English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MetaEd

22:01

Damn synesthesia. I'm always confusing idioms with smells.

(I was actually joking about this question: english.stackexchange.com/questions/55754)

aedia λ

traffic leaves delirium rampant

tickled lemurs: downright risible

three lions devoured roughage

Matt Эллен

turles lick dirty railings

MetaEd

backronyms for tl;dr?

Matt Эллен

oh yes! it's a game

we played the ctfd game a while ago

aedia λ

this lousy dependence! reject!

Matt Эллен

22:07

triumvirates lack democratic rigour

aedia λ

I'm addicted.

Matt Эллен

:D

it is somewhat compelling

MetaEd

the lift don't run

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew said it was harder but every time I think it's too hard I keep coming up with another one...

Matt Эллен

those lazy dim rogues

that lad didn't realise

MetaEd

22:08

try licking different readers

aedia λ

torturous locutions do regret

MetaEd

bite the wax tadpole

aedia λ

What?

MetaEd

sorry, got overexcited. went away for a minute but I'm back now

Matt Эллен

grab the brass ring in two days!

they lunge down roads

theatrical limbo dance race

thimbles let danger ride

tiny little dry roaches

aedia λ

22:11

tipsy ligatures don't render

Matt Эллен

Thomas laughed; Dawn ran

MetaEd

Time lost; did read

Matt Эллен

:D

aedia λ

giggles

MetaEd

My work here is done.

Matt Эллен

22:12

indeed

aedia λ

@MattЭллен I keep trying to say this one in my head and stumbling over it

Matt Эллен

how so?

MetaEd

What's the word for an unvocalized/silent speech impediment?

Matt Эллен

I can't think of one

aedia λ

@MattЭллен I can't say "llimbo" or the two "ce" words in a row I guess

Matt Эллен

22:13

mental stutter, maybe

@aediaλ interesting

aedia λ

I guess I also like to think of these as tongue-twisters that you would say several times, for the ones with interesting words, so I'm mentally repeating "torturous locutions do regret torturous locutions..." or "theatrical limbo dance rants theatrical limbo dance..." <- see there I just screwed it up and didn't fix it

MetaEd

"Vote again in 1 hour". Damn.

@aediaλ But it works!

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I think I prefer the rants :)

aedia λ

@MattЭллен terrific lovely delightful rants?

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I'd expect nothing else from a unicorn :D

aedia λ

22:23

torpid lethargy; didn't rouse

Gosh I can't stop.

Matt Эллен

turgid licentious demonic rants

aedia λ

That was the other first word I was thinking :)

Matt Эллен

slow and swollen

aedia λ

turn lights down. repose.

Matt Эллен

tumescence lingers; didn't remove

aedia λ

22:27

timid lisping digital reconnaissance

Matt Эллен

hehehe, that's a funny one. makes me think of a lisping camera on legs

tried learning; don't remember

I need a nice comment before I vote to close this guy's question:

0

Q: Best Grammer/Punctuation Primer

I was taught spelling and punctuation very poorly at school (only one lesson) and I'm hitting my late 30's, school is now a long way off and I find my self writing more and more documents for work. Essentially I would like to put an end to my shotgun comma habit. What single book would you rec...

aedia λ

tried loud drunken regurgitation?

No wait that's not a nice comment.

Matt Эллен

I don't think he'd like it :D

MetaEd

@MattЭллен I am afraid I can't concentrate properly after this one. Tongue lingers ... touch lower ... I keep getting distracted at the semicolon.

Matt Эллен

Martha's nailed it

@MetaEd the lasting distraction rules

aedia λ

22:33

@MattЭллен Yep, she's got it already.

MetaEd

Don't we have a list of recommended references somewhere?

It would be good to offer a pointer even if we don't have an interesting answer.

aedia λ

Hmm. I can only think of this question:

47

Q: What are your favorite English language tools?

This will prevent myself from asking an obvious, silly question again. What are the English language tools you found most useful? I found Corpus Concordance English extremely useful for looking up collocations. Please, one tool per answer.

learning resources esl beginner

Matt Эллен

I was thinking of the same one

Cerberus

@Robusto You're welcome.

aedia λ

tremulous labored desperate respiration

^ that one also gives me the unvocalized speech impediment thingamajig

Cerberus

22:47

Ehh...

Matt Эллен

Tomorrow's lunch done ready

hi @Cerberus :)

aedia λ

39 mins ago, by MetaEd

What's the word for an unvocalized/silent speech impediment?

MetaEd

1

Q: How do you pronounce PIPEDA?

I'm wondering how to pronounce the acronym for Canada's Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. PIP eh duh? pie PEED uh? other?

pronunciation

This would be close for reference ... if there were a single short answer in a reference. Seems like it should still be closed though. A word which doesn't yet have a pronunciation in any kind of reference is either a close for reference or a too localized. yes?

Matt Эллен

I don't know. I didn't like the question when I read it, but I can't always figure out why.

too localised might be acceptable here.

aedia λ

I didn't like it either but there was a good enough answer. But it does seem rather specific and unanswerable (like there is no authoritative answer, nor can there be, if the thing isn't in common use)

so maybe too localized

MetaEd

22:56

"How to pronounce" is not a question about phonetics and phonology. I think it's off topic.

Or reference if it IS in the dictionary.

That is: we say in the FAQ that we want to answer questions about pronunciation, but I don't think we mean "how to pronounce" one-offs. We want to answer questions about word pronunciation in English that require an expert answer.

So ... off topic will be my vote.

aedia λ

I don't think asking how to pronounce something is automatically off topic. For example, we have questions under pronunciation on SQL and GUI...

MetaEd

@aediaλ To your point, I don't think there was a good enough answer. There was a correct answer, but a correct answer does not mean the question is on topic. "How do you spell topic?" could be answered correctly.

aedia λ

...but most of those that remain open aren't bad, I think; the words or phrases, even if specific, are well-known enough to have an answer about what speakers actually do.

MetaEd

@aediaλ I would say those are also either general reference or too localized, depending on whether there's an accepted answer. But yes, there could easily be a good question about pronunciation: a question that requires some real expertise to answer.

Matt Эллен

Yeah. it's a common type of question. I think if enough people are having trouble, or are in disagreement, then a plain pronunciation question is fine, but a new initialism like PIPEDA, that might not even be an acronym yet is probably too localised

aedia λ

23:08

@MetaEd Yes, that's a good point. I suppose I meant it had a correct answer, and I was considering its on/off topicness in the light of the idea that it was at least possible to provide an answer that was more than a dictionary lookup or something like that.

Matt Эллен

'moff to bed!

aedia λ

@MattЭллен Night! Sleep well! Don't let the tl;drs bite!

MetaEd

I am learning as I go that a big part of whether a question should be here is whether it requires an expert to answer.

It's kind of become my touchstone.

But I'm quite open to the possibility that I'm wrong about that. Counterarguments?

aedia λ

@MetaEd I think that's a good way to think about it.

I think it's not the only thing that matters. Non-experts can still often provide a good answer just by having a better idea where to look.

Vitaly

Can anybody think of questions that a) can be asked by non-native speakers b) can only be answered by native speakers?

Theta30

23:16

experts can answer any type of questions

Vitaly

(I'm trying to wrap my head around that expert thing; and I am failing simply because the whole notion of expert is too vague. I mean, for a non-native speaker like myself pretty much any native speaker of a sufficiently popular dialect of English would be an expert, no?)

Theta30

no, that is not expert in my books. An expert is someone who has deep, rigurous knowledge of English.

aedia λ

@Vitaly Non-native speakers can always provide evidence of native speaker use (the same resources I have access to as a native speaker) so I can't think of a question that can only be answered by a native speaker, no. I think in some cases it may be faster for a native speaker, especially because they could answer based on their experience or what sounds right to them.

I think it's unlikely that a native speaker grammaticality judgment would be truly required to answer a question, and providing references is probably better received in most cases.

29

Q: Central Pennsylvanian English speakers: what are the limitations on the "needs washed" construction?

In the Central Pennsylvania dialect of English (and possibly elsewhere), the following construction is possible: This car needs washed. (=needs to be washed) The room needs cleaned. (=needs to be cleaned) It appears that, if a verb like needs is followed by a passive construction in...

verbs syntax dialects

Cerberus

Hi!

MetaEd

@aediaλ I agree that non-experts may have a good answer for a basic reference question of pronunciation or spelling, etc., or may be able to say where the answer may be found. That does not make such questions on topic.

Vitaly

23:30

@aediaλ — That is not always the case due to lack of resources accessible to non-native speakers. E.g. this question of mine.

I really don't know any resources I could use, as a non-native speaker, to research Ugandan English.

Other than native Ugandan English speakers.

Cerberus

Oh, haha, that question.

MetaEd

@Theta30 Experts can answer any type of question. But that doesn't mean the question, or answer, are on topic here.

aedia λ

@Vitaly the needs washed question is an example of one where it would help to have native speakers from a particular place, but it doesn't mean that non-native speakers can't answer as well as, for example, I can (I am not from that region).

Cerberus

@MetaEd By the way, are you synaesthetic?

MetaEd

@Cerberus Referring to my comment earlier? Only barely. I definitely get a visible flash in my vision when I hear a sudden noise.

aedia λ

23:34

@Vitaly In that particular case, I don't think it's because you're a NNS; it's because you didn't know anything about Ugandan English, nor did you know where to start researching dialects. I would be in the same boat.

Cerberus

@MetaEd Hmm is that the same phenomenon, neurologically?

Vitaly

So that basically makes native Ugandan English speakers experts?

Cerberus

There is no fixed, absolute definition of "expert".

So yes and no.

aedia λ

@Vitaly That is, I might know a few places to start now, after a lot of linguistics reading, but still could easily have a similar question that I would be unable to answer on my own.

Vitaly

@Cerberus Back to square one then.

17 mins ago, by Vitaly

(I'm trying to wrap my head around that expert thing; and I am failing simply because the whole notion of expert is too vague. I mean, for a non-native speaker like myself pretty much any native speaker of a sufficiently popular dialect of English would be an expert, no?)

Cerberus

23:36

Oh, jinx!

@Vitaly I mean, I disagree!

Let me think of some argument first.

Vitaly

Oh, noes!

Cerberus

You are supposed to let me read the LW article first.

That usually inspires me.

@aedia: Are you synaesthetic?

In fact I'm going to Google for synaesthetic websites. Why have I never done that before?

MetaEd

@Cerberus No idea. Why do you ask?

Cerberus

@MetaEd I heard you mentioned it, and the subject interests me.

But I realized you probably weren't serious.

synaesthesia.com/en/synitest/weekdays

Vitaly

@Cerberus — Don't you remember all those synaesthetic websites in the 90s? You would load one and get assaulted by all kinds of whistles, GIF animations, and what not.

Cerberus

23:42

@Vitaly It's always like that in my head. I barely noticed.

@Vitaly Incidentally, are you suggesting that advertising on the Internet got less flashy?

(I wouldn't know since I have been using Adblock for so long.)

Vitaly

@Cerberus — I don't know, we all learned to ignore them.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Nope. Not that I know of.

Cerberus

@Vitaly You really block them mentally such that you don't notice them at all any more? Impressive. I can block things fairly well, but...

@aediaλ Ah OK.

@Vitaly Oh shit I was too late to click on your link.

MetaEd

@Cerberus Right, that was all jocular. It's always fun until somebody gets hurt.

Cerberus

By the way, the test is fun.

I have to pick colours from a palette for the weekdays.

@MetaEd And even then...

If it is a soft landing on the buttocks...

Vitaly

23:48

@Cerberus i.imgur.com/r4Qco.jpg (and it's a lake)

MetaEd

@Cerberus Now you're just being a tease.

:-)

Vitaly

@Cerberus — Had to fix it some more. ^^

aedia λ

@Cerberus Unless failing to type my numbers correctly because I put letters instead is part of the same thing, but I think it's just 1337sp38k gone awry.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Heh that's interesting too...

@Vitaly Hmm I'm afraid it doesn't look familiar at all, and I don't see anything that could help me. It does have the shape of a man's head with an open mouth and a snotty nose.

Vitaly

@Cerberus en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vostok At least you got the snotty nose part right.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…