English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Arrowfar

01:51

@Mitch Oh wow, heh those messages just made me feel like calling you a * cough * misogynist * cough * ;)

Mitch

02:08

@MattE.Эллен WTF... does the following have any basis in facts?

Scone map of the UK and Ireland Source: Reddit user bezzleford https://t.co/eeNoOrrbPU

Tweeted by Amazing_Maps on December 13, 2016 at 12:30 AM

So some people actually don't rhyme 'scone' with 'gone' in the UK?

Anonymous

I bet they don't rhyme antiscone with Antigone.

Mitch

@Arrowfar taking the piss

Mick

@Mitch I've just eaten two -- hot, buttered and with generous dollops of apricot jam. I call 'em sgone.

Arrowfar

@Mitch Oh I know :)

Mitch

just making sure, you never know

@Mick they're just funny muffins right

Arrowfar

02:13

I didn't know a term could be 'Commonwealth' too.

Mick

@Mitch Mine didn't last long enough to think up any jokes.

Mitch

nice

Arrowfar

btw aren't I early today? it is only 7:15 am here.

Mitch

it's up to you if it's early

Arrowfar

normally I enter in the evening.

Mitch

02:20

it's late for me.

may not last.

Arrowfar

Btw, this is a secret site where you could type a name of a reddit user and see about them, their synopsis.

Mitch

reddit seems like the wild west. a bit lawless at times.

Arrowfar

I won't give my username though. My writing there is very out of the line mostly :)

Yeah very

The comments I make there (sometimes) would get be banned here in no time :)

Mitch

here is where I'm out of line. on reddit I'm more of a sedate librarian

Arrowfar

Oh I see. hah.

well, I am exaggerating myself, I am not that bad.

Mitch

02:24

Are there any books you'd like me to recommend to you?

Arrowfar

Sure. Go ahead.

Good classics maybe.

Mitch

I'm exaggerating terribly because I've never written anything on reddit

...that I remember.

@Arrowfar Jane Austen. She's funny. All the others of that time period she's making fun of.

Arrowfar

I have read Stephen King, Thomas Harris, Mario Puzo etc. in the past.

Mitch

Her sentences are kind of long.

Arrowfar

@Mitch Ah cool. I will definitely try, people here read her.

My English teacher at school also recommended me Jane Austen once. But I am lazy yanno :)

Mitch

02:28

@Arrowfar Puzo is good. King I've just never bothered to read. The movie comes out and I don't fell any compunction to read it after that.

Arrowfar

In eight grade I think.

Mitch

@Arrowfar They are a bit long.

Arrowfar

I see

Mitch

I'm trying to think of shorter classics but they all seem to be huge volumes

Kipling? But that's a little too ... colonial.

Wait... what did you say? 'Yanno'? what is that?

Anonymous

Eye dialect for "you know".

Anonymous

02:33

My friend threw me not too long ago with misewell.

Mitch

ohh... hah hah. I thought it was some perjorative.

@snailplane also '??'. me so well? oh...might as well?

Arrowfar

When I was young, young girls here would go for The Hardy Boys books and boys um, I don't remember. I read Enid Blyton etc.

I started reading English stories etc. quite late.

Anonymous

@Mitch Yep :-) Might as well.

Arrowfar

Enid Blyton is a good writer.

Mitch

Have you read... argh.. that book.. with the people in it.. and they talk... argh...by what's his name?

Anonymous

02:36

I guess the boys would read Nancy Drew then.

Mitch

Irving Welsh...

trainspotting

totally written in eyedialect

totally incomprehensible

Arrowfar

Ah but isn't that rated? I mean adult stuff?

Mitch

until you read it aloud.

Arrowfar

I might be misremembering.

Mitch

and then you magically have a scottish accent.

@Arrowfar It's pretty bad yes.

Arrowfar

02:37

heh

Anonymous

@Mitch Audiobook version!

Mitch

I think actually worse than the movie

Arrowfar

Wow

I have heard of that movie heh.

That's like 40% porn, 60% clean right? well anyway.

Anonymous

Er? What are we talking about?

Arrowfar

The movie trainspotting

Mitch

02:40

@snailplane I never read either. I remember seeing both series in people's bookshelves (not in the same bookshelf) but never myself.

Anonymous

I think it's about drugs mainly, not porn.

Arrowfar

Ah I have never watched it. I have just heard about it.

Mitch

@Arrowfar I don't remember porn, mostly revolting drug use and the revolting things they do.

Arrowfar

I see. Someone misguided me then heh.

Mitch

As far as that goes, I think Titanic has more in it.

Arrowfar

02:43

Here they censor stuff, by the way.

Even Youtube. They just opened it last Dec.

Mitch

Did anybody here cry at Titanic?

Arrowfar

I didn't. You?

Anonymous

Yep. But I was a teenager and cried at the drop of a hat back then :-)

Mitch

No. But everybody else says they did and I feel sort of callous for not.

Arrowfar

whose hat?

Cerberus

02:46

It was admittedly a cry-worthy scene, but I don't remember whether I cried.

Err, I mean, what film?

Arrowfar

Hello Cerb

Anonymous

Sir Hattingsworth.

Arrowfar

?

Cerberus

I mean, what, what is that, 'Titanic'? Is it a ship?

Anonymous

Every time his hat drops.

Arrowfar

02:46

I see

Mitch

@snailplane hahah. I felt bad for all the poor people who couldn't even get to the top deck. but it was just a movie.

Cerberus

Hello.

Mitch

and then when ...

wait...I'm not giving anything away am I?

Cerberus

@Mitch That's mean. You should say "I did" after asking such a question.

Anonymous

@Mitch Yeah, that dancing scene was the emotional low point of the film.

Mitch

02:47

because you know... the title of the movie...

Arrowfar

@Mitch I always think it's just a movie and they are being paid good money, so why cry?

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm a mean and callous person. I think that's been established.

@snailplane Is that when you cried? I can see that.

I did get choked up when the band decided to keep playing.

because their playing was so terrible.

Cerberus

@Mitch Cool. Ireland surprises me. Everyone knows it's gone.

@Mitch Very well.

Mitch

@Cerberus Ireland. Pfft

mainly because there was all sorts of room on top for both him and Kate Winslett.

know what I'm sayin?

How about the movie Babe?

Cerberus

Don't you think it is better to delete spoilers?

@Mitch I agree.

Everyone thought that.

Stupid film.

Arrowfar

02:53

One movie series I like is LOTR. It is pretty good.

I have watched that like many times.

Mitch

@Arrowfar No one cries at that movie.

Arrowfar

Yeah, but I like that series.

Mitch

It's fun. The books are good too.

There's a lot of it that didn't make sense to me until I saw the movies.

Arrowfar

How about when Frodo is throwing the ring in the fire? I think some people cried at that? I dunno.

Tears of joy I mean.

Mitch

To be honest, that was a bit of a relief

Arrowfar

02:56

hah

Cerberus

@Mitch I've deleted it, OK?

@Mitch But...now you've done it again!

Mitch

@Cerberus nice. thanks. superpowers are nice if you use it for good.

Cerberus

MUWAHAHA

Arrowfar

@Cerberus Which spoiler? I missed it.

Cerberus

I mean, sure.

Mitch

02:57

@Cerberus what? you mean the boat doesn't make it?

Cerberus

@Arrowfar The ending of Titanic.

Mitch

sobs hysterically

Arrowfar

oh that

Cerberus

@Mitch About who doesn't...

Mitch

Well, let me give away the ending of Babe then...

Cerberus

02:58

Shhh!

Arrowfar

@Mitch I thought you were used to crying in a corner, lol. well I have read that in chat sometimes.

;)

Mitch

@Arrowfar sometimes in a corner, usually quietly into my hands.

but not because of a movie.

like 'babe'

Arrowfar

Btw, sometimes chat seems pathetic to me because there is no tone here. We are all deaf and blind here. Kind of.

Mitch

which ends ... in a certain way... for some of the animals.

Arrowfar

"babe" is a cartoon right?

Mitch

03:00

and certain other ways for certain other animals.

Arrowfar

googles

Mitch

I need say no more.

@Arrowfar live action with talking animals.

big training budget.

Arrowfar

ah yeah.

Mitch

pigs are easy to train, but sheep a like impossible

Arrowfar

I see.

Here we get goats sometimes.

Mitch

03:01

@Arrowfar turn up you audio, and we can ping you.

Arrowfar

I mean for the occasion.

@Mitch Hah, naah :)

Færd

I well up when I get emotional. And I get emotional very easily.

Cerberus

It gets worse as I get older.

And when I am tired.

Arrowfar

@Cerberus Do you get emotional often while watching a movie?

I mean while watching an emotional movie.

Færd

@Cerberus You'd have thought it would get better, but yeah.

Mitch

03:04

I'll give you something to cry about

Færd

But I don't assign value to things according to how high an emotional climax they deal me.

Mitch

when it's too deliberate, it loses its force

Færd

I can't control the crying. Sometimes at the stupidest things.

Frozen got me crying.

Mitch

Then don't watch Babe.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar I wouldn't say often, and I rarely watch films.

But it happens on occasion.

Mitch

03:06

You'll cry at the end when...

Arrowfar

Ah

Mitch

the pig pulls out a machete and slaughters all the sheep.

Cerberus

@Færd Absolutely. A scene that makes me cry might be like fastfood.

@Færd I remember crying at a commercial.

It was one I had even seen before.

I think I had hardly slept in days, which influences one's (negative) emotions badly.

People who don't get enough sleep are also far more often (clinically) depressed.

Mitch

So I guess Titanic did it for you?

Cerberus

I don't remember.

Mitch

03:08

also sleeping a lot is a sign of depression

Cerberus

Probably not, as I was young and it was at the cinema.

Mitch

hm...avoid Titanic then.

Færd

When I'm lacking sleep I tend to laugh for no reason.

I wonder how crazy I'm coming off right now.

Mitch

When I lack sleep I have a hard time falling a sleep. It's weird.

Færd

Yeah, and a hard time waking up.

Cerberus

03:11

@Færd Hmm I don't have that.

@Mitch Same here. I think it might be the adrenaline.

Færd

I literally get sleep-drunk.

Anonymous

@Færd Stop imbibing sleep!

Færd

That's what makes me drunk. What an irony.

Mitch

Like at the end of Titanic when Leonardo opens up his machine gun at the zombie onslaught and saves the baby in the carriage going down the steps while the out of control bus barrels towards.

That's a tear jerker.

Arrowfar

That's a bad spoiler.

Make a good one ;)

@snailplane That's a good word. Seems tricky to pronounce.

Mitch

03:18

@Arrowfar At the end of Titanic, when the ocean liner pulls into the dock and the featured actors leave on by one on the gang plank, the detective is standing there doing nothing letting them off even though he has incontrovertible evidence that they all were part of the murder plot, each one stabbing the murder victim, a horrific nazi camp commander who had ruined each of their lives.

which is funny because, hey, their lives weren't ruined that much if they were able to afford 1st class tickets on the Titanic.

Arrowfar

:D

well that's some good creative thinking by the way.

Færd

So, it's been said that could is not used in the sense of managed to (when you succeed in doing something) in positive sentences.

> I managed to eat a whole turkey last night. != * I could eat a whole turkey last night.

Mitch

@Arrowfar I'm just telling you how the movie plays out, to see who cried at which part.

Arrowfar

:)

Færd

Right? But what do you think about this one? :

Mitch

03:22

@Færd I could eat a turkey tonight. Last night I could have eaten a turkey.

Færd

> I thought if I could get him in the house I could seduce him.

@Mitch Corrected.

Anonymous

@Mitch I cried at the a capella rendition of 4'33" toward the end.

Mitch

> I thought if I managed to get him in the house...

that does sound pretty much the same

Arrowfar

@snailplane huh, I don't follow.

Færd

@Mitch That's what I'm asking about. Why is could not ungrammatical in that sentence?

Mitch

03:26

@snailplane Oh, I find the second movement the most moving.

Anonymous

@Færd "is could not"

Færd

Thanks.

Anonymous

Not can't invert with is because it's not an auxiliary. Isn't inverts because it's the negative inflectional form of is, with the inflectional affix -n't attached.

Færd

Yeah, I confused isn't with is not.

Mitch

"If I managed to' ~= "If I could..." ~= "if I were able to"

Anonymous

03:28

In an earlier stage of the language, -n't was a clitic form of not, a separate word which was phonologically dependent on the preceding word.

Anonymous

But then it was reanalyzed as an affix.

Mitch

@snailplane sorta like "that is int right"?

Færd

@Mitch So that's another exception to the rule.

Anonymous

@Færd Where?

Færd

9 mins ago, by Færd

So, it's been said that could is not used in the sense of managed to (when you succeed in doing something) in positive sentences.

Anonymous

03:31

@Færd When it's a single situation viewed perfectively, right?

Færd

What do you mean by perfectively?

Anonymous

I'm falling asleep, so I'm going to refer you to CGEL and try to resume the discussion tomorrow :-)

Færd

Have blue dreams!

I mean when you want to report that you succeeded in doing something.

Arrowfar

my laptop is making garag garag sound under the keyboard. It is getting old I think.

Mitch

@Arrowfar I think you eat too many Cheetos over your keyboard

Arrowfar

03:36

@Cerberus That's a good comment. +1.

@Mitch Haha I knew you would think of me as some Cheeto eating, basement dwelling guy lol. I am not. :) But I like Cheetos, I think they are good to have every now and then.

well i live in apartments so i can't live in a basement anyway.

you didn't say that but on the internet in other places if you eat cheetos then you are some kind of a loser... meh, I don't believe it. :)

Mitch

@Arrowfar 'garag garag' sounded crunchy is all.

Arrowfar

Ah :)

Mitch

@Arrowfar Oh. I'd never heard that before.

Arrowfar

oh I see

Cerberus

@Arrowfar Gracias.

Arrowfar

03:43

Welcome :)

It is +6 now.

Mitch

Cheetos is one of the four basic food groups. Cheetos, hot'n'spicy Cheetos, maple syrup, and spaghetti.

Arrowfar

lol

Mitch

hm.. where do Poptarts fit in?

Færd

Do they pop?

Mitch

No.

oh wait, sort of.

Arrowfar

03:46

Poptarts is USy thing I guess.

I have eaten them though.

Mitch

the 'pop' out of a toaster.

@Arrowfar yeah

Færd

Can you put tarts in a toaster?

Maybe not. I guess Pop Tarts are not tarts.

Arrowfar

Ok nice chatting, see you later @Mitch and all :)

Færd

See ya.

Okay. I think I got it. The sentence

> I thought if I could get him in the house I could seduce him.

is a report of a thought. It's the same as

> I thought: "If I can get him in the house I can seduce him.".

Mitch

@Arrowfar later

Færd

03:58

That's what licenses the use of could in the sense of manage to.

Mitch

@Færd yes, except for the pause after 'thought'

Færd

What pause?

Mitch

there's no pause at all in "I thought if I ..."

But there is in "I thoughtL 'If I...' "

Færd

Yes. That's true for reported speech generally, I think.

Mitch

yes

@Færd not usually. it's just a name they gave it.

OK. way too late for me. gnight

Færd

04:02

Good night!

Anyway, if it wasn't reported speech, could couldn't be used there to mean managed to:

> If I could get him in the house I could seduce him.

That means something else.

Færd

04:16

@Cerberus You can't save time by spending too little of it on necessities.

Take care.

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