English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

crl

09:02

what could be a good antonym of 'expand' in the context of expanding a text selection? shrink?

Matt E. Эллен

yes, or collapse

crl

thanks ok

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

10:12

I would use "condense."

TIPS

11:46

@Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ You don't condense a text selection.

Collapse works best.

Færd

12:24

@TIPS Condense works. I wouldn't say it doesn't work even if it weren't defined as such; it would work just fine figuratively anyway.

TIPS

@Færd But text selection!

Will you ever say "condense a text selection"?

Færd

Mmmaybe.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

A section of text maybe condensed as defined.

Færd

Does text selection mean something other than a section of text ?

TIPS

@Færd you is weird.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:28

We don't know without more context :)

TIPS

@Færd It's a section of text you select with the mouse that gets highlighted in blue.

Most probably what CRL meant.

Færd

Yeah, what I had in mind.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Perhaps.

Færd

@TIPS You wired you.

@crl See also abridge and its synonyms.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

18 hours of silence is unusual for this room :-/

Færd

12:33

Smokedetector pops in once in a while!

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

How about "miniaturize"? @Færd @TIPS

TIPS

Too wordy

AFAIK collapse is the collocation @Sᴋᴜʟʟ. Nothing is as good as collocation.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

11 mins ago, by Færd

Mmmaybe.

Færd

What do we want to do with it exactly? Make the font smaller?

Or leave out some parts?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

10 mins ago, by Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

We don't know without more context :)

TIPS

12:38

Drag the cursor back or click somewhere irrelevant or . . . Ugh, how should I know? It's not my question.

Færd

@Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ Mhm.

Okay. I have my question. What is a throbbing pain? I mean, does it throb in synchronization with your heartbeat? Or will any rhythm do?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Usually it follows the heart beat, but not always.

Færd

If it goes on and off every ten minutes would you call it throbbing?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Sure.

Færd

Oh. Thanks.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:51

As long as it pulsates.

Færd

I see.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

ie a throbbing head ache

Færd

I thought it had to palsate at a fast pace to be called throbbing.

Like along with the heartbeat.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

Nah, pain comes in many forms.

Færd

Yeah. The challenge is whether it's welcome.

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

12:56

yup

good point

Mitch

13:23

@Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ says nothing

remains a philosopher

TIPS

But you just said something.

Kit Z. Fox

13:48

I woke up in the middle of a dream this morning and I continue to be in a fog.

TIPS

That's not fog, something's burning.

Kit Z. Fox

Damn it.

user208178

@KitZ.Fox Hi. What was the dream about?

Mitch

@TIPS Where there's fog, there's a fog machine.

@VitaminC She dreamt she was in a fog

user208178

Howdy @Mitch. How are you?

Mitch

14:00

I am not in a fog. Also not dreaming

well maybe daydreaming

user208178

about?

Kit Z. Fox

@VitaminC It was a murder mystery, trying to find the killer who was taunting us.

He kept leaving clues.

user208178

ooh I see.

Kit Z. Fox

There were little transmitters.

Mitch

I once had a dream where it was April but I was at summer camp, and then that's when I realized I was in a dream and then I immediately forgot about that and went about my usual April/summer things in my dream.

Kit Z. Fox

14:01

I woke up in the middle of solving a puzzle in an attic with a collapsed floor.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox Oh. I see. takes notes

Please continue.

What was that classic pointed non 'non sequitur' question by Eliza?

Kit Z. Fox

I don't know.

Mitch

I'm searching for it.

user208178

@KitZ.Fox so you are a writer anyway so you could use that in your stories. It could be great.

Kit Z. Fox

Could be.

user208178

14:10

Whenever I get a bizarre or even a cool dream most of the time I just forget it immediately after waking up. It is automatic for me and it sucks.

user208178

But it is a good thing that I forget bad stuff as well.

Mitch

[Eliza transcript](http://www.filfre.net/2011/06/eliza-part-1/) (Eliza in CAPS, person in lowercase)

Men are all alike.
IN WHAT WAY
They’re always bugging us about something or other.
CAN YOU THINK OF A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE
Well, my boyfriend made me come here.
YOU BOYFRIEND MADE YOU COME HERE
He says I’m depressed much of the time.
I AM SORRY TO HEAR YOU ARE DEPRESSED
It’s true. I am unhappy.
DO YOU THINK COMING HERE WILL HELP YOU NOT TO BE UNHAPPY
I need some help, that much seems certain.
WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO YOU IF YOU GOT SOME HELP

Kit Z. Fox

Oh yeah that

Mitch

Not entirely a nonsequitur, but pretty good for 1966 (even if scripted)

Is it so obvious that that was an inspiration for the Voight-Kampf test?

Kit Z. Fox

No.

user208178

14:16

@Mitch so Eliza is a program. At first I thought Eliza was yelling.

Kit Z. Fox

I remember writing that program in Basic on my C64.

It was in a book of Basic programs, I think. Or maybe one of the computer magazines we used to get.

It was my first experience with reflective listening.

Mitch

@VitaminC Well, the past is a different country, probably Paraguay, and the easiest way to distinguish characters efficiently back then was by case choice.

@KitZ.Fox That's impressive given that the original LISP made it much easier to do basic parsing first (before applying the scripts)

user208178

@Mitch I see. Interesting.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch It was less sophisticated. "Tell me more" "Please continue" etc

Mitch

Still.

the main part is the script

it's a technical difficulty to pick out keywords and return it back to you in good syntax, but the 'human' feeling is in the script

Kit Z. Fox

14:29

I know. I mentioned I'm a space cadet today. right/

user208178

So why aren't we discussing politics here today? oh, I see, Cerbs and others are missing.

user208178

I have been listening to "Skillet" and "Imagined dragons" they are pretty good.

Matt E. Эллен

14:59

@KitZ.Fox is that like being an intern for NASA?

Mitch

@VitaminC Wednesday is Logic discussion day. Except when it's not.

Matt E. Эллен

*soy

Mitch

argh!

user208178

Good day @MattE.Эллен!

Matt E. Эллен

hi!

user208178

15:02

@Mitch oh I didn't know.

Mitch

Every day is like that

You know what I find annoying?

user208178

I'm listening.

Mitch

People who answer their own questions.

Gah! That really roils me

Matt E. Эллен

trombone sting

Mitch

I think your trombone is broken

user208178

15:03

@Mitch Well you are doing just that :)

Kit Z. Fox

@MattE.Эллен Yes

Mitch

That's why it stings sp much

Matt E. Эллен

WA WA WA WAAAAAA Sound Effect

►

@KitZ.Fox cool!

Kit Z. Fox

@MattE.Эллен Uh, pardon?

Matt E. Эллен

@KitZ.Fox trombone sting

Kit Z. Fox

15:04

This is me giving you a look for the image on that video.

Matt E. Эллен

I don't know if sting is the right word, but it's all I have

Kit Z. Fox

Obama as Jesus is not appropriate, @Matty.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен That means nothing to me.

Oh.

turns sound back on

Oh!

Kit Z. Fox

That's much better. Thanks.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox stink trombone

err... stink eye trombone?

user208178

15:08

If it was reddit I would be writing "TRIGGERED!" in comments just for fun's sake.

Mitch

what does 'triggered' mean?

user208178

oh you don't know?

Mitch

No, I don't know

user208178

Reddit has its vocabulary.

user208178

It is quite colorful.

Mitch

15:17

I don't spend time on reddit

user208178

Well I do. Sometimes.

user208178

Not by this name btw.

user208178

@Mitch Getting filled with hate after seeing, hearing or experiencing something you can't stand.

Mitch

TRIGGERED!

I can't stand being self-reflexive!

user208178

:)

Mitch

15:19

That's no little understatement

I think we should start using 'TRIGGERED' to mean something more pleasant.

user208178

Sure. Many people don't like this term btw.

Mitch

Like "Getting filled with a donut after seeing, hearing or experiencing something... or nothing at all'

@VitaminC like 'moist' or like 'PC'?

(the sound of the word or it's misapplied implications)?

those are the only choices

there's no such thing as false dichotomy.

there's only dichotomy or nothing.

terdon

@Mitch How about "Trigger, verb. Have a pleasant discussion with TRiG"?

user208178

@Mitch I didn't know that. Do some people don't like those terms?

user208178

@Mitch Yes its misapplied implications I believe.

Cerberus

15:26

Oh, you're such a TRiGGer.

user208178

Also since I'm not an American many terms didn't make sense to me there at first. For example first time I heard "alt-right" I thought "Alt+Right" literally. I didn't know about the concept it portrays. Trump supporters etc. you know.

user208178

I hope I don't get hated for writing "alt-right" here lol

Kit Z. Fox

TIGGERED!

user208178

lol

Kit Z. Fox

bounces

Mitch

15:31

@VitaminC haha...i thought that too

@KitZ.Fox it's what the gangstas say now. 'Gotta tigga, peace out.'

@VitaminC it's really the ctrl-right

ha ha...politics

Matt E. Эллен

The wonderful thing about triggers
Is triggers are wonderful things

Mitch

sobs quietly

tiggas

terdon

Wow. I'd never heard of alt-right before but, having glanced at its Wikipedia (sorry, Cerb, Wikipædia) page, I struggle to understand what exactly is so "alt" about it.

Cerberus

@terdon Thank you.

But why not in Greek?

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon for moving forward after going back in a browser?

terdon

15:41

Alt-right

The alt-right is a segment of right-wing ideologies presented as an alternative to mainstream conservatism in the politics of the United States. The alt-right has been described as a movement unified by support for Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump, as well as opposition to multiculturalism and immigration. Although there is no official ideology associated with the alt-right, various sources have linked the alt-right with white nationalism, white supremacism, antisemitism and even self-described fascism. It has also been linked to less extreme policies such as right-wing populism,...

Matt E. Эллен

oh, that kind of right

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Yeah, but what kind of alt?

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon It's a politer term for Tea Party.

Matt E. Эллен

supporting Trump, apparently. I mean, most of the GoP don't

Cerberus

Alternative?

Ugly term.

Cebuano Wikipedia

The Cebuano Wikipedia (Cebuano: Wikipedya sa Sinugboanon) is the Cebuano-language edition of Wikipedia. It currently contains 2,570,726 articles, most of which were created by the automated program Lsjbot. As of January 2016, Cebuano Wikipedia is the third-largest language edition of Wikipedia, behind English and Swedish and ahead of German. However, there are only 111 active users. == History == The Cebuano Wikipedia, Ang Gawasnong Ensiklopedya, was proposed by Bentong Isles in early 2005 and was started on June 22, 2005. As of February 2013, it was the largest Philippine-language Wikipedia based...

Kit Z. Fox

15:43

#NotAllRepublicans

I know many Rs who switched or unenrolled because of the German-American candidate.

Cerberus

I wonder why Cebuano Wikipaedia was allowed to generate articles automatically. Now it is the third biggest Wikipaedia of all.

terdon

Yeah, yeah, it's just that the description fits my idea of extreme right better than any kind of "alternative" right.

Kit Z. Fox

Why do you think those things are different?

Cerberus

Just call it populist far-right?

Kit Z. Fox

It's not populist.

terdon

15:44

> The Cebuano people (Cebuano: Sugbuanon) are a subgroup of the Visayan people whose primary language is Cebuano, an Austronesian language native to the Central Visayas which is also the lingua franca of Mindanao.[2][3]

Cerberus

@terdon There is absolutely no need in life for us to use ugly and/or poorly descriptive terms invented by someone else.

@terdon I know it is a Philippine language, but why was it allowed to make 2,000,000 articles by robot?

terdon

Wow. Here's what I read: "The bzztfg people (Asdkka: asldasda) are a subgroup of the Lkjasda people whose primary language is Asdkka, an Galsdlasd language native to the Central Klkasd which is also the lingua franca of Kkasjdbasd.[2][3]

Always nice to discover new depths of one's ignorance.

Cerberus

Where?

terdon

@Cerberus In the quote above. I replaced the words I didn't know with nonsense to give you an idea.

Cerberus

@terdon I had never heard of the language either!

Oh, haha.

I get it.

Austronesian and Mindanao are fairly interesting words to know.

One a very important and large language family, the other the biggest or second-biggest island in the Philippines.

terdon

15:47

Cool.

Cerberus

It's always flooded in the news.

Like all of the Philippines...

terdon

@Cerberus People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones Dutchman.

Cerberus

You're confusing me with a hobbit.

We're hardly ever flooded.

user208178

Hello @Cerberus @terdon.

terdon

> In the days of primitive tribes and grass huts, there was one tribe which was very warlike. They won many battles, and took control of many other tribes.
One of their customs when they beat another tribe was to take the most prized posession of the enemy's chief.
One time, after a particularly fierce battle they defeated a rich tribe, whose king had a prized solid gold throne.
Our warlike tribe took the throne, and put it in the loft in their cheif's house. Unfortunately, the throne was much too heavy to be kept in a loft in a grass house, and it fell right through the ceiling, onto the c…

Cerberus

15:50

Hello.

terdon

Hey @VitaminC

Cerberus

Haha.

That's a nice...parallaxis?

terdon

If you say so. Really not sure.

Cerberus

I'm making up a Greek word.

terdon

Point is, you guys are permanantly underwater so I don't see how you get to point fingers at others being flooded :P

Cerberus

15:52

Maybe because...we're hardly ever flooded?

We have the money and the traditions to build dikes.

terdon

Cheating.

Cerberus

It's different in poor countries.

terdon

Anyway, that sort of pun is called a Contrepèterie in French. I've never heard of an English (or Greek) word for it.

Cerberus

We should build dikes for people in poor, low-land regions that suffer from flooding.

Oh!

Nice word.

How did you find it?

terdon

@Cerberus I happened to know it. That's a very popular form of jest in France.

Oh and that page links to the English term:

> A spoonerism is an error in speech or deliberate play on words in which corresponding consonants, vowels, or morphemes are switched (see metathesis) between two words in a phrase.

Cerberus

15:55

Like Verlan and Cockney rhyming slang, kind of?

terdon

Kinda, yeah

Mitch

tigga back in

or javanavanavanais

A Spooner River Thanatology

@Cerberus Hobbits get flooded? Or you don't live in a grass house... currently?

@Cerberus Every time I see that word I think, what a mess, a language of Bat Cebuano.

Ugh...I have self-made goals which means I am immediately guilty for not making my own milestones.

I'm firing myself.

terdon

@Mitch What, you order them pre-carved?

Mitch

Well, don't worry, I'll let myself off easily.

@terdon There's an app for that.

Zing!

That was the sound of using up my last cliche for the day.

No more cliches.

No more repeating myself.

except for quoting

other people

Feb 17 '12 at 2:26, by user19161

But no need to avoid a cliche if that is what you want to mean.

terdon

Tsk, that's a lot of repetition.

Mitch

16:10

3 mins ago, by Mitch

Feb 17 '12 at 2:26, by user19161

But no need to avoid a cliche if that is what you want to mean.

terdon

Just can't trust anything you say, can I?

Mitch

May 17 at 23:50, by tchrist

Difficult to believe, isn't it?

terdon

Oh, this is going to be fun. So, @Mitch, do you have the time?

Mitch

Jun 27 '14 at 20:23, by Andrew Leach

agog

terdon

@Mitch Is that UTC or UGT?

Mitch

16:16

Jun 1 at 19:52, by Demisemihemidemisemiquaver

Ugh

Kit Z. Fox

If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

terdon

Whose Line US - Two Line Vocabulary

►

Cerberus

@Mitch Hobbits live in grass houses, don't they? At least their can be grass on their roofs.

Why isn't it rooves, by the way?

Mitch

May 27 at 23:18, by thepiercingarrow

On a slightly unrelated note, would maypole be a compliment or an insult?

Kit Z. Fox

applauds Again!

Mitch

16:18

@Cerberus I don't know! That bugs the crap out of me!

Kit Z. Fox

Hoofs.

Poofs.

I can't think of any others. Why would it be rooves?

Mitch

Nov 28 '15 at 14:29, by tchrist

I rather like peanut butter, at least at times.

terdon

Why isn't it developpers?

Kit Z. Fox

envelopped?

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox It is (or should be) hooves, rooves, wolves, dwarves, scarves, wharves

Kit Z. Fox

16:21

@Mitch hoofs and roofs. That's different than the others.

Mitch

@Cerberus Pfft ... hobbits

Kit Z. Fox

Goofs.

Hooves is the odd one.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox yes, but rooves is what it'll be when I come to power.

Mar 9 at 16:36, by Kit Z. Fox

Did I say that out loud?

terdon

@KitZ.Fox Would you pronounce the alternate spellings hooves and hoofs the same?

Huh, this one is nice:

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Matt E. Эллен

rooves is what it is now, at least in the OED. Rooves isn't mentioned in ODO

> Plural roofs Brit. /ruːfs/ , /rʊfs/ , U.S. /rufs/ , /rʊfs/ , rooves Brit. /ruːvz/ , U.S. /ruvs/ .

terdon

16:30

@MattE.Эллен No shit! Really? For roofs?

Matt E. Эллен

yes

terdon

Eeek! And do people pronounce it with a v?

Matt E. Эллен

yes.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Do you? Is it a regional thing? I just checked forvo.com/word/roofs/#en and both the yank and the aussie said f.

Matt E. Эллен

I do. I hadn't thought about it until now, so I don't know what everyone else does

terdon

16:34

Huh. Interesting.

NGrams doesn't even register rooves. books.google.com/ngrams/…

And my OED is from 1971 so. . .

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon latter would be ooooier, I think.

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon it does, just not very much

terdon

@KitZ.Fox OK, but f or v for both?

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon No.

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Fair enough.

@KitZ.Fox ?

Kit Z. Fox

16:35

There's a roof/ruff distinction in the US. Is that other places too?

@terdon v for the latter, f for the former.

terdon

Huh, I see.

Mitch

Feb 15 '15 at 16:00, by tchrist

Isn’t that interesting? It says that rooves is both 15th and 20th centuries, but not so much in between those!

Cerberus

Oh, you're still talking about rooves?

What have I done?

Oh, what I have done!

Mitch

Feb 15 '15 at 15:57, by tchrist

As for rooves, if that is how you say it, I see no reason not to spell it that way.

Cerberus

(This is the correct punctuation according to Fowler. But do you think an exclamation mark in the question type is stylistically optimal?)

Mitch

16:38

May 13 '11 at 18:56, by Alenanno

Did we change topic from God to body care now? :D

terdon

I would say roofs and spell it accordingly.

Rooves sounds like a verb for some reason.

Cerberus

(The non-question type clearly requires an exclamation point and does not allow for a question mark.)

terdon

As in she rooves.

Cerberus

@Mitch Hey, I haven't seen Ale in this room for ages.

Mitch

May 1 '14 at 2:57, by snailboat

I've never liked the interrobang ‽

Cerberus

16:40

Nor I.

I still think Fowler is right.

But I think most people would consider an exclamation mark in the question-type acceptable.

Matt E. Эллен

Auh! Wut aye haav doone?

Mitch

@terdon It's something in the way she rooves me.

Cerberus

@MattE.Эллен Nooooooo...

terdon

@Mitch Don't wanna leave her now, don't wanna leave her now...

Matt E. Эллен

that should be leafs

Mitch

16:44

that should 'shingles'

Matt E. Эллен

OK, Sean, we don't need to know about your night in the strip club

Mitch

@Cerberus I just use an exclamation. Fowler can bite it.

@MattE.Эллен or first day at kindergarten

Matt E. Эллен

ewwww

Mitch

@Cerberus By my latest reckoning, you've spoken to him recently. Just not here, for since like 2013?

puts away spyglass

user208178

@Mitch Haha spying on others in chats here is easy unless they are you know in the Teacher's Lounge etc.

Mitch

16:51

Dec 10 '15 at 3:15, by barrycarter

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Chat is archived and indexed by google, no?

user208178

yes Google too.

user208178

damn.

user208178

everything is public.

Cerberus

@Mitch Grrr.

Mitch

Apr 2 at 13:28, by IͶΔ

Since everything you say here is public, and searchable, please do not give out personal info and stuff.

Cerberus

16:52

@Mitch Yes, I have spoken to him last week, in Linguistics.

Mitch

May 19 at 21:32, by Cerberus

@tchrist Tell that to Fowler.

Apr 2 at 14:46, by IͶΔ

Pfft yeah right. Are you telling me linguists sleep like babies?

MετάEd

bonne journée

Mitch

Oct 25 '12 at 20:50, by Robusto

BTW, is MIDI dead? Are we après-MIDI?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch Have you ever seen a baby sleep?

user208178

@KitZ.Fox redwood maybe since we don't have them here.

Mitch

16:59

Mar 10 '11 at 23:46, by Martha

But, see, she's not my baby. When she starts getting too stinky, I can say, "here, have her back".

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…