English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

01:21

1

Dutch /u/ is not necessarily the same as English /u/. I think you may be confusing the concepts of "phoneme" (which corresponds to the adjective "phonemic") and "phone" (which corresponds to the adjective "phonetic"). A phonetic transcription, using square brackets, represents a specific physi...

Needs more ÿpvütes.

For figuring out why the Dutch guy was confÿzed.

Robusto

01:45

I think you mean confuwzed

Justyna Nogala

08:40

Hi, do you say something like "he got a bullet in his head" (he was shot in the head) or "to take a bullet" is the only good option?

how is it possible?

crl

well, "he took/received/got a bullet in the head" is fine

Justyna Nogala

that's what I mean

all of these mean "to be shot"

crl

yes

Jez

10:53

Damascene conversion

Noun: Damascene conversion (uncountable)

A sudden and complete change in one's beliefs....

Question: Why is that definition called "uncountable"? It seems countable to me.

Robusto

Good question.

Maybe when it happens you're too stunned to count? I dunno.

Jez

but it's not like "sand" or "water"

you can have "1 or 2 conversions"

Robusto

I would have thought so.

Should the occasion arise when I have to describe two such events, you can be sure I will use the plural.

But seriously, what do you expect from Wiktionary?

Jez

it's usually OK

skill patrol

I think "belief" is categorized as "information."

Robusto

10:58

Well, we do know what uncountable means.

Jez

@skillpatrol that doesn't work, because people don't usually talk about the notion of "Damascene conversion", they'll talk about "A Damascene conversion"

Robusto

books.google.com/ngrams/…

It is used with the indefinite article.

Jez

i changed it

Robusto

Good.

And when you refer to Damascene conversion you are referencing the conversion of St. Paul, who was supposedly knocked off his horse by the manifestation of God. Or so it was reported.

skill patrol

is God countable?

or perhaps the better question is can you count on God?

:)

Robusto

11:04

Well, the Catholics certainly count their God.

Father + Son + Holy Spirit = 3 gods

skill patrol

and the Protestants protest

Robusto

Of course, that is officially a heresy.

> The orthodox teaching concerning the Trinity, as finally developed and formally agreed at Constantinople in 381,[7] is that God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all strictly one being in three hypostases, misleadingly translated as "persons".

skill patrol

I'm sure @Cerberus has something to say about this^

;-)

Robusto

Three hypostases in one Dog?

skill patrol

Indeed.

Robusto

11:52

Hey, @Matt, you got a minute to help me figure something out?

Matt E. Эллен

what is it?

Robusto

I'm trying to dope out a simple algorithm for page navigation, which ought to be simple but it's kicking my ass this morning. Not enough coffee or something.

Matt E. Эллен

How can I help?

Robusto

Basically, whatever the number of pages > 5 there should be 5 numbers.

Matt E. Эллен

I'm chatting on mobile, so my spelling might go awry...

Robusto

11:54

And I always want to start on the 1 value.

Let's say you're on page 23, we want to start on page 21 and list the pages as follows:

< 21 22 23 24 25 >

And if there are say 27 total pages then we want to start with 27 - 5.

skill patrol

@MattE.Эллен careful pal, watch where you're going :)

Robusto

I've done this kind of thing in the past and it always worked, but right now I'm fucking up.

 function getStartNum(currentPage, totalPages) {
    currentPage = currentPage || 1;
    var floor = Math.floor(currentPage / 5) * 5;
    if (floor + 5 > totalPages) {
      floor = totalPages - 5;
    }
    return floor + 1;
  }

Matt E. Эллен

I'm a bit lost. Why do you start at 22 for 27?

Robusto

Because we always want 5 numbers in the nav

We don't want < 26 27

Matt E. Эллен

Ok, so you don't always start at n1

Robusto

11:59

Yes.

The algorithm I show above screws up for 5. It returns 6.

Matt E. Эллен

If the page number you are on can be in the middle of the 5, should it?

Robusto

Meaning what?

The page number I'm on is a given.

I want to get blocks of 5 with the current page number highlighted.

Matt E. Эллен

Ok. And it doesn't matter where in the 5 the highlighted page number is?

Robusto

I know I'm screwing this up because I keep writing more and more code to solve the problem. And it should be like three lines.

@MattE.Эллен Right.

It doesn't help that I got almost no sleep last night.

That's probably the issue, in fact.

Matt E. Эллен

:D yeah that sucks

Can't chat think and walk all at once

Robusto

12:06

Yeah. I know how that works. Safety first.

Is @tchrist around? Maybe he can see the flaw at a glance.

tchrist

Not caffeinated enough yet.

Last night was my first 8h night of sleep in I dunno.

Robusto

I wish I'd had 8 hours. I wouldn't be panhandling for algorithms in chat.

Matt E. Эллен

So I would add 2 and minus 2 the page number to get the range, then fiddle with the range to keep it within the actual bounds, but that would probably take more than 3 lines of code

Damon. Forgot my wallet.

Robusto

Ouch.

The hard part is that this pages aren't zero-based, which makes the math more complicated than it needs to be.

We're on page 0 but we call it 1.

tchrist

Are you sometimes passing a current page of zero but treating it as though it were a one?

Robusto

12:11

We never pass a current page of 0

tchrist

currentPage = currentPage || 1;

Robusto

Yes.

If there is no page number given, then it's 1.

tchrist

Variadic function?

Pizza's ready.

Robusto

Not variadic.

The reason currentPage = currentPage || 1 works is because 0, null, undefined and empty string all get evaluated to false in a JavaScript conditional.

Matt E. Эллен

So, I'd say if page count <= 5 show all pages, if n- 2 <1 show n to n +4, if n+2 > page count, show - 4 to n, else show the range

Robusto

12:18

Where are you getting the 2 from?

Matt E. Эллен

a range of five is n-2, n -1, n, n+1, n+2

Robusto

Yeah, if the number is in the middle of the range it is.

What if the number is first in the range? Like 21?

Matt E. Эллен

well, that way the number is always in the middle, unless the middle ends up with impractical numbers

Robusto

Oh, I see. You're not doing it in blocks, you're doing a roaming range with n always in the middle.

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto oh, I didn't understand that constraint. I thought where the number was didn't matter

Robusto

12:22

No, I see how you're coming at it and it might be the best way.

Matt E. Эллен

got my wallet, going mobile, again :D

Robusto

Cool. I will think on this.

And thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

Matt E. Эллен

No probs : )

To do it similar to your way, I'd do something like: start = (n- n%5)+1, end = n+(5-n%5)

I think

tchrist

@Robusto Never have understood why some programming languages distinguish between the undefined or uninitialized and this alleged null state. How many kinds of not-there does one ever really? Pretty sure that like most things, the possible answers are 0, 1, or as many as I please.

s/\?/ need?/

Robusto

12:45

@tchrist I don't know.

tchrist

Ok.

Robusto

It gets weirder when you have == and === evaluators.

tchrist

That makes me mad.

Robusto

In some languages, -1 evalutes to true, which is even weirder.

tchrist

Well.

Robusto

12:52

Counterintuitive to me, anyway.

tchrist

I find -1 to be just as true as 37: no more, no less.

If you don’t use a distinct boolean type, you get this situation.

Robusto

I agree.

When Internet Explorer tells me the value of hasLayout is -1 I think hasLayout is false.

When in fact they mean hasLayout is true.

tchrist

And languages that freely interconvert between strings and numbers in a magical way will always have little holes, as will those that distinguish "positive zero" from "negative zero".

Well.

Robusto

I agree. But in the case of JavaScript, I am used to navigating those little holes, and can actually use them constructively.

tchrist

Although I can and have exploited the distinction between false hash values that are false because that key’s value was set to a false value versus those where the key exists but that value was never set versus those where that key doesn't even exist, I prefer the simpler boolean set up of simply having true or false broadly interpreted.

Matt E. Эллен

13:00

var max = 27
var n = 26;
var start = n - n%5 + 1;
var end = n + (5-n%5);

if(end > max)
{
  start -= end - max;
  end = max;

  if(start < 1)
  {
    start = 1;
  }
}

console.log('start: '+start+' end: '+end);

Robusto

Yeah, I agree about the hash values being economical.

@MattE.Эллен Thanks. I will look at this.

Matt E. Эллен

no probs

time to cook (late) lunch

Robusto

On call with my boss asking for two days' worth of work in "about an hour."

That is ever his way. "It shouldn't take you more than an hour." Yeah, if I disregard all the details and just code it without taking into account any edge cases.

tchrist

@Robusto Every. Single. Time.

p  0 => pp  1 ..  5
p  1 => pp  1 ..  5
p  2 => pp  1 ..  5
p  3 => pp  1 ..  5
p  4 => pp  1 ..  5
p  5 => pp  6 .. 10
p  6 => pp  6 .. 10
p  7 => pp  6 .. 10
p  8 => pp  6 .. 10
p  9 => pp  6 .. 10
p 10 => pp 11 .. 15
p 11 => pp 11 .. 15
p 12 => pp 11 .. 15
p 13 => pp 11 .. 15
p 14 => pp 11 .. 15
p 15 => pp 16 .. 20
p 16 => pp 16 .. 20
p 17 => pp 16 .. 20
p 18 => pp 16 .. 20
p 19 => pp 16 .. 20
p 20 => pp 21 .. 25
p 21 => pp 21 .. 25
p 22 => pp 21 .. 25
p 23 => pp 21 .. 25
p 24 => pp 21 .. 25

Bajo Matt’s Auntie.

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен Matt, this fails the same way mine was failing. If n=30, the range starts at 31.

function getRange(n,max) {
var start = n - n%5 + 1;
var end = n + (5-n%5);

if(end > max)
{
  start -= end - max;
  end = max;

  if(start < 1)
  {
    start = 1;
  }
}

console.log('start: '+start+' end: '+end);
}

There's your code in a function. getRange(30,59) returns start: 31 end: 35.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:16

@Robusto You'll be glad to know that hasLayout is dead in all recent versions of IE

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto ah

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Even better, Internet Explorer is dead in Windows 10.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Sorta.

Robusto

Hmm, only sorta?

I thought Edge was completely rewritten.

Nov 28 '12 at 13:54, by Robusto

IE 10 still has the old IE 4 Internet Options modal, unresizable window. I'm sure it was written in MFC and nobody wants to fuck with it.

If Edge still has that then we know they are full of shit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, IE 11 is still shipped, I think. And Edge is, as far as I know, not a from-the-ground-up rewrite of IE11, but rather, a major overhaul.

Robusto

13:19

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with IE 11. But it still has lots of legacy code.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They haven't been clear about how much IE code Edge uses. But my understanding was that they simply started with 11 and ripped out everything that makes IE IE.

tchrist

Are there questions that start "What is the appropriate name for a person who ..." which are not Primarily Opinion Based? I mean, "appropriate", really?

It's appropriateness an opinion call?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist If I made a lego model of a grumpy guy riding on a camel and holding a cat, would you use it as an avatar?

4

tchrist

Unlikely, but thanks for offering.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I might make it anyway.

then distribute a userscript so that the rest of us can use it as your avatar :p

terdon

13:22

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you make lego grumpy?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon You find a minifig with an appropriate expression

tchrist

Fishing expedition:

0

Q: What do you call a person who appears to be oblivious to their ignorance?

What is the appropriate name for a person who exhibits the behavior described below? A person who speaks in a Confidently informed manner (about a technical process or procedure for example) however they are actually imparting incorrect information and are apparently oblivious of their actions.

So. Tired. Of. These.

ELU is the personals column of Stack Exchange.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no scar ^^

tchrist

So many people looking for love from single white robots.

Or maybe so many single white robots looking for love.

Perhaps the bots will inherit everything in the end.

Robusto

It really doesn't help my concentration to have a room full of people all a-twitter about their plans for the weekend, their dog's health, how the kids are doing. And then there are the chorused greetings to everyone who arrives at work. Welcome to the monkey house.

tchrist

13:29

Damned kids.

Wait, it’s August. Isn’t this World Fuckoff Month?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What time-zone are YOU in that it's august already?

tchrist

I’m negative-one based, remember.

May you have an august weekend.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Heh, more angry than grumpy but OK

tchrist

More fishing, please tackle:

0

Q: What do you call a day that is different from the usual days?

I am looking for a noun or adjective that describes a day that is different from the other usual days, in terms of routine. My usual routine every day is to stay in the house, do the household chores, feed my dogs, or sometimes go to the mall, stroll, and went back to the house, rest, and the l...

single-word-requests terminology

Robusto

@tchrist Pesach?

tchrist

13:42

SWM SWF SWR SIM SIF SIR SBM SBF SBR SAM SAF SAR SHM SHF SHR SIM SIF SIR MWM MWF MWR MIM MIF MIR MBM MBF MBR MAM MAF MAR MHM MHF MHR MIM MIF MIR DWM DWF DWR DIM DIF DIR DBM DBF DBR DAM DAF DAR DHM DHF DHR DIM DIF DIR GWM GWF GWR GIM GIF GIR GBM GBF GBR GAM GAF GAR GHM GHF GHR GIM GIF GIR WWM WWF WWR WIM WIF WIR WBM WBF WBR WAM WAF WAR WHM WHF WHR WIM WIF WIR seeks same.

tchrist

13:57

perl -E 's/_/ /g && say for <{Single,Married,Divorced,Gay,Widowed}_{White,Indian,Black,Asian}_{Male,Female,R‌obot}>'

Robusto

14:22

@Matt: I solved it, but it's not as pretty as I think it ought to be. So I will refrain from posting it in public. It doesn't make sense to me that it should be as complicated as I made it, but maybe I just need to look at it after I get some sleep.

Matt E. Эллен

14:37

@Robusto yeah, sleep often helps!

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен Anyway, thanks for your help.

Matt E. Эллен

no worries, sorry it wasn't quiet enough

Robusto

Oh, it was quiet enough. ^_^

Robusto

15:00

I think ordinal numbers should always start with zero. That is the zeroth rule I will implement if I am elected king of the world.

Robusto

16:31

0

Q: What is the scientific name to humour that is based on surprise

I remember browsing through Wikipedia one day, and coming across an article defining surprise-based humour. The article had a very specific scientific name, which doesn't have the actual word "surprise" in it. To give an example of this kind humour, consider the following sentence: "I have the ...

names science humor

Dupe of the paraprosdokian question.

OP's use of "scientific" instead of "technical" is a red herring.

New question for EL&U: "man or manatee which is correct? plz hurry my blind date is almost here."

The place I work for has free massages. It is telling how much of a geek I am that I wouid rather code than get interrupted, even for a massage.

user136984

17:34

Oh, well it's not very busy in here is it?

Johan Larsson

18:02

skill patrol

@JohanLarsson did you make that?

Johan Larsson

no

annoying to watch it

decent shop

skill patrol

i agree

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist GIR is an amusing mental picture. I hope it finds love.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I had a dream that you were telling some random old guy the code to get into your apartment, which was 92722. You might want to change the code.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

18:15

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's funny, because I live in a rental house now, and the locks are basically set to 00000.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 One must have a heart of stone to read about the plight of gay Indian robots without laughing.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

18:52

@Robusto Hmm, yes.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

19:57

clears throat I'm changing my position. I don't see why @tchrist should have to change. He was purple shards first.

skill patrol

Robusto

22:26

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 OK, but I still think a man of his abilities could come up with something a little more distinctive than a generic gravatar. I'm just saying.

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