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01:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

01:34
@MετάEd groan
commits to memory for nephew
@MετάEd isn't that... just a single plex?
 
5 hours later…
06:18
What's a complex then?
06:40
In chemistry, a coordination complex or metal complex consists of a central atom or ion, which is usually metallic and is called the coordination centre, and a surrounding array of bound molecules or ions, that are in turn known as ligands or complexing agents. Many metal-containing compounds, especially those of transition metals, are coordination complexes. == Nomenclature and terminologyEdit == Coordination complexes are so pervasive that their structures and reactions are described in many ways, sometimes confusingly. The atom within a ligand that is bonded to the central metal atom or ion...
07:40
Hey @John
Hey @IͶΔ.
How is you today?
I'm good thanks, you?
I ate a kilogram of cake today.
Feeling great!
That's an oddly specific measurement.
07:43
I'm sometimes more precise than usual.
Le Grand Kilogram?
What kind of cake did you eat a kilogram of?
THAT'S RIGHT PRESCRIPTIVISTS I ENDED A SENTENCE WITH A PREPOSITION, AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
@JohnClifford A delicious kind of cake.
All cake is delicious, I require additional data.
Needed a det. there. (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻
@JohnClifford It wasn't as large as a whale.
07:45
Flipping tables casual af
Was it smaller than a breadbox?
Depends on the breadbox.
Okay, now we're getting somewhere.
What flavour of cake was it?
Strawberry, with extra strawberry
EL&U is being invaded by a crazy Londoner, apparently.
07:57
@JohnClifford Eh?
-3
Q: U gets me blud, or does u by any of those chances not yh?

Federico TortiWhence one individual homokunt weighs a total of 99 squid, and eats one full squid of nachos, is be him percentage 1 of el nachos

-1
Q: Why is hesty an absolute bell end?

Federico TortiCos he is a bell 🔔 And u isn't Lest it be As it were U chatting absolute breeze m9 Take a lap

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported question: Why is hesty an absolute bell end? by Federico Torti on english.stackexchange.com
[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported question: U gets me blud, or does u by any of those chances not yh? by Federico Torti on english.stackexchange.com
08:26
(ノ^◡^)ノ︵ ┻━┻
6
Q: Name for interior design style- room decorated with stuffed animals, animal skins and horns

PHRI would like to know whether there is a term for interior design styles which decorate rooms with stuffed animals, animal skins and horns? Country style seems related but does not seem to quite fit. Taxidermic style seems closer but apparently does not exist. Example sentence: The dining room i...

That sure is a bunch of answers.
(ノ^◡^)ノ︵ ┻━┻
Is there any emotion you don't flip tables with? :P
I'd call it a fancy room.
Hunting lodge is probably the closest I've seen posted there.
08:29
@JohnClifford But, but, BUT table flips are the awesomest creation of mankind! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
But honestly I don't consider that so much an interior design style as a choice of decoration.
@IͶΔ (jk) The junkyard style, if the animals, skins and horns are all stuffed.
Zoo style
If they're stuffed with organic material and moving
What if it's pets that are stuffed with food?
Then that's there's-no-food-left style.
08:33
That's the style I decorate my kitchen in when the cats are around.
I was cutting up chicken for enchiladas last night and Louis kept jumping up on the counter trying to get at it. I swear I was about to turn him into handbags.
It's pretty neat.
There's no waste.
No nothing actually
And that was after giving each cat an entire packet of Felix each (we usually give them a half packet in the evening)
Poor Felix.
I mean, I usually give them all the skeevy bits of chicken that are too bloody or stringy for me to eat anyway, and he was still trying to get at the good stuff.
Bloody cat.
Why can't he be more like JJ? She never jumps up on the counter trying to eat my dinner.
@IͶΔ I can make out the face in the ascii art, but what does the flipped table symbol (and the connecting arc symbol) signify?
08:35
@Lawrence Have you seriously not come across the ASCII flipping-a-table-in-frustration meme? :P
@Lawrence Table flip is an internet meme, lemme find a link for you
@JohnClifford Not really. The face looks rather happy, actually.
That's just INA being silly with it.
Usually it's accompanied with an angry face.
i cannot correct this line
"Also, to inform you that we are in Partners with CISCO."
is it correct?
08:40
"Also, just to [inform you|let you know], we are now in partnership with CISCO."?
@JohnClifford (╯ಠ_ಠ)╯︵ ┻━┻ ​
You put that table right back where it belongs, mister. We've got a dinner party to prepare for!
┬─┬ ノ( ^_^ノ)
thanks @JohnClifford
That's better.
@IͶΔ Thanks!
I feel weird commenting from the review queue on a flagged answer from someone who has more rep than I do.
@Lawrence (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ
It's like I'm calling a teacher out for presenting the material wrong.
@IͶΔ Pokemon?
08:44
Yeah, Pikachu
Speaking of Pokemon, who's getting Pokemon Go when it comes out?
Let's talk so that GIF scrolls off.
It's so hypnotic.
@JohnClifford Not me. My only affiliation with pokemon is that emoticon.
08:45
t
A
L
I'm looking forward to it. I'm a big fan of Ingress, so I think it'll be good fun.
Knowyourmeme is the only site on the Net that's so serious about nonserious things.
It's like when Wikipedia is talking about profanity.
08:46
I dunno, have you ever seen www.mspaintadventures.com?
Hussie plays a lot of stuff in his comics straight as fuck considering how nonsensical it can get. :P
K
E
1
2
Is it gone yet for you guys?
It's gone.
Sorry about that
gifs are nasty in here :(
Hmm, I'm not so sure this does belong on ELL, but I can't decide how to vote.
I suppose lack of research is a valid one.
08:53
@JohnClifford These are times when I sense there's something lacking in ELL's closure policy.
@JohnClifford After going through it a few times, I think the title isolates the problem sufficiently - although there's a legitimate homework call, there's also the alternative that it's really about the jump vs (hadn't known / didn't know) mismatch.
That's what I thought. I went with a closevote for lack of research instead.
@JohnClifford Nopes
Checking it
09:34
@Saladin Also, for your information, we are partners with CISCO.
Hey guys!
\o
I feel I have done something wrong here. "The reader is unable to fully comprehend the MT outcome because of its vague and imprecise structure, and even if they are able to do so, this involves a long process of deduction and absorbs precious time."
What does "MT" stand for?
09:40
and I must apologize to you, becasue, every time I pop up in here I have a sentence to bo corrected. ;( ;D
@JustynaNogala "The reader is unable to fully comprehend the MT outcome because of its vague and imprecise structure and, even if they were able to do so, this would involve a long process of deduction and take up precious time."
Machine Translation of course.
"of course" because that's what everyone thinks of when they see "MT" :P
I think of mountain time :-)
I think of mitochondria.
To each their own...
09:41
what would that supposed to mean? :D
What?
Magic Train
Mountain time. I know that the higher you climb the slower the time passes.
Missile Touch
Masquerade Traffic
Oh.
It is a time zone @JustynaNogala
09:43
@JustynaNogala It's a US time zone
@JustynaNogala Absorbs precious time? Haha
What? ;D the time you spend on doin everything is precious.
I've never heard of time being absorbed.
What's it absorbed into?
why do we say "time-absorbing" ?
@JustynaNogala We don't.
09:46
We say time-consuming.
As terdon has shown change the "are" to "were." @JustynaNogala
Of course, some of those present here apologize that, so nothing is sacred anymore.
oh yeah
my bad :D
Oh don't start with that again @terdon.
@JohnClifford I named no names!
09:47
anyway how can one consume time/.
I apologise that you can't get with the times. XD
cough weirdos cough
We're consuming time right now.
time is an abstract thing.
you can't consume it like a potato.
@JustynaNogala Abstract but not absorbed.
I was reading the discussion about that afterwards terdon, and I think it is likely that it's sort of an amalgamation with "I'm sorry that"
Consumption doesn't have to be physical.
Absorbs time with a sponge
Like, we're not talking about literally eating clocks.
Consume just means use up, deplete.
@JohnClifford We're eating Einstein's relativity.
09:49
@JohnClifford Joking apart, I'm quite intrigued by it. As I said, I've never heard it and would have assumed anyone who used it to be non-native. I also confirmed this with my Dad who is several years older and a native AmE speaker. It might be some kind of BrE thing.
Yummy, yummy relativity.
@terdon I thought the same thing. I'm sure other people here say it too.
along with the bones?
@JohnClifford Well, snailboat found some coca hits but NGrams suggest that apologize that is far, far rarer. Shrugs. Language changes.
09:50
Maybe I'm just the weird guy who apologises that things. That would explain why nobody wants to sit next to me on the bus.
I once accidentally a whole apologised that
@terdon Where?
I'm not seeing any chatting on ELL's Cabin or LO.
13 hours ago, by snailboat
http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=46409432
I saw the discussion earlier when snailboat was looking for it.
09:52
And the messages just after it.
Ahh
I'm just gonna learn Gaelic and get back to my roots, English is nonsense.
Still, even the COCA results show that for is orders of magnitude more common than that:
APOLOGIZE   FOR   1707
APOLOGIZED  FOR    954
APOLOGIZING FOR    490
APOLOGIZES  FOR    174
APOLOGIZED  THAT    22
APOLOGIZE   THAT    17
APOLOGISE   FOR     15
APOLOGIZING THAT    14
APOLOGISED  FOR     11
APOLOGIZES  THAT     8
APOLOGISES  FOR      1
So much so, I would be inclined to put it down to typos or other mistakes.
Oh, I was never disputing that apologise that was more common or even popular.
I do use it intentionally though.
09:55
Fair enough
@JohnClifford Unapologetically, then?
:P
I apologize that "apologize that" gets many COCA results.
I mean, if you're dismissing the "that" results as typos on the basis of those numbers, you'd also have to dismiss the British spelling of apologise. :P
Unapologetically indeed. :)
Apologiszes that
Intriguing indeed @terdon
Did snailboat look for "apologise that" though? If it's BrE that might get more hits.
09:57
@JohnClifford Ha! Fair point, but that is the corpus of contemporary American English.
True.
COCB!
Even in BrE, NGrams show the same thing:
Huh, looking at the actual instances, most seem to be "apologise. That..." or "apologise, that..." as well as a few that are clearly non-natives speaking.
Well if nothing else, I've started an interesting discussion. :)
yes, no need to apologise that that.
::smack:: I apologize for hitting you
10:00
Okay, let's look at it this way. Would you say that "I apologise" and "I'm sorry" are synonymous?
@JohnClifford They can be, yes.
@JohnClifford Mayhaps
And you can say "I'm sorry that [something]", right?
I'm sorry that I hurt you, for example.
Sure. But not apologise :)
So it logically follows that you could say "I apologise that I hurt you."
10:01
But conveying the same meaning doesn't mean having the same usage.
No, it doesn't logically follow.
Language ain't no logical d00d
@JohnClifford No, that's a spurious argument.
Sure is a synonym of certain, but you can't say certain you can come along just because you can say sure you can come along.
Sure in that context is a colloquial usage, though.
Makes no difference.
My point is that just because two words are synonymous, doesn't mean they can replace each other in any sentence without having to rearrange the sentence a bit.
10:04
And if you turn it into the adverb certainly you can use that. :P
I wasn't saying that was a global thing, just that I don't see the problem with doing so in that case.
@JohnClifford Precisely, you need to change it.
@JohnClifford Which suggests that at least some native speakers do say it. It was just news to me, is all.
The difference is that in that sentence "certain" and "sure" do not mean the same thing. In the case under discussion, "I'm sorry" and "I apologise" have exactly the same meaning IMO.
It's interesting that it's a lot less common than I thought it was, though.
I've written a post about it on Facebook to see if I can generate further discussion on the topic.
@JohnClifford I'll see if I can come up with a better one.
Maybe I should post it as a question on EL&U.
But the only answers I'll get are the NGRAM and COCA results. :P
@JohnClifford Nah, if you post a question, you would have to include both the NGRam and COCA results and ask, for example, whether this is a regional variation and if anyone can narrow the usage down to a particular geographical region.
10:08
That is true.
I think I might, actually. Someone might have further information.
Go for it. Let me know, please.
Let's @ter know
Aww
Oh wait.
<epiphany/>
How is it possible?
I just realized how weird it is that these chats generate so much talk.
Can you embed an ngram in a post or do people just take screenshots of the result?
@JohnClifford 2.
10:23
@JohnClifford Also include the link though.
10:34
0
Q: You can apologi(s|z)e *for* something, but can you apologi(s|z)e *that* something?

John CliffordAn interesting discussion came up in the chat following a sentence I suggested in another question where I said something along the lines of "I apologise that I have a prior commitment." or "I apologise that I will be unavailable this evening." To my eye and ear, this is a perfectly valid constr...

11:05
We're still on apologise for vs that? The distinction is like that of vote for vs vote that - e.g. "I vote for my favourite candidate" vs "I vote that my favourite candidate be elected". They're both grammatical, just used differently. E.g. "She apologises for being late" vs "She apologises that she is late".
@Lawrence It's really not that clear. I, and others, would consider I apologise that to be flat our wrong. I would certainly have changed it if I were editing.
Hmm, this is interesting:
You don't apologise that way.
11:31
@terdon Interesting link. I disagree with the rejection of the final line in your presentation - the sentiment is invalid, but it's a grammatical sentence that admits the speaker makes an apology so that or in order that (s)he may be permitted to behave badly. It doesn't convey the idea of the page 23 pair, but equally, that pair doesn't convey the idea of the to construct.
@Lawrence Not sure what you mean. I apologize so that I may be permitted to is fine but not at all the same as I apologize that. It is the latter I find objectionable.
(cont'd) Would it help to state that in apologise for, the word apologise is performative but in apologise that it isn't?
@Lawrence Not really. I guess my problem is that I don't accept (as in, it sounds strange to my ears) the use of apologize as anything but performative (if that's the right term).
@terdon I wasn't linking apologise that with apologise to, just pointing out that I don't agree with the the referenced text's disagreement with apologise that/to, and that the case against apologise to is unfounded, so the case against apologise that can't be taken at face value either. :)
I'm honestly surprised nobody's downvoted the question yet. XD
I've really enjoyed the discussion on it though.
11:38
How is the case against apologize to unfounded? That would only work if you're apologizing to someone or apologizing in order to do something else. You can't apologize to a behavior though.
@terdon How about "He apologises to her"? Surely you'd accept the validity of that "apologise to" construct. But I'd be surprised if you said it was performative in that case.
@terdon "That would only work if you're ... apologizing in order to do something else" - exactly! I might have been somewhat opaque about it, though. Apologies.
@terdon "You can't apologise for a behaviour" - hmm, I thought you were arguing that it was the only way to apologise.
Thanks for your input Lawrence.
@Lawrence That's fine, that's what I meant when I said it would work if you're apologizing to someone.
@Lawrence I'm afraid you might have been, yes :)
@Lawrence Umm. Yes, sorry, I meant to.
By the way, @Lawrence I believe your Greek analysis is flawed.
Combined with Mari-Lou's linked passage, I'm happy that the sentence I wrote is acceptable enough. The apology being made is unambiguous enough that it can't be said I was attempting to divert blame with that construction.
The word may come from Greek but that has no bearing on how it behaves in English. More importantly, the Greek word doesn't actually mean apologize. Certainly not in modern Greek anyway.
Assuming the Ancient meaning is similar, it is closer to explain oneself.
Ah, yes, that's also what the definition you quote says.
11:45
Hmm. There's a question here I want to edit to be clearer from the title what the guy is asking, but if I move that into the title the body of his question is practically nothing.
#firstworldproblems
@JohnClifford the Google ngram web page used to just publish the graphs as images. Now they are jscript interactive maps, so you have to screen shot (as far as I know there's no convenient link for an image)
@Mitch Thanks, I know you can embed them on actual HTML pages but obviously that embed code wouldn't apply on here.
@JohnClifford It's a pleasure. :)
This discussion has actually made me question whether I was ever actually taught to use apologise like this, or whether I mistakenly picked up the idea somewhere and stuck with it. Either way, in this case it wasn't too big a problem. I may consider apologising for things from now on anyway, to avoid such lengthy discussion being generated in the future.
@IͶΔ Absorbs bananas like a fly
11:48
@terdon You've lost me there. I thought we were talking about an English word. If you thought I was discussing Greek, no wonder we couldn't agree :) .
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
@Lawrence I was referring to your answer.
@terdon So was I.
Or is that another Lawrence? The avatar is different.
A link would be helpful.
11:49
0
A: You can apologi(s|z)e *for* something, but can you apologi(s|z)e *that* something?

LawrenceTo apologize (for) corresponds to the Greek ἀπολογεῖσθαι (περί τινος), to speak an accusation (τι, accusative) away (ἀπό) ‘about a thing’ (περί τινος). To apologize that you are late is therefore to deny that you are late. What you wish to do is probably rather to apologize [that you are culpable...

@JohnClifford native speakers are rarely taught things at all. The number of 'rules' of a language is infinite in comparison to the small set presented in school.
I don't necessarily mean at school, just whether it was something taught to me in general.
@terdon Thanks. Definitely a different Lawrence.
I've never questioned the validity of using the word apologise like that.
Yeah, different Lawrence.
@Lawrence Ah. So much for that argument then :)
11:50
That one has 527 rep.
@JohnClifford 'school' shorthand for explicitly getting a rule.
Plus it finally gave me a decent question of my own to ask. XD
'Apologize for a noun'
'Apologize that a noun verbed'
I won't apologise for the noun; it's perfectly capable of making its own decisions.
'Apologize for a noun verbing'
11:53
If it wanted an apology it shouldn't have been caught hanging around with that shady adverb and the infinitive with a splitting problem.
@Mitch So it should.
Somebody above mentioned England and apologizing together and I just want to note that there's no apologizing that or for England
England is a walking apology.
@Mitch Yes, yes, we all know they never apologize but only ever apologise.
@JohnClifford haha infinitives should really see somebody about that. Or just get used to that.
11:55
To idly split an infinitive is not behaviour up with which I would put.
@JohnClifford they should walk some more
Ugh
@JohnClifford I believe you meant to say floating.
Either that or things have really changed since the last time I was living there.
@terdon I'm glad I wasn't so opaque as to have had the language misread :) .
12:00
You have to go to page 5 to find another recent question with as many upvotes as mine. I'm not quite sure what that says about the general quality of the questions we get. :P
Quick question: What is the term used to refer to a thought-through/intended murder?
Premeditated?
@Lawrence That would have taken some doing :)
@JohnClifford Thanks! :)
Wait a second, how do we even have two members called Lawrence? I thought usernames were unique.
Apparently not.
12:04
@JohnClifford Hmm, in light of my namesake placing an actual answer to the question, which Lawrence were you thanking?
You. :P
The other Lawrence was about as much use as a chocolate teapot in Egypt during summer.
@JohnClifford :)
Perhaps I should at least put this up as an answer to your question to clear my name, so to speak.
@JohnClifford Far from it. Look for "John" here: english.stackexchange.com/users
That's entirely your prerogative, but feel free. :)
Oh my god so many Johns
 
4 hours later…
15:54
I could really go for some fried cheese curds right now.
16:05
Does anybody know how to make these fancy quotation marks in Microsoft Office Word?:
I've tried searching but all the results only explain how to change curly quotes to straight quotes
@Leuchte 1. Don't use Word. 2. If you are using Word, just write normal quotes and then increase the font size and change the color.
@terdon I have Indesign but I'm not used to it, so I'm sticking with word this time. Thanks for the answer though
Anonymous
It looks like there's a question about that on Super User:
Anonymous
5
Q: Large quotation marks in Word?

hawbslIs there a simple way in MS Word to get large quotation marks tightly round a paragraph of text, like you might see in print media to mark a quote? If you simply increase the font size of the quote character, it moves too far away from the text it's accompanying. Worse, the first and last lines ...

Thanks @snailboat :)
I never knew snails were that fast
Anonymous
16:09
Don't worry, I can be quite slow from time to time :-)
@Leuchte They're not. They just bave fast boats.
@snailboat What kind of snail uses Word?
Anonymous
I'm afraid I don't actually use Word. All I did was search for a question about Word and quotation marks.
@snailboat I thought they'd use Paint :P
Quick question, this has 19k views, but is voted -6:
-6
Q: Confusing python - Cannot convert string to float

Snail MailI got a value error and even if I try playing around with the code, it doesn't work! How can I get it right? - I am using Python 3.3.2! Here is the code: As you can see, the program asks for how many miles you can walk and gives you a response depending on what you type in. This is the code ...

Any ideas why?
What's more, it's the first result in Google for that error!
16:25
I cropped it for a reason :)
I uncropped it for a reason. :-)
16:47
omgomgomgomg DOOM remake!
Woo!
Anonymous
@Leuchte Poor Professor Layton :-(
That's Dom Professor Laiaute to you. :)
01:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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