English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

16:13

@Cerberus The table shows that 7 > XP > Vista if we take green to be +1 and red to be -1.

user19161

@Cerberus Wait for 8. End of 2012.

Cerberus

@WillHunting In any case, 7 would not be a clear improvement.

@WillHunting Ugh I don't think I will ever touch 8; from what I hear it will try to be as closed and user-constricting as Apple.

user19161

@Cerberus OK I admire your insistence. I am insistent on various life decisions too.

Cerberus

I don't understand why you're such a 7 fan anyway if you're not using it yourself!

user19161

@Cerberus What is user-constructing?

Cerberus

16:18

Oops constricting.

user19161

@Cerberus I thought your XP is breaking down and you don't switch to Ubuntu.

user19161

@Cerberus How do they constrict the user?

Cerberus

No, no, I have already explained that: my previous installation of XP was breaking down, so I reinstalled it. And, now that I use clones, I will never ever have that problem again.

user19161

Windows 8 will come with built-in PDF viewer and application store just like Mac.

user19161

@Cerberus Very good, I am very happy for you!

Cerberus

16:20

@WillHunting They don't allow you to do stuff. They even blocked Flash(!) on Ipads because it is "better for the user". They like taking away choice from the user.

@WillHunting Gee, thanks!!

I'm very happy for your Ubuntu as well.

I encourage it.

Gigili

If you keep arguing with him, he'll make you switch to XP.

Cerberus

Naaaah.

user19161

@Cerberus I hope flash can be replaced by other technologies like using html on youtube.

Cerberus

I wish everybody used Linux.

Then all good software would be written for Linux, and I would switch too.

@WillHunting I hope so too. Html5 already works on YT, but it is less stable in my experience.

I have tried it.

Gigili

@Cerberus That is when the world ends.

Cerberus

16:21

Flash is dying; but its struggle will take a while.

user19161

@Cerberus By the way it's actually GNU/Linux, there is GNU/Hurd and GNU/kfreeBSD too with different kernels, but Linux is the most developed kernel.

Cerberus

@Gigili Not at all! I like Linux, in the abstract.

user19161

@Cerberus its

user19161

@Gigili It might end this year since it is 2012.

Cerberus

Yikes!

user19161

16:22

@Cerberus And the open source Gnash just does not work most of the time!

Cerberus

Whoever invented not using the apostrophe with the genitive its should be flogged.

Gigili

Don't put him under pressure, he'll lose the ability to type.

user19161

3 more days to change username.

Cerberus

@Gigili I've never possessed it.

Gigili

=)

user19161

16:27

Yay Ubuntu at least updates Firefox automatically to the latest stable version on all supported releases. I am now on FF10.

user19161

They only recently implemented this.

user19161

And switching from Unity 3d to 2d does stabilise things and supposedly uses less ram.

Gigili

Ubuntu rocks.

Cerberus

16:41

I'm sure it does.

What do you like about it so much?

user19161

@Cerberus Firstly it's FOC!

Gigili

Fear Of Cock?

user19161

@Gigili Naughty!

user19161

Secondly if you have any problems you can ask on askubuntu.com.

user19161

It's the only distro with its own SE site.

Gigili

16:51

Flamingo Or Corbel?

Anonymous

Hello

user19161

@Anonymous Hi.

Gigili

Secondly sucks, because there's superuser.com for Windows users.

Anonymous

Are there any English teacher here? :)

user19161

Nope, but we may be able to help you.

Cerberus

16:54

Hi!

@WillHunting Care to elaborate?

user19161

@Cerberus Elaborate? FOC=free of charge. QED.

user19161

Thirdly you don't really need to install an antivirus on it even though you can.

Cerberus

Ah, yes.

I don't need to now.

user19161

Fourthly you can do many things quickly on the command line.

Anonymous

I learned English language but the price is cheap. It cost me only $7 - 9 per hour and it is one-to-one class. They teach me by phonics, news reading and general conversational. I found that some teacher charge $15 - 25. I am not sure is more expensive will be better or not.

Cerberus

16:56

I only use the command line when I really have to.

Anonymous

Kind of silly question here, lol.

Gigili

You can fix every issue you face by your own.

Cerberus

@Anonymous Well, how are we to judge these classes?

user19161

@Anonymous What I can tell you from my own observations about private tutors is that the quality is not proportional to the price.

Cerberus

Perhaps if you can record a video of your class I can tell you whether it is any good.

user19161

16:58

Don't judge a book by its cover.

user19161

Don't judge a tutor by his rates.

user19161

Don't judge Will Hunting either as you know nothing about him.

Gigili

Don't judge me by my appearance.

user19161

@Cerberus Yes that is a good idea!

Anonymous

I have voice record of the class :)

user19161

16:59

In this world many people who do the judging are not fit to be judges.

user19161

Those who are fit to judge often do not judge.

user19161

That is why this world is in a mess.

Gigili

Beurteile mich nicht nach meinem Auto.

user19161

@Anonymous That is better than nothing but of course a video would be best. Are you going to upload it on youtube?

Anonymous

Yes, I will.

user19161

17:03

@Gigili I only see two fingers!

Anonymous

I can't upload it to youtube, it not allow me to upload an mp3 file. I will upload it to 4shared.com instead.

My spoken English is very bad.

user19161

@Anonymous What is your native language?

Anonymous

My native language is Thai

user19161

@Anonymous I only know kap kun ka for thanks.

user19161

And Thai seems to end almost every sentence with a ka sound.

Gigili

17:06

Are your classes virtual or real @Anonymous?

Anonymous

If you are woman so you can end your sentence with ka, but if you are man you should end your sentence with kub.

@Gigili it's online class, I learned on Skype.

Gigili

Owow, I didn't know people would pay for online tutoring.

Anonymous

It need 14 minutes to upload the file.

Lots of people learn with online English tutoring.

For me it's more convenience because I can learn in the morning before I go to work.

user19161

@Anonymous You should use "convenient" if you are using the adjective, though the noun also works in that sentence.

Gigili

That makes sense.

Cerberus

17:11

@Gigili You should start an on-line tutoring school!

user19161

@Anonymous "it does not allow"

Gigili

@Cerberus Yes, I should have to must.

user19161

@Anonymous "teachers"

Cerberus

@WillHunting I don't think the noun works there.

user19161

@Cerberus Why not? You are just saying there is a greater amount of convenience. It is awkward of course.

Anonymous

17:12

My grammar is not good too. I am learning by self-study from grammar book. :)

user19161

@Anonymous And we can also correct you in this room.

Anonymous

In Thailand, people who can speak English usually get better paid or better job. :)

Gigili

Yes, in this room they satirize you so that you wouldn't dare to talk.

Anonymous

@WillHunting thank you, that also help me

Should I say "that is also help me"?

user19161

@Anonymous "that also helps me" since that is singular

Cerberus

17:16

@WillHunting I don't know, it just sounds off. Perhaps it is the combination of the fact that one would expect "more convenient" there, and that there should be another adjective before "convenience".

@Gigili Do they? Who do?

user19161

@Cerberus Exactly why I said it is awkward. But uncommon usage is not wrong usage.

Cerberus

There is a grey area.

user19161

@Cerberus As with most things in life.

Anonymous

"It is more convenient to learn English online since I can learn from anytime, anywhere" - I hope this sentence it correct and common usage.

user19161

I have given a number of answers here which represent awkward sounding but nonetheless grammatical constructions. Needless to say downvotes came in.

Cerberus

17:19

@Anonymous "From" is not right, and there should probably be a comma before "since". The rest is perfect!

user19161

@Cerberus I agree that "from" should be omitted, but the comma is optional.

user19161

There is a difference between a mandatory comma and an optional comma.

Cerberus

I would strongly prefer a comma.

user19161

AmE tends to use more commas than BrE.

user19161

@matt Boo!

Matt Эллен

17:21

Hi!

Cerberus

Because the whole "since" clause is like an adjunct to the main clause, not a complement.

Hi!

Matt Эллен

I would probably put in a comma

Cerberus

Yay!

Matt Эллен

but I'm often accused of using too many

user19161

And to me commas are distinct from natural pauses in speech.

Cerberus

17:22

Who would dare accuse you?

user19161

Commas are used in writing. Pauses are used in speech. QED.

Matt Эллен

Well, when I was at school, my English teacher would dare :D

Cerberus

Arg.

user19161

@Cerberus The great classicist from Hades!

Cerberus

I daren't.

Matt Эллен

17:24

and from is definitely wrong there

user19161

I use very few commas in my writing not because I omit the optional ones but because many of my sentences do not match with commas.

Matt Эллен

I use lots of commas because I often pause mid-sentence to think, so a comma just slips out!

user19161

And my vocab is only one fifth of Robusto's or Cerb's.

Matt Эллен

well, they both know about 100 languages, so it's not surprising

Cerberus

If you think it is, read moar!

Nonsense. I just make up words.

Matt Эллен

17:26

you almost made word into a mass noun

Cerberus

I use Latin without regard for whether it is an actual word in English.

@MattЭллен See?

user19161

There is beauty in simplicity though, so using the simplest words are good.

Cerberus

Agreed.

Though not always.

user19161

I also prefer girls without makeup.

Cerberus

Use a complicated word if it can express what you want to say better, or if it is more beautiful.

Matt Эллен

17:28

I agree

Robusto

============================================
RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
--------------------------------------------
Total:                 217.5ms +/- 4.3%
--------------------------------------------

Cerberus

But don't use it just because it is more complicated.

Robusto

On my Windows 7 laptop.

Matt Эллен

============================================
RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
--------------------------------------------
Total:                 243.7ms +/- 1.1%
--------------------------------------------

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh! What was my score again?

Robusto

17:28

Look it up.

Yours was higher.

Matt Эллен

I'm jealous mine is slower on my desktop than your laptop

Cerberus

2 hours ago, by Cerberus

> Total: 233.8ms +/- 0.7%

I presume lower is better?

Robusto

My 4-year-old Mac is around 240 using Chrome, 235 on FF, and 317 using Safari.

user19161

I noticed the starring and unstarring there. Someone is vacillating.

Robusto

@Cerberus When the units involve time, yes.

Matt Эллен

17:30

perhaps I should turn bitcoin off... facepalm

Cerberus

You never know.

In any case, not much difference between the three of us.

Now you try it, Jasper!

user19161

What do the numbers show again?

user19161

What test is this?

Cerberus

How fast your browser processes Javascript.

Matt Эллен

============================================
RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
--------------------------------------------
Total:                 231.0ms +/- 0.7%
--------------------------------------------

Cerberus

17:31

webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/driver.html

Robusto

@Cerberus Except mine is a stupid Dell laptop, bought by my company, and I have three IDEs open plus other software atm.

Cerberus

user19161

@Cerberus So I just click on the link and wait?

Cerberus

Notice that half of the icons aren't visible in my tray.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting you need to have scripts enabled for the page

Cerberus

17:33

@WillHunting Yes, if you see letters changing and stuff.

user19161

531.0ms +/- 1.6%

user19161

Is that good or bad?

Cerberus

Ah.

It means your browser processes Javascript about twice as slowly as ourses.

Matt Эллен

we're all about twice as fast

jinx

Cerberus

Haha.

user19161

17:34

So it means my hardware is inferior?

Cerberus

And/or software.

No idea.

user19161

I am on laptop battery.

Matt Эллен

there could be other reasons, but it seems most likely that you're running on a slower processor

user19161

I am just surprised by the huge difference.

Cerberus

Now I'm running it in Chrome.

Matt Эллен

17:35

I got a slower result in Chrome than FF10

Cerberus

Oh!

Robusto

Chrome seems slower.

Cerberus

Has FF finally overtaken Chrome in Javascript? That is good news.

user19161

@Robusto Mine is twice as slow as everyone else's.

Robusto

Safari is slowest, but I have a lot of windows open, so I don't know if that contributes to the slowness. Also running WMT Flash game.

Matt Эллен

17:36

the competition heats up!

Robusto

@WillHunting What OS?

Cerberus

> Chrome: Total: 257.7ms +/- 1.9%

user19161

@Robusto FF10, Ubuntu 11.10, Intel core 2 duo processor.

Cerberus

Note that I have a ton of FF extensions installed, which no doubt make it slower...

Robusto

@Cerberus Who doesn't?

user19161

17:37

I am running a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit processor, there should not be a problem with speed.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto the people who don't use Firefox

Cerberus

@Robusto I heard some people don't. I don't understand it either. But I really have a lot installed.

Anonymous

This is one of my class 4shared.com/mp3/75Xfpfyd/esllarry_2012-01-25_07-00-14.html

user19161

@Cerberus I have almost none installed.

Robusto

But if my old expensive Mac desktop is slower than my new cheap Dell laptop, I might just retire the desktop and get me a new machine. I think I would build a new Windows 7 (or 8) box, with the i5 Intel stuff, etc. Yeah, Windows 7 is good enough that the differences between it and Mac OS are negligible.

Vitaly

17:39

@Robusto i5?

Matt Эллен

:O

Cerberus

@Anonymous By the way, use ifile.it next time: it's better (no waiting time, for starters).

Vitaly

@Cerberus captchas are mandatory for non-registered users now, though

Cerberus

@Robusto Good idea.

Robusto

@Vitaly helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/intel-core-i7-vs-i5-vs-i3

user19161

17:40

@Anonymous Listening to it now.

Robusto

Considering i5 or i7.

Vitaly

@Robusto “March 12th, 2010.” there's been a whole new series of i7's since then, twice as fast as old i7's IIRC

Cerberus

@Vitaly Hm oh...well, I will gladly fill in a Recaptcha and help digitise books, rather than just plain old waiting!

Robusto

@Vitaly First hit. I thought it was enough to explain what I meant.

Vitaly

Ah, that.

well, if you have lotta money to burn, why not go for the top choices anyway ;)

especially if you use SSDs

Robusto

17:44

Yeah, I'm probably going to get a new computer in the next year or so. I'd like to wait till SSD prices come down more.

user19161

@Anonymous I listened to the first few minutes and will stop there. Do you have another tutor for comparison?

Robusto

I need at least a 256GB boot drive if I'm gonna run Windows, because I don't like to install Windows apps elsewhere than the C: drive.

user19161

@Cerberus Now I am wondering if the slowness is related to Ubuntu Unity shell!

Cerberus

@Robusto Why not?

Robusto

@Cerberus Because Windows is fussy when you try to do things "your" way.

Cerberus

17:47

@WillHunting Could be; I really don't know. But I'd expect CPU and browser to have the most impact.

user19161

@Cerberus Just like why you prefer to sleep on one side and not the other. EOS.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting quite likely, that thing is very slow

Vitaly

@Robusto yeah, i'm still satisfied with my desktop in general, but i'm considering buying a separate high-end server for numerics and such now that those new CPUs are out

Cerberus

@Robusto How so? I run all my programs from my D partition.

Theoretically, your would get better performance if you ran your programs from a physically different disk from your OS.

user19161

Will 128-bit processor come out anytime soon?

Robusto

17:48

@Cerberus Why am I even talking to you about this?

Gigili

Isn't it related to the connection speed?

Cerberus

Gee, you're moody.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili the javascript test? no, it's all done client side

user19161

Let me try the test again.

Matt Эллен

well, I assume it's all client side. there could be XHR postbacks, but that seems unlikely

Robusto

17:50

@Cerberus Nah. I'm just saying it's been my experience that thwarting Windows in what it likes to default to simply ends up being more work for me in the long run.

Gigili

@MattЭллен Aha, Good. Mine would be the slowest if it was so.

Robusto

@Vitaly The thing is, the new processors are vastly better than the ones that were available four years ago.

Cerberus

Never mind, this topic has lost my interest.

user19161

Total: 525.7ms +/- 1.0%

Gigili

@Cerberus Maybe because you have nothing to say while you're on XP?

Robusto

17:52

@WillHunting <sad panda>

user19161

This is seriously not good.

Matt Эллен

did you get to the library, yesterday, @Cerberus?

Gigili

Total: 449.9ms +/- 17.1%

user19161

@Gigili OS, browser?

Matt Эллен

@Gigili do you have a lot of other processes running?

user19161

17:53

Might be due to laptop resource allocation.

Gigili

Chrome, Ubuntu 11.10.

Matt Эллен

that seems quite a large variablility

user19161

So maybe Ubuntu is the culprit.

Anonymous

I am uploading next file

Gigili

@MattЭллен Um, no. I don't think so.

user19161

17:54

The weird thing is Ubuntu shuts down twice as slowly as Fedora.

Robusto

@Cerberus Sorry if I was being rude. Didn't mean to offend. I just don't think we're ever going to agree on this issue.

Gigili

Is it disappointing?

user19161

@Gigili Nope, even the best girl for you has her flaws.

Vitaly

@Robusto exactly. so rather than tweaking my desktop every two years or so, i'd rather have a server do the computation-heavy stuff. i don't see how a 2-year-old i7 with 24 GB RAM is going to become obsolete any time soon for a desktop.

Cerberus

@Gigili Nope that's not it.

@MattЭллен Yup, I hauled them all through the snow like a moose!

@Robusto All forgotten.

@Vitaly Only 24 GB!?

Gigili

17:58

@WillHunting Umm, well ... I do need a boy, rather than a boy.

Cerberus

How are you going to calculate the universe with that?

Vitaly

@Cerberus haven't i told you about that in the GoldenDict room?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus That's determination.

Cerberus

@Vitaly I remember we talked about computers, and that you really needed lots of memory. I was just making a little joke to show my surprise at that much memory.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…