English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:17

By the way, if anything can think of a suggestion for my little problem:

0

Q: Userscript: prevent Google Images from scrolling to the top when I drag an image (Firefox)

In Google Images, you can drag an image up into a "Drop image here" area to search for the image. An example page. When you start dragging the image, the page automatically scrolls to the top. If you stop dragging the image without reaching the designated area, the page scrolls back to wh...

EnglishMaster

04:10

Guys, I have a question about possessive. If a singular noun ends with s or es, like Moses, Isis or Charles, how do you add 's?

or describe possessive of those words?

Johan Larsson

06:57

@Rob a nice one

Robusto

11:38

@EnglishMaster You just add s. Moses's, Isis's, Charles's.

@LuizBerti I voted to reopen.

terdon

@Robusto I also voted to reopen but why are the dates relevant? Closing an older question in favor of a new one is perfectly fine if the new one is a better question or has better answers.

Robusto

@terdon If the latter gets better answers than the former, and the questions are equivalent, IMO the answers should be merged into the former.

terdon

@Robusto Not really. Order is irrelevant, only the relative quality counts. We should always close in favor of the better question.

Merging takes a mod so we can't really deal with that short of flagging.

Robusto

You and I will have to agree to disagree on that point.

terdon

In any case, the questions are just not duplicates, so the issue is moot.

@Robusto Really? You feel that the newer should always be closed in favor of the older?

Robusto

11:53

@terdon Absent any compelling evidence, yes.

terdon

Well, yes, if they're equivalent, keep the old one but if the new one is better, keep that one.

Robusto

I've had it happen to me on SO where the latter question got more votes even though it was decidedly inferior.

terdon

I'm not saying more votes, just better. Clearer, better explained or with better answers. The target should always be the best question on the subject available on the site.

36

A: Should I vote to close a duplicate question, even though it's much newer, and has more up to date answers?

If the new question is a better question or has better answers, then vote to close the old one as a duplicate of the new one. You can flag and ask a moderator to merge after closure if they're exactly the same. If they differ based on the versions of the relevant systems, then they're not real...

tchrist

I feel like this is a duplicate, but I can’t really find a good suitable original:

1

Q: send something to someone|somewhere

Background: I am writing a computer application which can understand English sentence. For that purpose, I was preparing frames of each word. For example: send something to recipient|place Since to can be defined as separate frame; to recipient|place So the frame for send can be defi...

word-order indirect-object prepositional-objects

Perhaps the barrier to finding one for me is the “good” constraint I am attempting to apply.

I think I should expend more effort in finding exact duplicates so people don’t complain about things not answering their question.

Robusto

12:26

@tchrist: I think I finally get why Spanish puts a plural article in front of an expression of hours. They take the hours as a quantity, not a point in time. So Yo como la cena a las nueve points to "the nine hours" and not the number the big hand points to.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected, offensive title detected: Has 'Shit' Become De-Curse-ified? by user3306356 on english.stackexchange.com

tchrist

@Robusto I’m not sure of that. Compare Spanish “¿Qué hora es?” with French “Quelle heure est-il?” The Frenchman answers “Il est sept heures” but the Spaniard with “Son las siete”.

Robusto

@tchrist But the Spaniard seems to be referring to the nine hours taken as a quantity.

The plural son makes me think that even more than the plural las.

tchrist

But a Frenchman will say “Je me lève à 5 heures du matin” in the plural, just as a Spaniard would say “Me levanto a 5 horas de la mañana” (or more likely, “de la tarde” :).

¿A qué hora está el reloj? Está a una hora. Está a cinco horas.

We no longer say five hours of the clock in English.

Also, and I suppose you know this, don’t go over twelve in Spanish.

The Germans and even the French have things at 17. Like the English, the Spanish have them a las cinco de la tarde.

Timetables for trains and planes excepted.

Robusto

I don't see how French has any bearing on what Spanish does. Me levanto a 5 horas de la mañana is talking about quantity of hours, not point in time.

tchrist

12:36

You couldn’t really use a if it were a period.

I’m just showing that Romance uses plural hours.

Robusto

@tchrist Proving that Spanish is a more civilized language than those of the two countries who featured most prominently in the internecine struggles of the 20th century.

tchrist

You cannot do something “at” three days.

Robusto

Maybe I am not making myself clear. I thought it was a simple point I was making.

tchrist

It may be.

But it eludes me.

I just know that all the Romance tongues use plural hours.

So it hardly started in Spanish.

Robusto

I don't care where it started.

I just am trying to wrap my head around why "at seven" becomes "las siete" in Spanish.

Now you're trying to talk me out of my epiphany, it seems.

tchrist

12:40

It becomes that because it is seven hours.

Or one hour.

No puedo comer antes de la una a causa de mi trabajo.

It’s just that one is singular and two through twelve are plural.

Robusto

Granted. That is in line with my supposition.

@terdon: I think my main issue is that if the second question is asked without reference to, or drawing distinction with, the first, then it means the asker of the second has not done sufficient research and, therefore, should not be rewarded.

terdon

They treat them just like any other number. Los siete enanos El niño único

@Robusto It's not a matter of rewarding the OP, it's for the next poor sap who does search and deserves to be pointed to the best Q&A we have.

Plus, searching for dupes is really not that easy. I see no reason to penalize the OP of an otherwise decent question just because they failed to work magic with the shitty SE search.

Robusto

@terdon enanos?

terdon

dwarves

Robusto

Hmm.

tchrist

12:47

Y Blancanieves, la niña única que los conoce.

terdon

La zorra.

tchrist

Sé bueno tú.

Robusto

Hmm, Count Bosco is treading on my bladder.

tchrist

Era un lobo no una zorra. :)

terdon

That one is also interesting, by the way, why Blancanieves and not _Blancanieve?

tchrist

12:48

Yeah.

Maybe it’s because of the pattern of compound words taking plural forms?

terdon

Like?

tchrist

Sacacorchos.

But then there’s parabrisa and parasol.

terdon

And corchos makes sense since there will be many. At least if I have a say in the matter.

Las nieves, on the other hand is quite rare.

Vanishingly so, in fact.

tchrist

Rompecabezas, calientalibros, rascacielos, abrelatas, quebrapelotas.

@terdon De antaño. :)

Calientapollas.

=cocktease

secamanos

But quemarropa.

Maybe it’s using plurals there for the zero-article type case.

tocadiscos

terdon

tocacojones, yes, OK, I see the trend.

But nieves? Can you force nieves into another sentence? It's not really countable as far as I can tell.

tchrist

12:55

But a snowmobile is una motonieve.

En tiempo de nieves, nos quedamas adentro.

="Tiempo en que nieva con frecuencia"

terdon

@tchrist Hmm, as in temporada de lluvias?

Fair enough.

tchrist

Exactly!

> nieves eternas, o nieves perpetuas.
1. f. pl. Las que, en la alta montaña, subsisten de un invierno a otro.

But yeah, not common.

terdon

Huh, OK, I would have called that nieve eterna but I'm not about to argue with RAE.

tchrist

Nor with Villon. :)

terdon

SO what's the plural of blancanieves? He visto 5 blancanieveses? blancanieves? :P

tchrist

12:59

Those ones are invariant.

Se me cayó el sacacorchos. Me hacen falta tres sacacorchos nuevos.

terdon

I know, I know but blancanieveses or blancasnieves sound funnier.

Robusto

@terdon If it's so hard, why do we bother to close dupes at all?

tchrist

That all roads might lead to the same place.

terdon

@Robusto We should close, I just don't think that failing to find a dupe is reason to castigate a good OP.

Robusto

It's not always that clear cut.

terdon

13:01

I myself have posted dupes on various sites even after searching for them.

The SE search leaves something to be desired.

Robusto

It leaves a lot to be desired. I never use it if I'm looking for information. I use Google instead.

Google finds stuff on SO way faster and better than SO search does.

terdon

@Robusto Exactly, you can hardly expect your new user to be aware of this even if they did take the time to search.

Robusto

I find the whole business of dupes on SE sites murky and unpleasant.

It seems capricious and unfair, in large part.

tchrist

You think we should answer the same question howsoever many times it should be asked?

terdon

@Robusto Which is why I don't consider posting a dupe any kind of offense. We just close them to keep the sites tidy.

Robusto

13:07

How does it keep the site tidy? And the process of closing doesn't really always close the inferior question, IMO. In fact, I'd say it doesn't even do so in a majority of cases.

terdon

@Robusto That's up to us. We should always strive to close in favor of the better thread.

All I'm saying is that the date of posting is irrelevant.

Robusto

Well, in actual practice what we "should" strive to do and what we actually do are very far apart most of the time.

> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

terdon

Such is life.

Robusto

That's the theory.

crl

14:29

Que hora son? mi corazon

terdon

Que horas son. :P

crl

Manu Chao - Me Gustas Tu

►

terdon

@crl Yup, he says que horas son, you just don't hear it because it's joined with the son. Just like in French.

Only with no z sound.

crl

@terdon right, I remember discussing that case in class

It's arranged for the rhymes, rhythm, etc

tchrist

15:06

Is there a minimal pair for tensed /or/ versus lax /ɔr/?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Why are they wearing shoes? That provides a lot of extraneous noise that harms the performance.

Johan Larsson

yeah agree, I did not love it. It was mildly interesting though.

Did you listen to Thirlwell?

Masterpiece imo.

Robusto

Who?

Johan Larsson

8 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

@Rob a nice one

Robusto

Did not see that.

crl

15:13

@tchrist A minimal pair of what, are you looking for?

Johan Larsson

@Robusto I thought it was a little strange when you replied to other stuff on the line below :)

tchrist

@crl Two words whose only phonemic difference is /or/ in one word and /ɔr/ in the other.

crl

Ah ok

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Maybe I viewed it on my tablet and mistook one for the other.

Johan Larsson

You want over ear headphones or better for this one.

Now I just hope that you beat me with ten even better tracks as usual.

Robusto

15:15

I have good computer speakers in my office.

tchrist

We have somebody claiming that broad and board rhyme, but those have very different vowels. The one in broad is lax but the one in board is tense.

He must speak some dialect.

crl

a door / adore

Mitch

@tchrist 'mentor' and .. um... 'mentor' pronounced wrong?

crl

'shore' and 'sure' pronounced wrong

Mitch

@Robusto I should remember that

tchrist

15:20

@crl Those are homophones for me.

Mitch

sho'nuf

Robusto

@Mitch You should in theory. But will you in practice?

Mitch

@Robusto What are you talking about?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Not sure I can do that. But did I link this one yet?

01. Otis Spann - Pretty Girls Everywhere

►

2 hours ago, by Robusto

Well, in actual practice what we "should" strive to do and what we actually do are very far apart most of the time.

Your post was a link to that.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto So you liked it, I was not sure. That song is very much my cup.

@Robusto very nice, ty sir!

Mitch

15:37

@Robusto I apologize. I forgot to press return on 'Zing!'

Jude Niroshan

hi all

Mitch

hi

what's up?

tchrist

15:57

zings

Johan Larsson

16:12

@Rob Found this in Youtube comments. Sounds good so far.

Robusto

17:00

@JohanLarsson Oh yeah, Tom Waits. Mos' def.

Captain Beefheart - Diddy Wah Diddy

►

@JohanLarsson: You must be a Beefheart fan, surely.

The Buggy Boogie Woogie - Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band

►

Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band - Safe As Milk (1999 CD Version)

►

Andrew Leach

@tchrist British English, perhaps. Broad, board and bored are all the same vowel sound. Bawd is different.

Johan Larsson

17:19

@Robusto never heard him until now

terdon

@JohanLarsson Friend of Zappa's, that should tell you something :)

Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica (1969) [Full Album]

►

Johan Larsson

pretty good, not a fan yet though

terdon

Crazy bugger.

Beefheart, I mean.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Peter found a couple of pairs that work for New England but not elsewhere: Lawrence, Lorentz and Taurus, torus. In most of North America those are all tense vowels.

I’m thinking that dropping the r is relaxing the vowel for you.

Simple due to what is or is not required for the tongue.

With a rhotic there is no chance to relax it.

Now I wonder about Southern American English, since they are also non-rhotic.

Or at least, can be.

SmokeDetector

20:19

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected: I'd been sent to kill him / I was sent to kill him. etc..? by Milo on english.stackexchange.com

Cerberus

22:46

Greetings, mortals.

user116848

Greetings :)

Mitch

23:47

Greetings!

Wait, how do you know we're mortal?

@Cerberus I mean, it's a pretty good guess. You just never know really who you're talking to.

Cerberus

@Mitch You look mortal!

See this knife? Muwahaha...

By the way, does anyone know what time SE chat displays in its message history?

chat.stackexchange.com/messages/21187027/history

What time do you see? It says 10:49 PM for me.

@arrowfar How about you, what do you see?

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