English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

01:29

@tchrist I really wouldn't know. As you say, princess must be Romance.

Did they even have a special name?

Atheling is quite interesting.

@Shafizadeh ++ for using the<sup> tag in your question... :-) I like it when a person cares about the design.

tchrist

@Cerberus Perhaps not.

Cerberus

Who do you think this is?

(Not whom!)

tchrist

01:46

@Cerberus I already know how to suck eggs, grandson.

But I've no idea whom I behold.

Cerberus

But can you explain why not?

tchrist

@Cerberus Of course.

I think she is this.

Cerberus

She is not a principessa, but a sindachessa.

@tchrist Ding!

The new Roman sindachessa.

tchrist

Eggs. Chestnuts.

Cerberus

Doesn't she look mayorly?

tchrist

01:48

She looks fertile.

Cerberus

She is known as calm and conscientious, I like her already.

She is from a populist party, but perhaps with good reason.

I truly hope she can deliver on her promise.

Shafizadeh

@Cerberus ah thx

SmokeDetector

08:12

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, pattern-matching website in body: Start eating and enjoying your by donaldgreers on english.stackexchange.com …

user174558

09:23

@Cerberus All she needs is DHL. They live to deliver.

user174558

Hello @MattE.Эллен welcome to this chat!

Matt E. Эллен

hi @JasperLoy

user174558

11:14

This chat is quiet.

Matt E. Эллен

dem mundi morning blooz

well, afternoon now

user208178

Good day.

Matt E. Эллен

HI

user174558

Good evening. It is dinner time. I must aways.

Shafizadeh

12:05

Which one?
- A request happens when user opens a page of my website.
- A request happens when the user opens a page of my website.

Matt E. Эллен

@Shafizadeh you need an article, so the or a.

i.e. the second one

Shafizadeh

Do you mean "the user" ?

Matt E. Эллен

yes, or "a user"

Shafizadeh

Ah I see

Which one?
- Never have I ever I didn't do that
- Ever have I never I didn't do that

user174558

12:27

I just answered the incest question, yay!

Mitch

12:42

@JasperLoy Yay! That is totally weird!!

Also. 'entomological'?

user174558

@Mitch I think incest should be legalised.

Mitch

Why do people insist on relying on UD. It's almost as bad as ELU.

Zing!!

@JasperLoy the semantic drift thing is ... a thing. But usually incest even between brother and sister is often an abuse of power.

user174558

The only problem with incest is that it may produce mutated offspring. But one can always use contraceptives.

user174558

@Mitch Are you familiar with the different definitions of computability? It seems very hard to find books that prove they are all equivalent. Most books don't prove it, or prove it only for two cases. I found one which proved that three are equivalent.

Mitch

In the future, sex and death will become separated (as they are inextricably linked now) and so there will be technological means initiated to ward off unwanted activity. If the sex is 'unallowed' by the government of your choice, 'it' will explode immediately, informing everybody of the bad 'thing'. Otherwise, go for it.

@JasperLoy yes, I am very familiar with it.

user208178

12:52

So is there any topic under the sun that we haven't discussed in this chat?

Mitch

The sun

The sun is annoying.

Done

Now we've discussed everything.

You're welcome

user174558

@Mitch The winner is Boolos's Computability and Logic, which proves that a function is recursive computable iff it is Turing computable iff it is abacus computable after rigorously defining Turing machines and the abacus machine which is a type of register machine.

user208178

Hi Mitch

user174558

I wish I were healthy, wealthy and stealthy.

user208178

Why stealthy?

Mitch

12:55

@JasperLoy Hostorically, when these equivalences were first conjectured and proven, they were not obvious. Nowadays they are exercises for grad students (well, maybe for a master's thesis). The details tend to be uninformative mechanical proofs (except for the Turing completeness of the new thing).

user174558

@VitaminC I think I just made that up.

user174558

@Mitch So most of the proofs are long but simple?

user174558

@Mitch Maybe I can solve the P vs NP problem and win a million dollars, lol. After all, I have been trying to solve my MP for so long, where MP = mental problems.

Mitch

@JasperLoy yes (that's my impression). Most reductions (reducing one problem to another, 'simulating' another machine) is just coming up with the right 'widgets' or mechanics to do the 'other' machine.

Kit Z. Fox

Morning.

user208178

13:01

Morning Kit.

Mitch

it's usually easy (conceptually) to simulate say lambda calculus in turing machine because a TM is like a programming language, you just write an interpreter for lambda calculus

user174558

Hello @kit, you look stressed in your latest video.

Mitch

the other way is often harder.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Morning

Kit Z. Fox

@JasperLoy That was intentional.

Thanks for noticing.

Mitch

13:02

@JasperLoy math problems are more ...definable than mental ones.

Kit Z. Fox

Dr. Peaslee is going to slowly become a zombie.

Mitch

@JasperLoy So that's my explanation of why books often don't give more than one TC proof. As to a book recommendation, I have a very qualified one.

user174558

@KitZ.Fox The character Rebecca Chambers in your video appears in the video game but not the movie. I watched all 5 movies and am waiting for the sixth one in Jan 2017.

user174558

@Mitch Which is?

Mitch

A New Kind of Science by Wolfram covers a whole bunch (TMs, string rewriting, cellular automata, LC maybe, a couple of others maybe).

user174558

13:06

@Mitch So far, I think I like Martin Davis's Computability and Unsolvability, and Hermes's Enumerability, Decidability, Computability. I think they can be used for beginning grad texts on recursion theory.

Mitch

But it is very consistent that Wolfram will write a mathematical explanation that is inextricably mixed with self-aggrandizement, egotistical reference to how he discovered the importance of all of these, saying bizarre narcissisms like he doesn't presume he is as important as Newton (the false modesty of intending that you think he should be)

@JasperLoy Davis I remember liking, but I haven't heard of Hermes so I can't say

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch It sounds like you know your math books

Have you ever read "The Code Book" by Simon Singh?

Mitch

I used to spend a lot of time in bookstores. and libraries.

user208178

@Mitch many writers are like that I think.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 i have one of his somewhere...

user174558

13:10

'It is easy to see that' and 'left as an exercise for the reader' are common in math books.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Do you know of a book that explains computation at a similar level?

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ah.. Fermat's Last Theorem.

user174558

I don't like to read scientific books written for laymen though.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Yeah. That's funny. The writers get brain-tired.

user174558

If I am interested in something, I will study it seriously. There is not much point reading books for laymen, except to get interested in something you are not already interested in.

Mitch

13:13

@JasperLoy They can be annoying, but that is mostly how I know of sciencey things that I didn't study directly.

@JasperLoy I want to take a pill that teaches me a language.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There are so many books I haven't read that I'd like to. Is that good?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy I am thinking of my kids, who aren't really ready for textbooks yet.

@Mitch It's very good, but, as Jasper points out, it's "for laymen". It gives a broad view of cryptography, its history, some interesting developments in it, and its application.

user174558

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Do your kids go for things like music classes? If they are interested and talented, it's good to start young.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 hm... computation at the level of Singh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch yeah

Something that can explain turing machines to a regular human, or a smart child

@JasperLoy So far they're not much interested and not at all talented at music.

I do plan to start them though.

even bought a piano

Mitch

The problem with math is that it's like another language. literally. the words mean something else entirely.

Kit Z. Fox

13:17

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We prefer the term "laity".

Mitch

but then if you have the concepts but don't learn the vocabulary, it's almost like you still don't know how to speak it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 a full book shouldn't be necessary.

I know of some popularizations but ...

what this isn't for elementary school but for adult educated? Scientific american or Discovery?

user208178

I used to read "For Dummies" series. They are not bad.

user208178

For laymen I mean.

Mitch

agreed

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It should be very possible but I'm not coming up with anything off the top of my head.

There's 'Logicomix' by Papadimitriou, it's a graphic novel/docudrama of the history of logic since Boole, and Turing appears. I'm not sure there's much of an explanation.

Kit Z. Fox

oooh docudrama

Mitch

13:25

TMs themselves are pretty accessible. It's the universal TM and undecidability that I think might be hard to make accessible.

user174558

@VitaminC I was browsing the For Dummies books on foreign language learning. They seem to be really serious and in depth.

user208178

@JasperLoy yes they are good.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox haha yeah. There are a lot of interesting characters (Cantor, Wittgenstein, Turing, Post). No murder-mysteries though.

Kit Z. Fox

Speaking of interesting characters, I watched Deadpool last night.

Mitch

Not very realistic

user174558

13:27

I wonder why Deadpool is so popular. I never watched it.

Mitch

He's funny

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitZ.Fox I haven't seen it yet

user174558

Do NOT watch Midnight Special. It is TERRIBLE.

Mitch

Is that the one with Dustin Hoffman?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He's surprisingly feminist.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:28

@Mitch Well, I was just hoping, if you knew of something equivalent to The Code Book, I could get it, then bring it out for the kids in a couple years when they're old enough to be intrigued by it. They're still pretty young.

user174558

Midnight Special (film)

Midnight Special is a 2016 American science fiction drama supernatural film written and directed by Jeff Nichols, and produced by Sarah Green and Brian Kavanaugh-Jones. The film stars Michael Shannon, Joel Edgerton, Kirsten Dunst, Adam Driver, and Jaeden Lieberher. The film is Nichols' fourth full-length film and his first studio production. It was selected to compete for the Golden Bear at the 66th Berlin International Film Festival. The film revolves around Roy and his biological son, Alton Meyer, escaping federal and local officers, after discovering that Alton has special powers. The film began...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitZ.Fox cool

Kit Z. Fox

Also very juvenile.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think about it/look out for something. Your kids just started elementary school?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So I had a dream that I, and several characters from the first season of The Walking Dead, were a group of travelling minstrels. It was weird.

@Mitch In sept they will be Grade 3 and 1.

Mitch

13:32

The 3rd grader is ready for binary which is the start.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Very important: what kind of music did you all play?

user208178

I used to watch The Walking Dead, but then stopped watching after a dozen episodes. It was getting kind of violent and crazy.

user174558

In elementary school, they made us play recorders for music class, silly.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Gödel Escher Bach has a chapter in it about TMs that is accessible but it may be hard to read out of context. That book is just so long

user174558

When I painted a bird with 3 colours, the art teacher said there is no such bird, silly.

Mitch

@JasperLoy I think they do that because it 1) teaches music 2) is easy to learn 3) extremely cheap.

user174558

13:35

@Mitch Right. I would rather not have such classes.

Mitch

@JasperLoy well, my point is that giving every kid a piano or violin might not be as productive or feasible.

user174558

I think we should have cooking classes instead. That's my point, lol.

Kit Z. Fox

Apparently my little one is very talented at music.

Saladin

Kit Z. Fox

His music teacher took my husband aside to tell him so. I had no idea.

Saladin

13:40

My car engine stopped like 8 times reversing

Kit Z. Fox

@Saladin You stalled it.

Saladin

What i was doing wrong?

no check the diagram.

Kit Z. Fox

I don't understand the diagram.

Saladin

I turned the steering clockwise but then it was about to hit the car to next

user174558

The diagram does not say anything to me.

Saladin

13:41

should I have reverse straight back??

when should I have turned the wheels

Kit Z. Fox

Are you asking about parallel parking?

Saladin

The car was already parallel parked

I was reversing

Kit Z. Fox

And you were trying to pull out?

Saladin

then take car to left towards gate

yes exactly.

Kit Z. Fox

So you didn't have enough space to back out at the proper angle?

Saladin

13:43

I tried to turn the steering clockwise but the car next to mine was about to be hit.

Should I have backed up straight?

yes not enoughspace

the space was half length of my car

Kit Z. Fox

Was there room to back out straight? Looks like the barricade was a problem.

Saladin

yes it was a problem

Kit Z. Fox

How did you park there already?

Saladin

I think I moved the steering to clockwise too early.

I should have moved it back straight a little bit

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah, you should probably go straight back until the back of the other car is about at the midpoint of your car.

then don't cut it hard.

Saladin

13:45

cut which direction?

Kit Z. Fox

whichever way you need to to go the direction you want to go.

Saladin

it was left

so i turn the steering right...?

Kit Z. Fox

I don't do right and left.

If you want the back of the car to go -->, then you turn the wheel --> when you're backing up.

I think. I could tell you for sure if I were actually doing it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch We never got a chance to play music. Our troupe stopped a the country estate of a psychiatrist. He uploaded fake psychiatric profiles to a criminal database about us and then tried to frame us for a crime while also planning to murder us. We escaped, but then got stuck on a road, where we fired some prop guns into the air to attract attention. However, we were accosted by a local militia who were pretending to be cops.

Saladin

Understood.

But car stalled so many times.

I never reversed like this before

Kit Z. Fox

13:49

You were skittish because of the tight space and inexperience. It's completely understandable.

And stalling once will always make you nervous about stalling again.

And it's hard not to stall when you're trying to be really careful and go very slowly.

Saladin

@KitZ.Fox you are very warm and nice ,... always helping

<#

<3

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Then the real cops showed up and thought WE were pretending to be cops and so they arrested us. I had to plead with the sheriff, played by Tommy Lee Jones, to let us go. He was wearing a hat that said "NRA" which I only noticed after I called the psychiatrist a "gun nut", but then I explained to the sheriff that the psychiatrist literally slept with a rifle between himself and his wife. The Sheriff laughed so hard he gave me an envelope full of cash and dismissed the charges.

Saladin

But i turned the steering at first go? this made my car angle very awkward i was like about to hit the car next to mine.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Do you know GEB? It is considered a good exposition (not misleading) and entertaining (winds together art and music and AI and Lewis Carroll and all sorts of things). It is way too long for under high school. But it has lots of pictures and diagrams.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You should write that down proper.

Mitch

13:51

@JasperLoy Oh. haha...totally.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I've heard of it but never read it.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh. take notes .Interesting. I notice you haven't said anything about your mother lately.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Hm. She got a new dog.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Your subconscious has a future in the industry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch lol. which industry ?

Mitch

13:58

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh. arches eyebrow I see. Very interesting. scribbles nonsense intently Well, our time is up. Tell my assistant on your way out to do a 1729. She'll know what to do. Also, here are some free samples of 'nocebos'. You'll feel better if you avoid taking them.

Also, don't be alarmed but the authorities will be waiting for you when you arrive home. Not to worry, you'll be taken care of fairly well, given your condition.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Wait. This all seems familiar. Do you sleep with a loaded rifle next to you?

user208178

Speaking of music I came across Chives a while back. He makes good covers. Here is one:

user208178

Tsunami DVBBS & Borgeous - ELECTRIC VIOLIN CONCEPT

►

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha, what @KitZ.Fox said. That was a pretty good action-adventure. I'd watch it.

But the psychiatrist has a country estate? That's crazy

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 relax, close your eyes, let your thoughts float past, whatever comes stay behind the curtain until he's all the way out nothing, don't mind that it's just the wind. just relax and ...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Well, I didn't have much space in the chat msg to explain. More like he lives in a rural area on a secluded property with a huge house and lots of accessory buildings. He sees patients there but also at his office in the city which is about an hour's drive away.

Mitch

14:05

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That was my image of a country estate. affordable only by rock stars and old money. maybe new money. whatever, gobs of money.

Kit Z. Fox

Come on, doesn't everybody have maids and drivers?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch well, aren't senior medical professionals paid well in the US?

user208178

@KitZ.Fox Yes and private jets.

user208178

;)

Kit Z. Fox

I learned yesterday that there is such a thing as kidnapping insurance.

And that rich people frequently have privately catered dinner.

Mitch

14:09

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 compared to other countries, I think so, but not that much.

Kit Z. Fox

Not that much compared to the grotesquely rich.

user208178

and we are back to Trump again.

Mitch

!!!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I dunno. I think you might be imagining a larger estate than I am.

@VitaminC how are we back to trump? Oh, you said grotesque

user208178

@KitZ.Fox Evil insurance companies sell those too these days?

Mitch

14:11

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 maybe. I'm imagining maybe maids, but not necessarily drivers.

Kit Z. Fox

I'd like to have a mid-size estate with a gardener and a maid. Maybe a cook too.

user208178

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 howdy!

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox Nice.

@KitZ.Fox It's not unreasonable to hire those on a weekly basis. full-time gardener/maid/cook is filthy rich.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I'm imagining one maid, and a small number of grounds staff who work part-time.

Mitch

driver is silly. Helicopter pilot however...

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 how extensive/complicated are the grounds?

I'm guessing the greenhouse is really attached to the manor and is the province of the eccentric aunt?

(not the crazy aunt, or the really crazy aunt because they're all a bit batty, am I right!!)

user208178

14:16

Picky aunt.

Kit Z. Fox

My cats are acting all weird. I think I just broke up a fight with a strange cat.

Mitch

Also, if there's no crazy aunt, then that means you're the crazy aunt

looks around nervously

Kit Z. Fox

The tom was inside the house and he's pacing and growling.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I didn't think it had a greenhouse. Maybe a barn, a guest house (rarely used), a pool, and a shed. Most of the farm land has been sold off over the years but it's still quite far before you find another house.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'd say that's comfortable.

But psychiatrist? There's a story there.

Oh. You already started it.

I mean there's more of a story there.

Kit Z. Fox

14:18

haha

That would make a really excellent short story series.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's possibly a family estate.

Mitch

with like where did they get all that money?

Kit Z. Fox

But none of the stories would be about the clients.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 makes sense now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Phew! I was beginning to worry that my dreams didn't make sense.

Mitch

14:20

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 actually, that's the time to worry.

Kit Z. Fox

you two are cracking me up this morning.

user208178

14:39

I had a great time too. I have spent hours upon hours on the internet today. See ya.

Mitch

later

bis später

slán go fóill

Matt E. Эллен

15:02

A new "Don't Hug Me I'm Scared" came out yesterday. It was just as unsettling as the rest. +1 might watch again

youtube.com/user/thisisitcollective

Mitch

15:17

@MattE.Эллен "I see a man with a baseball bat" ???

I thought it was going to be about how dogs are made a bit anxious by being hugged, i.e. they don't like it, but accept it because humans are their friends

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch ah! no. It's something else

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен what. did. I. just. watch.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 art? let's never be creative again

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

heh

Kit Z. Fox

nooooooooo!!!!

user208178

16:04

I know about Onelook Reverse Dictionary. Is there a reverse dictionary for "idioms"?

Kit Z. Fox

I don't know how that would work.

user208178

I'm good at googling but couldn't find any.

Kit Z. Fox

Free Online Dictionary has idioms in it.

user208178

I see

user208178

yes I use that one.

user208178

16:09

@KitZ.Fox Kit can I get your suggestion about something?

Mitch

@VitaminC google the idiom

user208178

@Mitch Yes I do that. I meant like when people ask questions related to "travel" idiom/phrases and we can't think of any off the top of our head and it is kind of frustrating, although the idioms are mostly obvious.

user208178

Yep I Google them.

Mitch

right

Kit Z. Fox

@VitaminC yes, after lunch.

user208178

16:24

Heh all right.

user174558

17:48

What did you have for lunch @kit?

Kit Z. Fox

buffalo chicken shredded over arugula.

user174558

That sounds like a difficult sentence.

user174558

18:00

Recently I watched a very nice romance movie. It's High Strung (2016), about a violinist and a dancer. Story similar to Step Up.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

18:13

Hello can there be round brackets after the end of an sentence?

Something like: "There are four kinds of scopes: function, file, block, and function prototype. (A function
prototype is a declaration of a function that declares the types of its parameters.)"

Is this text grammatically valid?

user174558

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD Yes.

user174558

I like apples. (I like oranges too.)

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

But I've read that "round brackets, set off material that is useful to the reader but less crucial to the meaning of a sentence"

user174558

I like apples (and oranges).

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

What is the sentence in this case?

In my quoted text.

user174558

18:16

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD The material that is set off is what is inside the pair of brackets.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

Hahah

I meant my first quoted text. Where there are round brackets after the dot.

user174558

I already answered you.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

OK. Let me fetch that information then.

user174558

The question and the answer are clear.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

Maybe for you - I'm still trying to figure out the meaning of "The material that is set off is what is inside the pair of brackets.".

I'm not so good with the terms in the English grammar yet.

user174558

18:20

(...) The ... part is inside the brackets.

user174558

The part "and oranges" is inside the brackets in my example above.

user174558

The part "I like oranges too" is inside the brackets in my other example above.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

I know but what sentence is that information less crucial to the meaning of?

user174558

What comes immediately before it.

user174558

Less crucial to "I like apples" in both examples above.

user174558

18:23

XXX (YYY) YYY is less crucial than XXX

user174558

So we put YYY in brackets immediately after XXX

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

OK. But in both cases those sentences should be meaningful in case the information inside the round brackets is omitted right?

user174558

Yes, probably. If you see another example and are not sure, ask. There are no 100 per cent rules in English.

user174558

Also, one person may tell you one set of rules and another person another set.

user174558

That's because in punctuation, there are different styles, and so there are different style guides.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

18:27

We can't for example write: "Newterm is cool. (Newterm is orange)", considering that Newterm isn't defined anywhere else, right?

user174558

I dislike most of the punctuation answers on this site.

user174558

Well, you can. Whether the whole thing makes sense is another story.

user174558

But the way it is written is correct if the author intends the second part to be parenthetical.

user174558

'One plus one is three' is grammatical. Whether it makes sense is another story.

user174558

Hope you are clear.

user174558

18:30

Newterm is cool. (Newterm is orange.)

user174558

You need the full stop after the second sentence, because it is a complete sentence.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

@JasperLoy OK nice.

Yeah but information in round brackets could be ignored by the reader, right?

user174558

The use of the brackets just means the meaning is less important to the writer, that is all.

user174558

It means what it means, no more, no less. QED.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

Strange I was taught in school that if I misspell a word for example, I can fix that mistake by putting that word in brackets.

So it's ignored.

But our teacher was too deep into the grammar so it may have been just her sick interpretation of it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:55

I want to tell you something about Newterm, but I also want to provide context, in case you've never heard of it before. Newterm is nothing like an apple. (Newterm is an orange). If you know what Newterm is, the () part is optional. If you don't know, it's extra information.

"Newterm is nothing like an apple." can stand alone as a sentence. It is less informative on its own, but the extra information may not be needed.

Mitch

@JasperLoy 'arugula', when pronounced aloud, sounds like old-fashioned car horn, like on 1930's Mickey Mouse cartoons.

Sort of like how the town in Wisconsin named 'Beloit' sounds like you just dropped a ball bearing into a toilet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:39

my neighbour has one of those car horns.

But his car is literally from before WWII.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

20:20

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah but what if it is first defined in the () part. Like "Apples should not be put in Newterm. (Newterm is a bowl.)". This seems rather odd to me at least.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD It depends.

Is it being defined for the first time ever, in the universe? Or will some readers already know?

Is the fact that Newterm is a bowl really important, or just an aside?

It's odd to have a rule that says "Never do X with the Y" if nobody has any idea what the Y is.

user174558

I just watched a very nice telemovie. Hopeless Romantic (2016).

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's defined for the first time ever, in the universe. It's part of a standard paper.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But it's not odd to talk about the Y as if the reader is expected to know what Y is, only to (in an aside) remind the reader about Y's nature.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

The reader is not expected to know what Y is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:24

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD In that case I wouldn't use that style.

user174558

I dislike people leaving misleading comments on questions. They should just not comment at all if they cannot get their facts right.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's in fact this exact text: "There are four kinds of scopes: function, file, block, and function prototype. (A function prototype is a declaration of a function that declares the types of its parameters.)". As "function prototype" being newly introduced in the ().

I do think too that this is not the best style of defining a new term.

Anyway is there a phrase "talked about"? Like saying for example - "What are those things that are talked about?" implying some things written in some text.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD well, this is in a programming text, where it is common for readers to have an idea what these terms normally mean. The last one may be unfamiliar, so it gets defined in an aside.

It's not a very good definition though.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's not some programming book or tutorial but instead an ISO standard which defines the language from scratch. Nothing should be assumed by default there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:52

@CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD well, the definitions of "function", "block", "file", are probably the same definitions used anywhere in computer programming.

You don't normally start with a dictionary that defines every word in the rest of the document.

CisNOTthatGOODbutISOisTHATBAD

Hahah

But they do though.

Especially in an ISO standard.

Anyway.

What about the phrase "talked about" - is there such thing in English. Can I refer to something as "the thing that is talked about in the text"?

And on my first point - you are probably right about some words that are common. However for this specific one - "function prototype" - it's clearly that its first defined in the (). And that's not only my opinion but it was also confirmed by someone else (the fact that gave it away was the way it was formatted - with italic - and this way of formatting is a common way of telling that a new term is defined by the standard).

SmokeDetector

21:11

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: Fag as a term for donkey work by TheTobruk on english.stackexchange.com …

Saladin

21:42

hello

anyone?

Dan Bron

23:00

Hmm. I was describing my first day at a new job today, trying to tell my family that I like my coworkers. But now I can't decide if it's "no one is up his own ass" (no individual is pretentious) or "no one is up their own asses" (as a group, everyone is down to earth).

Mitch

@JasperLoy People are idiots

Not absolutely everything has been said before. Go to another chat room.

Shocking

It's not that there are things there that have never been said before but that shouldn't be said in the first place.

Dan Bron

23:27

Not sure whether you're advising me or someone else to go to another chat room

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