English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:02

yodel-odelay-hee-hoo

Tonepoet

Yodel-ay-hee-hoo! Switzerland August 23-29 2014

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cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

So I misspelled it?

Hmm.

Tonepoet

I'm not sure if yodeling has a fixed spelling or not.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Phew!

user227867

04:13

@Tonepoet So you need to check the dictionary to find out =P

Tonepoet

@WillHunting My doubtfulness stems from the variety of ways to yodel, as seen in that video. XP

user227867

@Tonepoet Not even clicking on it =P unless it's Jacob yodelling

Tonepoet

Then you'll just have to take my word for it.

user227867

I take your word and words as AUTHORITATIVE

YOU

04:48

what is Paper Service in catering and dining?

user227867

08:09

When I saw 'YOU' talking, I thought it was me talking. But it turns out that 'YOU' wasn't me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:04

@WillHunting It was fun trying to explain that to my daughter when she was learning to talk. We'd point at a picture of her and say "Who's that?" and she'd say "You!"

J doh

14:02

Is there a specific category of noun for those usually applicable to humans: said, reported, claimed, thought, argued, bought?

Thanks

verb, not noun, of course!

terdon

@Jdoh There aren't many verbs that aren't applicable to humans. Actually, I'm not sure there are any at all since even those that sound odd might be used for a specific effect.

J doh

14:19

@terdon - I meant usually applicable to humans, not other things. I know it's not exact (most could be used after the New York Times, for example) but the list of verbs in my post would rarely be 'done' by things other than people.

terdon

@Jdoh Like?

Talk?

J doh

'said'

terdon

@Jdoh The weather report said we would have sunshine tomorrow

J doh

Although I realise what you meant. Almost all (if not all) verbs are applicable to to humans.

terdon

Come into my lair said the spider to the fly

J doh

14:21

Yep, or the New York Times...

lair :)

terdon

Argh!

Wow.

You never saw that :)

J doh

I was just writing a fairly novice piece about how to find names in text. 'rules' I have are: following a title, capitalised, capitalised word (x2) followed by a comma and an integer (eg. John Doe, 27) and the one I can't explain properly, followed by verbs which are usually applied to humans such as said, reported, claimed, thought, argued, bought.

I just assumed that those verbs would have a category of their own

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Most of those verbs are not just applied to singular humans, to but anything that is personified, like a team, a group, a business, etc.

Simliarly, anything that is capable of speech or independent action, like an AI, Narnia's talking animals, etc.

J doh

true @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇

Thanks both of you

I'm actually arguing showing the issues for using 'rules' to find a person's name in a text, saying that those verbs could follow something else, that capitalisation could give you the name Chicago etc

terdon

You could coin something and call the verbs you're thinking of "human-centric" or some clunky thing like that, but I doubt there'll be an established word for it since I don't think there is such a thing.

J doh

14:30

Thanks both of you. I'll stick with my clunky explanation rather than coining something clunky!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jdoh well, when you need to categorize things you often have to invent or repurpose labels

J doh

true

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

like, if you establish that some verbs have a strongly likelihood of immediately following (or being connected to) proper names, you could call these... i dunno. HLPN verbs.

Matt E. Эллен

it's possible someone at Linguistics knows a word for it. although I would wager there isn't one.

Mitch

14:57

@Jdoh There might very well be a category for them, but probably not a grammatical category unlike say it might in other languages)

@YOU I think it means utensils (forks/knives/spoons), table cloths, and maybe even plates that are all disposable (single use). This is in contrast to china plates, linen table cloths and metal cutlery that are intended to be reused and need to be washed.

4

A: Word for disposable cutlery etc preferably without using "disposable"

"Paper service" seems like it might have the right meaning, so I thought I'd mention it. I'm not sure it's the best choice–actually, I learned of this word recently in chat when someone else asked what it meant, and I had to do some Googling to find out, so it might not be widely understood. How...

Færd

I prefer visually impaired to vision-impaired or sight-impaired. I wish I could find a nice alternative for hearing-impaired too.

Mitch

I prefer glasses

aurally impaired sounds funny

Færd

Yeah. And I don't think audibly impaired would be readily understood, would it?

Mitch

understood just as well as aurally impaired which is readily understood

Færd

@Mitch To what? Hearing aids?

Mitch

15:09

wait... audibly means you can hear things, so that sounds weird too but in a semantic way.

@Færd haha, no, I prefer it to being visually impaired.

Also, I'm slightly miffed that you didn't appreciate the pun that follows.

Færd

They don't cure your impairedness.

@Mitch Maybe I'm slow.

Mitch

They ameliorate the loss of function

Færd

What pun?

Matt E. Эллен

"audibly impaired" would imply the imparedness (?) was audible, as in "audibly shocked"

Mitch

"aurally impaired" and "sounds funny" because if you're aurally impaired everything sounds funny but I'm saying that the term aurally impaired itself sounds funny.

@MattE.Эллен Like maybe people can hear your earlobes snap shut

Færd

15:14

@MattE.Эллен Or maybe being impaired in the sense of not being able to be heard.

Anyway, it doesn't work I guess.

@Mitch Aha!

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch they can hear your ancestry and it sounds impish

(audibly imp heired)

Færd

LOL

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен :D

that took me a few beats

about the neck and head

Færd

I don't remember having used LOL ever.

Mitch

So is a brick bat a bat made out of brick? I would think it would break on first use.

Also heavy

Matt E. Эллен

15:18

yeah, it doesn't sound like a useful tool

Mitch

or sports implement

Matt E. Эллен

that too

when all you have is a brick bat, every problem looks unsolvable

Mitch

brickbat (n.) mid-16c., piece of brick (half or less) used as a missile, from brick (n.) + bat (n.1). Figurative use, of comments, insults, etc., is from 1640s.

that was underwhelming. a piece of brick.

Matt E. Эллен

oh well.

Mitch

why not just say 'piece of brick'?

or 'paving stone'? (if that is what you have at hand)

Matt E. Эллен

15:20

it the bat part implying that it can fly?

Mitch

I'm going to have to write a letter about this.

Matt E. Эллен

yes. write to your MP or localised alternative

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен following links, it seems to be 'no'. But then most of this stuff is made up anyway.

Matt E. Эллен

hmmm

Færd

@Mitch bat: ... Also "a lump, piece" (mid-14c.), as in brickbat.

Mitch

15:37

@Færd Oh. I didn't see that. But anyway, that still smells of a wiktionary-like edit after the fact to doctor the evidence. I call shenanigans.

Færd

Yeah, it doesn't look like a coincidence that the only example is brickbat itself.

Justyna Nogala

16:02

Yo

Can I say "I emptied the whole plate"?

meaning I ate up all the food on the plate?

Matt E. Эллен

you can... it sounds odd but people would understand. finished is the usual word

Mitch

@JustynaNogala like what Matt said. Or what I would say naturally "I cleaned my plate".

Justyna Nogala

nice ;)

Mitch

For drinks "I emptied the glass" is right.

Justyna Nogala

Can you clean your plate with a slice of bread?

Mitch

16:16

I do it, but others think it is impolite

"I cleaned my plate" is not exactly literal, as it would be if you were using bread.

Justyna Nogala

I don't care whether it's impolite or not. I just want to make sure how to use certain words :D

Mitch

But they sound mostly identical whether you're doing it with bread or just by finishing everything.

@JustynaNogala I guessed so. We intentionally misunderstand everything here just for fun.

Justyna Nogala

I've had a chance to notice that.

Færd

> dearly:

> 1 very much.
> 2 at great cost.

The first one is a bad definition I guess.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

He loves her dearly

Færd

16:25

> She holds him dearly to her chest. He hugs back just as hard...

(COCA)

It just means affectionately or passionately or something. Why would you say it means very much?

Can you hate someone dearly?

Mitch

@Færd That is a bit strange

'dear' is supposed to be a synonym for 'expensive' but to me that is a rare usage.

Færd

Haven't anything cost you dearly before?

Mitch

It's only ever 'Dear So-and-so..'

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I heard it a lot more in my youth than I do today

Mitch

@Færd No. It has only ever been for me or in my hearing 'That cost a lot'

Færd

16:29

Hmm.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен It sounds very Alice in Wonderland (19th c posh British writing of young children)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Færd In Canada that usage isn't much used.

@Færd What definition of dearly, as in "He lovers her dearly", would you suggest that disallows "He hates her dearly"?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch so-and-sos are very expensive.

Mitch

Have you any?

Yes sir yes sir three bags

Færd

I'm thinking probing dictionaries will only turn me into a weirdo. Far from how people speak.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I searched for verb collocates of dearly, and they're all either about costs and expenses or gentle emotions.

Mitch

16:36

not synonyms of just 'very'?

I dearly want to attend the debutante ball

Færd

I skimmed the list. And it's not a complete list of course.

@Mitch Yeah, there are results like that.

> It would help him be a better team player, which he dearly wanted to be.

Mitch

The cylinder manifold dearly requires a lubricant of rating 10W50 or better to withstand the stresses of winter operating conditions

Færd

Thank you dearly.

That's plain awkward.

Or is it?

Mitch

Hmm.. don't know. Go ask Alice.

MetaEd

@Mitch I think she'll know.

Mitch

16:40

What did the dormouse say?

MetaEd

@Mitch Feed you hay.

Færd

I dearly have to go.

Thank y'all dearly.

Mitch

Bless your heart!

MetaEd

17:01

@Mitch Doesn't that mean basically pour blood over your heart?

Tonepoet

18:29

@Mitch "Twinkle, twinkle little bat! How I wonder where you're at!"

MetaEd

@Tonepoet Tea?

Tonepoet

Yes please, with fourty lumps of sugar, but not a single grain more. I wouldn't want it to be too sweet now!

MetaEd

Pete Puma How Many Lumps do you Want? Full Clip HD

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Færd

18:56

What would you call the sound made by new shoes with leather soles on smooth, polished tiles? Crunch?

MetaEd

19:12

@Færd Creak?

Færd

A little sharper and higher!

But yeah, it's essentially a creak.

Another example would be the noise of chewing on stretchy plastic.

I guess 'crunch' would do.

Mitch

@Færd squeaky shoes

whether new leather shoes by themselves, or gym shoes on a gym floor (like at a basketball game)

@MetaEd a coronary heart attack is a chest pleonasm

MetaEd

19:31

@Mitch Possibly a redundant pleonasm.

Mitch

Maybe possibly

@Færd shoes walking across gravel makes a crunching sound. but across smooth tiles, they squeak

MetaEd

@Mitch Rubber soled shoes squeak on tile. Leather soles, I don't think they make a sound against the tile but the seams in the shoes can creak.

Mitch

what is the sound of leather when you try to put on a new leather jacket?

I'm not sure. It's a distinctive sound though, similar to new shoes

Færd

Thanks.

I used to think of squeak as a continuous high noise. Like this or this (only the high ones).

But creaking and crunching and the sound of rubber/leather rubbing on a smooth floor are more like a dense sequence of separate noises.

MetaEd

19:47

@Færd Mice squeak.

Færd

Yeah, exactly.

Mitch

20:11

@Færd squeaking is more canonically intermittent, short or bursty. a squeaking timer belt on a car is continuous squeaking.

Færd

Oh, I didn't know that.

Mitch

@Færd creaking and crunching are also short or bursty. an old ship creaks in high winds. an un-oiled door creaks as it opens.

dry crumbly things crunch. or bones.

or hard crackers when you chew them.

Færd

Thanks.

Mitch

squeaking and creaking (though slightly different) are high pitched and tonal.

crunching has no tone, just a noise.

we could do groaning and slurping and snorting next

Færd

There are too many sound words in English.

@Mitch I guess squeaking can be tonal or not. For leather under pressure it can be low without a distinguishable tone, but for rubbing your finger against a window pane it can have an audible dominant frequency.

Mitch

20:21

@Færd Oh. sure, but those sound pretty close, the shoe squeak just not sounding as long as the finger on a window pane sound. Sure, the shoe leather squeak doesn't have as pure a tone as rubbing your finger against a window, but there's still a high pitch there.

Færd

rubs finger on monitor

Mitch

runs across gym in new tennis shoes

Færd

You energetic young 'uns.

MetaEd

20:37

@Mitch Get on my lawn.

user227867

22:52

Why is it that my messages never get starred?

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