English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Daniel δ

01:59

@Jasper Happy ELUnniversary! (this message is two days old - just believe)

Matt Эллен

08:42

It's Monday! And you know what that means? The weekend is over! It's time to get back to W**K! WOOHOO!

Cerberus

Yay!!

Oh, it is so overwhelming.

The joy.

Matt Эллен

so much joy

faints

hi @Cerberus :)

Cerberus

bites you so you will wake up to enjoy the morning

Hi!

Matt Эллен

OW!

thanks

Cerberus

It was a pleasure.

Matt Эллен

08:48

You seem to be up earlier than normal. Have you had a sleeping break though?

Cerberus

I slept 10pm–2am and 7am–9am.

I don't know whether that is better or worse.

I tried forwarding my sleep cycle.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. interesting. I hope it's better :)

Cerberus

So I ended up at a bed time of 10 pm yesterday, but, as usual, I woke up after a few hours and couldn't sleep any more.

Matt Эллен

Then I guess the trick is to stay awake from 2am to 10pm, and go to sleep then. I've only had to do that to stave off jet lag, so I don't know about correcting normal sleeping patterns

or, you could find a place that's doing sleep experiments and be paid to sleep odd hours

MoD often do them here, and other psychology places

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I have been trying something like that, by staying awake for longer than a normal day and trying to sleep for more than 5 hours after that. Hasn't worked during the past few days.

@MattЭллен MoD?

Masters of Dungeons?

Matt Эллен

08:57

@Cerberus Them, and Ministry of Defence :D

Cerberus

Ahh.

I see.

Why they, specifically?

I'm going to take a sleeping pill tonight, I think.

Though it could be that it was the sleeping pills that disturbed my sleep cycle like this (it was bad to begin with, but differently bad).

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I guess they want to find ways of allowing troops to work in weird sleeping patterns

Cerberus

I see.

Matt Эллен

I've not tried sleeping pills. I'm not sure how they work.

Did Eminem get addicted to sleeping pills? Or was that pain killers?

maybe you should try meditation. Just relax yourself before bed time

Cerberus

I read the paper for an hour before going to sleep yesterday. I was completely relaxed, tired, and I fell asleep quickly.

Matt Эллен

09:03

do you know what woke you up?

Cerberus

It's just that I wake up after 3–5 hours. I used to have that only when I went to bed earlier than normal.

@MattЭллен Nothing in particular that I remembered. At the moment I became awake, I was like, oh, I'm awake, and there is no particular reason.

@MattЭллен I tried them, and they are pretty great. When I took half a pill, I slept better, and it was easier to get back to sleep when I woke up at night. It's not as if you would fall asleep immediately after taking a pill; it just helps. Depends on how many you take, of course. But your body gets used to them and gets less sensitive...

So then you want to take more. I didn't want that, so I only took halves, and not every day.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus good plan

Cerberus

Yeah...but I'm thinking I should get a normal cycle first, aided by pills, perhaps, and then stop taking any.

Oh, well.

Millions of people are insomniacs.

This room is often chock full of them.

Matt Эллен

:D

You could run Insomniacs Pseudanonymous

"Hi, my name's Cerberus, I'm an insomniac. I've been getting a regular 4 hours of sleep a night for the past week or so"

Cerberus

Yeah!

Group meeting would be a blast.

Matt Эллен

09:11

maybe a support group will send you to sleep

Cerberus

Everybody dozing off every ten seconds.

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

I'm going to try going to bed early this week, with or without pills, see how that goes. If it doesn't work, I'm going back to the doctor.

Matt Эллен

Hopefully the doctor will know what to do

Cerberus

Yeah we'll see...

Maybe I should also stop eating a few hours before bed time.

Oh, well.

These stupid bodies we're cast in.

Matt Эллен

09:17

aye

Cerberus

Is that even English?

I imagine it as God casting our souls into moulds.

Matt Эллен

I have to not drink anything probably an hour+ before bed, otherwise my bladder wakes me up

Cerberus

Hmm, I understand.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Yes, it's good English

Cerberus

phew

Matt Эллен

09:18

:)

Cerberus

Have you tried just ignoring the feeling and staying put? I usually get over it if I do that, even though it feel like I won't. Of course not drinking is even better.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Yeah, I try and ignore it, but I can't get back to sleep. I always wake up with a dream where I'm urinating!

Cerberus

Hehe.

Rings a bell.

Then no drinkies.

Matt Эллен

Alas

Cerberus

What next will they take away from us?

Matt Эллен

09:25

Pillows

Cerberus

Our computers?

Ohh...

Matt Эллен

we'll be forced to sleep on bricks

Cerberus

Well I can do without a pillow.

Matt Эллен

!!

Cerberus

Hmm bricks, you're sure of that?

That would be uncomfortable.

Matt Эллен

09:25

unless you can rest your head with out it being at an angle

then it'd just be a bed of broken wood

Cerberus

I can sleep on my arm?

Matt Эллен

Yes

Cerberus

OK.

Can I fold up a sweater?

Matt Эллен

I think they will hold all your clothes until you awake

they might even replace the duvet with ants

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Oooh, soothing.

Matt Эллен

09:28

or if you use sheets, then they'll replace those with sands

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Can I use people to sleep on?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus only in brothels

Cerberus

Fine.

Matt Эллен

I believe the ministry of sex has regulations about that

Cerberus

Then I'll pay the fee.

Ah.

Matt Эллен

09:30

I'm not too sure what they are though

Cerberus

And do I need to serve there too, to help the others?

Matt Эллен

It all depends on what your "declared fetishes" are and what you're licensed to practice

Cerberus

Oh shit. I forgot to renew my licenses.

Matt Эллен

!!

Cerberus

And to declare my fetishes.

I just assumed it would be OK as long as I smiled a lot.

And such.

Matt Эллен

09:32

All this bureaucracy makes things more complicated

Cerberus

I know.

Including flirting.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Aye, there was that loophole for a while

Cerberus

So they closed it up, huh.

Matt Эллен

Yeah, there was a case of people walking around with smiles permanently on their faces, it was creepy

Cerberus

Were the smiles in fact scars from cuts rubbed in with chemicals?

Matt Эллен

09:34

then there was the problems with defining what a smile actually was

@Cerberus Well, that was how some pimps were getting around the regulations

Cerberus

I see.

Matt Эллен

Ahhhh! Yes :D

Cerberus

Is that Borat, by the way?

Matt Эллен

Certainly the guy who plays him. Probably Borat

Cerberus

Hehe.

Matt Эллен

09:36

I haven't seen enough Borat to be sure

Cerberus

Looks like Borat to me.

Not sissy wussy Sacha.

I mean, he is a Jew.

Matt Эллен

He is a Jew.

I believe his brother is a noted psychologist

Cerberus

Cousin.

And he read history! Very good.

(Reading Wiki, obviously.)

Matt Эллен

I see! Well, there you go. I don't know a lot about him :)

Cerberus

I less.

Matt Эллен

09:50

migrate to writers?

6

Q: What are the rules for splitting words at the end of a line?

What are the rules in English language to split words at the end of a line? Where exactly must the hyphen split the word?

@Cerberus what do you think of this call for winter cleaning?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hmm I dunno.

@MattЭллен I am against it.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I thought you might be. You prefer thing the way they were?

before gen ref and TPTB's call to close "easy" questions

Cerberus

For the same reason I always stir my tail in this very room: the rules and criteria are quite arbitrary. They change too. If an old question was deemed interesting enough at the time let it be—don't try to apply this week's rules to last year's questions.

@MattЭллен I think we have some great list questions on the site, for example. Like the one about words that are commonly mispronounced by educated speakers.

The most-upvoted answer was hai-PUH-buh-lee, but there was a long list of other good examples too.

Is.

Matt Эллен

Pops out to meeting

Cerberus

Bai!

Matt Эллен

10:29

here's a good resource for people to learn pronunciation: Pronunciation Manual

Matt Эллен

11:03

I love working here - a place where "reverse the polarity" is sometimes the solution

Cerberus

12:27

Oh?

Of what? Magnets? The earth?

Matt Эллен

Magnets

in this context

"Reverse the polarity" is a Star Trek meme

Cerberus

Ah...of the shields?

Matt Эллен

Yeah, or other sc-fi sounding stuff :)

The Deflector Array, the Port Ncell, the Phaser

The chronoton particle beam

Lunch!

Cerberus

Hehe, that does sound familiar.

Later!

Kitḫ

12:47

@MattЭллен Don't forget about tachyon particle dispersal.

user19161

@Danielδ Thanks for the presents!

user19161

13:06

@MattЭллен How was lunch?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy good ta. How was dinner?

user19161

@MattЭллен Good. I had the usual rice, chicken, egg and veg.

user19161

Xmas is just next Sun.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ Hahaha :D

user19161

I wonder why so many calendars start with Sun in the row when Mon is the first day of the week by ISO standards.

Matt Эллен

13:09

@JasperLoy That's the problem with using next. I immediatly thought of the next Sunday, which is the 18th. But I wonder if next Sunday really means the Sunday after that?

Kitḫ

Because Americans start their week with God.

user19161

@Kitḫ And the world follows Big Brother.

Kitḫ

24

Q: Which day does "next Tuesday" refer to?

At what point does next Tuesday mean the next Tuesday that will come to pass and no longer the Tuesday after the Tuesday that will come to pass`? And, when does the meaning switch back?

meaning idioms time

user19161

@MattЭллен immediately

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ I'm with Albert Herring

user19161

13:11

@MattЭллен I read up on this some time ago and decided to stick to this convention for myself at least. I use next to mean of the next week where Mon is the first day of the week.

Matt Эллен

but then, I'm a programmer

user19161

@MattЭллен I'm a lunatic.

Kitḫ

> This assumes that I know what day it is, which cannot always be relied on.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ :D Quite

Kitḫ

This I agree with.

user19161

13:13

Of course if I were talking to another person I would just use the date to avoid ambiguity.

user19161

Though I would still use next as well.

Kitḫ

Speaking of programming, anybody remember what I was doing?

user19161

@Kitḫ Some user database.

Kitḫ

More specifically than that, I mean.

Matt Эллен

But then, because Christmas is only a week and 6 days away, I think next Christmas would refer to Christmas 2012

user19161

13:16

@Kitḫ Nope.

Kitḫ

It's not 2012?

Shit. Gotta return those calendars.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ were you removing all test users from the production DB?

Kitḫ

No, no. I'm looking at my notes...

user19161

@MattЭллен Well, I would not use next Christmas in conversation, but it seems I prefer for it to be 2012 even if it were New Year's day.

user19161

@Kitḫ Your notebook now is only filled with chat material since you are always making notes.

user19161

13:19

I remember you said your notebook is quite large.

Cerberus

Hi.

user19161

@Cerberus Boo!

Cerberus

Sunday used to be the first day of the week until recent times.

It had been for centuries, probably millennia.

Matt Эллен

Aye, the Sabbath (Jewish holy day, and thus last day of the week) was always a Saturday

Cerberus

Right. And Muslims have Friday.

And Startrek has Reverse-Polarity Day.

Matt Эллен

13:27

:D

user19161

I have sundaes.

Matt Эллен

I wonder what day pastafarians use...

another meeting!

Cerberus

Good luck!

@Kit: Hey, at what age would you let your kids have a Facebook profile?

Kitḫ

@Cerberus They have one now.

Why do you ask?

Cerberus

Really?

How old are they again?

Kitḫ

13:34

Almost 4 and 1-1/2.

Cerberus

Huh.

Kitḫ

The oldest will be 4 in February.

Cerberus

So you made those pages for them?

Why?

Kitḫ

Because I don't want to be FB friends with the majority of my relatives, and because I don't want my FB page to be all about what my children are doing. This way, my children's news is announced to the people who are interested, and I can focus on them and only them on their own page.

Cerberus

Ah, I see.

Why do you need to announce news about them?

Kitḫ

13:38

Because they are my children, and I am very proud of them.

And there are actually some people who care.

Or who want to see cute pictures.

Cerberus

Okay.

So it's like those people who keep some sort of weblog when they're travelling.

But at what age would you let them manage their own page, with their own friends etc.?

Kitḫ

With supervision, whenever he's old enough to want to.

Without supervision, after the age of majority.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Kitḫ

Which will hopefully correspond with moving out of the house.

Why?

Cerberus

So supervision means you will be sitting next to them at the PC?

Kitḫ

13:41

The degree of supervision depends on the age.

Cerberus

How about when they are 8?

Kitḫ

When they are small, yes.

Eight? I don't know. My kids aren't that old yet.

Probably regular checks, but not sitting next to them.

Cerberus

I was asking because of this:

freewaregenius.com/2011/12/11/…

I posted a critical comment, but I had no idea children would even consider Facebook at 8.

Kitḫ

My nephew is 9, and has a FB account.

And uses it.

Cerberus

I don't know, it seems silly.

Kitḫ

13:44

That software sounds silly to me though.

Cerberus

It does to me.

But why do kids need Facebook so young?

It was designed for adults.

Kitḫ

"Here's a way to monitor your child's FB account, which is exactly the same as if you were looking at their account, which you can do if you have their email and password, which is required for this program."

Cerberus

That was what I thought too.

Perhaps the idea is that it sends you a nice digest.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus I agree that a social site geared toward kids would be a great idea.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ I believe they exist.

Kitḫ

13:46

@Cerberus Maybe. I would trust myself more.

Cerberus

I suppose the internet is so new that parents have no idea how to handle it.

My first intuition would be to just let them do what they want.

You just tell them not to talk to strangers and such.

Kitḫ

Well, you are naive.

And your comment marks you as obviously not an American parent.

Cyber-bullying has been a really big issue here recently.

And also, minors being lured by strangers online.

Cerberus

Lured? How often does that happen?

Kitḫ

I don't intend to cyberstalk my children, but I do plan to be as aware as possible about the decisions they are facing and how they are being treated.

Cerberus

Yes, I understand; but how far will you go?

Kitḫ

13:51

@Cerberus shrugs Two teenage girls in the last few months went off with older men that they had met online.

@Cerberus It depends on how my children are, and what they are faced with.

Would I read my kid's diary? I might, if I knew something was really wrong and he wasn't talking to me about it.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Well, that's teenagers. They have the freedom to go places: very hard to control that. And is that's two girls out of ten million?

@Kitḫ I agree.

Kitḫ

FB is much more public than that, and if my kids think they are hiding something from me by posting it to all their friends, then they need to learn a good lesson about it.

Cerberus

Sure, it's always OK to check their public pages.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Maybe a hundred thousand.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ What? In what population?

Kitḫ

13:54

My home state.

Cerberus

Even so, I think it is extremely rare, especially with well-behaved children.

If you child displays other wildly irresponsible behaviour, that should be a red flag. But otherwise, is it really something you should be watching out for?

Kitḫ

It's possible, @Cerb, but I was a very well-behaved child and I was in several situations that were difficult.

It's not about my kids being irresponsible or not; it is that they are not experienced.

Cerberus

But how is it different to telling children not to talk to strangers on the street?

If anything, I should think it was less dangerous.

(Bullying is a whole different story.)

Kitḫ

What if the stranger says they are your guidance counselor?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2

Q: What is the plural form of "SMS"?

What's the plural form of "SMS" (if X), like: I'm concerned, I sent him over a million X but got no response. I usually use text message to get rid of that situation.

word-choice grammatical-number

Kitḫ

13:56

Is your friend's uncle a stranger?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

dupe

Kitḫ

It is much, much harder for kids to tell these days.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Mommy explained to you how you should deal with such things.

Kitḫ

43 secs ago, by Kitḫ

Is your friend's uncle a stranger?

Cerberus

Your friend's uncle could take you for a walk in the garden at a party too.

Kitḫ

13:58

Maybe.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ No, dear child, your friend's uncle is not a stranger; but with non-strangers there are guidelines too.

Kitḫ

I am on the verge of telling my eldest that it is actually OK to talk to strangers.

It is a stupid rule.

Cerberus

Oh, right.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…