English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Tonepoet

07:13

Another failure of lingual "descriptivism", brought to you by the same word used to describe cakes, steaks and healthy skin. Meanwhile, everybody loves their "dank" memes. v_v

Saladin

09:30

hello

anyone home?

RegDwigнt

10:00

@sky-light both are equally grammatical. Depending on the context, one of them could be preferable for stylistic or prosodic reasons.

@Saladin no, anyone is not here. But nöone is!

Sometimes a Wikipedia article is just a giant trollfest.

Stat padding

In sports, stat padding is an action that improves a player's statistics despite being of little benefit to his or her team or its chance of winning. An example would be a gridiron football player throwing long passes with an empty backfield on first down in the fourth quarter of a game in which his team was already leading by a large margin. Stat padding is also noticeable in online computer games. A group of players might perform a series of actions which generally require little skill in order to raise a player's statistics. For example, in first person shooters, two or more players might join...

> Stat padding is an action that improves a player's statistics despite being of little benefit to his or her team or its chance of winning.

Yes, yes.

> An example would be a gridiron football player throwing long passes with an empty backfield on first down in the fourth quarter

WUT

I have not seen any of these words before.

Martin AJ

10:20

What's the meaning of "aboard" in this? "welcome aboard"

Andrew Leach

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/aboard

Martin AJ

@AndrewLeach thank you

Tonepoet

@MartinAJ Basically aboard means on or inside a vehicle. It's most often used for boats, airplanes and trains.

Andrew Leach

Or joining companies.

Tonepoet

In a more figurative sense I suppose.

Martin AJ

10:33

One question else: are "suppose", "assume", "consider" identical?

For example:
- suppose sth
- consider sth
- assume sth

Færd

11:41

"drive the speed limit"

> Why do people rarely drive the speed limit on the freeway and why aren't more people getting pulled over?

> I just wish more people could drive the speed limit or faster.

> And finally there are those that actually drive the speed limit on 30 and 35 mph back roads. Slow pokes are never wanted on the road.

I suppose it usually means to drive at the speed limit. Or maybe within the speed limit, sometimes.

Helmar

as fast as the speed limit allows

Færd

So you rule out the within?

Helmar

I'd interpret within as "at the limit or lower"

can be much lower

Færd

I know.

But drive the speed limit can't mean within the speed limit, right?

Yeah, logically it can't.

Thank you.

Helmar

hm, I'd consider it a closed interval

Everything up to and including the speed limit is also within the speed limit.

Færd

11:53

My question wasn't about the within one.

But yes.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt That's not cricket

@Færd It's just the way you say it "I was driving the speed limit, but the cop pulled me over anyway" (meaning I was driving at the speed limit and no faster)

@Færd This one is confusing. Do they think people are habitually driving less that the speed limit? That's usually not the case. So I wonder what context they're speaking in.

Helmar

@Mitch Sunday drivers!

Oh and everyone with plates from somewhere else, they can't drive!

The usual road rage stuff ;)

Mitch

@Helmar Yes, so it is context dependent

Helmar

Not sure, being pissed at other drivers seems to be a universal characteristic of all drivers.

Mitch

@Færd Yes, it means 'at the speed limit', and context implying 'at or above' or 'at or below'

@Helmar Because I'm right and everyone should be like me.

Helmar

12:07

@Mitch Obviously :)

Mitch

@MartinAJ I think this would be a good ELU question.

@Helmar Then why aren't you driving like me!!

Helmar

Cause you got speed limits :D

Mitch

Also, these other cars are in my way or they're riding up my butt. It'd be better if they weren't there at all.

Helmar

Driving could be so relaxed if it wasn't for the other cars.

Mitch

@MartinAJ First: Outside of technical areas where definitions are stipulated - a term is defined to be the exact replacement for another - There are no exact synonyms.

If a word is spelled even the slightest difference, it has some situation where it would be better used than the other.

Færd

12:11

@Mitch Thank you.

Mitch

But for these three words 'assume', 'suppose', 'consider':

'Consider' means to think about it a particular thing. 'You should consider the consequences of your actions'. Or 'Here is a subject about which I will start to discuss'.

'Suppose' means 'informally, let's look at the consequences'. 'Suppose you were in the bank when the robber came in, what would you do'.

'Assume' means 'Take an assumption, and follow its consequences logically' 'Assume for the sake of argument that leprechauns do have a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow'.

So 'consider' just brings up a topic. 'suppose' and 'assume' are more similar, like introducing a hypothesis.

Also, 'From the way he ran across the street I assume he's an athlete' means 'I figured' or 'I inferred as a fact'. A response to that might be 'I suppose so, but he needs new shoes' means I agree partially'

So those are some of the main differences. A dictionary will tell you the common parts of speech and context.

Martin AJ

12:31

@Mitch Ah I see .. thank you so much for your great explanations.

RegDwigнt

@MartinAJ no two words are ever identical, Martin.

That's why they are two words and not one.

Martin AJ

yeah, I meant was synonyms :-)

RegDwigнt

Yes, yes.

Synonyms only exist in context. Without any context, no word is synonymous with any other word.

Same for antonyms. And hypernyms and hyponyms.

Martin AJ

fair enough

RegDwigнt

Just look at a simple example. What is the antonym for "man"?

Færd

12:41

anti-man

RegDwigнt

Is it "woman"? "boy"? "god"? "robot"? "animal"? "plant"?

Martin AJ

@RegDwigнt I got your point

RegDwigнt

Yeah I know, just a quick illustration.

tchrist

> man – woman
man – superman
man – boy
man – beast
man – machine
man – nature
man — nam
man – uɐɯ

RegDwigнt

man – Miranda Otto

Martin AJ

12:43

@tchrist ha ha ha .. what's the last one?

tchrist

45

A: Is “man” the opposite of “woman”?

Yes, nouns can have opposites. For example, the North is the opposite of the South, at least in the American Civil War, just as left and right are opposite in direction — and in theory opposite in politics. The problem is that most nouns can be thought of as having many different properties, an...

RegDwigнt

@tchrist also, stop trolling the OCD people by having exactly one dash be em and the rest en.

tchrist

What's the opposite of the voiced bilabial fricative?

Pick a property and oppose them.

RegDwigнt

I think it's putain de merde.

Helmar

@MartinAJ a devious double mirror

RegDwigнt

12:46

Not a double mirror, a single rotation.

tchrist

U+2012 ‭ ‒  FIGURE DASH
U+2013 ‭ –  EN DASH
U+2014 ‭ —  EM DASH
U+2015 ‭ ―  HORIZONTAL BAR
U+2053 ‭ ⁓  SWUNG DASH
U+2E3A ‭ ⸺  TWO-EM DASH
U+2E3B ‭ ⸻  THREE-EM DASH

Pick one.

RegDwigнt

I pick the minus. Where the hell is the minus? You are no good, dude.

tchrist

mac(tchrist)% unichars '\p{dash}'
U+002D ‭ -  HYPHEN-MINUS
U+058A ‭ ֊  ARMENIAN HYPHEN
U+05BE ‭ ־  HEBREW PUNCTUATION MAQAF
U+1400 ‭ ᐀  CANADIAN SYLLABICS HYPHEN
U+1806 ‭ ᠆  MONGOLIAN TODO SOFT HYPHEN
U+2010 ‭ ‐  HYPHEN
U+2011 ‭ ‑  NON-BREAKING HYPHEN
U+2012 ‭ ‒  FIGURE DASH
U+2013 ‭ –  EN DASH
U+2014 ‭ —  EM DASH
U+2015 ‭ ―  HORIZONTAL BAR
U+2053 ‭ ⁓  SWUNG DASH
U+207B ‭ ⁻  SUPERSCRIPT MINUS
U+208B ‭ ₋  SUBSCRIPT MINUS
U+2212 ‭ −  MINUS SIGN
U+2E17 ‭ ⸗  DOUBLE OBLIQUE HYPHEN
U+2E1A ‭ ⸚  HYPHEN WITH DIAERESIS

I subselected.

I love that one of those is marked TODO.

RegDwigнt

I pick the soft hyphen. Where the hell is the soft hyphen? You are no good, dude.

Also, you can keep your hyphen with diarrhoea, thank you very much.

tchrist

unvoiced bilabial fricative
voiced velar fricative
unvoiced bilabial stop

Helmar

12:50

The U+3030 mustache dash

RegDwigнt

What, no love for unvoiced bilabial vowels? Tsk tsk tsk.

tchrist

⸚̫

⸚̫҇

Helmar

13:21

I think our 4th most used tag is used falsely 90%+ of the time

Mitch

13:53

@MartinAJ Miranda Otto is an actress who played Eowyn, the daughter of a king, in the Lord of the Rings. Her character was a woman who chose to fight in battles. There is a play on words: She kills one of the Nazgul, of which it was said they could be killed by no man, but, ha ha, she's not a man. so she could kill him.

Martin AJ

14:11

@Mitch Oh ... got it :-)

@Helmar :-)

Cerberus

@Mitch Right, she kills its mount, and then the hobbit strikes the Nazgûl itself, and then Eowyn kills it.

Neither is a man, so Tolkien is safe.

Cerberus

14:38

I had misremembered.

Matt E. Эллен

14:59

‖ is the year in unicode

tchrist

15:13

I hate the web.

Mitch

15:28

@Cerberus It's like the pun in MacBeth 'no man of woman born'

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah, because prophecies rely heavily on semantics.

terdon

And because a Caesarian somehow precludes you from being "of woman born". I never got that one.

Kit Z. Fox

Well, as we all know, unless you go through a woman's vagina, it's not a "natural birth".

(Which is me being snarky. I don't actually believe that.)

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox Because if you're hallucinating an agented spirit, it shares your id and deviously fulfills your worst fears. But in this case it is the Nazgul's genie nightmare, granting his wish of living forever, as a sickly old person.

Kit Z. Fox

I think he should have declared, as he was dying: "But man includes woman, everybody knows that!"

Mitch

15:32

@KitZ.Fox Yeah, I didn't think it was a very strong riddle. You've been born, and your mom was a woman. So ... born of a woman.

Kit Z. Fox

No vagina, no bearing. He was untimely ripped. It's different.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox And then the Pedantic Dwarf comes over and kicks him in the knee.

Matt E. Эллен

maybe the prophecy was mistranslated. it actually said "anyone born of a woman"

Mitch

like Cinderalla's squirrel slipper

Matt E. Эллен

so romantic?

Mitch

15:34

or worm slipper.

pantoufle de ver

eww

kinda squishy

Kit Z. Fox

Well, it's got to be pretty accurate. I don't know anyone who has the same size feet that I do.

Cerberus

@Mitch Right, or any Delphic oracle.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox Decompressive Craniectomy and TBI

Watch it til the end, you may need your instruments of torture yet.

Kit Z. Fox

And anyway, the size of the foot is what matters when you're choosing a marriage partner.

Mitch

@Cerberus ooh they're crafty.

Matt E. Эллен

15:36

one of you can have big feet, the other small, otherwise dancing is just a nightmare

Mitch

"Make me a million bucks" ...

Cerberus

A mighty empire shall fall.

Mitch

a million male deer appear

@KitZ.Fox ??

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch This is a little hard to watch, I admit.

Mitch

Oh...Littleashcan.

@KitZ.Fox Two minutes. and there's a reasonable result at the end. trepanning reduces mortality

@Cerberus ??

Matt E. Эллен

15:38

@Mitch no he can't, the chainsaw keeps slipping off his wrist

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch Yeah, I saw. I should watch it again. Seems like it extends life for people who are vegetative or severely disabled?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен I hate that.

@KitZ.Fox Oh. Yes. I suppose. I was mislead by the video that it was for any random person walking around who just got their head bumped by a falling tree branch.

terdon

@Mitch Don't you mean headbutts him on the knee?

Mitch

but the results seem to be geared toward what you said.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch The animations were funny and disturbing.

Mitch

15:40

@KitZ.Fox There should be more funny and disturbing animations of only two minutes... of medical results.

robotic prostate surgery

hahahhah.

gulp

robotic eye surgery

Cerberus

@Mitch Croesus asked the oracle whether he should attack the Persian empire. It replied, "if Croesus attacks Persia, he will destroy a mighty empire".

Mitch

with little dwarves stamping around the operating table.

Matt E. Эллен

I'd like a robotic eye, but a robotic prostate?

Mitch

not the big dwarves. that's overdoing it.

Cerberus

Obviously, the mighty empire was his.

Mitch

15:42

@MattE.Эллен no no no no no.

yes

Matt E. Эллен

lol

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен speaking of robotic eyes.

Matt E. Эллен

speaking with robotic mouths

Mitch

I'd hate to get a sql injected there.

Matt E. Эллен

ewwww. yeah. it would upset the vitreous humour

Mitch

15:44

@Cerberus Oh right. oracles.

@MattE.Эллен which remind me of a joke

hm...maybe just something I thought was funny.

Matt E. Эллен

maybe something that reminded you of something else that was funny at the time

Mitch

or maybe something that was kinda gross, but makes you laugh to cover up uncomfortable feelings.

@MattE.Эллен Sort of. It really wasn't ever that funny, but other people saying so made you repeat what they said.

Like Saturday Night Live.

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus Oracle: useful 50% of the time

@Mitch or Alan Partridge

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен You have to pick the 50% yourself

@MattE.Эллен or Steve Coogan. I keep thinking he's supposed to be funny, but then I just don't get it.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch which in itself is only 50% accurate. so, effectively 25%

Mitch

15:48

@MattE.Эллен Wait... which one is the real one?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I laugh when my friends repeat his humour, but not if I see first hand

@Mitch Steve Coogan

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен That actually would be useful, you just pick the other 75% then

Matt E. Эллен

Or... is he?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен The opposite of Monty Python.

Hilarious on every viewing. When friends repeat it... groan.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch no, these are absolute percentages. if you pick the other one, the prophecy changes things to make sure the other one happens

Mitch

15:50

@MattE.Эллен damn you oracles!

and Alan Partridge.

Matt E. Эллен

Ah ha!

@Mitch a good description

Mitch

"Do you remember the episode when.." "Yes. puts earphones back on"

"I don't know, is it African or European. aughh!" "Fascinating. Did I tell you about my tooth surgery? Eh me hoh ou"

And relevantly...pictures of jort

Would it be wrong of me to complain about 'literally'?

Matt E. Эллен

who is jort?

@Mitch google.co.uk/…

Mitch

They used to be called 'cutoffs'. Who this jort guy is I don't know

Matt E. Эллен

seems to be a Dutch journalist

@Cerberus do you know Jort?

Mitch

16:03

I don't get the 'responsibility'. Is he saying it is your responsibility how other people interpret you?

Matt E. Эллен

I think so

Mitch

and by 'literally the same' I think he means 'There is absolutely no overlap in these people'

@MattE.Эллен Oh. hahah. that's mean.

Matt E. Эллен

yes. it's like they have similarities in how they behave, and he's confused that with the two groups being the same

@Mitch I think it's an interesting point, that want you say and what you wear are your responsibility. I mean, yes, but also, other people have a responsibility in how they behave, so... it's a two way street

otherwise you end up with "her skirt was short" as a defence

taken to the extreme

which is what is expected of Internet arguments

Jort

Jort is a commune in the Calvados department in the Normandy region in northwestern France. == Population == == See also == Communes of the Calvados department == References == INSEE...

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен i thought it was going the direction of 'at some point in your life you are responsible for your own face'.

which the more I think of it, it is terrible.

Matt E. Эллен

sort out your physog

Mitch

16:14

...biatch.

you so ugly it's like you meant to break that mirror

Matt E. Эллен

you so ugly ... I don't have words to express it

Mitch

I'm not going to mention your mother

Matt E. Эллен

and your father smelled like elderberries

Mitch

sends idea to Old Spice

Cerberus

16:35

@MattE.Эллен Jort Kelder, yes, unfortunately.

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus It he bad at journalism?

Cerberus

Well, "journalism".

He has or had a magazine.

Publishing a list of the richest Dutchmen.

Matt E. Эллен

tough job!

Cerberus

And he has a popular television programme in which he contrasts the upperclass with the nouveau riche.

If you call that journalism...

Matt E. Эллен

starting a class civil war!

terdon

16:37

Class action shoot!

Cerberus

Of course he secretly wants to be upper class.

Matt E. Эллен

who doesn't :D

Cerberus

Indeed.

terdon

I don't!

Cerberus

But his heart is in conspicuous money.

terdon

16:38

I want to be rich, not upper class.

Cerberus

Why?

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon of course you say that. that's why it's a secret desire ;p

terdon

Why do I want to be rich or why don't I want to be upper class?

Cerberus

Both.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Screw that. I am as 'upper class' as it gets in a society with no noble tites. Some idiot ancestor shelled out to buy a pointless title a few generations ago when the part of Greece he was living in was under Italian rule.

@Cerberus Rich because, well, doesn't anyone? Not upper class because I find the whole institution ridiculous.

Cerberus

16:40

"Shelled out to"?

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon oh, well then! you already have it. that explains not wanting it

Cerberus

Why would you want to be rich?

terdon

@Cerberus Shelled out to buy, sorry

Matt E. Эллен

oh!

that makes more sense

Cerberus

Ah, well, then it depends on how many generations ago, and who your family are...

terdon

16:42

@MattE.Эллен Not really. Noble titles simply don't exist in Greece. They did for a very brief time but they've never been part of the country's history. So someone or other in the family probably still is a count or a marquis or some such crap, but nobody gives a damn about it.

Mitch

I care.

terdon

I mean, it's bad enough taking a title seriously in countries like the UK and Holland where they actually have a legal underpinning. In Greece where they mean nothing other than that one of your ancestors was stupid enough to pay the government of the day a bribe and get himself a title, taking it seriously is just pathetic.

Cerberus

But upper class is not necessarily about titles.

Mitch

It's about being classy

Cerberus

Some people look down on post-Mediaeval titles here and would not accept them.

terdon

16:44

No, true. Old money and the like, OK. I was assumed you meant nobility since you guys have some.

@Mitch Like the dog?

Mitch

True class resides in the soul

Cerberus

We do, but 90% of it was ennobled after 1815.

Mitch

@Cerberus upstarts

terdon

@Mitch Or sole.

Cerberus

Which some considered of bas taste, because we had been a republic for so long.

terdon

16:45

Why 1815 specifically? What happened then?

Cerberus

We became a Kingdom again.

terdon

Ah. How very backward of you. Most people did it the other way around :)

Cerberus

After 250 years as a republic.

Mitch

@terdon Dog? I think dogs lick their balls. I mean isn't that why Britain left Europe?

Cerberus

@terdon Done that, been there.

terdon

16:46

@Mitch Lassie. Although how you got from a dog's privilege to Brexit is beyond me.

Mitch

I think England knows what I mean.

Wait... who're you calling lassie?

Cerberus

growls

terdon

Classy -> Classie -> Lassie

Mitch

Oh. Never mind

Helmar

17:03

Doesn't matter, Visegrád Group will veto any sensible way to leave anyways

Which means England gets all the downsides of the EU and none of the positive stuff

Like having a say in anything

terdon

@Helmar What would be a "sensible" way of leaving?

Helmar

@terdon Let me rephrase, a way where they get anything they promised in the Brexit campaign

Essentially they are trying to blackmail the UK into being Norway. A paying member of the European Market and Institution with no say in the direction.

Which the UK kinda has to agree to, since London is otherwise broke, which means the whole <insert term for what the UK actually legally is> is broke too

terdon

@Helmar There's no way in hell they'll get what they promised in the Brexit campaign. That was never an option, really.

Given that what was promised was all of the good with none of the bad. You'd have to be a bit of an idiot to fall for it, really.

Helmar

Of course not, but if the Visegrad stick to their veto they might not get anything which is worth mentioning besides a staggering loss of influence.

Mitch

You get what you deserve

Helmar

17:12

Aren't you guys voting on your own doom soon?

Mitch

short fingered vulgarian?

Yes. sobs silently in coner

Helmar

It's a feast for comedians :D

Mitch

all crying inside

Helmar

What would happen if a caps lock key was granted one wish and that wish was to come to life

:D

Mitch

and that caps lock key was in an exploded Cheetos factory?

Helmar

17:17

Apparently

terdon

@Helmar I can sort of live with that, to tell you the truth. Which is petty and small minded of me.

Helmar

@terdon Well the rest of the countries haven't said veto yet, but they'll drive a hard bargain even before anyone can veto anything :)

John Oliver Asks Donald Trump to 'Drop Out,' Become 'Legend'

►

Mitch

17:35

more crying

Færd

19:03

Paraponera clavata

Paraponera clavata is a species of ant, commonly known as the bullet ant, named on account of its powerful and potent sting due to its venom. It inhabits humid lowland rainforests from Nicaragua and the extreme east of Honduras and south to Paraguay. == Taxonomy == Paraponera clavata was first described by Danish zoologist Johan Christian Fabricius, who named it Formica clavata in his 1775 publication Systema entomologiae, based on a worker he collected. Fabricius incorrectly listed its type locality as India, although these ants are only found in South America. French zoologist Pierre A...

> The pain caused by this insect's sting is reported to be greater than that of any other hymenoptera, and is ranked as the most painful according to the Schmidt sting pain index, given a "4+" rating, above the tarantula hawk wasp and, according to some victims, equal to being shot, hence the name of the insect. It is described as causing "waves of burning, throbbing, all-consuming pain that continues unabated for up to 24 hours".

MetaEd

Makes a great pet.

Færd

Yep.

MetaEd

You know, I should introduce some stings and thorns into my roll playing campaign.

Færd

Introduce them under it and roll on over.

Tonepoet

21:38

Heaven looks overpopulated:

I guess it makes some sense that seeing the universe's biggest superstar would be a crowded event though.

MetaEd

22:21

@Tonepoet That looks like a printing error.

I'm sure a black hole looks more like that.

tchrist

22:37

@MetaEd Kaiser

Tonepoet

23:58

@MetaEd Nah, that's no error. That's just the white hole spewing stuff out at the other end of the singularity. Yurs is more like the hellish mess left for the cleanup crew to take over after the divine party is over. =P

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