use that.

Mazura

22:27

ELU yelled at me enough to start using it ;p

Guildenstern

Having to memorize hex values is just blegh.

Mazura

Also, there's Alt 0151

They're the only two I use and know.

Guildenstern

Haha! :D
To me the, how hard it is to input is the biggest problem for adoption. People should try to fix that. Not to pester people who have to use subpar interfaces for inputting characters... :)

Mazura

I have a real ellipsis stored at the end of my profile description.

For circumventing comment length ;)

Guildenstern

By “adoptation”, I mean using more than ASCII characters (regular old Latin alphabet a la English, more or less) on computers. Usually Unicode

Nice :p Should be useful for tweets as well

By the way, improving character input (for us Westerners) is something that I want to work on. In my capacity as a programmer. I’m based on Linux though.

sky-light

22:31

Thank you.

Cerberus

@Mazura It depends on how you are using the cloud and on what the alternative is.

Mazura

My safe ;)

Mitch

@Cerberus It's possible with AWS instances, but I'd expect consumer file hosting not to bother allowing that.

Can you choose to host in let's say South Africa with Owncloud?

Guildenstern

@Mazura Thanks. I’m leaning towards using an en dash. My reasoning is that “key-value” has always looked slightly weird, and sounded weird, as a noun (or compound noun?). I didn’t get what the hyphen was supposed to connect. But if I change “key-value” to “key-to-value”, then it makes more sense. And then if I abbreviate that by replacing the “to” with an en dash, to “key–value” — well then it can start making sense to me. :)

What do you think about that reasoning?

Mazura

@Guildenstern You're asking someone who has the grammar tag on ignore ;)

Mitch

22:34

@Guildenstern YOur reasoning is sound, but I happen to disagree with your sense data.

Guildenstern

What’s “sense data”?

sounds interesting

Mitch

key-value just means a key paired with a value

that feels very natural to me.

Mazura

@Guildenstern I can only surmise that my reasoning is why "Wiki can't decide"

Guildenstern

the thing is that the hyphen (under that interpretation) doesn’t make sense to me. The noun “key value” makes more sense, but I found the hyphen strange. Like, whence it came?

Mitch

@Mazura that, do, ?, you, can

@Guildenstern I only recognize that there's a short line, so it all works for me.

Mazura

22:37

@Mitch Yes, did I.

Cerberus

@Mitch I choose where to host my files. It's as simple as that. I pick a provider that offers Owncloud or Seafile, enter the credentials of my account there in my Windows client, and it all auto-synchs.

Plenty of OK Android clients, too.

Guildenstern

@Mazura Decide in what sense? Does it discuss the characters (sorry, kind of tired)? Or do you mean that they don’t use the en dash consistently (or not)? In that case, I’d just say that Wikipedia is very bad when it comes to using proper dashes in general. :-)

E.g., they seem to mostly use hyphen when they mean em dash.

Mitch

@Cerberus what choices do they give you? how refined? just by country or area of country?

Mazura

@Guildenstern Inconsistent use.

Guildenstern

By the way, how do I turn down the volume for the “bing” sound when my name is mentioned? :p it’s pretty loud

Mazura

22:41

Click the speaker icon.

BONK! @Guildenstern

Guildenstern

Ahhh!

I can’t find a volume control. I’ll just mute it. Thanks.

Pissed off layman

You can't adjust the volume

Mazura

gahh... "auto-synch" NO!!! Wait ! Stop!....

Cerberus

@Mitch They don't give you choices. You just use their software and find a hosting provider that offers Seafile hosting.

I found Bobcloud for Seafile.

I think it's 10GB for free, or something.

Mazura

I don't even have speakers hooked to my browse-box. No rickrolling for me, thank you very much.

Mitch

22:47

@Guildenstern click on the speaker icon next to 'all rooms'. there are choices.

@Cerberus Oh. Where it is hosted is separate from the software?

BUt that's extra work having to find hosting. That's almost the point of theses services.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes.

@Mitch It's point and click.

Mitch

Sure. Creating an AWS machine is also just point and click.

a lot of points and clicks

Mazura

Give me command line or give me death.

Guildenstern

@Mitch Yeah, I just can’t find a speaker choice.

By the way, I googled the issue, found this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/227028/…

Cerberus

23:06

@Mitch Is it also free and owned by a European company?

@Mitch This is not a lot. Just a few.

Mitch

@Cerberus 1) sort of (but not really) and 2) no. 1) you can get a 1 year free 'developers' trial.

@Cerberus OK. But with AWS you do get to say 'I want it hosted... here' (and point at a map)

What you're saying is that you need Seafile and bobcloud?

and you have to sign up for both separately?

Cerberus

@Mitch No, you go to Bobcloud (or any other hosting provider that offers Seafile hosting), create an account, and enter the credentials in your Seafile client on your computer.

If Bobcloud should go bust, you can just find another provider and click-click to move your libraries thither.

Even if Bobcloud should disappear without warning.

Ownclowd has many more hosting providers than Seafile, though.

Cerberus

23:24

Here is a page with some free hosting providers for Nextcloud, a fork of Owncloud: nextcloud.com/providers

Here for Owncloud: owncloud.org/providers

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