English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@RegDwigнt Have you compared the English translations of The Brothers Karamazov to the original text? If so, what do you think about them? Which one's the most loyal? Which reads better in English?

Shafizadeh

@terdon thx .. I ask here because I'm kinda familiar with people in here :-)

Færd

Who's Your Favourite?

►

terdon

@Shafizadeh Fair enough

Shafizadeh

@terdon However seems there is some common people in there .. but still this room is more lovely ;-)

Cerberus

2:31 PM

blushes

Færd

I don't understand the people who laugh their heads off at all these painful fail videos. Someone gets his spine broken in half and you laugh?!

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Yeah! Stupid old people!

stops clicking

TIPS

@Færd You can never know what a man's (or a woman's) insecurities do to their personality.

Mitch

@TIPS never what? I am in suspense! What is it that they are never?

Færd

never know, I guess

Mitch

2:40 PM

tell? is it 'tell'?

TIPS

@Mitch Apparently I'm older than you.

Mitch

how about speak? That would be way more interesting.

TIPS

How 'bout no?

Mitch

@TIPS surely in mental age.

@TIPS NOt yet. Wait for it...

TIPS

Or typing-al-ness age.

terdon

2:41 PM

@Mitch Pfft. Both my kids are older than you in mental age and neither of them has even been conceived yet.

Færd

:D

Mitch

@Færd It's a cross-cultural universal. a person slipping and falling is as hilarious in Iceland as it is in Papua New Guinea

@terdon ha ha ha. wait...

Færd

@Mitch Well, at least if you can't feel the pain they went through, then that's not good.

terdon

@Færd You should read Heinlein's Stranger in a strange land. Most of what we consider funny is actually sad when you think about it.

TIPS

And people reinvented the wheel.

Færd

2:47 PM

@terdon That's funny.

Thanks for the suggestion btw.

Mitch

@TIPS well yeah. one wheel is sorta pointless

TIPS

@Mitch Depends on how you look at it

Mitch

@TIPS I'm pretty sure the point of a wheel is that it looks the same at every angle. That's physics

TIPS

@Mitch What? Are you kidding me?

Mitch

TIPS

2:54 PM

So it's settled. Once again, physics is wrong.

Matt E. Эллен

it's not wrong, it's just an approximation. ;)

TIPS

I should prolly look for an SMBC comic now.

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon I'm pretty sure he asserted that laughter is pain, not laughter is sadness.

TIPS

terdon

@KitZ.Fox I read it as neither. That laughter, or rather, humor, is a defense mechanism against the sadness in the world. That the things we laugh at are actually sad and we laugh because it's the only way of dealing with them.

Mr_Green

3:03 PM

@RegDwigнt any help with it?

please

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox especially if you have a hernia

terdon

@Mr_Green If you insist on using this chat room as a help desk for English, you will at least need to provide us with some context. Explain what you want to say with the phrase you are using. The one you gave simply doesn't make much sense so we can't help you fix it unless you explain what you think it says.

Mr_Green

5 hours ago, by Mr_Green

"Click here to see winnings and nominated categories"

we are screening mad max movie in our office

Matt E. Эллен

Smiling is submission. So laughter is ... acquiescence?

Mr_Green

so it is just mail to everyone giving details about the film

related to oscar

terdon

3:16 PM

@Mr_Green OK. And what is the email supposed to say? Winning is a word that describes what you have won. Usually in terms of money. For example "I played roulette yesterday and now I will collect my winnings"

Mr_Green

oh ok. The mail was supposed to give some details about the movie like imdb rating, oscar awards and at last the above sentence.

MετάEd

@KitZ.Fox Thanks, yes. I was in the next county.

Mr_Green

to know more

MετάEd

@Mr_Green Then you might mean "Click here to see Academy awards and nominations".

Mr_Green

@MετάEd ok thanks :)

sounds better

MετάEd

3:25 PM

@tchrist Gildor Radner?

Shafizadeh

What's the meaning of this? "I swear Shafizadeh has a horde of groupies out there :p"

Matt E. Эллен

It means the person thinks you have a horde of groupies out there

Shafizadeh

Is there any alternative for this part? "... horde of groupies out there"

Matt E. Эллен

large number of groupies out there

horde of fanatic followers out there

horde of groupies outside

groupies in a horde out there

out there a horde of groupies

I could go on...

terdon

What is it with trolls and hordes anyway?

Shafizadeh

3:34 PM

Well I can translate it now. But still this really is without meaning for me.

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon do trolls horde? how do you fit more than one under a bridge?

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Ah, you're right. Maybe I was thinking of hoard :P

Matt E. Эллен

Dragons have hoards. Trolls have clubs and a fear of the sun

terdon

You're so conventional.

Matt E. Эллен

I know. I can't keep away from those nuns

terdon

3:40 PM

Ouch

:)

Damn that was bad. I'm still chuckling.

Cerberus

Matt, always the nunnizer.

Shafizadeh

Which one is correct? "is" or "has"? I'm trying to introduce "Jedi":
- A person who is trained to guard peace and justice in the universe.
- A person who has trained to guard peace and justice in the universe.

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon :D if the pun hurts, you know it's working

@Shafizadeh both. I would go with is, but either is correct because they both describe a Jedi

@Cerberus I like the simplicity of their black and white lives

Shafizadeh

@MattE.Эллен Ok both are correct. But are they identical too? I mean "is" and "has" have the same meaning in this case?

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен Uhuh.

@Shafizadeh The reason that both is and has are possible is that train is special verb: it can have two meanings.

Shafizadeh

3:47 PM

ah ..

Cerberus

> I am training (myself) to become a better tennis player {intransitive or reflexive verb} → I have trained.

Matt E. Эллен

@Shafizadeh no, they mean different things. is means that the training is done to them. has means that they have done the training.

Shafizadeh

I'm trying to say this: "a member of the mystical knightly order in the Star Wars films, trained to guard peace and justice in the universe."

Cerberus

> She is training me to become a better tennis player {transitive verb} → she has trained me / I am trained.

Færd

@terdon And sometimes if we stop laughing we may realize that there's other ways to deal with them.

Shafizadeh

3:48 PM

@Cerberus Ohh I see

@MattE.Эллен got it .. thx

Færd

Me, I had to stop laughing to feel the pain.

MετάEd

4:07 PM

@Mitch Are those like apostromones?

Mitch

4:34 PM

@MετάEd Related to metonymanemone

V0ight

can anyone explain why there are so many lurkers that create accounts just to post inane and nonsenical answers? Is this all just some sort of conspiracy, or spambots, or what? I just don't get it.

Matt E. Эллен

just trolls trolling

V0ight

they all seem to come from foreign countries and have horrible grammar and spelling. It can't just be a coincidence.

terdon

Of course it's not. Everyone knows foreigners can't spell and are all a bunch of spammers.

Where are you from again?

V0ight

I'm from Serbia. how about you?

terdon

4:44 PM

@V0ight Well, that would make you a foreigner everywhere except Serbia, wouldn't it?

I'm just objecting to your lumping spammers and "foreigners" together.

V0ight

did I claim otherwise?

terdon

2 mins ago, by V0ight

they all seem to come from foreign countries and have horrible grammar and spelling. It can't just be a coincidence.

V0ight

I was speaking in the sense of non-native English countries

terdon

And I was overreacting to an assumed slight that, it seems, wasn't intended. Let's start over.

Hi, I'm terdon! :)

Mitch

@terdon how dare you

V0ight

4:47 PM

meh, I'm not intending to troll, it's just what I've noticed, and I find it strange that so many want to create accounts just to post something that they have no knowledge of

terdon

@V0ight They're probably bots.

@Mitch IKR?

And the rest are drive by users, used to forums where anything goes.

Mitch

here's my guess. random people who have never heard of ELU do a google search for 'i want a word for duh'.

terdon

yup

Mitch

first hit is 'd'oh on ELU

then they post their question thinking ELU is just like yahoo answers or reddit

@terdon foreign NNS bots.

terdon

@Mitch Probably dirty as well. And taking our jobs and shit.

Mitch

4:49 PM

@terdon ha ha. jinx. I can't type what you're thinking fast enough

terdon

:)

Mitch

@terdon ha ha. dirty.

turns to wipe face

hides shame behind shit-eating grin

terdon

@V0ight Just to clarify, neither was I. I just misinterpreted your statement (that's the problem with these dang internet chat rooms, it's easy to miss the tone) and came on harder than I intended. My apologies.

@Mitch No, actually, I won't touch that one. Too easy.

V0ight

no problem, anyway have a good one

Mitch

@V0ight never ascribe to malice what you can ascribe to using the word ascribe just one too many times in a sentence.

MετάEd

4:52 PM

@Mitch Is that like methamphetaphor?

Matt E. Эллен

ascribe! ascribe! my kingdom for ascribe

Mitch

I've already had a good one today already. one more and I'm past my quota

@MετάEd uppers to keep moths off your fur coat.

innit?

or is that naphthalene?

MετάEd

@Mitch You're thinking of similac.

Mitch

I'm sure you could make meth out of any of those with a little know-how

terdon

And the room is back to its regular level of makinsenseness.

Mitch

4:55 PM

@MετάEd that's what I should have been thinking of, but really I was thinking of ipecac

MετάEd

Gesundheit.

Mitch

Bless you, with your quaint foreignisms that sound like sneezing.

user208178

@Mitch that's clever but what happens when he moves to a straight surface?

terdon

He's in for a bumpy ride.

user208178

:)

Mitch

4:57 PM

@Arrowfar the same thing as a regular bike on the curvy surface

They went to a lot of work making those weird bike wheels and weird surface. It's not like you can go get groceries with that bicycle.

user208178

yeah.

Mitch

speaking of groceries, I should eat some.

terdon

@Mitch Well, maybe just after a big earthquake.

Mitch

@terdon haha. gulp.

terdon

5:39 PM

@MattE.Эллен I don't remember if I've already asked you this. Would you say I'm sat here meaning I'm sitting here? (re this question)

Matt E. Эллен

I would probably say sat

depending on the context

I think it makes more sense to use there rather than here, though

if you're talking about someone trying to take your seat

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Either way, it's the sat I'm interested in.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah. I can't say for sure, but probably sat

terdon

Ah, no, I'm talking about sentences like, for example, I was sat there, minding my own business, when someone came up to me and pushed me down.

Matt E. Эллен

oh. still sat I think

terdon

5:43 PM

Would your parents say it? I have a feeling that it's a new thing.

And Ngrams agrees.

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Matt E. Эллен

I don't know.

probably sitting

terdon

Right.

Thanks.

Matt E. Эллен

no worries :)

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Fumble doesn't seem to think highly of your dialect:

@terdon: Given that it's a very colloquial usage, I don't suppose many of those who use it naturally give any thought to the fact that in principle to seat and to sit are different verbs. These are the kind of people who happily say I'll sit you over here, but mostly they wouldn't dream of saying I'll seat you over here. — FumbleFingers 5 mins ago

:P

Matt E. Эллен

what does he know :D

Færd

5:51 PM

Has anyone read Wallace's Infinite Jest?

Jossie Calderon

Should it be:
1. 'rhubarb' means 'Bye/Be right back' and 'cabbage' means 'Hi/How are you?'.
or
2. 'rhubarb' means 'Bye/Be right back.' and 'cabbage' means 'Hi/How are you?'.

I'm just not sure at all.

terdon

No, what should be is that you weird python types should start speaking like regular people! :P

And no, you don't want the full stops there.

Jossie Calderon

So I can type 'rhubarb' means 'Bye/Be right back' and 'cabbage' means 'Hi/How are you'?

terdon

Yes, that's how I would do it anyway. The full stop would break the sentence, even when quoted.

You could even make it clearer with:

> 'rhubarb' means 'Bye/Be right back', and 'cabbage' means 'Hi/How are you?'.

Hmm. Not sure the quotes help, actually. It might be too much to both quote and italicize. In any case, don't put a full stop after back.

Færd

This inconsistency always bugs me that when you quote an interrogative sentence you include the question mark inside the quotation marks, but with declarative sentences you leave out the period.

terdon

6:04 PM

@Færd Well, the way I see it, the ? is needed to indicate that this is a question while the . is not.

Færd

@terdon Yes, but it's an inconsistency all the same. It's a formal asymmetry.

MετάEd

@KitZ.Fox All this killing is kind of screwing with my head.

Kit Z. Fox

6:32 PM

@MετάEd Do you want to come stay with us for a while? You can't get much safer than Maine, although we do have open carry and a Republican idiot for a governor.

I think we've only ever had one "mass shooting" and that was a domestic violence thing.

user208178

hello @MετάEd @KitZ.Fox I hope you guys are well.

Kit Z. Fox

Hello @Arrowfar.

user208178

ugh. I watched the world news. It sucks.

Kit Z. Fox

I can't believe people really think that Trump will make the world better.

MετάEd

It does.

@KitZ.Fox Well, I do like granite.

Kit Z. Fox

6:34 PM

We have a lot of it.

Also, ocean.

MετάEd

So I hear.

Kit Z. Fox

And trees.

MετάEd

And winter. A lot of that.

Might be a deal breaker.

Kit Z. Fox

We also have potatoes and shoes.

MετάEd

I know how to build an outhouse.

Kit Z. Fox

6:35 PM

Well, you don't have to stay through winter.

But you'll fall in love with the state and it won't matter.

MετάEd

How about just until the insanity is over?

Kit Z. Fox

That might be forever.

MετάEd

Dammit.

Kit Z. Fox

But you're welcome to stay for a while.

Matt E. Эллен

and listen

Kit Z. Fox

6:36 PM

Until you feel better.

MετάEd

The thing about going elsewhere to escape your problems is that you generally bring them with you.

Kit Z. Fox

Don't take your guns to Maine, boy. Leave your guns at home, son.

MετάEd

Considering that I am a Texas citizen, I seem to be embarrassingly short on guns.

Matt E. Эллен

did you check your ankle hostler?

how about the one you tape to your thigh?

user208178

@MετάEd so how many do you own if I may ask?

user208178

6:43 PM

just curious :)

MετάEd

@MattE.Эллен That's not what I tape to my thigh, big guy.

@Arrowfar None.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

user208178

ah

user208178

nice.

Kit Z. Fox

7:10 PM

We owned rifles when I was a kid. I think my dad had a black-powder pistol too.

Makes my gut clench thinking about how we used to do target practice down at the camp. We were safety-conscious but it never felt deadly.

I clocked myself in the forehead shooting my uncle's Taurus 9mm.

Of course, a .22 is way less lethal than most firearms.

MετάEd

Ouch.

Kit Z. Fox

The first time I shot the 12-gauge, it sat me on my ass, which my brothers thought was hilarious.

MετάEd

A thing which has not been understood inevitably reappears; like an unlaid ghost, it cannot rest until the mystery has been solved and the spell broken. —Sigmund Freud

Kit Z. Fox

I don't own any firearms now, unless you count the potato cannon.

MετάEd

@KitZ.Fox It probably was hilarious. And possibly cruel, if somebody thought it would be funny not to let you know what to expect.

You made a spud shooter?

Kit Z. Fox

7:14 PM

@MετάEd It was hilarious. My dad warned me, but how do you know until you do it?

MετάEd

Right.

Kit Z. Fox

@MετάEd Yeah. I think this is the third one.

There was Viking Funeral, then Tater Boomstick, then this one.

MετάEd

Oh, so chronic tater abuse.

This one hasn't been christened?

Kit Z. Fox

We are known for it.

@MετάEd I don't think so. It might be Big Papi, but that might be the alternate name for Viking Funeral.

user208178

@KitZ.Fox did you have those for hunting, or for safety, or just for fun?

MετάEd

7:17 PM

Certainly not for safety.

Kit Z. Fox

@Arrowfar They were originally for hunting.

But my dad lost his taste for it.

user208178

I see.

Kit Z. Fox

So we brought them to camp "for protection", but really just to shoot them occasionally to make sure they were kept in working order.

As I understand it, they were inherited from relatives.

We never once fired the pistol. I think he only had it because it belonged to his father.

The 9mm that I shot off that time was my uncle's sidearm. (He was a Navy officer.)

Well. Then.

user208178

well nice discussion going on.

Kit Z. Fox

Anyway, @MετάEd, I am perfectly serious. We can take in a few refugees if you're worried about your family's safety.

Or you could get a gun, because that seems to be helping.

user208178

7:30 PM

I don't own any firearms either. Some people here do, but mainly for safety reasons (I think) because it is a shitty place.

user208178

also some consider it a status symbol which is silly I think.

Kit Z. Fox

time for me to commute. later!

user208178

Laters!

TIPS

I haven't seen a real gun in my life.

Does this make me a n00b?

Phonics The Hedgehog

@TIPS me neither. Heh

@KitZ.Fox Hi

@MετάEd My support might not be very helpful, but I got yo back

user208178

7:38 PM

hello @PhonicsTheHedgehog.

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Arrowfar How's it going m8

I'll be back after eating.

user208178

I'm good, thanks.

user208178

See ya!

Phonics The Hedgehog

8:11 PM

Aight, back. How's life with you?

TIPS

Boring

In the I-should-be-doing-work-but-Im-not-so-lets-be-stressed state.

MετάEd

@KitZ.Fox We're not afraid for our safety personally. We're afraid and brokenhearted for other people.

TIPS

@MετάEd ?

MετάEd

@TIPS We live maybe 40 miles from last night's Dallas attack.

TIPS

Oh. :(

What is this world going to?

Ugh, it seems as if our end isn't coming because of natural disasters and extraterrestrial phenomena, as we always imagined, but because of our own stupidity.

MετάEd

8:42 PM

The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That’s where we come in; we’re computer professionals. We cause accidents. —Nathaniel Borenstein

user208178

8:56 PM

Museum of Bad Art's motto: Art too bad to be ignored.

MετάEd

9:54 PM

:-)

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…