English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

01:02

0

A: what is the word for something which may exist or may not

Word for what happens to when you have a lap when you're sitting but when you stand up you no longer have a lab but it's still exists

Got that?

Tonepoet

01:18

@tchrist My first instinct is possible but I think we're looking for an abstract noun. =P

Oh, that was posted as an answer.

tchrist

Just so.

Heisenlabs.

Tonepoet

I don't like most actual "no" answers to S.W.Rs. It presupposes that your vocabulary is approximately 13 times larger than even a highly learned person. It'd be better if they had to be qualified by an investigation or expertise within a field likely to use that word.

When I posted this answer I exhausted the resources I thought to be available to me at the time and had the advantage of knowing how the proposed word was to be spelled, so I was capable of dismissing the possibility of such a spelling.

tchrist

01:34

How do "no" answers presuppose that your vocabulary is approximately thirteen times larger than the vocabulary of even a highly learned person?

Tonepoet

A moderate estimate for the average vocabulary of known words for an adult is 75,000 words. That's also the number of words in The American Dictionary of the English Language by Noah Webster, Second Edition, which was qualified by 28 years of research. Most stated estimates for the number of words in the English Language range around one million. It's simple division.

tchrist

Isn't that like saying that you have a 50% chance of dying tomorrow because at the end of the day we know you will either be alive or dead?

Tonepoet

Well, when I say 28, that's actually for the first edition and preexisting lexicography efforts, so it's more.

You either know such a word exists, or you don't. I have no way of knowing if you're more likely to know a word than the typical person unless you give me a reason to believe it.

tchrist

What's your guess?

Tonepoet

Guesses are for P.O.B. questions.

tchrist

01:44

Let the Pri$oners of Bill answer their own questions. I asked for your guess.

75k is not likely.

Tonepoet

Hmm, well I don't know honestly. I'm not even very educated at all so my vocabulary is probably closer to 35,000 words (typical) and the ones I might remember off the top of my head may be as few as 1,700 (I had another source for that but I can't remember what it was).

Cerberus

@tchrist L&S: septemtrio; prop. the seven plough-oxen; hence, as a constellation

tchrist

YES!

I knew there was a reason related to seven that I’d forgotten!

Tonepoet

@tchrist What do you mean by that?

tchrist

Not many sources support your figure.

Cerberus

01:47

I don't know what the -trio part is, though.

Tonepoet

@tchrist I've read a few and I provided one.

If anything I think the million word estimate is more questionable.

tchrist

What I read is that the average active vocabulary of native speakers is around 20k, and ranging up to twice that for recognition.

Tonepoet

@tchrist I said "learned".

tchrist

I’ve never tested in the bottom 99% of vocabulary proficiency at any point over the past fifty years.

Tonepoet

What am I supposed to infer from that?

tchrist

01:52

That whatever your metric of average — which is pretty thick — I’m not there.

Tonepoet

Even if the vocabulary is smaller, that only makes the purported problem worse so I feel it's a moot point anyway.

tchrist

I’m rather surprised at you, though.

The way you applied numbers and division makes no sense to me.

@Cerberus Thank you.

Tonepoet

@tchrist Well how would you do it?

Cerberus

0

Q: What is the origin or significance of "-trio" in "septentrionalis"?

The word septentrionalis "northern" comes from septentriones, cf. Lewis & Short: septentrĭōnes (septemptrĭōnes), um (sing. and tmesis, v. infra), m. [septemtrio; prop. the seven plough-oxen; hence, as a constellation] But what does this -trio mean? Does it have anything to do with the Itali...

etymology

But I already know the answer.

Just to keep the site alive.

tchrist

@Tonepoet The problem is that you assume that there are N people who each know unoverlapping 75k words. That's silly. You have to start pulling in normal distributions and sigmata and corpus analytics and Zipf’s Law.

@Cerberus Is that at issue?

Basically, most native speakers know most of the same words.

Cerberus

01:59

Well, we can't be sure.

It's likely to remain small.

You know about the Area stats.

tchrist

I saw something today that I would have considered migrating if it had been younger.

@Cerberus Yes, although I've not looked.

0

Q: A single word for a person who encourages terrible rumors about themselves to feel protected

I have a character (a prince) who is born albino in a very superstitious country. His Uncle's intense fear of killing him (and releasing the demon inside him) is the only thing that saves his life when his kingdom is overthrown as a child. He learns that having people falsely fear him keeps him...

single-word-requests

Why? :(

Tonepoet

@tchrist I'm only assuming that any one answer can only be posted by any one person. Granted, I suppose there is going to be some overlap between the questioner and the answerer though.

tchrist

I can't even bring myself to close it. I can just go whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

> I need a term for someone who encourages his own awful reputation so that he can win through fear without having to actually be fearsome.

Use that one in a sentence, I double-dog dares ya.

Tonepoet

Oh, his own?

Cerberus

@Tonepoet I only see this now, but I think most reasonable points of view have been addressed on that page.

tchrist

02:04

Sigh. I had no idea your question rate was that low. I'm sure I could generate a question a day for a month if I put my mind to it.

Cerberus

You'd make some people very happy.

But beware of things that make SE feel like a chore, lest you grow tired of SE altogether.

tchrist

Yeah.

Tonepoet

@Cerberus It might still be worth posting the one you think is most reasonable, or commenting upon which one you think it is. Right now the accepted answer is from Andrew Leach and Edwin Ashword awarded it. These people have less than 2,000 rep on E.L.L. if I recall reading their profiles properly, which may be the pot calling the kettle black but still, I think you can deduce my point.

Cerberus

I haven't been active on ELL for a long while, to be honest.

And I have to go now.

tchrist

Ask Snails.

Cerberus

02:07

But I appreciate the suggestion.

Tonepoet

Okay, bye @Cerberus

Cerberus

Valete!

Tonepoet

Hey @snailplane , I've got a question for you: What do you think are good criteria for a question to meet in order to be qualified as a good candidate for migration into E.L.L?

user227867

07:03

@Tonepoet I just read Wikipedia about Noah Webster and his dictionaries, lol. Hmm, I think maybe I will get NOAD instead. Reviews on Amazon are excellent.

Tonepoet

Maybe you should go for the worst dictionary, rather than the best one. You can pass it around to friends and marvel at the incomplete vocabulary. =P

Matix

07:41

Can someone answer this? ell.stackexchange.com/q/103944/41896

user227867

08:23

@Tonepoet I have submitted my request to delete all SE accounts. I won't return to SE anymore. Take care. I hope to see you some day. =P

SmokeDetector

08:41

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] All-caps answer: Usage of "would" for future by Shahid Yar Khan on english.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

10:22

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Asking for feedback on a meeting summary by Fredrik on english.stackexchange.com

RegDwigнt

@tchrist if I hold out my arm like this, then the sun is to the left of it, but then again Einstein says if you look at it from a different angle then there is no left.

Helmar

12:21

A new user who actually picked the correct tag on the first go, if it wasn't such a shitty question I'd applaud.

-1

Q: Conversation Exam

Will you be able to offer her something decent? a) I´m not afraid so. b) I´m sorry not. c) I´m afraid not. d) I´m sorry but no. Plz help me out I'm confused what to answer

word-choice

Lawrence

@WillHunting Just wondering whether my previous reply to you regarding Bible versions was helpful to you. Anyway, regarding your departure: so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, adieu.

Anonymous

13:42

@WillHunting Farewell, blue square.

Anonymous

Is anyone else as surprised as me by the frequency of untypical in the Google Books corpus? books.google.com/ngrams/…

Anonymous

@Tonepoet Thanks for pinging me. That will take some thought :-)

Mitch

13:58

@snailplane Surprised that it is so high (roughly 1/10th the correct 'atypical')? I'd want to compare with other similar mistakes. 'Atypical' is an atypical word (rarer) so I'd expect maybe -more- mistakes with it.

Anonymous

Yes, I thought untypical would be much lower!

Kit Z. Fox

14:44

I wonder if there is a difference in connotation.

Atypical = without an existing type v Untypical as roughly a type that isn't common.

Mitch

15:10

@KitZ.Fox atypical means to me 'not common, not typical'

Kit Z. Fox

I'm grasping at straws.

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

You looking for a needle or something @KitZ.Fox?

Kit Z. Fox

Yes. Yes, I am.

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

15:25

ELA Stack scares me away sometimes

Unlike Lifehacks you have to actually show your work and provide examples.

It's middle school all over again

Mitch

@Demisemihemidemisemiquaver What is ELA Stack?

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

Heck

That's what my ELU class was called

Got confuzzled for a second there

Mitch

That makes one of us.

I'm still whatthehelled

Kit Z. Fox

English Language Arts.

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

Actually, I think it was just English LAnguage

Mitch

15:29

Oh. I thought it was a friend named Ela, like another friend Ana, and the other friend Oto.

@Demisemihemidemisemiquaver Real life is like middle school, except people have less energy to be a jerk to your face but still think bad thoughts. Also they can drive. And it's just as made up just different rules.

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

15:49

Drive over person you hate > Bad thoughts about them

Mitch

Also need to think of consequences like repairing dent in fender

Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

Blood stains paint a ton I hear

That'll cost me Dozens of dollars!

Nick

16:41

@Helmar You guys sure have a way with words. Why do words have to be so hard? It's so hard to muster the right words for the right circumstance.

terdon

16:56

@tchrist Oh wow, when you add references you don't screw around!

tchrist

@terdon It annoyed me that what's-his-name came off as representing that I was making it all up.

terdon

@tchrist I thought I was the one who suggested that.

caub

17:51

Why do people need to eat together, I mean when eating I don't really want to do it with other people, with all that ceremonial. I don't see this behavior in other animals as well (unless they eat a prey in place)

ah, maybe the fact of using less energy and cooking for more people, not even sure it's efficient

Helmar

@caub Other animals don't share gossip over food ;)

caub

theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/11/dinners-ready/… hehe yes ^

Mitch

@caub sitting around the carcass, one's got the entrails, another the heart. hey, Liver anyone!

caub

the best part for the end

seriously I don't like restaurants, or just eating with people, mostly because I don't like most of what people eat. I hope I'll be able to skip those occasions

hmm sorry for this stupid, egocentric thought

Færd

19:10

I find no record of want something of somebody in dictionaries, yet it sounds familiar and natural to me.

Also of keep after somebody (so that you know they'll do what they're supposed to do).

I guess they're common enough to be listed as valid phrasal verbs?

YOU

19:44

I have proof of your lie
I have prove of your lie

Which is correct line?

MetaEd

"Proof", because it is the noun. "Prove" is the verb.

If you want to use a verb, you could write "I have proved your lie".

Or more idiomatically, "I have proved that you lied".

YOU

Thank you!

MetaEd

Stop by any time.

Helmar

21:20

0

Q: How to say the total amount?

I'm not sure if the saying of the total amount USD 23,428.32 is correct below (esp. the 'cent' part after the dot): Say U.S. dollars twenty-three thousand four hundred and twenty-eight and thirty-two cents. And if it is 23,428.00, do I say Say U.S. dollars twenty-three thousand four hu...

numbers speech money

120k views, no up vote :D

That requires a special kind of really interesting and simultaneously really uninteresting question.

barlop

22:46

I don't know if this is off topic as a question.. but regarding the Etymology of the name Solomon.. In The Hebrew his name is Shlomo, A letter for Sh/S, a letter for L, and a letter for M. There is no N. In the English for some reason there is an N. Interestingly, in the Arabic, there is an N, the Arabic is Sulayman. The English seems to sound more like the Arabic than the Hebrew. I'm wondering where the English name Solomon derives from such that it sounds more like the

arabic than the hebrew

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…