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22:00
@Cerberus — I think the Nazis had something to do with that.
Triumph of the Will () is a propaganda film made by Leni Riefenstahl. It chronicles the 1934 Nazi Party Congress in Nuremberg, which was attended by more than 700,000 Nazi supporters. The film contains excerpts from speeches given by various Nazi leaders at the Congress, including portions of speeches by Adolf Hitler, interspersed with footage of massed party members. Hitler commissioned the film and served as an unofficial executive producer; his name appears in the opening titles. The overriding theme of the film is the return of Germany as a great power, with Hitler as the True German ...
Triumph des Willens ist ein NS-Propagandafilm über den Reichsparteitag der NSDAP 1934 in Nürnberg und gilt als eines der einflussreichsten Werke der Regisseurin Leni Riefenstahl. Die Uraufführung fand am 28. März 1935 im Ufa-Palast am Zoo in Berlin statt. Nach dem Ende des Dritten Reiches wurde diese Produktion wegen Verbreitung nationalsozialistischen Gedankenguts in Deutschland als Vorbehaltsfilm eingestuft. Produktion Der inszenierte Dokumentarfilm enthält Bildmaterial vom Parteitag 1934 mit seinen Paraden und Aufzügen sowie zahlreiche Auszüge aus Reden verschiedener Nazi-Führer wäh...
I guess the German Wikipedia can't show Hitler's portrait.
@Robusto Yes, and that is why I think he didn't really treat it as a an anthropomorphic force, or he would be silly.
Adolf Hitler (* 20. April 1889 in Braunau am Inn, Oberösterreich; † 30. April 1945 in Berlin) war Diktator des Deutschen Reiches von 1933 bis 1945. Als Vorsitzender der NSDAP prägte er ab 1921 die antisemitische und rassistische Ideologie des Nationalsozialismus, etwa mit seiner Programmschrift Mein Kampf. Am 30. Januar 1933 wurde er zum deutschen Reichskanzler ernannt. Dieses Amt ließ er 1934 mit dem des Reichspräsidenten vereinigen und sich fortan offiziell als „Führer und Reichskanzler“ bezeichnen. 1938 übernahm er zudem die unmittelbare Befehlsgewalt über die gesamte Wehrmacht. Ab 1...
Oh. Well, his portrait is the first picture on the page.
@Robusto That may be true, and people might have conflated Schopenhauer's Will with that of Nietzsche, which is in fact about domination.
By the way, who was it that reminded me that Nietzsche was not anti-semitic?
Hehe.
Then maybe thanks.
oh, no, I'm conflating anti-semitic with fascist
Jul 29 '11 at 19:05, by Matt Ellen
@Cerberus TSZ didn't seem to have fascistic tendencies, so I guess I'm ok so far :D
22:18
Right, I remember that discussion!
Besides, I think perhaps it is sometimes good to "help" those who do not want to be helped.
maybe
so long as they remember
Otherwise it's a waste, and you'll never get anything from it
> Compassion arises from a transcendence of this egoism (the penetration of the illusory perception of individuality, so that one can empathise with the suffering of another) and can serve as a clue to the possibility of going beyond desire and the will. — Schopenhauer.
I kind of like this.^
@MattЭллен But does it really matter whether you get something from it?
In other words, isn't the warm, fuzzy feeling enough?
maybe I've used the wrong word.
I mean if you help someone and they don't want it and then go back to how they were, you've essentially lost an amount of resources. Society loses
If you help someone who does want it but they don't understand that this is not just for their benefit, then that's bad too
You're basically saying that you think there is a small chance that helping someone against his will can be successful, aren't you?
Yes
not that you shouldn't try though
22:26
My point was just that in some cases there is a chance.
people can change - they might realise what you're doing and appreciate it
Exactly. And it may even help if they never realize it, like taxes on cigarettes.
So that's why "not helping those who do not want to be helped" is not a very useful maxim to me.
I believe the opposite is true.
22:29
Smokers cost less in the long run, because they usually die from quick diseases.
hahahhaha
trying to cure them costs far more than you think
Whereas the average non smoker needs decades of care, and often costly treatments to slow diseases.
and all the people they injure through their smoking?
@MattЭллен I thought there was reasonable consensus on the figures.
@MattЭллен I presume they added that in the calculation, but keep in mind it is exclusively a financial calculation.
oh, ok, I just imagine that curing cancer and fixing hearts is a lot more expensive to the government than looking after old people, since looking after old people is mostly paid for by the family
22:31
About how much more or less the average smoker costs to the government as compared to the average non-smoker.
true, there is a lot of tax on tobacco
@MattЭллен Is that so? How about old people's homes?
@Cerberus paid for by the old person, or the family in many cases, although I'm not sure how the balance is with regards to welfare payments
I am, of course, only talking about the UK
the NHS is a big money sink, and elderly care does fall under that to some degree, but people have to sell their homes and pay from their pensions to stay in old people homes
although there are a lot of government backed pensions at the moment, that will change when my generation hits 70
@MattЭллен By the old person, I should think; that reduced the inheritance, and so drains more money from society than dying at 60.
It is very hard to find the right figures.
so smokers who don't want to stop should be encouraged to continue, for the benefit of us all
22:37
I didn't say that.
In fact I am a vicious anti-smoker.
I hate everything about it.
But I think the argument that smokers cost more to society is not true.
Not financially.
I was drunk once and stole a friends cigarette from his mouth an broke it just as he was about to light it! He wasn't best pleased
22:38
Hehe.
Nice.
I confine myself to whining about it.
Me too, normally
@Cerberus yes, I suppose I don't think of things from an economic perspective often. When I say help someone I mean help them to be happier about life. Help them to succeed and flourish. Having money is a small part of that in my mind
if someone doesn't want my help then more power to them! I shan't pity them for their choices
@Cerb is Reaper a good card?
I can't beat mission 19...
22:55
@Sim I think I'm on mission 28.
And it is difficult.
@MattЭллен That's why I said that taxing cigarettes may be successful "helping people against their will".
@Mahnax Hmm I don't know it, so probably not; but it could be useful at your level, hard to say.
@Cerberus Isn't that like treating them as simpletons? It seems a bit demeaning
@MattЭллен No? So, what if you could force people to undergo cancer treatment who don't "believe" in cancer and go to a spiritual dancer instead?
@MattЭллен Yes, it is.
So I can see that its being demeaning is a disadvantage. But I strongly believe that sometimes the benefits outweigh that.
so if someone believe that blood transfusions are against God's law you'd trick them? (assuming they needed a transfusion)
what if they realised? they would believe you had eternally damned them
Just because they're wrong, they should just shut up and be helped?
@simchona I don't know what you're using, but maybe try siege and flying. Maybe healing too.
@MattЭллен A difficult decision.
Perhaps. I don't know.
23:02
nor do I :D
So I didn't say you should do it always—certainly not.
well, yes, generalisations are a bad way to make policy
Agreed.
unfortunately for us that's how government makes laws :(
That's why I do not like it when people argue against forcing something on people simply because they think noöne should ever be helped against his will.
@MattЭллен Yes, too often. But many laws are good.
23:09
@Cerberus fair enough
@Cerberus But do you think that by tricking someone into doing what's good for them has made them smarter, and therefore increases their worth, or does it make them dependant on you to think for them? (Or something else?)
@MattЭллен It doesn't make them smart; but does it need to?
I don't know what you mean by "worth" or why that should matter.
@Cerberus it matters because we all consume resources. I mean does it make then more useful to society?
smarter people are more useful because they should use fewer resources
@MattЭллен Oh, in that way. I don't know: the effect may be neutral?
Or do you mean as opposed to educating them? Of course that is better, but only if it has the desired result. Often it does not.
if it doesn't have the desired result then they've not been educated
Often forcing it on people is the only thing that works. By forcing I mean giving them significant incentives, like money. Or something stronger, like compulsory screening for cancer or something.
@MattЭллен True. So then in many cases education is impossible, or at least we lack the means or the right method.
Or it is prohibitively expensive.
23:25
First person to evolve mind control telepathy wins!
Yay!
What if it's Hitler?
then we're all screwed
unless he's learned the error of his ways
Hmm I made a dish that contains 1646 calories.
:O
that's exact
@MattЭллен Likely.
23:26
did you burn it to find out?
@MattЭллен I entered all ingredients into a calorie counter.
The sausage alone is 901.
hehehhehe you said sausage
Well, don't you like it?
23:27
Mm, sausage
@Cerberus "Yah! Suicide made me realize zat vee all shud just get along"
@Cerberus I do enjoy sausage
@MattЭллен Hehe, what Hell does to a person!
Can't eat sausage
@simchona I know!
Nor any kind of bird or pork for that matter.
23:28
@SonicTheHedgehog Wai not?
@Cerberus I'm so glad we understand each other
I have some kind of allergy against them.
What happens if you eat it?
@simchona Always.
If I do eat them, I get nasty bumps around my body.
sighs
Hmm. Large bumps? Many?
23:29
bad thing is, we discovered it like only few years ago.
@Cerb Small, many.
OK.
@SonicTheHedgehog Hmm what do you mean?
@Cerberus Yummy
I developed taste to them
Before I found out.
Ah yes.
And you haven't had any outbreaks since you stopped eating them?
Not alot, my body gets confused to sudden change of diet.
23:31
But still some?
?
I can still eat beef..
There have still been a few times when you got these bumps, after you stopped eating pork and fowl?
Idk, if I did, I never noticed them.
And how often did you get them before?
Greetings @JosephWeissman!
We discussed Schopenhauer not an hour ago.
hey Cerb, how's it going?
23:34
It takes about few hours for the bumps to develop. Sometimes it can be jet dots.
Good, you?
@SonicTheHedgehog Hives, then.
@SonicTheHedgehog How often before you quit pork and fowl?
I don't know, never noticed them, and I am not liking the questions...
Don't like being reminded.
@JosephWeissman Would you say Schopenhauer's Wille is truly animist?
@SonicTheHedgehog OK, I'll stop.
23:35
Damn spontaneous genes.
You brought up the subject.
My mom has similar symptoms...
But I understand.
@SonicTheHedgehog If you don't want to talk about it, don't keep talking about it
and her hair is getting lighter every year.
From black to brown...
23:36
@SonicTheHedgehog Sun?
This looks like Holland!
How is mission 19 going?
@Cerb hmm...
@Cerberus Finished. Working on 20
23:37
Yes, but not by much...
@simchona Nice. Did you use siege and flying?
@SonicTheHedgehog Still it made me think of it.
there's no place like home :)
The rivers are wrong, but otherwise it looks inspired by it.
@Cerberus A mix of random 1-timer assaults
Indeed not!
23:39
like when I see a kangaroo and think of Britain
@simchona Ah OK.
Hahaha.
Never looked at it like that.
now you'll never not see it muwahahahahahahaha
Well, it could be worse, like something obscene, or a malformed Latin loan word.
bellicophagery?
closes ears
is two paws short
dangles dog treat
jumps
misses, falls down in pile of rubbish
throws treat into bar for cats
likes cat bars
23:45
a Hedgehog jumps in
I'm not sure a hedgehog should be in that type of cat bar, especially a minor hedgehog
what is a cat bar?
Weird... I knew I missed an "a", I try to ignore it, and I can't.
Gasps I'm becoming one of.... you guys
@SonicTheHedgehog Just don't start using "you people". It can actually be pretty offensive.
one of us! one of us!
-1
Q: Why is the pre-fix "in" broken for "invaluable"?

alan2hereefficient accessible consistency articulate considerate conceivable convenient vs inefficient inaccessible inconsistency inarticulate inconsiderate inconceivable inconvenient However valuable to invaluable sits alone, like a trap, not merely an inconvenient irregularity but seemingly almost ...

Peeving.
23:49
@simchona I often see small children in dog and cat bars.
@SonicTheHedgehog Congratulations!!
@Sim how is it peeving?
@simchona Naaaah.
@Cerberus In bars for cats who like cats and dogs who like dogs?
23:49
did someone asked it already?
@SonicTheHedgehog Did you read it?
@SonicTheHedgehog Umm...
@JosephWeissman Yeah that hyphen shouldn't be there.
@Cerberus as an entrée?
@simchona Yes, I assumed that's what you meant.
@MattЭллен Well, I'm not sure that is allowed.
@Cerberus Interesting. Never thought small children would be served there
23:50
Still can't see why it is peeving?
They are just the owner's children or something.
Or a guest's.
@simchona They may be only decoration.
@SonicTheHedgehog The body of the question isn't a question, but really insistent peeving at a "broken" language.
@Cerberus Appetizers
23:52
@MattЭллен (entrée)
should I flag it?
@SonicTheHedgehog Can you please reply to specific messages? I can't follow you
@SonicTheHedgehog You can if you want
@Cerberus (thanks)
@SonicTheHedgehog But only if you agree
Hello everyone.
23:53
@Mah you're back.
@SonicTheHedgehog I left?
@SonicTheHedgehog you're
hi @Mahnax
Hey @Matt.
@sim made me remember this:
23:57
@Cerberus I have been well. I think I'm going to apply to graduate school this year for a masters' in Computer Science!
@SonicTheHedgehog If you remember it, use it :]
@Sim I try.
But habits are hard to break.
Stupid habits grumbles
@SonicTheHedgehog Very true.

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