@MετάEd wait, that's nasty. how did you get makeup inside your mouth?
@Tonepoet that's 150 yrs or more (13thc = 1200's). But I don't trust that. good morwe, good morning are surely much earlier. Phaticisms like greetings aren't normally recorded in poetry or narrative writing which is much more formal. So my great suspicion is that they were used much earlier, and really the ancient germans probably had something cognate anyway.
@Tonepoet a good example of the problem with dictionaries. That first definition is not what 'whiplash' evokes in any native speaker. whiplash is what happens to your neck when you bump into another car, your neck snaps forward.
@Mitch It's supposed to be the first thing it evokes because it's obviously a metaphor. The context makes it rather clear what's meant and the definition is valid even if it is less common.
and then you'd have to take into account the cultural context of the future historians, their ethnicities, their childhood traumas (or lack thereof, explaining a desperate need to surveil the lives of others), time of day (often overlooked).
@mitch I just checked all the usual online suspects over. Aside from the Cambridge learner's dictionary, all the others list the lash of a whip definition first. Besides, since when did we start being picky about how common a definition is?
In Latin, lego also means collect, but the metaphor was about collecting written words as a reader, rather than collecting spoken words as a speaker as in Greek.
"I got 500 whiplashes" sounds like a foreigner. we don't know whether they mean they were in 500 car crashes and hurt their neck (because that's the natural understood meaning of 'whiplash') or 500 lashes of the whip (which would make more practical sense because 500 car crashes is pretty unlikely to happen), but that sounds strange, you wouldn't say it that way, you'd say '500 lashes of the whip'
Well we don't discuss lashing whips very often anymore because they're obsolete. The only reason somebody might want to use them after the advent of guns is to keep slaves and the English speaking nations abolished slavery.
@Tonepoet Not common at all. at the point of a gun a native speaker would say 'Do you mean that literally like the lash of a whip? or is it 'whip of a lash'? Here, why don't you loosen these shackles and I can show you.'
@Tonepoet I know, but what? Seriously, I don't know a single person who would think 'getting struck with a whip' as opposed to 'got into a car accident'.
@Tonepoet You have two native speakers here who disagree with that. Both of whom have given a good descriptive argument on how to read and understand the word, and interpret the entries in the dictionary. Who're you going to trust? Your reading of the book or ours?
@Mitch My point with that is that if we are going to be polling which construct is more likely to be used, we need to ask people who actually use the sentences in question. Other than people who actually use whips, you've also got fantasy writers.
@Tonepoet OK. Then you agree with us that 'whiplash' almost always means an injury from a quick turn of the neck? and rarely if ever literally means a lash of a whip?
@Cerberus It's not bad to fight against oppression. I'm no supporter of the Iranian government's actions either. But I bet you some million reputation points none of these men gives a shit about women rights.
Just because some people used to follow tradition blindly in the 19th century, that doesn't mean tradition is bad. On the contrary. You just have to make sure bad traditions are killed, and keep honour the good ones.
The recent global mental wave of distrusting your government is much, much more worse and prevalent in the case of Iranians @Cerb. They do a million funny things everyday to "make some point".
@TIPS at some point in the past (before early 80's, no one in Iran wore the hijab (except maybe out in the countryside). So the fashion changed. It could change again.
@Cerberus Because they don't. They don't really care. If the Iranian government instead spoke of women rights, they would've put pictures of women with hijab.
@TIPS But to someone's point not necessarily here, most of those people are super old and will die soon. But then all the young women are going to get sick and tired of wearing the hijab during the hot hot summer.
Hmm, well i just mean the metaphors are interpreted as if the literal meaning of the metaphor is the alluded one and so the metaphors lose any qualities of allusion, alongside the thought processes which made the metaphors so effective in the first place.
BUt that is a neologism somewhere here on chat for getting a chat message preceded by message from other interleaved conversations, thereby possibly renegotiating the meaning based on the new context
I'm not concerned about what better they can do now. There are hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people who sympathize with those objections if not participate in them. Should they all be called insincere?
@TIPS sue, chador. they show a lot of hair above their forehead. I use hijab to mean headscarf even though it is literally a lot more than that. a lot more cloth
Truth is . . . Iranians have been oppressed for so long, a sudden spark of liberty may have horrifying results. Like leaving someone in the desert without food for some days, then taking them to a neat kitchen.
@TIPS Also, because of the lack of recent rain here, and because I've been secretly watering my grass, for once, really, the grass is greener on my side of the fence.
@Tonepoet I think Orwell was just esthetically displeased by them because they were over used, and that those who (over) used them really didn't have a clear understanding of what the new metaphorical meaning was, which led to empty bombast in speeches which seemed to impress voters who weren't thinking real hard.
I just wanted to say if you want to approve or oppose something you should get a good understanding of what it is and what are the intentions behind it.
@Mitch I saw Ghostbusters. I loved it. I have the entire dialogue of the original movie memorized, I've seen it so many times, but I think the new one is better than the original in every way.