English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:00

@MattЭллен Pah!

@WillHunting Hey, I'm not reading his name into every other line in chat.

user19161

@jez How's the going on OKC?

user19161

@Cerberus Kosmo is probably lost in the cosmos now.

user19161

And Rhodri probably still has his beard.

Cerberus

No doubt.

Matt Эллен

why does Rhodri have Kosmo's beard?

user19161

00:03

Just look at the star board. So many stars today!

user19161

@MattЭллен Because Kosmo has no beard. If Kosmo has beard, then Rhodri has it. Since the hypothesis is false, the conditional statement is true. QED.

user19161

Hey quiet elegant dude, please quit explaining dictionaries.

Jez

@WillHunting havent checked lately

user19161

@Jez Hmm, maybe you will be sending out the wedding invitations by the end of the year!

Jez

tell ya what, now that im working in a Company with a ton of different nationalities (im one of only 3 native English speakers), my brain is having to work harder to decode the stuff coming out of people's mouths.

i really hate identical pronunciation of "can" and "can't". Can't people bloody figure out that they are saying the SAME THING and that that might be confusing?

user19161

00:09

@Jez That sounds like an AmE problem.

Jez

Americans tend to pronounce the "t" at the end at least perceptibly, and they also tend to abbreviate "can" to "cn", which makes "can't" easier to distinguish

but there's a ESL guy in the office who just says both forms as "can"

Cerberus

Where is he from?

Jez

"you can do this" - i can? looks like I can't... "yeah that's what i say, you can do this"

Columbia

Cerberus

You can offer him friendly advice in private.

Jez

he never learns :-P

Cerberus

00:13

No? What does he say when you correct him?

user19161

@Cerberus No need to be in private, it's not some terrible thing.

user19161

@Jez Then tell him again. Reinforcement may work.

Cerberus

No, it is better not to correct people in public.

It is more polite, and it works better.

user19161

@Cerberus You are very diplomatic.

Jez

I did find myself mumbling the correct pronunciation of "façade" when he said something like "facc-aid"... felt a bit guilty when the Danish guy next to me chuckled

Cerberus

00:14

Hardly; it is common knowledge.

user19161

@Cerberus Common knowledge that you are diplomatic.

Cerberus

As in fahk-aid?

user19161

@Jez Sounds like fatty acids.

user19161

@Cerberus That sounds vulgar.

Cerberus

Hey, Jez's colleague said it, not I.

user19161

00:16

Contrary to popular belief I am not diplomatic.

Jez

he pronounces English words as if they were basically Spanish. the thing is, I adapt my pronunciation to French when speaking French. I can't believe it's that hard for foreigners to adapt their pronunciation reasonably. it seems like laziness to me.

user19161

@Jez You need to tell him "Jez say it this way!"

Jez

South America should speak English. Fuck Columbus.

user19161

If only the world becomes one.

user19161

No countries.

user19161

00:20

No wars.

user19161

Everyone has food and healthcare.

user19161

But this only happens in my imagination.

Matt Эллен

golly, I'm getting cold. I might go to bed soon

Kitḫ

Wrap up well.

Matt Эллен

I shall. I have my winter duvet.

how was the museum of children?

Kitḫ

00:30

It was some wicked fun, let me tell you.

Matt Эллен

I shall!

Kitḫ

Then we went to the local truck stop for dinner.

Came home and watched two episodes of X-Men: Evolution, and my eldest got a lollipop for dessert because he was a perfect sweetheart the whole time.

Matt Эллен

awwww :) sounds great!

Cerberus

Aww.

And hi!

And does a . match spaces in Regex?

Kitḫ

It was particularly fun at the truck stop for two reasons.

Cerberus

00:32

I think yes?

Matt Эллен

any character, so yes...

Kitḫ

First, we went at "old people hour" so there were lots of grammies and grampies to admire our beautiful, well-behaved children.

Cerberus

OK, I normally don't consider a space a character, but I suspected Regex might disagree, hehe.

Ah, so they behaved, too!

@MattЭллен So thanks!

Matt Эллен

heh, yeah. it matches everything except newline

@Cerberus i was double checking with Google

so you're welcome!

Kitḫ

Second, at the end of dinner, my son says, "Um, Mommy...there are some games I like to play here..."

Matt Эллен

00:34

@Kitḫ I'm sure you got many admiring glances.

Kitḫ

And I said, "Well, honey, it's getting late, so we don't really have time to play games today. But I thought maybe we could go home and watch X-Men before bed."

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Oh, thanks! I am sooo lazy.

Kitḫ

And he squeezes his hands into fists, like he does when he's about to have a tantrum, pounds his hands on the table and says "YES! Let's do that instead!"

Matt Эллен

phew!

Cerberus

Haha, so the fists can mean anything?

Kitḫ

00:37

Usually pounding fists on table means tantrum.

So I was pleasantly surprised.

I think maybe it was more like "I'm feeling very strong emotions right now!"

But it was also really adorable, the way he cautiously lead into the "well, there are these games here, see..."

Matt Эллен

cute!

Cerberus

Haha.

If you ever find some anonymous children-video-upload site, I will certainly watch your son with interest.

user19161

Very soon, they will also be on EL&U.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus I was thinking of making a YouTube channel, just to entertain you all.

Matt Эллен

:D

Kitḫ

00:41

Because hey, my kids are awesome.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Do it!!

user19161

Totally awesome.

Cerberus

I can't guarantee we will watch all 999 episodes of "baby says Mommy", but we'll see how far we get.

user19161

Awesome != Awful

Jez

yipe. i just saw blue waffle.

Matt Эллен

00:43

oh dude

user19161

@Jez What is blue waffle?

Matt Эллен

just, don't link here

well, I suppose I have free will enough not to click on it

Kitḫ

Icky, icky, icky.

Definitely don't hot link.

Matt Эллен

definitely not

user19161

Oh it is a vaginal disease.

Matt Эллен

00:46

on that bomb shell, I'm off to bed.

@Cerberus, don't abuse the subjunctive, ya hear?

Kitḫ

Good night!

Matt Эллен

good night :)

user19161

@MattЭллен Good night! I am going to bed soon too.

user19161

I just checked out some pictures of blue waffle.

user19161

They are certainly not yummy.

user19161

00:47

I thought they were blueberry waffles for breakfast.

Cerberus

Night Matt!

user19161

@Cerberus You should be going to bed soon too! Let's all sleep together!

Cerberus

Oh, God: about one in six messages ever uttered in this room is mine.

I.e. 50k.

I can't go to bed yet; you do it!

user19161

Over and out!

Cerberus

Bye!

Mahnax

01:36

<rant>

Kitḫ

What is up, homey?

Mahnax

Currently, writing a rant.

Ah, smurf it.

Too lazy/mad/apathetic to write anything else today.

Long story short, I'm leaving for work in 10 minutes.

2 hours ago, by Will Hunting

@Mahnax Do you have work later?

2 hours ago, by Mahnax

@WillHunting not today.

Kitḫ

@Mahnax That bites.

Mahnax

@Kitḫ Yep. Co-worker failed to show up for work again, so I'm taking his shift.

I will try to get him fired tonight.

Kitḫ

It's KFC. I imagine there is a high turnover rate, and low sense of responsibility.

You are unfortunately probably one of the few who is a good worker.

Which means it sucks to be you.

Mahnax

01:45

Thanks.

Kitḫ

Also means your manager should watch you closely to make sure you are not stealing. It's always the ones you trust.

Mahnax

I would never steal, and I know that you aren't saying I would, I'm just putting it out there.

Kitḫ

The nice thing is that it will be a pleasant change for you once you get a career-style job.

When being dedicated and responsible will actually pay dividends.

Mahnax

Yay!

Kitḫ

Plus, work experience means you will have an easier time getting a job elsewhere.

Mahnax

01:47

Only... Many more years.

I plan to go to school for a Ph.D.

Kitḫ

Is there a university in your town?

Mahnax

Nope.

Kitḫ

Bummer.

Mahnax

There are a couple close, but I don't plan to go to any of them.

Kitḫ

Sorry your night turned out crappy. Maybe you can entertain yourself by thinking really hard about how the chicken is cooked by having its proteins denatured.

@Mahnax I was thinking you should go see if you can get a job in one of the labs.

Mahnax

01:50

@Kitḫ Hm, that's an idea.

Kitḫ

Washing equipment or something.

Mahnax

@Kitḫ Heh.... the only major problem with me taking his shift is that I also work tomorrow, and Sunday.

Kitḫ

It's a long shot, but I bet you would find it really exciting.

And it would better than working fast food.

Mahnax

So, no weekend for me! Anyhow, gotta run.

Kitḫ

Bye!

aedia λ

01:52

Aaack! I keep trying to chat but then I'm doing w*%k and Voyager is playing and the phone is ringing and everything all at the same time. It's crazy in here.

Kitḫ

I can't get stupid Access to alternate colors on a listview!

But it sounds like you are busier.

aedia λ

Want some cheap pinot noir?

It mayhap will help?

Just color the edges with a crayon and spill riesling in the other rows.

Kitḫ

Sounds good.

Robusto

Access? Really? Why not poke yourself in the eye with a fork?

Kitḫ

I have mentioned before that I accepted this job because it is for a non-profit that several of my friends work for and it is a cause I believe in.

Robusto

02:03

@Cerberus So let me get this straight: You don't go to bed with other people, you have other people go to bed for you?

Kitḫ

It pains me that I am putting paint on cardboard and chicken wire, but they are paying me lots of money to do so.

Robusto

Best reason in the world.

"No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money." — Dr. Johnson

Kitḫ

So Access it is.

Robusto

Access Hollywood? Or Access Microsoft?

Kitḫ

And for some reason, it is not apparent how to alternate the back colors in a listview in Access.

Nor does anyone seem to know how to do it.

Robusto

02:05

Yeah, well ... why I use Flex.

Kitḫ

Uh huh.

Why I don't normally code in VBA.

Robusto

@Kitḫ I never had anything but agony coding in VBA. Or in AppleScript. Both suck ginormously.

Cerberus

02:48

@Robusto That would be very convenient.

Oh, y'all are gone now.

aedia λ

@Cerberus I'm here!

I was just watching Star Trek: Voyager.

Cerberus

03:41

Oh!

Captain Janeway!

7/9!

(Why 9?)

Mahnax

06:03

You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things! Oh, you hard hearts of Rome, you cruel men.

Or something like that.

Cerberus

13:04

Morning!

Gigili

Morning Cerb!

Cerberus

Hi!

Is it "morning" for you too?

Gigili

Hi Cerb!

Cerberus

It must be, what, 4 pm for you?

5?

Gigili

Yeah, I just woke up.

4-5

Cerberus

13:08

Haha, so you're a late sleeper too.

4-5? Is it 4 or 5?

Gigili

Uhum, "haha" with negative connotation or positive?

Robusto

Hiya.

Gigili

4:39

Cerberus

Well, I wish I were of a morning person, but, in truth, I distrust those people (present company excepted).

Ahh so you're in a half-time-zone!

Morning Rob!

Is your whole country one time zone?

Robusto

Which country is that?

Cerberus

13:11

Do you want to guess?

I might be wrong, by the way.

Gigili

@Cerberus Yes, I think so.

Cerberus

Am I?

Ah OK.

It borders on two seas.

Gigili

+1, aaaaand?

Cerberus

And you speak an Indo-European language.

And you conquered parts of Europe once.

And you were once famous for your roads.

Robusto

Italia?

Gigili

13:16

Oh, Were we?

Cerberus

@Robusto Nope.

Gigili

Wer wi wo ...

Cerberus

What?

Robusto

@Cer: ^

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm I see some funny lakes.

It doesn't look immediately familiar.

Robusto

13:18

Pretty recognizable, if you know what you're looking for.

Cerberus

The scale is quite small.

Robusto

Cerberus

I see small green circles that can't be trees.

Those lakes look peculiar, but I'm afraid I don't know them, at least not by their looks.

You may be overestimating my knowledge.

Gigili

@Cerberus Averrhoa bilimbi?

Robusto

Арабатська стрілка

Cerberus

13:22

@Gigili Huh, you think those large things are trees?

Gigili

I never think.

Cerberus

@Robusto Arabatshka stilka?

Arabian style?

Robusto

Strilka, not stilka

Arabatska Strilka

Cerberus

Oh, yes.

I'm afraid I don't know what that means.

I could just fire random guesses but that wouldn't be fun.

Robusto

Look on the other side of the Crimean peninsula.

Gigili

13:24

Arabat Spit

The Arabat Spit (, Arabatska strilka; , Arabatskaya strelka; ), also called Arabat Tongue, is a spit (narrow strip of land) which separates a large, shallow and very salty system of lagoons named Sivash from the Sea of Azov. The spit is located between the town of Henichesk, Ukraine, on the north and the north-eastern shores of Crimea on the south. It is separated from Henichesk by the Henichesk Strait (). Another name of the strait is "Thin Strait" (), which reflects the narrow geometry of the strait – it is about 4 km long, 80–150 m wide and 4.6 m deep. The Arabat Spit is 112&n...

Cerberus

Ah! I see.

Well, I would never have guessed.

Robusto

13:39

@Cerberus Baku, which isn't too far from Arabat. Globally speaking, that is.

Cerberus

@Robusto Ding! And the name of the peninsula?

Robusto

Umm, it's in Azerbaijan ...

Not sure of the actual name of the peninsula, though.

Absheron. I cheated and looked it up. :P

Cerberus

Nooo I'm shocked.

Robusto

Well, next time put up the answer faster.

I had to wait seconds for you to reply, and even then I had to provoke you into it.

Cerberus

Only twenty lashes for you because you fessed up.

Which state did you live in again?

Robusto

13:49

0

Q: "A needs to follow by B"

For example I say: "He feeds the dog." So which one is the right format: "feed" needs to follow by "someone" "someone" needs to follow by "feed" Please note that I want a form like "A needs to follow by B". Edited Actually the first sentence is an example. I wish to ask abou...

grammar

It's really hard when you don't speak English and want to ask questions about it.

@Cerberus I live in a blue state.

Cerberus

Phew!

Consider yourself fortunate.

I live in a green state.

Not that I think the difference is meaningful.

Robusto

I went to a Catholic high school, so I am familiar with corporal punishment. It does nothing to further education.

Cerberus

It is said that it works fairly well with younger children.

Robusto

►

Cerberus

Hmm I don't know her.

Robusto

14:05

Betty Draper from Mad Men. Good show.

Cerberus

Oh, I've heard about it.

People say it's good.

Gigili

Have you seen Rango?

Robusto

In one of the episodes she wants her husband, Don, to give their son a spanking. He balks at that, but she insists, saying, "Didn't your father spank you?" He looks at her and says, "He used to beat me all the time. All it ever accomplished was to make me want to kill him."

@Cerberus Yes. I just did.

Cerberus

@Robusto Nice scene. Though beating is not the same as spanking.

@Robusto Pluralis majestatis?

Gigili

@Gigili I have. It's not that perfect if you're older than 60. That's why.

Robusto

14:13

@Cerberus The distinction is blurred. "Corporal punishment" covers both.

@Cerberus No. In that case I was using the humble singular.

@Gigili Why are you talking to yourself?

Cerberus

@Gigili Are you older than 60?

Damn. I installed some updates to Windows, and now one screen says my Firewall is turned off and can't be turned on, while the other say it's on.

So much for Windows update: I'm restoring my clone.

Robusto

@Cerberus This is XP? Well, I can't really feel sorry for you ...

user19161

@Cerberus I thought you don't do updates?

Cerberus

Thankfully that takes only five minutes and an automatic restart.

@WillHunting I never let Windows update itself automatically; but I do sometimes update it myself. But often it changes things or messes things up, like this.

Cloning disks really is the best thing since the wheel.

Gigili

@Cerberus I'll be, September.

user19161

14:23

@Cerberus If you install all the updates I am sure things will be fine. The problem is you installed only some of them.

user19161

Seriously only nutcases do not install Windows updates.

Cerberus

@Gigili Oh, cool! Somehow I pictured you around 25.

@WillHunting I installed all of the recommended updates.

user19161

@Cerberus And what is the problem?

Gigili

@Robusto I'm sure I'll get response.

Cerberus

@WillHunting See above.

Last time I tried, I got other problems too, ones that only became apparent later.

Gigili

14:25

@Cerberus That's true too though.

user19161

@Cerberus Don't restore the clone yet. After updating, restart and turn firewall on again.

Cerberus

@Gigili You're probably 25 at heart. Although most twenty-somethings are so boring.

@WillHunting I've already restarted twice.

user19161

@Cerberus OK which are the screens that say it is off and on at the same time?

Cerberus

The funny thing is, when I install Autopatcher to download only updates that are actually good, from the MS website itself, it al works perfectly; only when I let Windows do it (and pick them), it doesn't work as smoothly.

Gigili

@Cerberus Okay. I'd assume you're something-teen as you're interesting as hell.

user19161

14:27

It might even be your multiple antiviruses which interfere with the firewall, I told you to use exactly one antivirus, not more or less.

Cerberus

The Security Centre says Firefall is off.

I do not have any anti-virus software installed.

user19161

Also note that antiviruses will turn off Windows Defender in Vista. If not you should turn that off too after installing the antivirus to avoid conflicts.

Cerberus

After installing MS Security Essentials, by the way, I experiences some suspect things as well.

user19161

@Cerberus And when you try to turn it on what is the message?

Cerberus

It said "cannot enable". Oh, but now it's suddenly turned on again! I didn't do anything.

See, this is unstable behaviour. I do not like this.

Gigili

14:30

@Cerberus Dual monitor issue? There's an SE site for that™.

Cerberus

@Gigili I'm very, very boring, i.e. 28.

@Gigili Nope, only one monitor.

user19161

@Cerberus Sometimes you have to wait for changes to be effected. If I remember correctly, the original XP may not have a firewall in the Security Centre. Now that you applied the updates the changes are taking place so be patient.

user19161

@Cerberus I would not call that unstable. Just wait for a while.

Cerberus

@WillHunting No, my XP has always had a security centre. Besides, it's SP 3 with hotfixes.

Gigili

@Cerberus Why are you on Windows when there's something called Ubuntu (./?)

user19161

14:32

@Cerberus Anyway wait at least a while, don't restore the clone yet, that's pointless.

user19161

@Gigili Yeah and Ubuntu sounds like Gigili.

Cerberus

@Gigili Sounds too African.

user19161

@Cerberus You may wish to try Linux Mint. It is the easiest distro out there.

Gigili

And what's wrong with African names?

user19161

And their motto is From Freedom Came Elegance.

Gigili

14:34

I bet if you install Ubuntu, you'll never look back.

user19161

Or try Debian which is harder than Ubuntu but the name comes from Debra plus Ian.

Cerberus

@Gigili The call of the wild would be too strong.

user19161

I suggest Debian Ubuntu Mint take over the world and all other distros close shop.

Cerberus

@Gigili But all of the essential Windows programs that I need will be crying and waving at me.

I have tried Ubuntu on virtual machines, didn't like it, if only because it was different. I would need a very good reason to learn a new OS.

But I've had this discussion here before with several people.

user19161

@Cerberus It's very simple, trust me. My computer knowledge is worse than yours you know.

user19161

14:37

I am on Ubuntu 11.10 now with Unity Shell. I am getting used to Unity though it is not totally stable yet.

Robusto

@Cerberus Windows 7 is backwards-compatible with older software. Up to a point.

Gigili

There's a package which allows you to install Windows programs on Ubuntu.

user19161

@Gigili Namely, Wine. But it does not work well all the time.

user19161

There is also an OS which tries to clone Windows. ReactOS when completed will be able to run Windows executables but that project probably won't be completed this century.

Gigili

The good reason is, no antivirus is needed. The freezing ratio would be 1:1000.

Cerberus

14:52

@WillHunting It's not about being too complex; it is mainly about learning something new when there is no need, and compatibility.

@Robusto Yes, up to a point.

But you're all assuming that there is some big advantage in switching. I have yet to hear what it is.

If someone gave me € 1000, I would certainly switch to Windows 7, why not.

Robusto

@Cerberus That's not the way it works.

Cerberus

No?

Robusto

@Cerberus Windows 7 is better in every way except it might not let you run AHK or some other poorly written software. How's that for an advantage?

In fact, Windows 7 is the first really good OS Microsoft has ever made.

Cerberus

I am stretching all six ears but I fail to hear any specific advantage.

Robusto

@Cerberus "Better" isn't advantage enough? OK, how about it lets you address more than 3.4GB of RAM, it runs faster, has much better security, the interface is easier to use and does more things that it ought to do, task-switching is easier, plug-and-play is implemented better, and so on. Add to that: it's not obsolete.

Indexing is faster and more transparent, making searching faster and more reliable.

"The most astounding result I encountered was the improvement in JavaScript performance, as evidenced by the SunSpider benchmark: Windows 7 was 42 percent better than XP." — PC Magazine

pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355703,00.asp

Cerberus

15:04

I have already mentioned 64 bits as a serious advantage, but I don't need more memory yet anyway. I don't think Windows 7 runs perceptibly faster; in what way, exactly? I haven't noticed much of a difference. Better security is not something that I care about. I do not find the interface easier to use: it doesn't seem much different.

My computer at my parents' house runs 7, so I have plenty of experience with it. I use a program for task-switching that is as good as Windows 7's; besides, it is a minor thing. I don't see what practical advantage "better" plug and play should have for me, but I'm willing to hear your examples. I use Copernic, which is better than any OS's native search anyone.

@Robusto Hmm interesting, let me read that...

Robusto

Also techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/…

Cerberus

> Frankly, the results were a bit surprising. While they aren't a knockout blow for Windows 7, they do show that, by some measures, XP outperforms Windows 7 on legacy hardware.

Robusto

Yes. Are you restricted to an old machine?

Cerberus

@Robusto I built my PC four years ago: I don't know whether that counts as old. I don't think 7 existed yet.

Robusto

Well, there's no point in arguing with a man in love. Enjoy XP. She's right for you. Really.

3

Cerberus

15:09

That guy is testing Javascript in FF 3.5!

I mean, come on.

How is that relevant?

An otherwise interesting article.

@Robusto Hey, why don;t you try the Sunspider benchmark:

webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/driver.html

> Total: 233.8ms +/- 0.7%

That's my score.

On a dual-core 3 GHz machine, video card GT 8800.

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