English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:30

@M.A.R. Yeah, it's annoying and stupid.

@M.A.R. It has always been like that.

But the world is generally more peaceful than in any other period, except in some places.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer: "How...?" vs. "What ... like?" by 9999 on english.stackexchange.com

user227867

00:47

@Cerberus Woof! How is Latin SE?

tchrist

@Cerberus Why does that seem of so little comfort?

Cerberus

02:44

@tchrist It does comfort me.

And it should you.

Incidentally, it seems Trump is considering abiding by the Parisian climatic treaty after all.

Contrary to repeated statements during his campaign.

tchrist

@Cerberus So far, it looks like most of what he said in the campaign was pure bullshit he was spouting merely to rouse the rabid haters but which he'd zero intention of carrying through on. That's how he is though.

Then again, I don't think he expected to win. At all.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, and that is good, isn't it? At least better than if he had kept his promises.

@tchrist I think at some point any candidate secretly hopes he might win.

And Trump was stupid enough to expect it when few others did.

But he may not have expected it at other times.

tchrist

He had zero transition plans ready on Election Day. The last failed candidate, Mitt Romney, already had hundreds and hundreds of typed pages of transition plans.

Cerberus

03:26

I think he has had very few serious plans for anything in his life.

Færd

05:08

@M.A.R. Smartness alone doesn't prevent you from getting your hands dirty. Other dimensions are needed (too).

user227867

@Cerberus And some people plan and plan but nothing comes true, because all their plans keep failing, pathetic people like me.

user227867

Blogger.com has a new user interface when you are logged in, starting like today.

user227867

And youtube.com has still not rolled out the new interface after so many months. I really like it.

M.A.R.

06:27

@Færd Well yeah, but I just meant that governors, generally and with a few exceptions, are not the brightest people.

SmokeDetector

09:51

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: Meaning of "post" in the Word of the Year 2016 "post-truth" politics by Albert P'Rayan on english.stackexchange.com

Matt E. Эллен

@SmokeDetector Rayan Al...

terdon

10:12

???

Matt E. Эллен

the email address at the end of the post took a moment for me to parse

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Oh man. And that may well be for real, too.

Yep, actually looks legit!

newindianexpress.com/education/edex/2016/jun/06/…

Ouch.

Matt E. Эллен

Nice :D

terdon

10:28

Heh, reminds me of this:

Jul 13 at 12:20, by terdon

Jun 3 '14 at 0:21, by terdon

She went to a one man show all about how the actor's life had been so hard because his last name was Dick. Among other things, he said, no woman would marry me, because nobody would want to be Mrs Dick. At which point he turnd to my sister and asked her if she would consider it and she got to reply that "certainly not, for then I would be called Aliki Dick."

Matt E. Эллен

lol

I remember

terdon

Dammit! I just edited that typo. Y U NO update?

Jun 3 '14 at 0:21, by terdon

She went to a one man show all about how the actor's life had been so hard because his last name was Dick. Among other things, he said, no woman would marry me, because nobody would want to be Mrs Dick. At which point he turned to my sister and asked her if she would consider it and she got to reply that "certainly not, for then I would be called Aliki Dick."

Huh. So the quoted quote is no longer linked to the quote.

SmokeDetector

11:00

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: Can "and" mean "in order to"? by ayush on english.stackexchange.com

M.A.R.

11:32

meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/319014/revisions

LOL revision two

Færd

14:13

@M.A.R. Funny!

You read the revisions too, huh? I'm surprised by how much time you have to spare in the pre-university grade.

Not criticizing, though.

M.A.R.

@Færd I assure you I just get enough studying done

Færd

Some people study too much at that year, like 15 hours a day. Me, I did around 3-5 on average.

I don't remember exactly; maybe a bit more toward the end.

@M.A.R. Good, good.

M.A.R.

@Færd Well that's a stupid thing to do. If you really put things into your brain for 15 hours, your brain would fail to keep them after that.

And if you're not really putting much into your brain in a whole 15 hours, you're wasting even more time than someone who studies 5 hours a day

Færd

@M.A.R. I've met some extraordinary brains; believe me. They did spend that much time.

M.A.R.

I study about 6-8 hours a day depending on the day, but I learn too much in that time alright.

Færd

14:20

I think you'll be fine then, if you organize it efficiently.

M.A.R.

@Færd Yes, there are geniuses like those, but that account for less than one percent of people who do the 15-hour reading, trust me.

Færd

@M.A.R. Almost all of those whom I know did very well. Albeit there are those who waist their time too much studying.

You don't get the one/two-figure ranks for free.

Not that it matters; I'm just saying.

M.A.R.

@Færd I'm not looking for one, TBH.

I despise this bullshit so much that I just want to win a place in Tabriz's university then be done with it

Færd

You don't have to get your bachelor's at one of the top universities to be a successful scholar in the future.

M.A.R.

Tabriz is some kinda a top university, like number 5 or something. I just don't want to let go of home.

Færd

14:26

It would help though, the environment, equipment, people you meet, etc.

M.A.R.

And once I'm done with Konkur, I'm gonna spend even more time reading, this time more freely.

Færd

@M.A.R. I would think that you're right.

M.A.R.

@Færd I know

Færd

So I went to the Department of Education's center in our district to ask how much they pay teachers. I didn't know, because I hadn't been employed by them; I worked freelance, like many other teachers in Tehran.

Turns out they salary works out to about 1000 Tomans (~3 US dollars) an hour. And you'll have to work ~100 hours a month.

I couldn't help laughing all the way back home.

M.A.R.

@Færd :o

Færd

14:38

Yup.

Poor teachers. Poor students who don't get good teachers.

M.A.R.

@Færd Wait, isn't 1000 tomans 30 cents rather than 3 dollars?

Færd

Sorry. 10000 Tomans.

M.A.R.

Oh well, that's less drastic than 30 cents

But these days money is in freelancing

Oh, I transliterated from Persian.

Færd

?

M.A.R.

So @Færd you teach Konkur students, or younger students?

@Færd ''money is in [job]'' is Persian, not English

Færd

14:42

Younger. I would never teach Konkur. Never ever its physics.

M.A.R.

You's awesome

Færd

Hah!

M.A.R.

But well, Physics in Konkur is a much better state than Chem or Biology.

Færd

Is it?

To be honest, I don't like teaching high school physics at all.

M.A.R.

Mhm. I can authoritatively say that since I'm neck deep in this #@$#

Especially biology has turned into a dark abyss

They trap you in some way, take all your money, and teach you nothing, and still manage to be the best teachers.

''best'' teachers

Færd

14:46

Sucks.

M.A.R.

And then those ''best'' teachers create an atmosphere wherein some sheep students think of all other biology teachers as inferior.

Færd

Ax holes.

M.A.R.

And then those other biology teachers retaliate by wasting a considerable portion of each session explaining why those ''best'' teachers are neither magicians nor teachers.

A very toxic atmosphere that not many of the students survive.

Really, getting a 70, 80 or 90 percent in biology in Konkur isn't at all hard for some 10000 people around the country.

But people don't know how to swim in this toxic river, and either choose to ignore everything and not study or just not study enough.

Færd

If an average students relies on averagely good books, I guess they could do without an average "best" teacher of biology, no?

M.A.R.

@Færd So you teach youngsters in the secondary school?

Færd

14:50

In high school. Used to.

M.A.R.

@Færd TBH, no. Studying biology has a special method and what a good book -- which is rare -- does is teach you how to adopt that method.

Færd

But teaching physics was a pain for me, because it meant having to keep after students and make them study by all means possible.

M.A.R.

If you don't adopt it, you will never ever get more than 30 percent even if you memorized the three books

Færd

That was what the schools wanted from me.

@M.A.R. I see.

So there are books to teach you the method, no?

M.A.R.

You see, we don't usually read things very carefully, because that's just not needed! I don't need to make 5 sentences out of your one sentence.

But studying biology is like that.

Full of deducing things from conversational and conventional implicature attached to every statement.

And no writer is that good to write something with consistent implicatures. EVER

Færd

14:54

At second grade I picked biology as my major. I'm glad I changed my mind a week later.

That wasn't for me.

M.A.R.

@Færd I'm not sure just studying the book teaches you the methods. You have to do dig yourself. What a good book does is give you some scientifically wrong or right multiple choice questions which are extremely hard to answer unless you split the book's every hair.

So you would realize something is wrong, and try doing something to improve it.

I succeeded in finding out what was wrong, but there's no guarantee that the book will help you.

Færd

So where does a good Konkur biology teacher comes in?

M.A.R.

Indeed, I'm in a gifted school but I only know four people other than me among the ninety who know how to study biology.

Færd

Gifted, huh?

You're not among the so-called Exceptional Talents, are you?

M.A.R.

@Færd I'm not really sure. The teacher can tell you the general stuff everyone knows with probably one or two extra pointers.

I have never attended a biology Konkur class.

@Færd I am

Færd

14:57

@M.A.R. I guessed so. :)

M.A.R.

So Exceptional Talents is what they call ''estedad-ha-ye-derakhshan''?

Who knew

@Færd Oh, I should be a little bit more mysterious from now on

Færd

@M.A.R. Not so easy.

M.A.R.

Back to Konkur Rant™, there's also the prevalence of this Ghalam chi that stops a lot of talents from showing themselves

Færd

Talents among the students?

M.A.R.

Yep.

It's like a pool, if Konkur is the sea.

To swim in the sea, it's preferable to give the pool a try.

Færd

15:01

Ghalamchi does whatever the Konkur system requires.

M.A.R.

But then, some people just stick to the pool and miss the sea.

Some people see they can't swim, and think they can never swim.

Færd

I do remember though that there were more creative books, for Chemistry for example.

M.A.R.

Some people see they swim well, so they get hot-headed and drown in the sea.

etc etc.

So while trying out the pool is good, it destroys a lot of swimming-in-the-sea talents.

People that would've done better otherwise.

@Færd Chem books are a bit creative, but it's going the same path as biology.

And what annoys me the most is the fact that there's NO FRIGGING REAL CHEMISTRY in high school.

For God's sake, all the organic chemistry we learn is naming compounds according to IUPAC recommendations 1993.

Færd

I could say the same for physics. Although I guess I never read high school physics books.

M.A.R.

It's 2016, people. 2-propanol does NOT exist anymore.

@Færd High school physics is IMO 80 percent plugging the numbers in the formula, 5 percent knowing formulas, 5 percent creativity, and 10 percent knowing what those formulas are for.

Færd

15:05

@M.A.R. I hate that stuff.

M.A.R.

@Færd You should, because you were taught to label some things you would never use the label for.

It's stupid.

It's like going to a pet shop, naming all the cats, and end up buying none.

Færd

@M.A.R. I relied on what I'd learned in my side-studies, and practiced with the tests.

Maybe opened the books sometimes too.

M.A.R.

The only real problem about physics, math and chem in Konkur for me is timing.

The only real problem about Persian LitCrit is that I don't study it enough. I don't need to, I will a couple of months later.

And the only possible problem I would have about English questions is how the opinion of the examiner decides the answer in some of the reading comprehension questions.

Færd

@M.A.R. Mayeb pick it up in your free time and scan it. It will help with your thorough reading later.

M.A.R.

And that has actually improved since 2012 Konkur

@Færd I do that. More even. It's not that I've thrown the book somewhere in the bookshelf and not touch it.

Færd

15:09

@M.A.R. That goes for other English exams too.

M.A.R.

It's that to exactly know ''how many words are defined incorrectly in the parenthesis'', I need to read more.

@Færd Not in the previous three or four Konkurs though, fortunately.

But you never know what lessons' questions will be messed up this year.

Færd

@M.A.R. Eh? Good!

M.A.R.

It was biology in the previous one.

Imagine being in the middle of the exam. THE exam that will most probably decide your fate. And the first biology question is wrong!

Færd

@M.A.R. Hey, don't use decide so lavishly.

M.A.R.

You look at the options, and all of them seem to fit.

@Færd Well it's true, it does.

Færd

15:13

Heck, it's not. It is consequential, but not as much as y'all think.

M.A.R.

I dunno if you know or not but after 1395's Konkur's 1st position was from Sharif, loads of university students are quitting their major to take Konkur again.

I'm starting to REALLY hate that guy now.

Færd

@M.A.R. What happened there? I didn't understand.

And I haven't heard.

M.A.R.

@Færd University students are coming back to take Konkur again, because they wanna be doctors not whoever they decided to be.

They essentially dump 1/2/3/4 years of their life into trash, and waste ours too.

Færd

Oh, engineers-to-be repent as doctors-to-be, huh?

Haha!

M.A.R.

It's because of that Ahmadi guy that retook Konkur after spending four years in Sharif university became Exp.Sci major's number one.

@Færd It's less haha for me considering I have a new set of rivals that are much better at math than me. Math was always my forte compared to other students, and I basically can't even try to reach these guys in math

And they have a whole year to study biology and take the top positions. Who's to stop them?

There's no law forbidding this.

Færd

15:19

How many are they?

M.A.R.

Around 3000 at least

All over the country

Færd

@M.A.R. Why should there be? They're paying a huge expense for that.

@M.A.R. Wow!

M.A.R.

@Færd The real problem here is that being a doctor has become the new entity to worship.

Færd

I would've thought it has lost it's glory.

M.A.R.

Even my dad -- a physician -- shivers at the thought of me trying to become a physician like him. I MUST BE A DOCTOR because money

Færd

15:21

What with all the jobless doctors and all.

@M.A.R. I'm not saying don't listen to your dad, or don't pay attention to money, but don't do something that you're sure you'll regret.

M.A.R.

@Færd Not only it hasn't, but with all the stupid students and opportunist charlatans it has aggravated

@Færd Well, they don't look at the jobless doctors, but the single popular doctor that makes x million tomans a month

Færd

So how do you recommend Tabriz for living? Polluted city? Hospitable people?

M.A.R.

Hospitable? I guess we're not jerks, but we don't get many visitors either.

Call me biased but IMO Tabriz is the best large city in Iran to live in.

Færd

Never mind. If I were to move to another megalopolis I might stay in Tehran as well.

M.A.R.

It's not as polluted as Tehran at all, and compared to other cities, it has less, much less, beggars and better food as well

@Færd Well we're a village compared to Tehran

Færd

15:29

I have been to Tabriz, many years ago.

M.A.R.

And due to Aras, there are a lot of cool cars moving around

@Færd And we were jerks? :(

Færd

Are there nice towns around where you can stay and come to the city for work?

@M.A.R. I didn't get to meet many of you.

M.A.R.

We have more green than Mashhad, less sellers trying to coax you into buying something unlike Esfahan, and a couple of nice parks to visit.

Færd

It was a school trip kind of thing.

M.A.R.

@Færd Any place other than the city center is a good place to live in. Very little noise, a couple of friendly neighbors, everybody's getting along.

Valiasr and Yaghchian are nice places to live in.

Færd

15:32

Sounds nice. Maybe I should visit again and reconsider.

M.A.R.

Valiasr is a bit expensive, but not at all compared to average Tehran vicinity.

Færd

Do you have freelance teachers? Or they have to be employed like in other small(er) cities?

M.A.R.

Yaghchian is both connected to Valiasr and to El Goli, it's on the side of the city, and a lot of taxis are around to go to city center and bazaar.

Færd

I mean freelance teachers working at schools.

M.A.R.

@Færd My Konkur math teacher is freelance-ish, and he's never taught somewhere outside the city IIRC.

Or in any school

Færd

15:35

Kool.

M.A.R.

It's not that easy to ask these things from your teacher, you know what I'm saying

Færd

Why not.

Depends on the teacher.

The only part of some of our teachers we didn't touch was the crotch.

As was the only part where I wasn't touched by some of my students.

@M.A.R. How many Sampad high schools do you have? Because if it's too many (as it is in Tehran now) it's probably spoiled and not as fun to work at.

Good talk we had. Take care.

M.A.R.

@Færd There are 5 for boys and prolly 5 for girls, but only 4 out of 10 are good schools, and only 1 school is overflowing with geniuses.

Districts 1, 3, 4 and 1 (girls) have the best Sampad schools, and district 4's school, Madani, is one of the top schools in Iran where single digit Konkur guys rise from.

I study in 1.

user227867

@Tonepoet My Oxford Bible and Oxford Quran have arrived, and I have done the usual quality check!

M.A.R.

@Færd It's indeed fun to work in our class for all teachers, and in Madani. But to get in Madani you need loads of experience. You know, the top teachers in Tabriz teach in Madani.

user227867

15:47

@M.A.R. and @Færd are very talkative today.

M.A.R.

Yup, ranting about stuff

Mitch

@Færd Are there a lot of jobless doctors there?

user227867

Here comes @Mitch. I am waiting for your Christmas present!

M.A.R.

@Mitch Not that many, but most of them don't earn as much as they hoped

user227867

Hello @TanyaSolovianchyk welcome to this chat!

Mitch

15:49

@M.A.R. What about Shiraz?

user227867

Now I need to read 6000 pages of suttas, 2500 pages of bible and 500 pages of quran...

user227867

That is a total of 9000 pages of religion, phew!

Mitch

@JasperLoy runs quickly to store

M.A.R.

@Mitch I've never been to Shiraz and I can't compare the two cities.

Mitch

I'm sure the mail is just slow

M.A.R.

15:50

But Shiraz has more green than Tabriz.

Still, Tabriz has the best quality and most delicious food after Tehran.

Mitch

@M.A.R. I think universally it is the one profession that covers 1) good pay, and 2) not evil

M.A.R.

But Tehran is too busy feeding you cancer

user227867

@TanyaSolovianchyk To notify someone in this chat and on the main site, you use the @ symbol as you can see here.

Mitch

@JasperLoy You haven't ordered your Oxford Bhagavad Gita?

user227867

@Mitch Not yet. Running out of cash...

M.A.R.

15:51

@Mitch The problem is that it has become ''the profession'' here. People don't pursue what they like.

Mitch

aha! present idea for JLo

M.A.R.

Only one job.

user227867

I will have an Oxford turkey this Christmas.

Mitch

@M.A.R. Rasht? I'm just coming up with random big towns.

M.A.R.

All other jobs are looked down upon, even ones related to doctors, like nursing and physician-ing-ness

@Mitch Rasht is TOO humid

user227867

15:53

My millionaire friend has treated me to four dinners this month already.

M.A.R.

The air literally strangles you

I would rather go to Africa than to Rasht

Mitch

@M.A.R. oh...that's the other universal for doctors, going into it for the money and not caring about people that much.

user227867

I think it is better to live in Antarctica than in Asia or Africa.

Mitch

which in the US at least I think is one major cause of burnout.

M.A.R.

@Mitch No, that's not what I meant. I meant that university students don't want to become engineers or physicians or chemists anymore. Everyone just wants to be a doctor.

Mitch

15:54

(the other is caring too much and being beaten down with all the non-caring part of being a physician, like dealing with insurance and computers)

user227867

I find most doctors quite stupid.

M.A.R.

@JasperLoy Hey it's not that bad

Konkur BS aside, this is a calm little place to live in.

user227867

@M.A.R. Good for you.

M.A.R.

And people here don't like Trump, so that's a sign

OK, gotta go. Cya all

Mitch

@M.A.R. OK. what about the whole other end, like Bandar somethety something... whatever is on the Persian gulf.

user227867

15:55

I hope my next life is better than this one, but I will make the best out of the shit that remains of this life.

M.A.R.

@Mitch That's too hot AND humid. Worse than hell

user227867

@M.A.R. You clearly have no idea of how hot hell is...

Mitch

@M.A.R. Humid tropical air smothers you. Smog actually puts its hands around your neck.

user227867

@Mitch Yesterday I spent 2 hours trying to install Office 2016, and finally succeeded after 3 attempts

M.A.R.

@JasperLoy A humid hell is worse than an inexplicably hot hell.

user227867

15:58

@M.A.R. There are also cold hells, not just hot ones...

Færd

There are various climates along the Caspian and the Gulf. I wouldn't say all their cities are hard to live in.

Mitch

@M.A.R. Oh. Right. Well, more room for engineering types then I guess. (for which also there is a likely prospect of good income)

user227867

I think I will stick to Firefox for now because it gives me the fonts I want out of the box.

M.A.R.

@Mitch Yeah I know, but they keep trying to be frigging doctors no matter what.

Mitch

@JasperLoy I wouldn't wish that hell on my worst enemy. Well, maybe my worst enemy. BUt the threshold is pretty high.

M.A.R.

15:59

Indeed engineers should be in a better condition on average but people still wanna be doctors.

user227867

Also, it is the only major browser that does not come with Flash preinstalled.

M.A.R.

Rasht humidity is now 97 percent, Google says

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…