English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:58

Apparently, this is real (and accidental).

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/10/…

tchrist

01:24

-2

Q: How to express the call of nature to other?

To seniors, to juniors, to friends. (Pls provide with polite and impolite expressions)

word-usage

I claim bigotry against the freshmen and sophomores.

Obsessions with juniors and seniors never led to anything good.

tchrist

02:31

4

Q: How and when was Portugal created?

We all know that the Iberian peninsula is separated between two major countries Spain and Portugal. My question is when and how did the country now known as Portugal formed, I mean yes they have an own language which is very similar to the Galicean language in western Spain and not that much far...

language spain portugal

RegDwigнt

09:32

“Arabian Street Artists” Bomb Homeland: Why We Hacked an Award-Winning Series

tchrist

10:43

@RegDwigнt While I completely share the sentiments from your pls comment, it is a bit harsh.

At least, to put into a lasting form.

RegDwigнt

Actio et reactio.

My comment is very civil. The only harsh part about it is a quote.

But yes, of course I was prepared for just this criticism.

tchrist

I'm not chastising.

I'm commenting.

I'm just worried that someone who isn't me will flag it.

I imagine some seven-year-old bringing a hand-written note allegedly from their parents saying "Pls axcuze Youlanda from jim class today."

RegDwigнt

I know; and I know; and I was expecting just that but so far it's not happened.

But just because it's you, and just because it's Valentine's Day, I went and edited.

tchrist

Yesterday was not my birthday.

RegDwigнt

Well, you're missing out, then.

tchrist

10:56

Therefore today cannot be St. Valentine's Day.

RegDwigнt

Every sane person took measures to not not have their birthday yesterday.

tchrist

It's my mother's birthday today.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist yes yes I got it the first time round.

@tchrist fo real now or what.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Yes, for real, which is why I thought it odd that my mother would have been born the day after me.

RegDwigнt

I'm pretty much free of all birthdays for the next five months.

A friend or two here and there, but that's about it.

tchrist

10:58

You forgot the baby jeebitz.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist My brother's birthday is one day after my mother's.

tchrist

Well, at least that's in the right order.

RegDwigнt

Also, one day before the International Women's Day.

Quite skilled timing, if you ask me.

@tchrist I'm not sure what you're up to with that logic. If that were the rules, humanity would end after 364 generations at most.

Or we'd have to have years of one million days.

tchrist

When I was a very small child in the first grade, I thought that the fact that there was another boy in my small twenty-person class with the same birthday as me was so outrageously coincidental that it must Mean something.

It would be some years before I had enough math to see why was silly.

Well, to concretely see why.

RegDwigнt

In my class, we had four other children with the same first name as me. So I guess I got vaccinated against any "it must mean something" nonsense very early on.

tchrist

11:03

Oh yes, there were four Toms.

Johan Larsson

Tom, what does your new avatar ~mean?

mean is the wrong word

tchrist

It means that I am the complement of a purple square.

RegDwigнt

What does your new avatar not mean?

Matt E. Эллен

I does not mean you are a banana

RegDwigнt

Rats.

I so wished it did.

tchrist

11:05

Happy to see you, too.

Matt E. Эллен

yay!

tchrist

I conjecture that there exists a great gulf between the people who use pls etc and those who do not, but I am not sure exactly why or where this comes from. I say this because at $job where most devs are remote, we depend on team chatrooms for routine interactions. Yet I have never once seen anyone use "pls finish ur code review" type stuff. And you won't find that stuff in git logs either.

You don't get it in mail, either.

RegDwigнt

im plsd to here dat

tchrist

The most neutral thing I can say about it is that it is a form of communication that separates in-groups and out-groups to the extent that those who use it want to be like others who use it, and those who don't want not to be like those who do, but that this is so unconscious that nobody realizes they are setting people up for a great deal of contemptuous regard when they use such things.

RegDwigнt

As a mathematician, I actually find it mind-boggling how many abbreviations of thanks people can come up with. I see an all-new one almost every week.

Most recent additions: tx and tsk.

tchrist

11:17

I've seen tx but not tsk.

RegDwigнt

I've seen tsk on ELU like three days ago. Maybe five.

tchrist

I sometimes tsk people.

But that's like tutting them.

RegDwigнt

2 days ago, by RegDwigнt

Next up they'll ask if tsk-tsk should be pronounced /t͡saˈt͡siːki/.

tchrist

I remember asking you, quite some time ago relatively speaking, whether the German professionals of your acquaintance used cutesy abbreviations when sending each other text messages on their handhelds. You said something along the lines of No, they wouldn't do that.

RegDwigнt

Well there's very little German textspeak compared to English.

tchrist

11:22

I wonder why that is.

RegDwigнt

And even what's there is not cutesy at all. Like, they'll use the valediction MfG, but that's not like "kthxbai", but rather like "with friendly greetings".

Who the fuck writes "with friendly greetings"? That's not textspeak.

I think that's the issue here.

If the source material is not cute in the first place, you can't make it cute by cutting off a leg here and an arm there.

"Okay thanks bye" is quite cute to begin with.

tchrist

Seeya.

Different question: you wouldn't know what an ur-cousin might be, would you?

RegDwigнt

First time I hear of such a thing.

tchrist

> Unexpectedly, abandoning and defying his mother, Alfonso Henry, at age 14, the ur-cousin of Alfonso Raymond, and sole son of Theresa began to fight.

RegDwigнt

Yeah no he only just invented that.

I can prefix things with ur- all day, but that doesn't make them things.

I mean, jokes aside and in all seriousness, what's that possibly supposed to mean?

He was his grandpa and also his cousin? Is this El Hechizado we're talking about?

tchrist

11:27

The prefix ur- is not especially common in English. I don't know what the original/primitive/earlier cousin is.

RegDwigнt

Yeah even where you'd think it's common, nobody at all has ever heard of it.

Like, we had that question a couple years back where nobody on ELU had ever heard of urtext.

tchrist

Dummies.

RegDwigнt

I was like "WTF". And everyone else was "yeah you don't count, ananas".

tchrist

I count.

> ǁ ur- /ʊər/, prefix, repr. G. (also MHG., OHG.) ur-, denoting ‘primitive, original, earliest,’ as ur-Hamlet, -origin, -stock, etc. See also Urheimat, Urschleim, Ursprache, Urtext.
G. ursprache (= primitive language) has been freq. used in recent English philological works.
1864 Max Müller Lect. Sci. Lang. (1871) II. 133 ― The most troublesome of all vowels, the neutral vowel, sometimes called Urvocal, better Unvocal.
1889 Jacobs Caxton’s Aesop I. 37 ― Any light he can throw on the Ur-origin of the Fables.

RegDwigнt

@Phil obviously you're not a musician. Urtexts are all over the place, I'm telling you. — RegDwigнt ♦ Jul 30 '14 at 11:34

tchrist

11:30

Urtext is in the dictionary. They have no excuse.

RegDwigнt

@Reg Actually, I am an amateur musician, but I'd genuinely never come across the term until today. I'm not a scholarly musician though. — Phil M Jones Jul 30 '14 at 15:45

tchrist

Less than droll.

RegDwigнt

I don't need to be a scholarly journalist to have heard of Kim Kardashian.

What kind of excuse is that.

tchrist

I hear people speak that name, but it doesn't mean anything to me.

RegDwigнt

No matter. You've heard it. You know it exists.

That's the barrier for entry we're talking about here.

tchrist

11:32

The Zeitgeist blows away from them, not towards them.

RegDwigнt

You can't just go, I'm an amateur musician so I've never heard of coda or crescendo.

tchrist

Or calando.

RegDwigнt

Or Hans Zimmer.

tchrist

A lot of amateur musicians barely read music, if at all.

RegDwigнt

A lot of professional musicians can't read, period.

tchrist

11:33

Well, soi-disant ones.

RegDwigнt

Anyway, never mind crescendo. Screw coda. But urtext is funneh. For that reason alone it should be on everyone's lips. Like urtext in Uranus. Quality stuff. How come it's not more common.

Joe's urcousin, Bob's uruncle.

Mitch

A lot of pressional writers can't end their sentences. Period.

RegDwigнt

I can end sentences for $3000

Mitch

$3000 for a period? That's like the ur-cousin of proto-hyperbole

tchrist

What is an ur-cousin? — tchrist 5 mins ago

pls ax ur cousin

Mitch

11:41

I had an uruncle removed from my...I had it removed.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Oh, that's another interesting thing. People will ridicule you for saying axe, but no one will ridicule you for saying usk.

I mean, what the hell is an usk anyway? It's esk. Idiots.

Mitch

You can say anyting as long as you're confident

tchrist

Period.

RegDwigнt

I can be as long as anything as I'm confident.

tchrist

Ars longa.

RegDwigнt

11:43

Arse in gratia arses.

Mitch

That's playing the long game. Like golf. Or fishing.

RegDwigнt

It's grating on my ears.

Oct 9 at 15:33, by RegDwigнt

Yes, like all those posh folks. Who are so posh the fate prevents them from learning the word "yes", so they have to spend all their lives saying "ears" instead.

tchrist

We should ask Mitch how to say posh in American.

Mitch

No one says ears anymore. It's sound-hole.

tchrist

Opine: english.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/146370

Yes, the post is wrong, but I don't feel like approving the edit.

RegDwigнt

11:47

Porcupine.

Ugh. I've read all the words on that page now and now I wish I hadn't.

Do as you will shall be the whole of the law.

tchrist

Oft evil will shall evil mar.

0

Q: Does online porn killing playboy?

We all know that playboy is famous all over the world since Marilyn Monroe days, but now internet came, with one click we can view free images & videos of sex, which is more than nude images present in playboy. so Does online porn killing playboy?

internet pornography

Fail.

RegDwigнt

Curiosity does killling catboy, that much I know.

This is when having 125+ reps pays off.

Mitch

I think you know a little more than that. Like how to tie your shoes.

RegDwigнt

I don't think you know whether or not I know how to tie my shoes.

In fact I know that one website where they can prove you don't.

Mitch

I wear slip ins just to avoid the question

RegDwigнt

11:57

skeptics.nsa.gov

Mitch

I know that site! All questions about playboy

tchrist

SE needs to have Captcha challenges that make you solve a minimal English sentence to be considered human.

RegDwigнt

"But now internet came" is a horrifying image.

You mean the whole Internet at once?

Fuck me...

tchrist

Rule 34.

RegDwigнt

Which of the following is the closest in meaning to "please"?
- pls
- plz
- puhleees
- I'll cut off your head and feed it to swine

Robusto

12:13

@RegDwigнt Well, we have to take the bitte with the sweet.

terdon

@Robusto Hmm, that's even worse if you read in in French.

Robusto

OK, communication with the SC is officially impossible. They don't speak English and I don't speak whatever they use.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto And your Stacys are soaking wet?

Robusto

??

tchrist

english.stackexchange.com/posts/280135/revisions

RegDwigнt

12:27

Tom Waits - Tom Traubert's Blues

►

> no one speaks English and everything's broken and my Stacys are soaking wet to go waltzing Matilda

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Hinjuns.

terdon

@RegDwigнt Warm beer, cold women.

RegDwigнt

and the maverick Chinaman, and the cold-blooded signs

Also, dude...

Robusto

So I'm telling the SC that the back end is giving me a value of 3 for a new user when the value should be 0. Their response: "The value should be 0." My problem.

RegDwigнt

If(1) return 0;

That'd be $3000, thank you.

tchrist

12:34

return 0 || return 1;

Robusto

What is this language..

RegDwigнt

English.

Glad you asked. Many people don't.

terdon

The Byrds - Turn! Turn! Turn!

►

tchrist

@Robusto Earth-to-Hindi: Value should be 0. Hindi-to-Earth: Value should be 0.

RegDwigнt

return 2 innocence

terdon

12:36

@RegDwigнt Oh wow, Enya?

RegDwigнt

Err. Wut.

Kids these days.

Enigma.

terdon

Ah, no, it was Enigma!

RegDwigнt

Can't even spell enigma.

Kids.

These days.

terdon

@RegDwigнt Hey, I remember that song! I was a kid in those days, thank you very much!

RegDwigнt

Good thing you never grew up to spell!

Oct 6 at 12:06, by RegDwigнt

Aye-iiow-iieye, ii-eye-ah-oh.

terdon

12:39

Didn't know you spoke Apache.

RegDwigнt

You didn't know many things. In fact you still don't.

But at least in this room you can learn all the english.

Robusto

@tchrist I should just write echo [message]. It would get the same result and would be faster.

RegDwigнt

You should just echo an image of Jean-Luc Picard facepalming.

Like, that should be all the tool does. Then you can sell it for $9000 in the Apple Store. Step 3: profit.

RegDwigнt

13:46

REMOVED

tchrist

?

RegDwigнt

Use the unnoticeable arrow on the right to scroll.

Robusto

14:29

thats looser talk..

@terdon You can run Apache without speaking it.

MετάEd

This Apache don't run.

RegDwigнt

This Al Paci? No.

MετάEd

This is ground control to Major Tom.

RegDwigнt

Völlig losgelöst von der Erde
schwebt das Raumschiff völlig schwereloooooooos.

terdon

Enough with the Vogon poetry!

RegDwigнt

14:35

I have two more wagons of it left.

Zaphod approves this massage.

Robusto

My Vogon poem is perfect:

42

MετάEd

@Robusto Then by definition it is not a Vogon poem.

RegDwigнt

Not if you use the Vogon definition.

Robusto

@MετάEd It's more of a koan then.

What is the sound of one Vogon poem not being a Vogon poem?

RegDwigнt

If a Vogon falls over poetry and no one is around to hear, does it still make a definition?

MετάEd

14:45

Just open the damned airlock.

RegDwigнt

Nononono. Don't open the damned airlock. Matt Damon had to learn that the hard way.

terdon

@Robusto Pffzztoing!

RegDwigнt

So it's the same sound as that of Donald Trump's mullet coming off? Intriguing.

Robusto

Question for the room: Is everything in software development always a clusterfuck?

RegDwigнt

Answer: everything in a clusterfuck is always software.

Robusto

14:57

Nah.

It's a more-or-less serious question.

RegDwigнt

Well.

There's software that's not your usual clusterfuck, like say the Airbus or NASA stuff, but then again it's a clusterfuck in all new ways.

Robusto

I despair.

RegDwigнt

So yeah, the more-serious-than-less answer is, there's no escape.

Robusto

Not so much that it's a clusterfuck, but that it doesn't seem to bother people that it's a clusterfuck.

Business as usual.

RegDwigнt

Oh it bothers them alright, or at least a few ones here and there.

I mean, that's what clusterfuck means, no.

No true clusterfuck isn't a bother to anyone.

MετάEd

15:01

You're thinking of clustersheep.

RegDwigнt

But to stick with the above example, at some point you just run with Churchill.

Clusterfuck is a horrible way of writing software, but it's the best one we've got so far.

Robusto

I hate this bullshit of every deadline being impossible from the outset, and massive cramming at the end, resulting in bugs that will delay the release, which will result in new deadlines, etc., etc.

When I was in college I always handed in papers and projects well ahead of the deadline, and I studied all along so that I didn't have to cram at the last minute.

In fact, the night before a test I would usually go out drinking or go to bed.

RegDwigнt

Well that's your own fault right there.

It's not our fault you specifically did not prepare for adult life.

Robusto

I prepared for life in a Perfect World.

RegDwigнt

Adult life is, drink first, meet deadline never.

Robusto

15:03

That is Russian life.

RegDwigнt

It's not mutually exclusive, being a Russian or an adult.

Robusto

Russian != adult

RegDwigнt

I'm told.

By children.

Robusto

By children.

RegDwigнt

by children

What is it with this damn chat and not being able to repeat what I just said.

It's almost like it was programmed. By adults.

tchrist

15:07

@Robusto That's not uncommon.

RegDwigнt

Being not uncommon doesn't make it less bullshit.

In fact it quite likely makes it more.

Exhibit A: Michael Bay.

MετάEd

@Robusto We don't know how to estimate.

Robusto

@tchrist My point exact. In fact, I don't recall it ever being any other way. Still, there must be a better way. And I say this as someone who is mere weeks or days away from laying down the software dev burden forever.

MετάEd

But we do know how to make promises we can't keep.

RegDwigнt

We could write software for that, no?

MετάEd

15:10

^_^

RegDwigнt

In fact Joel Spolsky did.

What ever happened to that guy.

Robusto

Who knows? The way things are going today, I might be hours away from that.

@RegDwigнt He wrote a famous book: English As She Is Spolsky.

RegDwigнt

At last to know it, to love it for what it is, and then, to put it away. Robusto, always the years between us, always the years. Always the love. Always the hours.

Robusto

Seriously, I can't fucking wait. I will not miss this at all.

RegDwigнt

You might dame it.

Robusto

15:12

The problem is, I like coding. But I will just have to set that aside for the greater good.

RegDwigнt

You can still write code and then sell it off eBay.

It's a living.

tchrist

Most developers spend only a very tiny proportion of their time coding, which is the thing they like doing.

RegDwigнt

USB Killer v2.0 testing.

►

> russians never invent something useful only to destroy

Going by ur use of grammer, ur russian.

Who never invent something only to destroy english grammer

Robusto

@tchrist I understand that. I just hate it. If I wanted to do bullshit all day I would have gotten good at that instead.

RegDwigнt

Hey now, no worries. That doesn't take 10 years to learn. You still have all the chances in the world.

They also built that whole Internet thing just to make it easier still.

For example, you could write movie reviews, giving more stars to Gigli than to Breakfast Club, dishing out the perfect score for Prometheus, and winning the Pulitzer Prize. Worked just fine for others.

Johan Larsson

15:39

@Robusto link

@Robusto and another

Not meaning anything with the links

*don't mean anything condescending

MετάEd

"Peter Drucker — you haven’t heard of him, but he is a prophet among people who sign checks"

2

I love that.

Johan Larsson

The first link errs on the angry side but there are grains of truth.

@MετάEd lets star it

condescending is very hard to spell

MετάEd

16:02

@JohanLarsson It's because you have to look down while you are condescending. It's much easier to spell conascending.

Johan Larsson

ah, now I understand the word better

tchrist

@Robusto We all hate it.

Johan Larsson

never thought of the descending part, easier to spell and remember now

@tchrist Inversely proportional to how smart a person is ime.

Competitive average persons love it.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Oh, I don't know. I dwell several parsecs beyond the "angry side" of that article.

MετάEd

He who writes on bathroom walls ...

Johan Larsson

16:08

@Robusto Not sure what the last part means.

MετάEd

After looking at the queues I really, really want to type out the rest of that but I fear it is offensive.

Johan Larsson

type it and edit it?

a gem in history

Robusto

@JohanLarsson It means the anger in the article is less than what I feel.

Johan Larsson

ty ty

but maybe you don't publish something with that tone

I agree with the text btw.

The style is not perfect, highs and lows.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Have you met me? If anything is clear about me from my presence in this chat, it is that I am not afraid of sounding angry.

Johan Larsson

16:14

ok

.

open source projects are fun

usually code quality is very high prio

I hope rust becomes the next big thing

MετάEd

@JohanLarsson Ode to the review queue. He who writes on bathroom walls / rolls his shit in little balls. / He who reads these words of wit / eats those little balls of shit.

Classic bathroom graffiti humor.

Johan Larsson

:)

MετάEd

I am done with being human for the day. Can I go home?

Johan Larsson

yes, it was nice of you to stop by

crl

16:30

Death (cigarette)

Death was a brand of cigarettes sold by the Enlightened Tobacco Company in the United Kingdom from 1991 to 1999. == Description and history == Entrepreneur BJ Cunningham invested his life savings to create and market an additive-free smoking product called Death. He founded the Enlightened Tobacco Company in 1991. Its product disclosed its hazardous nature by prominently displaying skull and crossbones on its outer package and came in two varieties; Death, and Death Lights. The product was marketed to the “young underground punk rock” consumer market. The products were sold for a time via mail...

funnily appropriate name

crl

16:58

@tchrist it's too late now, google referenced you as this

MετάEd

17:31

Surely he could just have called it Cancer Stix.

Mitch

Not afraid of sounding angry is overrated.

But sounding angry is underrated.

It's a subtle but important difference

Wait, no, it's just subtle.

Also phlegmatic does not sound at all like what people take it to mean.

It sounds like someone is about to hock up a big loogie. Or is tubercular.

MετάEd

18:04

It sounds like a phlegm manufacturing machine.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: NATIVE SPEAKERS HELP! REPHRASING by jona25 on english.stackexchange.com

barznjy

18:23

hi

I have a question please

Cerberus

@tchrist Who the heck are you!

@barznjy Ask!

tchrist

@Cerberus That’s for me to know and you to figure out.

Cerberus

It's freaky.

So you figured a diamond meant moderator, so a big diamond means God.

tchrist

Is that what you think?

Cerberus

Am I right?

MετάEd

18:36

I think I made one of those in crafts when I was in grade school.

You can't tell to look at me now, but I was once a gifted master of the popsickle stick.

tchrist

@Cerberus You must be thinking of someone else.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's fine, but what I liked about Lollipop's system was that you could put it into priority mode for some length of time and have it auto-disengage later. Because then you don't need to worry about missing a notification because you forgot your phone was on silent.

Cerberus

@tchrist Just praying.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That sounds handy, but surely there still is a way to do that?

If not, there will be some module that can do it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I mean, I'm just pointing out that the OP2's feature is nice, but not necessarily best. Still, it's similar to the mute button the iphone has had since forever.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, sorry, that was about the 1+2. You can no doubt still use the screen to set it to that mode of yours?

tchrist

18:48

MετάEd

@tchrist Must be really boring, living on tuna.

tchrist

The diamond dust in the streets keeps it a-sparkle.

MετάEd

Personally I'd choose even broccoli over tuna.

But you will never catch me eating odd broccoli.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes but it's much harder now. I used to press vol-down, then the star. Now I have to unlock, swipe down the notification shade, then swipe down the quick settings, then press the DND button, then pick the right DND mode.

Cerberus

19:08

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That sounds highly inconvenient!

Is there no quicker way?

A shortcut on your home screen, if Google has enabled that for this function?

crl

I can't recognize tchrist anymore :p

Cerberus

Whom?

Robusto

19:30

@crl Think of it as a new ID framework for him. In a couple weeks you won't worry about that anymore.

Mitch

19:56

@MετάEd We could all tell. It's pretty obvious.

@MετάEd more filling than living on a prayer

Especially if you're only half way there

Robusto

@Mitch If you add li into obvious you become oblivious.

Mitch

NOU!

It really doesn't make a difference if we make it or not

And a couple of paintings from Sears

What is it with couples from New Jersey?

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes, obviousli.

Robusto

Fred Couples

Frederick Steven Couples (born October 3, 1959) is an American professional golfer who competes on the PGA Tour and the Champions Tour. A former World No. 1, he has won 57 professional tournaments, most notably the 1992 Masters Tournament. In August 2011 he won his maiden senior major at the Senior Players Championship and followed this up in July 2012 when he won the Senior British Open Championship. He was inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame in 2013. Because of his long drives, Couples has been given the nickname "Boom Boom". == Early years and education == Couples was born in Seattle,...

Guess again. He's from Seattle.

@Cerberus I said into not onto. Mind those prepositions!

Mitch

20:12

Couples were born in Seattle. Wikipedia is such a joke

If you don't watch your prepositions, they'll get into hand.

Robusto

You're such an out genius, the thing you're a genius at hasn't even been invented yet.

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh, err, yes.

Mitch

If genius was predictable, we'd have automated it by now. Therefore genius cannot be relied on.

Cerberus

*were

Mitch

*be

Cerberus

21:11

Mmmm but would in the main clause calls for a past subjunctive.

Mitch

21:34

wiht 'be' what would the main clause have then?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…