English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt E. Эллен

16:00

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 oh :(

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен maybe I'm being harsh.

Matt E. Эллен

I fully expect a hero's journey.

Kit Z. Fox

Is that Stephenson?

Oh, no it's not.

Matt E. Эллен

I assume it was more analytical of our current capitalist consumerist culture

and our desires to escape reality

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I hate the strange new word 'xenophobia' because I don't know what it means.

tchrist

16:03

I don't bother reading Stephenson anymore.

Kit Z. Fox

That's why I was asking.

I keep thinking I should give him another try.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен It has a bit of that, but doesn't really do much with it.

Kit Z. Fox

It's like Critchon. I have read three of his books and every time, I'm disappointed and I say "never again".

tchrist

Did you read Gibson’s latest, The Peripheral?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ah

Mitch

16:04

@KitZ.Fox join the 21st century man. Don't bother with the full moon, get your blood in bulk from the meat distributor. Then do your potion boiling on the new moon with no worries.

Kit Z. Fox

Who is the 21st century man? I already have a husband...

Mitch

@tchrist so many words. So many.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен I mean the book wasn't a total waste. But, like The Magicians, I felt it should do more.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ok. I won't get my hopes up!

Kit Z. Fox

g2g bai!

Matt E. Эллен

16:06

CU

M. Haster

hi guys!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I have to go too. code to check in today, before I go on vacation. bye

Mitch

21st c schizoid man is not always the best choice

Matt E. Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 bye

hi, M. Haster

Mitch

And Bon voyage

M. Haster

16:08

so this chat is for people who are grammar enthusiasts and the like?

Mitch

Sort of

For example I'm enthusiastic about VSO word order, but OSV makes me cringe

M. Haster

hmm ok

don't really know what that means heh

Matt E. Эллен

That hat Mitch wears

maybe

or is that SOV?

M. Haster

would any of you to care to help me with what I am writing?

sorry to be so forward

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Son of a vitch?

Mitch

16:11

Word order

In linguistics, word order typology is the study of the order of the syntactic constituents of a language, and how different languages can employ different orders. Correlations between orders found in different syntactic sub-domains are also of interest. The primary word orders that are of interest are the constituent order of a clause – the relative order of subject, object, and verb; the order of modifiers (adjectives, numerals, demonstratives, possessives, and adjuncts) in a noun phrase; and the order of adverbials. Some languages use relatively restrictive word order, often relying on the order...

Matt E. Эллен

@M.Haster what are you writing?

M. Haster

my cover letter

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon clearly a Spanish speaker

M. Haster

want to send it out today

Mitch

For what kind of job?

terdon

16:13

@MattE.Эллен I was thinking transylvanian.

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon oh! well, that makes more sense

M. Haster

but since every one I talk to insist on proofreaders to look over my work

I'm now doubting mysef

myself

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен how dare you

M. Haster

research manager position

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch which are you? Subject or object?

Mitch

16:14

How long is the letter?

@MattE.Эллен I am the ergative

Goo goo ga joob

@M.Haster sure. Copy it here and we'll see.

Matt E. Эллен

or use pastebin.com is it's long

Mitch

What country is the job in?

@KitZ.Fox in the Soviet Union reading material is supposed to challenge you.

Matt E. Эллен

In the Soviet Union challenges are supposed to read you!

Mitch

16:33

They can read you like a book

Soviet nostalgia ain't what it used to be...or else.

M. Haster

ok

question on this sentence

I'm applying to a developmental lab

what do you think about this sentence

I believe it is essential for our continued understanding of how crucial, and malleable, our developmental brain can be.

should i replace crucial with dynamic?

anyone there?

terdon

@M.Haster Yes. "Crucial and malleable" doesn't make sense. There's also no such thing as a "developmental brain", do you mean developing brain?

And you're (presumably) applying to a developmental biology lab, not a developmental lab

M. Haster

i mean the brain at the developmental time in our lives

developmental psychology

terdon

@M.Haster There's no such thing as a "developmental time"

M. Haster

yes i mean adolescence

terdon

16:40

@M.Haster Yes, that's fine.

M. Haster

whats fine?

terdon

@M.Haster Adolescence is far more specific than development.

@M.Haster Developmental psychology. But not developmental brain.

M. Haster

but i think thats assumed in this context

terdon

No it isn't. It's just bad grammar.

Developmental biology studies the developing organism, the period of development.

M. Haster

oh

if i am talking about 5-21 year olds

i don't want to be using adolescent

thats why i used developmental..maybe another word?

the period where the bran changes the most

something like that

*brain

UNL | Developmental Brain Laboratory

hah

??

terdon

16:46

@M.Haster Ugh, that's awful. Just goes to say that biologists suck at basic language comprehension. Wow.

That said, I am a biologist, so I should know.

M. Haster

so what should i do? use it or not

terdon

To me, developmental brain makes absolutely no sense. I would call that the developing brain, or at least, the brain during development.

Mitch

@terdon dude, so harsh! He's not a native speaker.

terdon

@Mitch Dude, he's a professor at an American university called either Dr. Dennis Molfese or Mildred Francis Thompson. Pretty sure that's a native.

cb3.unl.edu/dbrainlab

M. Haster

but thats a generalized term for 'developing brain' throughout all of our lives

I'm talking about a specific period

where its most malleable, etc

terdon

16:48

@M.Haster If you don't know these terms well enough to use them clearly and aren't applying for a scientific position, why are you trying to throw jargon into your letter?

And no, the developing brain would be understood to mean the brain of an organism that is still developing. Of course, developing in this context tends to mean unborn, not just young.

Hmm. Maybe there's a specialized usage of developmental to mean "during infancy and young adulthood* as opposed to the classic biological meaning of the term. That would make more sense than plain old ignorance. You might want to ask the folks at Cognitive Sciences about that.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah a "developmental brain" is a brain which is developmental, which doesn't make sense. people go through developmental stages, for example, people are not themselves developmental

M. Haster

hmm i see

Matt E. Эллен

I suppose a "developmental officer" is a person who guides development. So you might say a developmental brain is a brain that guides development, but that still doesn't make sense

M. Haster

why does crucial, malleable not make sense?

suggestions for improvement?

terdon

@M.Haster Not sure what you mean. There's nothing wrong with it, I may just be lacking context. But why would you chose to link crucial and malleable?

Færd

16:57

Hi! Is minty an adverb in minty fresh?

> He whispered, his breath minty fresh.

terdon

For some reason, it seems clearer to me like this: I believe it is essential for our continued understanding of how the developing brain is both crucial and malleable.

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd I'd see it as two adjectives. "He said with his big ugly mouth"

oh, I see the word order is different to what I was expecting

I guess it is an adverb then

Færd

I tried to see it that way; it resisted.

@MattE.Эллен Yeah, probably.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Even though it modifies the adjective? Isn't it an adjectival phrase or something?

Matt E. Эллен

@M.Haster I agree with terdon. There's not enough context to know what you mean. Why is it crucial? Why is malleability related to how crucial it is?

@terdon exactly because it modifies the adjective

terdon

17:01

Duh!

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Færd

Is it a fixed phrase? Have you heard minty fresh before?

Matt E. Эллен

yes

it's well used in toothpaste adverts, and maybe in chewing gum adverts

Færd

Well then that explains the oddity. Thanks.

Matt E. Эллен

no probs!

Shafizadeh

17:14

Is this correct? "Why cannot genymotion download an ova file?"

terdon

It would be better as "Why can genymotion not download an ova file" or "Why can't genymotion download an ova file?" Don't ask me why, though :)

Shafizadeh

ah ok :-))

Is this correct? "to test my written applications I need to run them by an emulator."

Matt E. Эллен

17:32

in not by.

"run them by" would imply the emulator is sentient

for example "I'll run my calculations by my professor, to make sure they make sense"

Shafizadeh

So this? "to test my written applications I need to run them in an emulator.""

Matt E. Эллен

yes

Shafizadeh

thx

Matt E. Эллен

no probs

ucha

hey guys. can we write a sentence and expect to get feedback about the faults while asking the question?

terdon

17:37

@ucha Not really. Proof reading questions are off topic here.

And if you're wondering if something is "correct" in English, you will probably get a better reception in English Language Learners.

ucha

@terdon thanks. i will ask there probably.

Shafizadeh

Is this correct? "each of them is almost 200MB that should be download"

Færd

18:04

Each of them is almost 200 MB and should be downloaded.

Although there probably is a better way to arrange the information, depending on the context.

Cerberus

At the very least download → downloaded.

terdon

18:20

@Cerberus Depends. You could also say "The file is a 100MB download". You can use download as a noun these days.

Cerberus

@terdon Yes, OK.

What I meant was the smallest change that would make it acceptable.

Færd

You can do that with many verbs, can't you?

She's a good flirt

Cerberus

You can often noun a verb in English.

Yes.

Færd

Or verb a noun. Heh.

Cerberus

But it will usually be (very) informal.

Exactly.

Rathony

18:24

@MετάEd Sorry, I just saw your message. Please ping me if you continue to discuss the issue at chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/40642/…

Mitch

19:25

@terdon ?? He was maybe sending an application to them. But M. Haster is not them.

terdon

19:55

@Mitch oh, I wasn't describing @M.Haster! That would have been way beyond harsh and we'll into assholery. I was describing the people who chose to name their lab "developmental brain".

Mitch

20:09

@terdon Oh. Oh! I thought we were critiquing M. Haster's application, and had no idea how you found that link anyway.

Standing alone, yes 'the developmental brain' make my head go sideways. An object (like the brain) can't be developmental.

But a 'developmental (brain laboratory)' isn't all bad.

Matt E. Эллен

wouldn't that mean the lab is at some stage of development?

or, what would that mean?

Mitch

20:24

a lab about developmental things.

brain as an attributive noun.

terdon

@Mitch no, no, no, I'd never berate a pineapple for their grasp of English. I've been the pineapple way to often for that.

Mitch

@terdon I don't know, pineapple grasp berating is the next olympic sport.

Matt E. Эллен

20:50

come to my brain lab. There's some ... tests I'd like to run

Cerberus

Am I a bad person, feeling sympathetic with the army committing a coup d'état?

Erdogan is bad.

But this...I'm not sure what to think.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен @KitZ.Fox used to work in a brain lab. a mouse brain lab. or so I'm led to believe. maybe I'm a brain in a vat in a brain lab, thinking about kit putting rats in a vat in a brain lab

@Cerberus What? is the real world falling apart?

er, falling apart more?

Cerberus

Depends on how you look at it.

Turkey is a cycle of coups d'état by the army.

I thought it had ended, but no.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…