English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Andrew Leach

00:00

The question becomes one of whether blacklisting word(s) simply shifts the pr0blem.

tchrist

Which is another thing, yes.

Would blacklisting cut down on questions closed or deleted?

Probably not.

I had been going to advocate the blacklist if it proved that more were closed/deleted than open.

Maybe a majority of 51% isn't strong enough for some people.

I don't know that the SO blacklist of PROBLEM has changed anything.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Half of all such questions is hardly insignificant.

tchrist

However, it might make things feel less frustrating to regulars.

I didn't mean to suggest it was. Just that some members may not be convinced.

And this requires broad consensus, I feel.

We can lobby for it, but if the membership as a whole does not want it, then we should not do it. Sigh.

Andrew Leach

I wouldn't be averse to trying it. But it would need a separate carefully-worded Meta question.

tchrist

Agree.

Andrew Leach

00:04

Which would probably need a defined trial period.

tchrist

I think people like Rob and me, and perhaps you, are more apt to want it than people who don't wade through as much dreck as we do.

Will it make less work? Will it improve quality? Will it drive people away? All these need asking.

We might not know the answers.

Andrew Leach

There have been many questions I would like to have voted on except that my vote is instantaneously effective.

tchrist

I figured.

You guys are getting a lot more careful about coming in as the final vote, so that it is not a matter of binding.

Andrew Leach

Borderline questions aren't really something for that sort of treatment.

I've reopened several I voted on.

tchrist

I confess I duphammer by sheer accident at times, and afterwards go gosh I would not have done that as the first or second voter.

Cerberus

00:07

@tchrist That is not a huge difference. All it tells us is that those words are somewhat more likely to be bad questions, and...that the community of closers is radically different from the community of askers.

I avoided terms like "superior to" and "out of touch with".

tchrist

@AndrewLeach See, tolja. :)

Andrew Leach

But my vote was effective in getting the question improved :-)

tchrist

@tchrist: 22% of SO questions with "problem" in their titles are either closed or deleted. That compares to 23% of all questions. I've always thought that "problem" was a pretty terrible signal and I guess I know that for sure now. (One problem with this analysis: closing and deletion have increased since "problem" was blacklisted.) — Jon Ericson ♦ 5 mins ago

That is interesting.

They blacklisted PROBLEM for far less justification than ours.

Cerberus

They probably didn't know at the time?

tchrist

Perhaps they didn't run the analysis. Dunno the history.

jinx

Cerberus

00:10

I presume by "terrible" he means "unreliable".

tchrist

That's my reading, yes.

BTW, Jon is a really sweet guy.

Cerberus

At first I thought he rather meant "ominous" or something.

I'm sure he is.

Why do you mention that?

Andrew Leach

Anyway, it's after 1am BST. Keep musing. I'll read the transcript a bit later.

tchrist

Because I wanted you to realize he wasn’t some fellow with a chip on his shoulder.

Night @Andrew.

@Cerberus If you wade through any nontrivial proportion of my Bad 250 List, it really does feel like a pattern of really bad stuff. I don't know whether this is confirmation bias, or close-voter fatigue.

Or real.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Sleep well.

muses

@tchrist Whether that be close-voter fatigue, I do not know; but I do know that you suffer from it.

tchrist

00:15

Make a deal: read 10% of those and then hazard an impression of how likely reading 10x of those might be fatiguing. :)

Also, you do realize that I am ELU’s #1 reöpen voter too, right?

Hm.

Rephrase.

I’ve done the most reviews.

I usually say no.

Basically, I look at a lot of questions.

90% of everything is crap.

If you don't look at a lot of questions, you might not notice.

Mazura

What is the 'main breaker' called in British? Re. english.stackexchange.com/questions/20596/…

Andrew Leach

00:39

Main switch.

tchrist

No, I’m sorry. You aren’t allowed to call it that: that’s what we call it. :)

Although main breaker is also heard.

Mazura

Why does it say "all main switches must be turned off"? In the US you have only one or it isn't a main.... Re. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/63278/…

tchrist

> Step two , find your circuit breaker panel box. Turn off the main breakers. They are normally at the top and are marked "Main". They are normally 100, 150 or 200 amp breakers with a connect bar connecting the two of them together. The main breaker looks like a 240 volt breaker, but slightly larger. If you cannot determine which breakers are the main breakers, do not continue. There is no second guessing. Get a licensed electrician.

tchrist

01:18

@Cerberus This one’s for you, wherever you are. . . .

-1

Q: which sentence is correct ???

We have been married for 14 years. We have been married 14 years. I saw both two sentences. is it used both all? thanks.

word-usage

Cerberus

Welcome! This question belongs on English Language Learners, though. Number 1 is the standard way to say it. Number 2 sounds colloquial, but probably acceptable. — Cerberus 1 min ago

tchrist

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Cerberus

Vraiment.

Robusto

Hola.

@Cerberus ça va?

tchrist

Cava (Spanish wine)

Cava (Catalan pronunciation: [ˈkaβə], plural caves) is a sparkling wine of Denominación de Origen (DO) status, most of which is produced in Catalonia. It may be white (blanco) or rosé (rosado). The macabeu, parellada and xarel·lo are the most popular and traditional grape varieties for producing cava. Only wines produced in the champenoise traditional method may be labelled cavas, those produced by other processes may only be called "sparkling wines" (vinos espumosos). About 95% of all cava is produced in the Penedès area in Catalonia, with the village of Sant Sadurní d'Anoia being home to many...

Robusto

01:36

@tchrist It's like they're doing it to get my goat.

tchrist

Damned goatsuckers.

Or caprimulgidae for the taxonomically inclined.

Cerberus

@Robusto Bonjour!

Ça va.

Et toi?

Ton espagnol, ça van bien?

tchrist

*espagnol

Cerberus

Oh, right, that.

tchrist

*va :)

Van is 3p plural Spanish. French uses vont.

Cerberus

01:49

Hah.

Espagnol is not plural.

Van is mainly used in surnames anyway.

Normally not capitalised!

Jan van der Bilt.

tchrist

Doesn’t matter — ça is singular, so it takes va. Like Ça marche?

Cerberus

...I used the singular pronoun to refer to a singular noun, yes.

tchrist

A surfeit of caves, no doubt.

Cerberus

Cavete canem.

tchrist

looks around

Just one of me here, I think.

Cerberus

01:54

I think there is a red one as well.

tchrist

Maybe.

And the Watcher.

Cerberus

And, my Lord, a green one.

tchrist

He likes to watch.

Cerberus

Whicher?

tchrist

Himser.

Must Rustle Cats.

Cerberus

01:55

Courage!

Auf Französisch.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

02:57

@Mitch I wasn't ageist until I learned that old people are voting for Harper.

Primož 'c0dehunter' Kralj

06:23

Hello, could someone confirm my translation (does it sound correctly, especially the first half?):
"Monitoring and control systems for aircraft"

terdon

09:17

@Primož'c0dehunter'Kralj It might. Hard to know without knowing what you want to say and what you are translating from.

Robusto

11:24

2

Q: Is there a verb for making (appreciative/agreement/attentive) sounds during conversation?

Is there a verb for giving feedback to someone with non-word sounds during conversation, including not specifically using filler words, in order to indicate attentiveness, agreement or appreciation, etc.? I have searched for this word in all kinds of places and understood it to be a form of voca...

verbs

This feels like a dupe, but I don't have time right now to go hunting for it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:29

Morning!

Robusto

Hello!

Cerberus

Greetings!

How are your phones this morning?

Or should I say, Your Phoninesses?

tchrist

Crank needs oiling.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Both Nexii are the same as yesterday.

Robusto

@Cerberus My phones are really phoney.

Cerberus

12:40

@tchrist Where do you need oiling?

Just your brain?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 !!! Die!

tchrist

The wiki squeal gets the gris.

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm is it always with an e?

@tchrist Green ideas sleep furieusement?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yes, when it means "phone-like"

@tchrist wiki squeal would be a good name for a punk band

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Bleh.

Robusto

@Cerberus Three exclamation marks negates the object, so you are telling him not to not to not to die, or not to ~~not to not to~~ die.

tchrist

12:42

@Cerberus Fork and spooners.

Robusto

@Cerberus No. It never is, unless I'm making an orthographic extension for the purposes of a joke.

Cerberus

@Robusto Hah, but there are four.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wouldn’t it though!

Cerberus

@tchrist Raw herring and onion.

Robusto

@Cerberus Only three appear before the verb. We care nothing about exclamation marks after verbs.

Cerberus

12:43

@Robusto I suspected...something.

tchrist

Help, we need a translator!

Cerberus

@Robusto We do!

Robusto

No. Those are for purposes of emphasis alone and may be disregarded.

Cerberus

Speaking of G2s, I have been experimenting with live-streaming, and I can stream my phone's camera to the Internet over 3G, with maybe half a second's lag, it's pretty cool. Took only a minute to set up.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hey, so the "royal we" is when you refer to your singular self using a plural pronoun. Is there a name for the "we" that excludes the speaker? like when your wife tells you "we should mow the lawn".

tchrist

12:44

𝔼𝕞𝕡𝕙𝕒𝕥𝕚𝕔𝕤 𝕣𝕖𝕕𝕦𝕟𝕕𝕒𝕤𝕚𝕫𝕖 𝕣𝕠𝕦𝕟𝕕𝕝𝕪.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think that is the nurse's "we"?

tchrist

Wee what?

Cerberus

Yes, often used in the context of wee-wees.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus hm, I haven't heard that one, but yeah, that is also a common example.

Cerberus

"Now we're going to pee, Mr Heinz."

tchrist

12:45

You have to take the stopper off first.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Maybe that is not its exact name. But it has a name, I'm sure there is a Wikipaedia article.

tchrist

Peakyweepia is a sad country.

Cerberus

@tchrist Don't we want to do so ourselves?

tchrist

You can’t stopper if you won’t letter.

Cerberus

Then oil her up first.

tchrist

12:49

Owl do it on a lark.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's called "first person matrimonial" I think.

tchrist

> Could we take out the garbage sometime?

Otherwise known as the second person exclusive.

Robusto

"Y'all" is second person rural.

Cerberus

Heh.

tchrist

Yawl is cat talk.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:06

A woman in Toronto just lost a court case, for, among other reasons, claiming that she was a virgin when her daughter was born. It bugs me that the judge wrote “It was, basically, an immaculate conception — only the second one in history." VIRGIN BIRTH != IMMACULATE CONCEPTION! jeez people.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Umm...but one follows from the other, does it not?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No.

They are separate concepts.

Immaculate conception = free from original sin (as Mary is supposed to have been). Virgin birth = getting pregnant without having sex.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not also free from the maculae that traditionally accompany the taking of one's virginity?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Only counts if the turkey-baster has been immaculately cleaned first.

Cerberus

13:13

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If you say so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, was the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary in her mother's womb free from original sin by virtue of the foreseen merits of her son Jesus Christ.

The Immaculate Conception is commonly confused with the doctrine of the Incarnation and the virgin birth of Jesus, though the two deal with separate subjects. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was conceived by normal biological means, but her soul was acted upon by God (kept "immaculate") at the time of her conception.

RegDwigнt

More architecture for @Cerberus:

Cerberus

I am unfamiliar with religion.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Immaculate Conception

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, was the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary in her mother's womb free from original sin by virtue of the foreseen merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Immaculate Conception is commonly confused with the doctrine of the Incarnation and the virgin birth of Jesus, though the two deal with separate subjects. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was conceived by normal biological means, but her soul was acted upon by God (kept "immaculate") at the time of her conception. Although the belief that Mary was sinless and conceived...

RegDwigнt

Religion, meet Cerberus. Cerberus, meet religion.

Now you're familiar.

Cerberus

13:14

@RegDwigнt Immaculately constructed. Except for the rust stains.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt If that's not photoshopped, you gotta wonder about the guys who were putting the handrails on. "There, it's finished!"

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Noted.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's not photoshopped. It's part of my series on Russia for Cerberus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Now you can use the words correctly! and cringe when people get it wrong!

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I am only familiar with the religion that provides me with all those nice souls to bite.

RegDwigнt

13:15

Feb 17 at 10:58, by RegDwigнt

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

one more cringe in Cerberus's collection of pedantry

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha I do like that.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But sex and sin have become conflated in religious doctrine. Were it not for original sin, no sex would be necessary. Or something like that.

RegDwigнt

Apr 1 at 14:07, by RegDwigнt

Russians really don't get stairs. Shit's just too complicated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt That's awesome.

Cerberus

13:17

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But isn't there some other conception of immaculateness that is about physical stuff anyway? Perhaps something older that the Church eventually suppressed and supplanted with their wishy-washy stuff?

Like the virgin birth, as you say.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I like that the drainpipe makes a nice coating of ice that will deter would-be users of the Stairs-To-Nowhere.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 have some nice road signs in the transcript.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There may be a notion of immaculateness equating to virginity. But the Immaculate Conception (proper noun) is not the same as the Virgin Birth.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto it is subtle touches like that that make Russia loveable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt you misspelled laughable.

Cerberus

13:18

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But perhaps it once was.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 nah, nothing subtle about the laughable part.

Jul 11 '12 at 10:09, by RegDwight ΒВB

Nov 8 '13 at 20:44, by RegDwigнt

Feb 17 at 11:17, by RegDwigнt

Nov 14 '12 at 16:11, by RegDwighт

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So you're saying this terminology is a remnant of some previous usage that pre-dates the Catholic Church? I think the more likely explanation: most people are ignorant of the details of their own religion, is more likely.

Cerberus

Something that antedates some doctrine from the Central Middle Ages?

You mentioned the virgin birth.

The Church has invented and radically changed many doctrines in the course of history.

If it is only about sin, then why not name it the impeccate conception or something?

Is macula commonly used for the original sin elsewhere?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't know.

The whole "immaculate conception" thing came about when some clergy were concerned that God might have had ghost sex with a regular ol' sinful woman. So they decided she must have been sinless, including the original sin everyone is born with.

Johan Larsson

@Rob how is that menu?

Cerberus

13:36

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, but God's having sex with people on earth was perfectly fine?

I love how consistent their world views are.

Then again, of course Christianity came from roots similar to those of the polytheist religions in the Near East and the Mediterranean, where gods and men had sex on a regular basis and every dynasty claimed a divine ancestor.

In fact, many of the gods were possibly based on real people from thousands of years ago, whose adventures were told and retold.

Perhaps there once was a woman named something like Artemis who was the greatest bowwoman of her region.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus God is himself immaculate, and women are property, so him impregnating her (actually he doesn't visit himself, he sends an angel) is fine. Except gross! she's a dirty woman! He must have pre-cleaned her.

Cerberus

I'm sure it makes sin within that tiny splinter of doctrine, but not when considering other conceptions of God in doctrine.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what makes sin?

Cerberus

14:01

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ugh, that was a Freudian slip.

I meant sense.

RegDwigнt

14:14

Oh wait, Stack Exchange is Yahoo Answers.

7

Q: How would cities be designed that were threatened by dragons?

The dragons aren't all that common but they live in the nearby mountains and after a harsh winter are more likely to come looking for easy prey to fatten back up on. What are the major design considerations likely taken into account by those people living on the edges of a dragon's sphere of inf...

city-design medieval military-defense dragon

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt ...but it's actually a fun question.

The answers are not so much about the design of a city as about weapons to be used against dragons.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus my point exactly. Welcome to Yahoo Answers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Religion always only makes sense in tiny splinters. For years they've been gluing splinters together into a sort of plywood and then claiming that the tree grew that way.

Cerberus

14:30

@RegDwigнt So what you're saying is that we should learn from Yahoo Answers and become them. Right?

Of course I should have said "become they"...but I chose to read this as elliptical like them.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha, that is a nice metaphor.

I'm afraid I cannot disagree with you this time.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yes. Right. Better still, just get the hell outta here to visit their site instead.

Pictured from right to left: stack exchange, a user getting the hell out.

Cerberus

Haha, what the hell is that.

Looks like asphalt?

RegDwigнt

Stack Exchange. And a user getting out.

Cerberus

And...something on it?

What shape is SE?

RegDwigнt

Apparently a sedan.

Cerberus

14:34

@RegDwigнt I was 100% sure you were going to say that.

I see no sedan.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus and then? What happened next? Why did you stop being 100% sure? Don't leave me hanging like that.

Cerberus

Nothing. I was always 100% sure.

But I now realise that it is a GIF.

I turned off moving GIFs.

RegDwigнt

Oh.

Well, turn the GILFs back on, then.

Cerberus

Wow, that is incredible.

He fell out through the roof, but was barely hurt, except the humiliation of lowered trousers?

RegDwigнt

El salón increíble.

Cerberus

14:37

Salón or sedán?

G=grandmother, by the way?

RegDwigнt

Yes?

Why we talking in questions?

Is this a new trend?

Cerberus

Just checking?

Yes?

RegDwigнt

Hello?

Cerberus

No?

Hi?

RegDwigнt

Wo?

Cerberus

14:39

Do?

RegDwigнt

Joh?

Cerberus

Why haven't I heard that one in such a long time?

RegDwigнt

No idea?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm late to the party? Since when are we uptalking?

RegDwigнt

Yes and yes?

Cerberus

14:43

Are we valley girls?

Which valley was that again?

RegDwigнt

Something with SoCal?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

San Fernando Valley?

Cerberus

Who?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Not who, where?

But uptalking probably older than the valley girls meme?

> HRT seems to have been noted as early as World War II.

RegDwigнt

Horny Rich Teens?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:51

High Rising Terminal?

RegDwigнt

Human Release Tests?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's the technical name for it?

But horny rich teens is a good mnemonic for the acronym?

RegDwigнt

So like a fancier way of saying Airport?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It could be a fancier way for airport? Or also a computer on a network that's hard to reach?

RegDwigнt

There is a Terminal in New Orleans they call the Rising High.

Cerberus

14:56

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Was this line a question!?

@RegDwigнt Where is your question mark??

RegDwigнt

It was, then it stopped.

Cerberus

Am I the only dog policing this room?

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus You stole it, you bad dog.

Your line has two.

Cerberus

I eat them.

Oops.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yes.

You are always the only dog doing anything in here.

Mitch

15:11

@Robusto Arf.

RegDwigнt

Is that how Alf is spelled in Chinese?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt yes. And "Arf" is spelled 汪

Robusto

@RegDwigнt No, Japanese. Let's get this stuff straight, okay?

Pandya

Have done + Am doing = Have been doing ?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Sorry, I'm not quite done yet getting this stuff gay.

Besides, in Japanese it'd be Arufo. You noob.

Pronounced Aruho.

Cerberus

15:24

@Robusto All those lazy dogs...tsk.

@Pandya Nope...

Mitch

@Cerberus sad Pandya

@RegDwigнt Chinese dogs don't bark.They kuang fei

RegDwigнt

That is most cow cunt.

Mitch

niu bi!

RegDwigнt

Uh bah pro.

Cerberus

@Mitch Hahaha.

Aww.

Ni hao.

Mitch

15:33

@Pandya Do you mean to ask 'I am doing something' but in the past? Is it still going on or has it finished?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt No, it would be あるふ (arufu).

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Seyumo difarensu.

Cerberus

Your Japanese is improving.

Robusto

15:49

@Cerberus How would an 犬 know?

Or perhaps you prefer your complete title: 地獄の番犬

Cerberus

Aww is that a dog?

Robusto

Yes. Pronounced inu.

The long version is Google's approximation of hellhound, which I have never heard in Japanese.

Cerberus

Nice.

Apparently, Hell is not such a central concept in Japan...

Robusto

No.

Cerberus

Alas.

Robusto

15:56

It doesn't occur to every culture to punish people after death. Only a select few.

Cerberus

Then what do they threaten heretics with?

Robusto

They don't threaten, they eliminate.

user116848

Yo

user116848

This is amusing:

user116848

16:07

Talking in questions seems like a fun idea.

user116848

I read.

Johan Larsson

@arrowfar nice one

user116848

Thanks!

Robusto

17:53

2

A: Request for aggregate data regarding deleted questions with subjects containing CORRECT, GRAMMA, or RIGHT

Including deleted questions: Deleted Closed Open Closed% Deleted% Cl or Del% ------- ------ ---- ------ -------- ---------- CORRECT 938 1513 1687 47% 29% 51% GRAMMA 250 341 333 51% 37% 54% RIGHT 111 17 294 38% 2...

@tchrist: so what's your take on this? ^^^

Mitch

18:10

0

Q: How do I change the plot of a story from a happy state to a sad state in a proverbial manner?

Blockquote It was a cloudy cool day.I woke up late wondering about the dream that I had last night.I usually don’t remember dreams but this dream was special,all the dreams that I had that night were special in some ways.One of the dreams of which I have vivid details was about going to beac...

expressions proverbs

tries... to ... hold... back... snarky... response

"and then when I woke up I remembered that I had cancer... and my dog had just died"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

35

Q: The Efficacy Of Stack Overflow's Question Title Filter

I'm getting pretty sick of this meme that the title check being run on Stack Overflow (and Super User and Server Fault) is somehow ineffective, obviously broken, etc. etc. So, I'm going to drop the science hammer on it. Before we get into the numbers, I'll outline the inspiration and purpose of...

discussion title quality question-restrictions

> actively helpful - 37% of all titles gained some detail
benign - 62% of all titles became no worse
actively harmful - 2% (3 total) posts obviously hacked around the filter

Robusto

18:49

Beginning Middle and End (Classic Sesame Street)

►

Mitch

20:50

The Tale of Mr.Morton

►

Mr Morton is the subject of the sentence and what the predicate says he does.

"When quotes are put around this sentence, it has no meaning at all other than that someone could use it"

QT - Hey QT

►

After the first minute you can skip towards the end. It's a 'Quined' advertisement.

tchrist

22:25

@Rob I don’t know. I haven’t time to put my brain on it. I have so many other things competing for my attentions right now — work, paperwork, work, taxes, family custody issues, lawyers, taxes, work, homeowners drama, missing checks, work, bills, taxes, work, work, work, out of town guests, work, taxes, paperwork, work — that I am sleeping only 4-6 hours a night out of nervousness, and I don’t trust my own judgement enough to think anything and be sure of it in this condition. Must sleep.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto yeah

Cerberus

@tchrist Is there any reason in particular why you didn't mention work?

Johan Larsson

can't go much lighter than that.

Cerberus

@tchrist Pop a tranquilliser to sleep better.

tchrist

@Cerberus WINDOWS JAVA WINDOWS BATCH FILES GOTO JAVASCRIPT WINDOWS REGISTRY JAVA WINDOWS

I am the last person in the world to pick through the bone of shit written by ex-employees who couldn’t be arsed to write a goddamned makefile or leave instructions about a system I know nothing about.

Instructions amount to edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename edit recompile rename some 8 times, moving things around to different machines and running programs we don't even have. People should be shot.

And everything is by hand.

You uncompile the damned binaries and the assholes have checked in binaries that do not correspond to nor build from the checked in source. And you cannot regenerate.

15,000 line Windows batch files with nothing but GOTO for flow control and abstaction.

Somebody needs to die in a fire.

Slowly.

Johan Larsson

22:32

Why can't you sleep Tom?

tchrist

And three times third-party vendors have completely screwed me over by sending me crap that blows up because they are complete incompetents and I have spent a week each time trying futilely to figure out what was with wrong my code and the answer each time is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the other parties have sent you broken garbage that CANNOT WORK and then after another 80 hour week of debugging other people's broken frameworks I get told oops we're sorry.

That's why I can't sleep.

terdon

I just hope you don't own a gun.

tchrist

I have put in about 10 weeks of time in the last 6, at least 5 of which were spent on wild-goose chases due to other people fucking up and fucking me over.

Of course I don't own a gun.

terdon

:)

tchrist

These are not people in my own company.

I also don't sleep because of nightmares, and I don't want to return to them. So I get up to look for imaginary bugs in my own code that are because other people are complete asshole idiots who send me lies.

I don't want apologies.

I want shit that isn't broken.

Do your job, idiots.

Then there is hardware that does not do the same thing twice in a row, that gets random errors that are not repeatable.

Cerberus

22:41

@tchrist I presume in this language you're working with, goto refers to line numbers, doesn't it? Can't you automatically replace that with a non-evil method of reference, such as labels?

tchrist

@Cerberus It has labels. That doesn't help as much as you think.

It often cannot find the labels.

Because it's bullshit.

There is some code path they never tested and it does a goto to somewhere that is not even fucking there.

Cerberus

Isn't it better to start over from scratch?

tchrist

Not possible.

Cerberus

But this isn't possible either, is it?

tchrist

Right now I'm doing commits and rebases and merge conflict resolution.

I got it to work and I wash my hands of it.

Cerberus

22:44

Congratulations!

tchrist

But I won't even get in a car right now. I would be a danger to myself and others through sheer inability to pay attention.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist just watch my contact page and relax, shortly you will feel like you weigh 1000kg and the bed is made for it.

tchrist

Any git repo that requires web pages of scores of manual steps to get to do right should be wiped out. If there is no Makefile, screw you.

Not repeatable.

We have a college newhire who has to grab these reins and run with it, extend it majorly. I need to try to show him around. He's very smart and has a great attitude but I cannot get blood from a stone.

There is no order here. No automation. Just very very bad hacks. The sign of a diseased and disorganized mind.

And I have had to make sense out of it. I thought I would go mad.

@Rob Every single "is this correct?" question has an utterly useless title that needs to be completely rewritten before it is acceptable. I don’t give a damn if we block those people from making more work for the rest of us. That's assuming those postings can be saved. More than 50% cannot.

I don't know how to express that in a way that is apt to garner support right now.

SmokeDetector

23:36

[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website: English word for the Urdu "Amanat" by Volodymyr Protsenko on english.stackexchange.com

crl

Danny Macaskill: The Ridge

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