English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

15:00

@Cerberus depends on what Y is. if Y is an interface, then a likely candidate for Y should appear in the instantiation. If Y is a concrete class, then an instantiation of it should appear.

Cerberus

Ehm I'm sorry, I have no idea what those words mean.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So: List<X> list = new ArrayList<X>();, Map<X,Y> map = new HashMap<X,Y>();, but Pair<X,Y> pair = new Pair<X,Y>()

I can explain if you're interested (puts teaching hat on)

Cerberus

Hehe.

I have to go in 5 mins.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ah. takes off hat

Cerberus

But I would be interested when I get back.

Kitḫ

15:03

@MattЭллен I think this is a dupe.

But maybe on the Writers site.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Suffice to say, the code editor should be able to guess/figure out this stuff. And in Java 7 the compiler DOES do that, to a degree. It's slightly more complicated than "search/replace" unless we just have lots of rules for the various X<Y> x's

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ Possibly so. Could also be gen ref, with the w3c page being the answer and all

aedia λ

@Kitḫ I think it's a dupe of a question on UX if only I can find it...

38

Q: Why shouldn't we use the word 'here' in a textlink

Over the years of surfing on the web I have found numerous examples of people telling to not use the word "here" in a textlink. Personally I like the idea of using the word, because it is so straightforward for your visitors to know where to click. The only reason that I can truly think of is fo...

Might be what I'm thinking of

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm declaring a personal moratorium on voting stuff as OT/Gen-ref unless it's WAY WAY out in OT/Gen-ref category.

Kitḫ

6

Q: What style suggestions are common for which words are used in hyperlinks?

With a purpose of avoiding "More details here" style links that do not provide any information in the link itself, what styles are common/popular/suggested? A good example case (with bold as the potential link): John Q. claims that pigs can fly. John Q. claims that pigs can fly. Jo...

style

This was the one I'm thinking of.

Matt Эллен

15:05

@Kitḫ good find!

I've added a comment

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

This is why there should be only one stack site, with tags/sections to separate the different topics.

Matt Эллен

and now I've deleted a comment

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Then we could close a Q as a dupe of another site's Q

Cerberus

So the similarity between those three things is X<Y> should turn into X<Y> X = new (A)X<Y>();, where A is different for each X? So how many of these different X's and A's are there?

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Amen. I don't understand why they have to be different "sites" from the users' perspective.

Kitḫ

15:08

Frigging people! How else are we going to rule our own domain?

aedia λ

@Kitḫ That's it!

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I think that would take away from reputation and would make it more difficult to galvanise a community around one topic

if you've got 20000 reps, what good is that on a conglomerated site? At least with one site per topic there's a possibility the high rep person answering knows what they're talking about.

Kitḫ

Except for on EL&U of course.

Where we have so many high rep people who don't know what they are talking about.

Cerberus

No?

How high?

Matt Эллен

I never know what I'm talking about, and I've not even got that high rep

Ed Guiness

15:13

I don't consider my rep as high, but I mostly don't know what I'm talking about. Except when it comes to puddin's

Cerberus

Okay I'm off for a bit, later!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, it's not X<Y> = new (A)X... more like X<Y> x = new Z<Y> where Z may be similar to X. And the list of all X,Y,Z is open-ended.

Kitḫ

I would say there are at least 8 10K+ users who got there based on wrong answers, copypasta, or just plain spam.

Matt Эллен

cya @Cerberus

Kitḫ

Of course, one of them is no longer with us.

And I include myself in that count.

aedia λ

15:15

@MattЭллен Yeah, but the thing is, you know you don't know what you're talking about well enough not to blurt brain garbage all over the site constantly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен They already answered this question by having the facebook SO.

Kitḫ

Bye @Cerb!

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ I try and keep it in check :)

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Okay, then that means you should specify all of X, Y, and Z every time you need this string?

Kitḫ

@aediaλ Exactly!

aedia λ

15:16

@Cerberus Hasta pronto!

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Lies.

Bye!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it's complicated.

Cerberus

I'll be back in 45 minutes or so.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK, well, if you can give me a regex that does what you need, AHK can do it automatically.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus we'll continue your education then

Cerberus

OK, hehe.

Bai!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:17

bye

aedia λ

@Kitḫ Nuh uh. Your spam is of extremely high quality. nibbles fennec tail

Kitḫ

@aediaλ giggles

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен I think they could build topic areas and have per-topic moderators, experts, etc, but it really should be a single site with multiple subject areas.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 And rep?

user19161

@Cerberus Bye! Don't come back to say bye!

Kitḫ

15:19

But I mean really; I got some ridiculous amount of rep out of single word requests, which are basically thesaurus suggestions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Like, separating "programmers" from SO? really?

@MattЭллен well, the facebook.SO filters the rep based on whether you earned that rep on relevant tags

so on facebook.SO you only see facebook-related rep

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't agree that that's a reason to stop segregation by topic. The Facebook SO is still about solving programming problems, just the same as the rest of SO. It's basically a collection of related tags. I can't think a good analogue for English, maybe if the OED asked for a collection of tags to be put into "oed.english.stackexchange.com"

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wait facebook has rep???

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I see all my rep in the header bar on FB SO. how do you mean filters rep?

user19161

@mahnax Boo!

Mahnax

15:21

Hi all!

@JasperLoy hides

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен just expand the model one step further: facebook.so is a subset of so, but so is a subset of SE, and we have lots of SE "sites". except that they are separate sites and not the same site.

@MattЭллен See here: blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/08/facebook-stackoverflow

aedia λ

@MattЭллен But SO is now part of a larger thing: solving people's problems. Imagine, then, that that is just filtered by whether you want to look at languages, or bicycles, or programming, or castles...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Jinx (ish)!

Mahnax

@Jasper I noticed you had chicken last night.

aedia λ

BRB (hopefully).

user19161

@Mahnax No just now, and my tenth post is up. I wrote about SE. And I also added links in all my posts.

Mahnax

15:23

@JasperLoy Oh, just now? Well how was it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

For example, on facebook.stackoverflow.com/users?tab=reputation&filter=all you can see user "genesis" has 1600-odd rep. But on SO he has 24k.

user19161

@Mahnax Good as usual. I had two thighs as written.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Nice. Last night at work, I made a chimichanga for my break.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm ok with there being separate themes for the separate topic areas, but migrating a question should be just about changing the tag. There should be only one meta, or maybe topic-specific metas which are identified by [meta] [elu] or [meta] [programming]

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I see. I did not know it exists. I thought you were talking about FB itself!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:26

@JasperLoy heheh Facebook has "friends" instead of "rep" :)

Mahnax

@JasperLoy same here! @MrShinyandNew Where did you find that?

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Like different portals for different categories?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ yeah basically

Kitḫ

OK, yeah. That would be pretty efficient.

Pointers and all.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Instead we have dozens of accounts, and logins, your user ID is different on different sites, you can even have different usernames/pics

Kitḫ

15:26

Easy upkeep.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And I'm interested in several topic areas, but I have to visit 6-10 sites to see them all, instead of one site.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I prefer separate sites, so that users know where they are and what they're getting. The implementation of that isn't so important. The way the sites communicate between each other at a moderation level does need improving.

user19161

@Mahnax What's a chimichanga? And what time does school start?

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 you'd need to click on something to switch your tag filtering anyway - unless you're suggesting that it should all be presented to everyone at once, which I think could not ever work

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен well, personally, I find it a bit odd that all of these sites have separate databases (essentially). But I don't care about that.

Mahnax

15:28

@JasperLoy Deep fried burrito. It's delicious. And in about 15 minutes.

My school has usable internet, even for foreign computers (e.g. my MBP)

user19161

@Mahnax School here starts one hour earlier. Ridiculous IMHO.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Just because SOME people are only interested in cooking, doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to visit stackexcange.com and see questions from all the topics I care about. If I want to drink from a firehose that's my business. INstead, I only visit maybe 4 topics and the rest languish.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy At 7:40??

user19161

@Mahnax Exactly. Ridiculously early IMAO.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy That would suck. To be blunt.

Matt Эллен

15:30

@MrShinyandNew安宇 you can visit SE.com and see questions from everywhere else

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен but I'm not logged into all the other SE sites automatically, etc.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy What's the A?

user19161

@Mahnax in my humble/arrogant opinion

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Haha, nice.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

anyway.

time for work.

Matt Эллен

15:31

@MrShinyandNew安宇 true, but once you're logged into one, SE will log you in to any one you visit automatically. It would be nice to be able to log at SE

user19161

@Mahnax I did not invent this one, it's well-known.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен only if you have created an account on the other site.

user19161

Just like RTFM. I did invent CTFD though.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 oh, yeah

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Hmm. I have much to learn.

user19161

15:32

@mahnax I see you are kind of symmetrical too if you take away the colours of the globe.

user19161

@Mahnax We all do. But sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Ignorance is bliss until you need to know something.

user19161

@Mahnax Some things you wish you never knew sometimes, maybe.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy That is very true.

user19161

50

A: How to say "She/He is my girlfriend/boyfriend" without the possessive "my"

There is nothing wrong with using my. Saying my medical appointment does not mean the medical appointment belongs to me; it just means the medical appointment is connected to me in some way. Stick to my; there is no alternative which expresses my girlfriend succinctly.

user19161

15:36

I think the upvotes are ridiculous!

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Woah!

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy romance is a popular subject!

user19161

They should at least wait till tmr since I capped!

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Awww.

user19161

@MattЭллен So just answer all the sex, boob, romance questions!

user19161

15:39

This will be my first Xmas in chat room. I wasn't here last year. Wonder if there'll be some party here.

Mahnax

Jon Skeet has over 600k in up votes that he couldn't receive due to rep cap.

@JasperLoy I hope so >(^-^)<

Matt Эллен

He is unbelievably knowledgeable about programming

Mahnax

@MattЭллен It's disturbing, really.

He's a guru!

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax indeed

user19161

@Mahnax Mahnax has over 100 Mariahs who do not dare to confess to him.

Mahnax

15:42

@JasperLoy Really...

user19161

@Mahnax Interestingly gundu here means idiot, so sort of opposite of guru.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Sound the same, mean different.

user19161

@Mahnax I chose the Georgia font for my blog. It's nice.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy I think that question should be closed.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Hmm. I think I picked Arial.

user19161

15:43

@RegDwightѬſ道 Hmm, but what reason? Gen ref maybe.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

No.

Mahnax

@RegDwightѬſ道 When I first saw it, I thought it was pretty silly.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

NARQ.

user19161

@Mahnax Arial is the default.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Oh okay.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:44

It's a complex question. He assumes facts that are not there.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Well nobody will blame you really so go ahead.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Plus, "re-write this sentence for me" is off-topic anyway.

user19161

@Mahnax I kept changing the layout, taking into consideration that some of my lines with code are long and should not be broken, and that people may be reading this on narrow screens.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy I see.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

"I think saying 'this is a dog' makes me a Communist Nazi Traitor, because of the word 'is'. How can I reword?"

Bang, a dozen answers from passersby.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:47

@RegDwight: Let's just leave this place and go play in the Lego room.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I must leave anyway cause I gotta commute.

hippietrail

is there a @Cerberus in the house?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Anyway I speculate that my blog hits from Russia might be due to your tweeting it in Russian and attracting Russian visitors.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@hippietrail he left a few mins ago

Kitḫ

@hippietrail He'll be back in about 45 minutes.

user19161

15:48

@Kitḫ You are monitoring him with satellite?

user19161

Only Obama does that to Osama.

Kitḫ

32 mins ago, by Cerberus

I'll be back in 45 minutes or so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy More like, informing people about what Cerb said

Mahnax

Osama is dead!

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy not anymore

hippietrail

15:48

no worries. i just wanted to pop in here to show i'm not as grumpy as i sometimes seem in site comments about the "data" singular/plural/mass noun stuff

user19161

And maybe Osama does that to Obama too.

Mahnax

So he'll be back in 13 minutes?

user19161

@Mahnax He might never have existed.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy I do not read your blog, I can't remember the last time I wrote anything in Russian, and you know how long the pole is I'm not touching Twitter with. But other than that, you're spot on.

3

Kitḫ

@Mahnax No.

You have to do a Cerb time to real time conversion.

Mahnax

15:50

@Kitḫ Oh, he's one of those temporally confused people?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Anyway, I'm not gonna miss two bussae's in a row. So laters.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 au revoir!

Kitḫ

@Mahnax He's, um, how shall it say it, temporally challenged.

Mahnax

@Kitḫ Aww.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Bye!

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh that's good news actually, shows that there are visitors other than those gotten in that manner.

user19161

15:53

1

Q: Is there a word for a non-geek?

I am looking for a term which clearly defines somebody as a non-geek, without being derogatory. The best example I have seen is muggle, but it needs context to be understood, as in "You don't meet many muggles at a comic convention", or "even my muggle friends like my autologlyph fractal decal". ...

single-word-requests

user19161

I think this will attract a lot of attention.

Kitḫ

Did you see my comment?

user19161

@Kitḫ I just did.

Kitḫ

It was a joke for programmers.

user19161

Which I just found out.

user19161

15:55

Not funny, unlike me.

Mahnax

@Kitḫ I got it! Nice.

user19161

@Mahnax Not as nice as my jokes, hehehehe.

Kitḫ

@JasperLoy I meant funny "ha ha," not funny "strange."

user19161

@Kitḫ That is funny.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Hah!

user19161

15:59

I am getting better at understanding others' jokes now.

Mahnax

Now that was funny! :P

user19161

@Mahnax I believe your school has started!

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Yup! I'm multi-tasking. JavaScript and chat!

JSBᾶngs

can someone here explain the CTFD theme going on in our starred comments?

Mahnax

@JSBᾶngs Check transcript for definition.

5

user19161

16:03

@JSBᾶngs Let me explain.

JSBᾶngs

calm the frack down? is that the original?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy I think my explanation was good enough, and a CTFD at that.

@JSBᾶngs And check the f*cking dictionary.

JSBᾶngs

ah, good. so CTFD is our RTFM

user19161

I invented ctfd=check the f dictionary but found out later it was already in urban dict as calm the f down.

user19161

Jinx.

user19161

16:06

So note: the etymology should be quoted in etymonline as calm the f down (UD) and check the f dict (JLO ELU chat 2011).

user19161

I assert copyright.

Kitḫ

0

A: Is there a word for a non-geek?

It doesn't exactly mean "non-geek," but the word neophyte is a really nice way to say "beginner" or recently initiated, and I think it fits your context well.

I get a chance to plug neophyte, which is one of my favorites!

user19161

@Kitḫ I gave everyone some beer.

user19161

Sometimes I see a highly voted answer and one with zero. I feel quite bad for the person so I give him some beer.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ congrats!

Kitḫ

16:09

OK, lunchtime. AFK Back later.

user19161

@JSBᾶngs You finally came out from your vegetation.

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy i've been online, but with my laptop which for some reason is incapable of logging on to chat

Mahnax

@Kitḫ Bye!

@JSBᾶngs What kind of laptop is it?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Let me help you. Log in, go to english.stackexchange.com/users/chat-stackexchange-login and login from there.

user19161

That's the only method which works for me.

user19161

16:12

@Mahnax One meant to be placed on top of your lap.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy -_-

user19161

@Mahnax I did not know that Java != JavaScript.

user19161

JavaScript

JavaScript is a prototype-based scripting language that is dynamic, weakly typed and has first-class functions. It is a multi-paradigm language, supporting object-oriented, imperative, and functional programming styles. JavaScript was formalized in the ECMAScript language standard and is primarily used in the form of client-side JavaScript, implemented as part of a Web browser in order to provide enhanced user interfaces and dynamic websites. This enables programmatic access to computational objects within a host environment. JavaScript's use in applications outside Web pages ...

Mahnax

@JasperLoy They are entirely different.

user19161

Java (programming language)

Java is a programming language originally developed by James Gosling at Sun Microsystems (which has since merged into Oracle Corporation) and released in 1995 as a core component of Sun Microsystems' Java platform. The language derives much of its syntax from C and C++ but has a simpler object model and fewer low-level facilities. Java applications are typically compiled to bytecode (class file) that can run on any [[Java Vir

user19161

16:22

@Mahnax But it seems both have something to do with web pages?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Ehhh. Sometimes. JavaScript is almost entirely for the web.

Java can be used to make applications.

Matt Эллен

you can make web pages with Java (on the server side) and also make components for webpages (applets). Javascript is used for manipulating the Document Object Model of web pages, once they are loaded. It has no direct access to the server.

when JavaScript is used for web pages, that is

user19161

@MattЭллен Hear, hear. There, there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Java and Javascript have as much in common as Java (the language) and Java (the coffee), i.e. similar naming.

Matt Эллен

we need 7 more history questions to be one tag closer to unlocking [badge:generalist]

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

16:26

I'd say it's incorrect to say that Java "has something to do with web pages". It's a general purpose tool.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I just realised why the Linux Java is called IcedTea, because Java is hot coffee!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy yes

Java has lots of coffee-puns. Java programs are stored in jars. Java objects are called beans. Um... there are more but I forget them.

Cerberus

Hi!

He just came home @Hippie.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Greetings!

Cerberus

Hi!

user19161

16:33

@Cerberus Woof!

user19161

@Cerberus Arf!

Cerberus

Waf!

Hi User.

Mahnax

@NullUserException We have been graced with the presence of an SO mod.

user19161

@MattЭллен If I say woof to cerb what can I say to the tadpole?

NullUserException

@MattЭллен for example

verbs

Matt Эллен

16:38

@JasperLoy ribbit?

NullUserException

@Mahnax Oh hai

Matt Эллен

@NullUserException I see

Mahnax

@NullUserException You were one of the ones I voted for.

Matt Эллен

hey! my stuff's been deleted!

:D

NullUserException

@Mahnax Thanks, I actually never expected to win

@MattЭллен Yes, I have mod powers on all chat rooms

user19161

16:40

@MattЭллен Huh? How come everyone deleted their stuff?

user19161

@NullUserException OIC.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy they didn't. It seems there's a power hungry mod in the room!

Mahnax

@NullUserException After the first round, I expected you would.

NullUserException

@Mahnax There were 5 people ahead of me; and there only 4 spots

Mahnax

@NullUserException I know, but I still thought you would make it in.

user19161

16:46

@Mahnax Do you have lunch in your school canteen?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy No. I eat with my friends in a hallway near my locker.

user19161

@Mahnax Really? But where do you get the food from?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy I make my lunch at home, usually KFC leftovers, and bring it with me.

user19161

@Mahnax Good good.

user19161

Hello @martha.

Mahnax

16:50

@JasperLoy Yup. Usually, I bring 2-3 pieces of chicken, an apple, two mandarin oranges, a yogourt, and two cookies.

Hi @Martha!

aedia λ

@Cerberus Woef!

Marthaª

Hi folks. Just wanted to alert those who have blog powers that I've posted a very short article for review.

Matt Эллен

look forward to seeing it!

so far as I know only waiwai has approval powers

user19161

@Marthaª What is the topic?

user19161

@MattЭллен as far

Matt Эллен

16:53

@JasperLoy as far as what?

user19161

@MattЭллен *so far

Marthaª

@JasperLoy Misuses of language in ads. I only have three examples, so if anyone wants to add ideas...

Cerberus

@aediaλ licks

user19161

@Marthaª You can add "Trespassers will be fine", just go ahead if you want.

aedia λ

@JasperLoy So far as is just as normal as as far as for me. It isn't for you?

Matt Эллен

16:54

@JasperLoy weight of usage in the general population sinks your attempt at correction

user19161

@aediaλ Oh I thought as must be paired with as.

Cerberus

@aediaλ I agree.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Heeeeehee that tickles!

Marthaª

What I have is "style is an option, clean is not", "more [stuff], less doors", and "unbig, uncar".

Cerberus

@aediaλ But no tingling?

Matt Эллен

16:54

@JasperLoy as far as probably makes more sense, from a logical standpoint

Marthaª

@JasperLoy Is that in an ad for something?

aedia λ

@Martha I asked about transitive shop a while ago, but I don't know if that really fits your theme.

user19161

@Marthaª No, just a message I often see at construction sites.

user19161

@MattЭллен But so far as does appear in my favourites D's.

Marthaª

@aediaλ Maybe... can you think of a commercial that uses "shop" transitively?

Matt Эллен

16:58

@Marthaª There's the mathematically confounding save up to X% or more

user19161

@Mahnax I hate oranges and apples. I only eat bananas.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy And I hate bananas.

aedia λ

And the inaccurate All Sofas Must Go!

And doorbuster. What a weird word.

user19161

@Mahnax We are similar and different.

aedia λ

@Cerberus tries and fails to imagine feeling the tingling

Matt Эллен

16:59

@aediaλ ! sounds violent

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Indeed.

aedia λ

@Marthaª Hmm...

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…