English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

13:17

0

Q: Word for object in programming that connects to relay

What is a word for an object that connects with something? Connector is used to describe a specific part in electronics but I need a word describing that the abstract object connects with something. This is an object in programming that allows the programmer to connect to a local proxy relay. I w...

Hugo

Duplicate:

user19161

Reopening after a heavy edit.

Hugo

0

Q: What's the correct way for pronouncing "route"

I always thought that the word route should be pronounced as ru:t (my english dictionary also says that). But I hear people say it as raut. What's the correct way? Or both are correct?

pronunciation

user19161

I am glad I pulled the edit off. Phew!

user19161

@Hugo Done!

Hugo

13:19

@WillHunting Thanks!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting why would you re-open that question?

"Word for things that connect... but not connector." and in the comments he says "oh, I guess conenctor is the word"

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, because he has provided more context. But it is up to everyone to decide.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Right, but I thought he concluded that "connector" is the word

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 But there could be a more suitable word so as not to confuse with connector in the stated electronics context.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> Never mind, it does fit my context.

user19161

13:23

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Maybe he should have said "Connector is the word, QED"!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting "connector" doesn't have an electronics connotation.

Cerberus

13:40

Morning.

Jez

afternoon

user19161

Evening.

Cerberus

Heh.

Well, I was close.

JSBᾶngs

g'morning sundry

Cerberus

What time is it again in Singapore?

user19161

13:52

9.52pm.

user19161

I am using Network Time Protocol so time should be correct to the second.

Cerberus

Ah OK, so a 7-hour difference.

2.53 PM here.

1.53 at Jez's.

user19161

@Cerberus I thought you were on the continent to the left for a moment.

Cerberus

I might as well be, with my sleep cycle.

user19161

@Cerberus Actually you are in the netherworld.

user19161

13:54

The time there is a bit different I think.

Cerberus

That, too.

You have no idea how big this place is.

We span all the time zones.

user19161

You will be glad to know that FF also uses XP.

Cerberus

Oh!

Yay!

user19161

2

Q: Compatibility View problem with XP/IE8

While posting against this question I discovered that my Internet Explorer was running in Compatibility View mode. I toggled it off, and my page layout problems vanished, so I changed what started as an I've got problems too! post into a possible solution for anyone in my situation. Since then I...

bug comments

Cerberus

I must say I nearly always agree with him on anything.

user19161

13:56

Though he uses IE but you use FF.

Cerberus

Hmm yes, I'm not a huge fan of IE8, surprisingly.

It works, but I don't understand how people get through life without some good extensions, hehe.

JSBᾶngs

IE9 is where it's at

or chrome

FF has dropped off the list for me

Cerberus

Really?

Why?

user19161

IE has accelerators instead of FF add-ons.

user19161

I tried IE and chrome again a few weeks ago but still disliked them.

Cerberus

13:58

I don't perceive much a difference between FF and Chrome these days, except that I have all my extensions set up in FF.

JSBᾶngs

FF is too slow. or was, last time i tried it.

user19161

FF has better control over add-ons than IE has over accelerators and chrome still cannot not save history unless in incognito.

Cerberus

Slow?

JSBᾶngs

my preference order is now chrome > IE > FF

Robusto

@JSBᾶngs I still use FF for development, but only for development. Still haven't found anything that beats Firebug.

Cerberus

13:59

When doing what?

JSBᾶngs

@Robusto that's probably the only thing. though i find that both chrome and IE have decent dev tools now

Robusto

@JSBᾶngs Getting there, but still not as good as FB.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus when browsing the web

Cerberus

I happened to read the latest speed tests, in which FF and Chrome were about the same, with FF topping Chrome even in one or two areas.

JSBᾶngs

@Robusto no, not quite as good. but good enough to make me not want to go through the hassle of installing a new browser, given that i very rarely need to do the sort of web dev that FB is for

Cerberus

14:00

@JSBᾶngs Right, so you mean loading a random page?

Robusto

BTW, is there anything more useless than themes for a browser?

Cerberus

@Robusto No.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus i'm actually more concerned w/ memory footprint and stability

user19161

@Robusto Yes, spell-checking.

Cerberus

@Robusto Actually, yes, there is.

JSBᾶngs

14:01

has FF adopted the process isolation model from chrome yet? IE has

Cerberus

I used to use a Compact theme for my FF to save as much screen real estate as possible.

But it is no longer necessary with current default FF layouts.

Robusto

Themes are different from layouts. I mean, who needs a Hello Kitty theme, or a Tool theme, or a Star Wars theme? Even if you like that kind of crap on your desktop, none of it shows up well in the tiny margins of the browser. And most of them just make menus and buttons hard to see.

user19161

I have yet to try Jez's FF addon.

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Hmm all tabs are still one process, but all plugins have a separate process, and I must say my browser has never ever crashed since then. It was probably Flash that used to cause most stability problems; now they're completely gone.

user19161

@Robusto The same thing applies to blogspot themes.

Robusto

14:03

Agreed.

Jez

@WillHunting I have 4 addons ;-)

user19161

@Jez Are they all themes?

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Memory footprint is bad. But it's just as bad for Chrome, in my experience; and, on top of that, I've noticed Chrome using 30 % CPU permanently in the background several times.

Jez

3 are themes

Cerberus

@Robusto I couldn't agree more. But a theme that makes the interface more compact can be useful, even though it isn't really needed any more now with modern FF.

@Jez Only 4?? Who are you, the virgin Mary?

Jez

14:06

?

user19161

@Jez OK what is the other one?

Cerberus

How come you don't have a hundred?

Robusto

I think FF will keep improving. For a long time it was the only real alternative to IE, but then along came Chrome and since then FF has realized how non-essential it really is.

user19161

I wonder why all the various OS wallpapers provided by default for selection are so ugly.

Jez

@WillHunting featurefix, which un-fuckifies some of the other stuff the firefox UX team decided was a good idea

user19161

14:08

@Jez You should submit that new word to the OED.

Jez

eg. dumbass favourite star in urlbar where it can be clicked accidentally

user19161

@Jez True, I clicked it accidentally a few times.

Cerberus

I'm also loaded up on Greasemonkey scripts an userstyles.

Robusto

@Cerberus I thought you said you couldn't use Greasemonkey. Lies!

Cerberus

@Robusto What? Why would I say that?

Robusto

14:10

Jan 15 at 18:14, by Cerberus

@Robusto If only I could do that!

Cerberus

I can't write any scripts myself: perhaps that's what you mean?

Robusto

Geezis, I'd have given you the script. I already did the hard part in figuring out the Regex.

user19161

I tried reading up on the difference between a script and a program or a scripting language and a programming language. It's confusing.

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh! Is that what you meant! You can write a GM script to replaces URLs? Wow.

JSBᾶngs

@WillHunting in practical terms there is no difference, except an informal difference in levels of perceived power

Cerberus

14:12

That would be a really nice thing to have, if you have it.

@JSBᾶngs How do you type IPA?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Perhaps I could ask this on superuser and see if I get rotten eggs.

user19161

It will give me an excuse to create another account.

Cerberus

Are the kids on SU bullies?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Um, Chrome explicitly does NOT save history in incognito

Cerberus

I never quite understand what SU is for specifically.

user19161

14:15

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Which is what I said. :-)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, you said "unless in incognito"

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 BTW, what did you use to type IPA again?

You didn't say.

JSBᾶngs

@WillHunting 'twould actually be better for programmers.se i think

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't use anything to type IPA.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Huh...

JSBᾶngs

14:17

@Cerberus i use the online ipa keyboard: ipa.typeit.org

Robusto

var href = location.href;
var regex = /(\.single)\.html$/i;
if (!regex.test(href)) {
location.href = href.replace(".html",".single.html");
}

JSBᾶngs

at least when on the netz that's what i do

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus on the two or three occasions that I needed to, I just copied and pasted from wikipedia

user19161

19 mins ago, by Will Hunting

FF has better control over add-ons than IE has over accelerators and chrome still cannot not save history unless in incognito.

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Ah yes, I used to use one of those too.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK I see.

@Robusto Oh! Is that really all you need??

Thanks, man!

Robusto

14:19

Yep.

Cerberus

Don't I need some kind of thing on top?

Robusto

Look at your other Greasemonkey scripts.

Jez

@MattЭллен What gets me about Scottish independence is the utterly arbitrary nature of what we humans call a 'country'. Some people already call Scotland a country now. Others say it needs to become one. Some Scots say London is 'too far away', but look at Russia, China, USA, Canada, Brazil, etc. There are major cities in those countries which are VASTLY further away from the capital than Edinburgh from London.

I guess what it comes down to in the end is how loudly some whinging nationalist bastards can scream their message, and how willing the motherland is to use force to stop them seceding.

Robusto

@Cerberus If you have a browser with a console, paste that into your console and run it and see what happens.

Jez

Personally I would very much like to bomb the scottish parliament into the ground.

and have summary execution for anyone referring to scotland as a 'country'

but maybe that's just the Vladimir Putin in me

JSBᾶngs

14:21

i'm in favor of scottish independence, much like i'm in favor of independence for quebec and vermont

and basically anyone else who wants it

Jez

it's utterly arbitrary.

JSBᾶngs

of course. so what?

Jez

you start giving independence to 'anyone who wants it' and things will get out of control

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Wow, with such loving neighbours, I can't imagine why Scotland would ever consider seeking their own independence!

Jez

there are tons of little places that want independence

JSBᾶngs

14:22

yes, and most of them should get it

on what moral or practical grounds should scotland be forced to be part of the UK if they don't want to be?

Jez

whatever. i just find it very weird to look at a map and ask, why is Vladivostok part of Russia?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm going to have to (shockingly) agree with @JSB here: I'm in favour of independence for anyone who wants it.

Jez

@JSBᾶngs perhaps because not everyone wants them to be independent? scotland isn't one person.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But I'm not in favour of Quebec wanting their independance.

JSBᾶngs

afaik vladivostok doesn't want to secede, but if they did i'd say more power to them

Jez

14:23

@MrShinyandNew安宇 are you joking or something?

Cerberus

@Reb: Wow, it works!! Thanks a lot!

JSBᾶngs

@Jez right, but i'm operating under the assumption that the majority of scots vote for independence

Jez

@JSBᾶngs chechnya did, and they got attacked.

tibet does, and the world doesnt give a shit

JSBᾶngs

if the majority opposes indepedence, then that's obviously a different matter

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez No, actually.

Jez

14:24

@MrShinyandNew安宇 so if they want independence you're ok with it

JSBᾶngs

(but nb: there was no majority of colonists in the americas who wanted independence from britain. the american revolution was orchestrated by a small cabal of rich landowners from new england who did not represent the majority view.)

@Jez right, but that was ridiculous

tibet should also be freed

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't think Quebec should secede from Canada. But if a clear majority (I'd say it should be 2/3s consensus) wants independence, then I don't see on what grounds I could ask them to stay.

JSBᾶngs

although tibet's cause is very trendy, which makes me somewhat tired of it

user19161

Oh dear, politics is the most boring topic.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez "Ok with it" can be interpreted so broadly. I certainly wouldn't like it.

JSBᾶngs

14:26

@MrShiny what good is quebec doing you? both you personally and "you" as in greater canada

Cerberus

And should we listen to a majority of, say, 55 % of voters, who are only 20 % of the people, if they want an independence which will ruin them and us?

Jez

well the scottish referendum will be on the basis of a 51% consensus.

but again, i'd personally tell them to fuck off. they're not having a referendum, nor a parliament. then i'd watch what they did.

i doubt it would be much.

the problem is that Blair just caved in to the SNP for no reason

this actually increased support for independence because scotland had "won"

which was pathetic

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs Me, personally, I have family from there and I consider Quebec part of my homeland and nation. For Canada, I think it actually helps to have them here, because some of their constant whining is good for Canada. Diversity of opinion can be helpful. Also, their little outpost of culture is part of Canada's overall culture.

Cerberus

I don't particularly care for a majority if what they want is wrong, i.e. bad for them and us; but I think oppressing their wish for independence, if a sufficiently large majority want it, is more destructive than allowing it.

Jez

i also completely lost confidence in any referendums since the AV one

where the UK voters sacrificed their opportunity to have a better electoral system

JSBᾶngs

14:28

i still can't figure out why @Jez doesn't like scottish independence, other than the fact that he thinks they're whingers

Jez

i now say referendums are overrated.

Cerberus

@Jez AV?

JSBᾶngs

@Jez i've said that for a long time

Jez

@Cerberus Alternative Vote

Cerberus

@Jez The thing is just that most people are dumb.

@Jez What's that about?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:29

@Cerberus Well, don't people have a right to be wrong?

Jez

@JSBᾶngs the other day I bought something from EuroPC, a company near Glasgow. if it were an international transaction I'd think twice before buying from them, limiting my choice. i think that's unfortunate, both for scotland and for england.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, clearly i'm the smartest person in the world and should be in charge of everything. But basic democratic principles prevent me from forcing my will on all of you.

Jez

the extra red tape more than outweighs any ego advantages independence may give Alex Salmond.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez you wouldn't get to buy scottish stuff so easily? that's pretty weak tea, esp. coming from someone who called for carpet-bombing the scottish parliament.

Jez

@Cerberus a (slightly) better (preferential) voting system than the one the UK has now.

Cerberus

14:31

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't think so. I want a country to be governed in a way that is best for all; that is in theory independent of what people want. However, it usually turns out that doing something that most people don't want is not good for anybody, so we let them have it their way. But, as Churchill said...

Jez

@JSBᾶngs I don't see your logic.

bombing their parliament stops independence, and allows easier non-international trade to continue :-)

Cerberus

@Jez Why? I order stuff abroad all the time.

@Jez Oh OK.

Jez

@Cerberus i don't tend to. different standards, tariffs...

JSBᾶngs

@Jez maximizing consumer choice is a very weak moral principle, if it's a moral principle at all. especially in comparison with the desire for nat'l independence

Jez

i will sometimes, but only if necessary

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:32

@Cerberus So, tyranny is the best political system then?

Jez

@JSBᾶngs I don't see why; one of the major arguments FOR independence is that it will somehow help Scottish business

Cerberus

@Jez Bombing their parliament will make no difference in that respect: you can stop them easily without doing that—in fact, it will become MUCH harder to do so if you bomb them.

@Jez Why not?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Maybe we should elect Cerberus as a benevolent dictator of the world

Jez

@Cerberus keep up, i just said

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 In theory, an all-knowing, benevolent tyrant is the best option. In practice, too little democracy is bad, as is too much.

Jez

14:33

lol, this wireless mouse is going craaaaazeh. good job i have a wired keyboard. wireless peripherals suck.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Do you think that if it could be shown to be completely economically neutral that you'd support their independance? Or that they'd stop their claims?

Cerberus

@Jez Standards and tariffs? They don't bother me when I order something abroad. I don't understand.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, it's a weak theory that relies on an all-knowing dictator.

Cerberus

Weak in what sense?

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 neutral, no, because that would be a waste of time and money for no gain. beneficial? i might look at independence. but it aint beneficial, as far as i can see, to anyone except those whose ego is already massively inflated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:35

Weak in that there is no such thing and never has been? So you're not forming a very good basis of government

Jez

@Cerberus they bother me. why wouldnt a tariff bother you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez it can't be a waste of money if it's economically neutral

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus yes. unfortunately there are no all-knowing benevolent tyrants willing to step forward at the moment.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew i mean the cost of transferring the administration to scotland

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I mean, if we're allowed to posit superheroes or gods as actual heads of state then we can imagine all kinds of awesome governments :)

@Jez I mean "Imagine it were economically neutral", i.e. factor in the costs before you determine the neutrality

Cerberus

14:36

@Jez Oh. Well, sure, if they really charge you a substantial sum. But there is no such thing within the EU anyway. You don't pay any import tariffs.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, so? I said it wasn't practical.

Jez

@Cerberus then you've got currency conversion. and no, i dont want us to use the Euro.

Cerberus

@Jez What's wrong with currency conversion?

Jez

it generally comes with a price tag

Cerberus

Doesn't bother me. I order stuff from England all the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus "not practical" doesn't begin to describe it. "not possible now or ever" would be a better start and still an understatement

Jez

14:38

and it just irritating because i have to convert it

Cerberus

@Jez Negligible.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 So?

Jez

anyway, if you're arguing that it doesnt make much difference then i dont see how that's a point in favour of independence.

im arguing that it's bad for business on both sides of the border

Cerberus

@Jez It is done automatically on bigger websites.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So while discussing flaws with existing systems of government it's probably better to avoid straying into pure fantasy and instead concentrate on systems that involve human leaders

Jez

@Cerberus not on smaller websites.

Cerberus

14:39

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It can be relevant to consider what one's ultimate principles are first.

@Jez Anyway, it is not important. It doesn't hold me back in the least.

I've even once ordered stuff from China.

Jez

The fact is, Scotland has been happy and relatively well-off since it became part of the union, for 100s of years. The reason this is on the agenda now is because 1) there are some particularly repulsive nationalists around and 2) Blair gave them a parliament.

Cerberus

An external hard drive.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's basically a distraction. "Democracy is bad because X... if only God were here and forming the government"...

Jez

and so it comes back to my bemusement at the utter randomness we have in calling areas 'countries'

Cerberus

@Jez I agree that they are probably nuts. But stopping them would cause so much trouble that perhaps it's better to just let them go ahead.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Nah.

Jez

14:41

cause trouble, my ass :-)

name what trouble it would cause

Cerberus

@Jez The expense of resupplying your aircraft with bombs?

That will be millions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez, the thing is, the current status of national borders is just what fell out after we took Europe and stirred it all up in WWII.

Jez

the bombing would take 5 minutes

million is nothing compared to the whole defence buget

budget

Cerberus

It's still a waste.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 look on a map. if there were ever a logical country unit, it's the main British isle. it's about the right size, and they already speak the same language - that which normally divides countries.

Cerberus

14:42

Not to mention the SRA that would soon rise up.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Sure, they speak the same language now

Robusto

@Cerberus Braveheart would lead them. Freeeeeeeedommmmmm!!!

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 other countries with more arbitrary borders (eg. france) ironically dont have this nationalism thing going on. germany CELEBRATED reunion, for god's sake.

Cerberus

@Jez If you were a Scottish nationalist youth, and your parliament had just been blown to pieces, what would you do? Yes, send people to plant bombs all over London forever.

@Robusto Yes, that too!

Jez

@Cerberus the IRA did that to unify Ireland. they failed miserable.

*miserably

Cerberus

14:44

@Jez France does have it. They just suppressed a bit more.

@Jez But did it cause trouble?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez they celebrated REUNION, not forced union. They were divided against their will. But Germany is also pretty random; there have been many iterations of that particular "state".

Jez

@Cerberus and it doesnt really give france problems. so, my idea of suppressing it would seem to be a good one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So let's face it. It's arbitrary and based on the whims of the populace. So, if some of those people want to pick a different arbitrary whim, who are you to stop them?

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yeah, the germans saw that union was a good thing. i just think it sucks that jingoistic demagogues up north can brainwash morons into thinking that it isn't.

Cerberus

@Jez Yes, you may be able to suppress it without too much trouble. But, if you use too much force, I can guarantee that it will cause you great, great trouble.

Jez

14:46

@MrShinyandNew安宇 a rational person who thinks stopping them is a good idea.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez You never hold an opinion just part way, do you? You always have to crank it up to 11.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez france actually has quite a few problems with minority peoples far from Paris, they just suppress them ruthlessly

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs They don't bomb them.

Jez

@Cerberus As I've said in other places; if they get independence, they have to put Blair's mug on the flag.

he gave them it on a platter.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus at least there's that

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:47

@Jez Actually a lot of Germans were unhappy with the reunion at the time because of the economic shambles that East Germany was in. It didn't exactly go smoothly or problem-free

Cerberus

@Jez Yeah that may have been foolish.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 so? they didnt oppose it and try and maintain independence; look at the worldwide celebrations when the wall came down

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez you are conflating two different ideas.

Was there world-wide celebration when England subdued Scotland?

Cerberus

Spain, Belgium, and England are the messiest countries in Europe at the moment.

With respect to nationalism.

Jez

England isnt messy; the UK is messy :-)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:48

The other nations couldn't care less about East Germany. What they cared about was the fall of the communist empire

JSBᾶngs

belgium really has no reason to exist; it was literally created by diplomatic fiat

i completely support the idea of independence for its two halves

Cerberus

@Jez Right. I always call your entire country England.

JSBᾶngs

much more than scottish independence

Jez

@JSBᾶngs where do you live?

JSBᾶngs

@Jez middle of the US

Cerberus

14:49

@JSBᾶngs Perhaps. But it would be a bit of a mess.

Robusto

Free Dorset!!!

Jez

@JSBᾶngs ok, so hand on heart, how would you feel if various states wanted to secede? on the basis of jingoistic nationalism?

JSBᾶngs

@Jez more power to them.

Jez

i doubt most Americans would agree with you there.

Robusto

Wait, I don't think he really had his hand on his heart. If he did, how could he have typed that so fast?

JSBᾶngs

14:50

i would be happy to split the US into ~5 countries

Jez

@JSBᾶngs you just love red tape, dont you :-)

JSBᾶngs

@Jez of course most americans disagree. we did have a little tiff over just that issue 150 years ago

Cerberus

@Jez I think it's silly; but the question is rather, what are you prepared to do to stop them? As for me, not much, because trying to stop them is often destructive.

Jez

having a ton of countries is just an administrative PITA.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez You just have no idea how much red tape exists in the US internally... it'd probably IMPROVE if the US split up

JSBᾶngs

14:50

@Jez mostly i don't think that red tape is a good enough reason to fight a war and/or suppress other people's nationalism

Robusto

@Jez How many countries in a ton? And is that metric?

Cerberus

@Jez Agreed.

Jez

@Cerberus i'm not in charge, but if i were, i think you can guess what i would do.

within 10 years we would be a unified Britain again.

Cerberus

Yes, and that's silly too.

Jez

scottish nationalism would have been extirpated, and we wouldnt have to fucking hear about it every day anymore

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:51

@Jez So you are seriously saying that you'd condone violence to keep Scotland in England

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 depends on whether scottish people put up any physical resistance

Cerberus

@Jez The blood of martyrs is the seed of the church, or how goes the saying?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You actually support killing people because they disagree with you and might make it harder for you to order fucking products from Edinburgh.

Cerberus

The more you oppress it, the stronger nationalism becomes.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Glasgow.

JSBᾶngs

14:52

@MrShinyandNew安宇 thank you for putting this into perspective

Cerberus

Haha.

Jez

@Cerberus that is nonsense.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Is it? Look at Chechnya

Cerberus

@Jez Nope, it's true on average.

Jez

i've quoted you 2 or 3 examples already of nationalism getting weaker because it is opposed.

yet you ignore them.

JSBᾶngs

14:53

@Cerb there is an inflection point. if you suppress something really really well it will eventually go away.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 i told you to look at Chechnya

user19161

@jsb It turns out that question has already been asked at programmers.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 is its nationalism now stronger or weaker than it was?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Sure, killing every single chechnyan has been an effective way of keeping them in line. Now instead of russian soldiers dying in a pointless battle in chechnya, there are russian civilians dying in terrorist attacks in the rest of russia.

Cerberus

@Jez Where? Moderate opposition can work, but anything as strong as violence usually only strengthens it. Unless you're prepared to depopulate entire regions like Sadat.

@JSBᾶngs Yes, if you have the strength and internal support to pull it off. Which is certainly not the case in England.

Jez

14:55

@Cerberus well, then. i wish Westminster government had had the balls to put up moderate opposition.

kiamlaluno

@Cerberus Hello, Cerby.

Cerberus

@Jez I may not disagree with you there. But you shouldn't be talking of bombing, that's just silly.

Jez

and i ask the question again: what would happen, exactly, if Cameron simply denied them a referendum?

Cerberus

@kiamlaluno Hi!

Jez

I say Cameron is playing right into the SNP's hands.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:56

I mean, you characterize this whole debate as a dick-sizing contest. But when bodies start dropping then everyone gets involved. And all so that you can feel a chubby feeling in your pants because your side managed to kill enough Scots to prevent the secession this time.

Cerberus

@Jez Yes, that might be a prudent step. Or postpone it again and again.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez There are international laws, that the UK is party to, which would come into effect if they tried to prevent a secession in this way.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 you dont know what it's like being English. i presume you can feel proud of your nationality, but every day we're basically being told by certain people that we should feel ashamed of our nationality, and to top it off we have our neighbours slagging Britain off because we're so 'evil'

it gets extremely tiresome. and i get jealous of countries with a united populace.

user19161

@kiamlaluno I see your blue username!

Cerberus

@Rob: Did I mention that you were the best? Reading a single page right now!

@Jez Why ashamed?

kiamlaluno

14:58

@WillHunting Sssh… That is a secret.

Cerberus

I like England very much.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez i actually sympathize with you here.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew安宇 lol. like the ones Russia abides by?

Cerberus

But personally I wouldn't oppose Friesland's independence if they were serious about it. Which they are not, because they are poor.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez But so what? People slag Britain, people slag America, people slag Canada. Personally, I like Canada and being Canadian. But I would be ashamed of my country if we killed people to prevent Quebec from leaving.

Jez

14:59

@Cerberus the British flag, here, tends to be associated with xenophobia, racism, and bigotry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez So you're saying that Russia is a good role model?

Jez

except for certain state occasions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez WHAT?

JSBᾶngs

@Jez sort of like the american flag in some places. or, worse, the confederate flag

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