English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

16:00

@Jez I have no idea how you flirt, but try to take the way you talk with friends as a basis, if you need some way to come across as less desperate.

Jez

@Cerberus yeah. i find it hard not to get burned.

yeah, i tend to do that.

user19161

@Jez No pain, no gain.

Jez

course, it doesnt help when today is her bday and she's got her bf staying at home for it

Cerberus

To do what, come across as needy?

Jez

lol

no, to talk to them as a mate (as best i can)

Cerberus

16:01

Ah OK.

I mean, you shouldn't do that all the time, but when in doubt about appearing too needy.

Jez

what do you do the rest of the time?

user19161

I think it's OK to appear desperate. It's kind of cute to me.

Jez

you're male.

user19161

Ultimately, don't change who you fundamentally are just to impress a girl.

user19161

Then the right one will come along.

Cerberus

16:03

I don't think it's cute, but, yes, it varies: some people like it.

Jez

why, when who i fundamentally am is single?

z7sg Ѫ

@Jasper That's cute. It's not true though.

Cerberus

@z7sgѪ Nah it is sort of true.

user19161

@z7sgѪ OK you need to look and try hard too.

Cerberus

@Jez Being single is just a temporary state. Have you ever had a girlfriend before?

Jez

16:04

only very briefly. i'm not sure most would really classify it as 'having a girlfriend'.

aedia λ

@Jasper Sad-desperate is different than angry-desperate. The former invites compassion, affection; the latter exudes a scary, creepy aggressive vibe.

user19161

@aediaλ Right, the former then!

Jez

what was the consensus on what would be appropriate if she visited my house?

user19161

@Jez Just to add, you don't need to listen to any of us in the end.

Jez

i know.

aedia λ

16:07

@Jez Everyone is fundamentally single. It's not like some sort of Siamese-twin-Vulcan-mind-meld happened when we got partnered. Or did I miss that part?

Jez

@aedia not if you define 'single' the way i do

"not in a relationship"

user19161

For me, I will make a last attempt...

aedia λ

I just wanted to make fun of those people who say "we're having a baby" and "we're going on a cruisy-woosy because we love them so much, don't we snookums".

user19161

@Jez Relationship is also not well-defined.

Jez

intimate relationship with a person that would preclude one's getting into an intimate relationship with another

z7sg Ѫ

16:12

@Cerberus It's just that, well @Jasper said it after, it that things don't happen unless you do something to make them happen.

user19161

@Jez It's hard to draw the boundaries. Just follow your heart in these matters, and everyone's heart is different.

user19161

@z7sgѪ Thank you. See? I am always right!

Jez

follow my heart? bad advice.

my heart wants her... now.

even i know that letting your heart lead the way is generally going to fail

Cerberus

Ack, major browser crash.

user19161

@Jez What I mean is follow your heart but you have to see what her heart is too!

z7sg Ѫ

16:15

@aediaλ Oh Frigg I hate that... and now she wants to know why I don't have a pet name for her.

user19161

@Cerberus FF?

Cerberus

@z7sgѪ Oh, very true. But it doesn't have to happen right when you want it.

@Jasper Yup.

@Jez Yeah it's a combination of things.

user19161

By the way, what does "turra" mean? A girl used that to sign off a few years ago.

Jez

@Jasper it's slangish, for "tara", which is a casual British way of saying "bye"

i would guess

user19161

@Jez Does it mean she won't talk to you again?

Jez

16:17

nope, it just means "bye"

unless im wrong

was she British?

user19161

@Jez OK thanks. That was the most beautiful girl I know, until recently.

user19161

@Jez No, but she is in UK now. But she was not then. Maybe influence from friends.

Jez

yeah

aedia λ

@z7sgѪ You should have known by now that my favorite color was chartreuse! And I can't believe you didn't bring me flowers!

Cerberus

That used to be my fav colour too!

user19161

16:20

Mine is blue.

Cerberus

user19161

But there are many kinds of blue.

Jez

mine used to be red, but i've since decided i love the most the colour of the Wolves home kit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverhampton_Wanderers

Kitḫ

OK. I'm back. I have some advice. You want it?

Jez

sure

Kitḫ

16:22

So working from the assumption that therapy is not an option (because if it is an option, do that first), then let's beef up your profile so you get more interest.

Jez

@Kit you're assuming that there are a decent number of women in my area to see it

user19161

You can beef up yourself too if you are not confident of your physique.

aedia λ

@Cerberus I just love the way it's spelled. It can be kind of painful to look at...

Kitḫ

@Jez That's not the point. The point is having practice at presenting yourself as an eligible mate.

aedia λ

I would say my favorite color is more like purple, or

Jez

16:23

ah

user19161

@aediaλ Lovely. That's the blue I like.

Jez

love the orangey colour

z7sg Ѫ

@aediaλ The web colour chartreuse is painful but in real life I think it's okay.

Kitḫ

Your profile is a great place to start, because it's in a happy, non-social-anxiety-provoking format.

aedia λ

I have had a fascination with deep turquoisey colors for a while.

z7sg Ѫ

16:24

@Jez That's orange isn't it?

Jez

probably close to orange yes

aedia λ

@Jez It's a peppy orange! I like it. It's almost like a clementine

Cerberus

@aediaλ Hehe oops.

user19161

Oh @jez your avatar will scare most girls away I think!

Kitḫ

ahem

Cerberus

16:25

blog.okcupid.com/index.php/my-best-face

aedia λ

@Kitḫ Sorry, sorry, let's get back to ~~ripping Jez to pieces~~ helping Jez.

Cerberus

Here you can upload a few pictures, and people will anonymously tell you which of the pictures they like best.

Kitḫ

I think you should use the B&W picture of yourself as your main profile pic.

Cerberus

I tried it, and my picture that I liked best myself came up on top, so it may not tell you much news; but it does work well.

Kitḫ

That's your best one. Your current one is blurry and seems like you've not made much effort, which is off-putting.

aedia λ

16:27

Mildly cliche, but I concur; it's better than the blurry one.

Cerberus

I think I agree.

user19161

@Cerberus Is that your FB one?

Kitḫ

Also, can you change your profile name?

Cerberus

@Jasper Not sure what I have there, probably...

@Jasper Yes.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Wait, you have an OKCupid profile?

user19161

16:28

@Cerberus I liked your other photos better, but those were probably more ancient.

user19161

@Kitḫ No, I was referring to sth else.

Kitḫ

@Jasper But I wasn't.

aedia λ

I would delete some of the other photos entirely. Especially the ones at the bottom.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Maybe! Hehe. I read about the photo test, then had to make a profile to take it. Never done anything with it yet, no messages or stuff. But I might.

Kitḫ

It's a bit odd to see a family photo with your parents' faces pixellated.

Jez

16:30

im going home.. but i'll be back in 20 mins

user19161

@cerb I like the one you took in your white tee shirt, sitting alone.

Kitḫ

@Jez OK, ping us and we'll keep "helping."

@Jasper Sounds sexy.

Cerberus

@Jasper Thanks!

user19161

@Kitḫ The quote marks look dangerous.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Hehe "helping"...

user19161

16:31

@Kitḫ Very sexy. It was in my fantasies for a while.

Cerberus

I'd love to pick up a camera and for us to take a few good pictures of Jez.

@Jasper Oversharing again...

user19161

Did I miss sth? Where is Jez's photos?

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Well, you could offer.

Cerberus

@Jasper okcupid.com/profile/jez9999/pictures

Kitḫ

@Jasper On his OKCupid profile.

Cerberus

16:32

@Kitḫ I don't live nearby at all.

aedia λ

@jez (The expression in the current lead photo isn't bad at all; it's nice that you're looking at the camera, it's just that the photo is blurry and it looks like a work chair.)

Cerberus

And I'm not quick to meet people from the internet.

@aediaλ Agreed.

Kitḫ

@aediaλ I also agree.

user19161

@Cerberus Ah, now I know what he looks like!

Kitḫ

The pirate one might actually be the best.

Cerberus

16:34

I vote B&W 1, Pirate 2, top one 3.

aedia λ

@aediaλ And I point out that b/w profile photos are cliche fully knowing that pretty much all my own real-life profiles have them. Old ones too. But I'm lazy and not caring about meeting people.

user19161

The black and white looks best.

Kitḫ

But the pirate one is more fun.

And fun = hot chicks.

Cerberus

But I think 1 and 2 could be balanced by a more mundane photo like 3, but of a bit better quality and perhaps with some props, like something personal in the background: a window, a bookcase.

Kitḫ

Yes, good idea.

Cerberus

16:36

And, you know what? I am actually in favour of posting a short video of your self on a dating profile, because it is so much more telling.

It is scary, though.

aedia λ

The pirate one is more fun. I think silly photos are good. I would definitely keep that one but it's a shame it isn't just a little easier to see his face in it.

Cerberus

Someone else should do it—turn on the video camera, ask a few questions, turn it off. Make you smile.

aedia λ

Oh, man, I would never do that for any site. I can't tolerate my voice in recordings. I would do it twenty times and delete them all.

user19161

@aediaλ Yes I remember you called yourself silly when I said the Chinese "aida" sounds silly.

z7sg Ѫ

@Cerberus maybe not people who max out the aggressive score

Cerberus

16:37

@aediaλ Yeah I'd definitely keep that one in; but no silly photo as main one.

@aediaλ That's why someone else should record it and approve it.

@z7sgѪ Heh. Or anyone else, usually.

Kitḫ

I have a 3 minute video of a presentation I did on YouTube. My old boss teases me that I sound like a flight attendant in it.

(Because it is so practiced.)

user19161

@Kitḫ Are you going to show us?

Cerberus

Although a friend and I did invite red-headed girl twins to my birthday when we were 17, that was actually fun. We had known them for years online.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus splutters

@Jasper No.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ I'd give you some booze first, and record you halfway through the evening, making fun at ourselves all the while.

@Kitḫ Why splutter? It was cool.

Kitḫ

16:39

That gives me thoughts that make me blush.

Cerberus

Nothing amorous at all!

That wasn't an issue at all.

Kitḫ

Well, you know how my mind works.

Cerberus

I moderated a discussion forum with one of them, and the other one frequently chatted with my friend.

Kitḫ

And I'm enjoying it.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ ...

No comment!

Kitḫ

16:41

@Cerberus getting me drunk with red-headed twins and a video camera.

And you expect me not to comment?

Cerberus

Heh.

I suppose I expected no less.

But ehm I have to go.

user19161

@Cerberus Bye dear!

Kitḫ

Self-flagellating so soon?

Cerberus

Visiting a friend in the Hague for dinner.

Kitḫ

Have fun!

Cerberus

16:42

Supposed to be there in an hour...

aedia λ

@Cerberus Bai!

Cerberus

Which I'm not going to make.

Bai!

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Thanks!

Jez

back home

aedia λ

Hullo hullo!

Kitḫ

16:49

Oh, it's nice that you don't have a far commute!

Jez

15 mins

Kitḫ

So have we overwhelmed you yet?

Jez

nope

Kitḫ

OK. There was a bit of discussion about your picture, which you can read.

And while you do that, I am going to get some lunch. I'll be back shortly.

aedia λ

@Jez I read, or rather, skimmed, your text. Ready for some thoughts?

Jez

16:54

sure

aedia λ

You use parentheses a bit excessively. It makes you seem hesitant or like you need to qualify things. I don't get that feeling from you when you write here in chat; it doesn't seem like you.

Similarly, you use "I guess", "most of the time", "wouldn't mind", "would have to say," things like that, throughout.

It makes it sound like you were nervous writing the thing.

I don't remember you coming off that way in EL&U; you seem confident of your opinion and willing to advance an idea for the sake of discussion even if you might be wrong.

Jez

i tried to target it at the kind of women who would be reading it

Rebecca Chernoff

Hi folks! (:

Jez

hey

aedia λ

Hola!

user19161

17:03

@RebeccaChernoff What's up?

Rebecca Chernoff

I was just looking to see what's up with the blog. (:

user19161

Oh OK.

Rebecca Chernoff

No, the sky is not falling. If that's what you were leaning towards. q:

user19161

@jez I think the black and white photo is the best.

user19161

@RebeccaChernoff I learnt that one only recently.

Rebecca Chernoff

17:06

learned what?

user19161

@RebeccaChernoff The sky thing.

user19161

I never knew the joke.

aedia λ

@Jez You presume they like people who are less, rather than more, definite in their opinion?

Jez

i dunno. more quirky... less serious.

Kitḫ

@Jez I was giong to say something similar to what aedia said about your profile.

The quirky is good.

But there's a lot of it.

aedia λ

17:08

Some of the bits in parens are funny. Don't take out the bit about mountainclimbing. Do take out the bit about the cat dragging in the dead animal.

Kitḫ

Yeah. I thought the cat part was funny, but probably off-putting for a first time read.

aedia λ

Don't try to be quirkier than you are for real.

Jez

i probably am that quirky for real

aedia λ

@Kitḫ ^This.

Jez

lol

aedia λ

17:09

Also, if the most interesting junk that came out of your garden was a toy truck, maybe don't even mention it.

user19161

@jez But you look quite different in each of your photos.

Rebecca Chernoff

Anyways, since the blog has been set up, it'd be great to see some posts written and published!

user19161

Exactly guys, let's blog!

aedia λ

I had a telegraph wire insulator that came from under my house and my husband didn't even care.

Kitḫ

@Jez The other thing is that you talk a lot about what you are into, but you don't say what you are looking for, so the hot chick reading it can't imagine herself in that role in your life.

aedia λ

17:11

I thought it was pretty cool.

Kitḫ

We have a dozen of those on a shelf in my house.

:-)

user19161

@aediaλ If that were longer, it would look like sth else.

Kitḫ

A coke bottle?

user19161

You know what I mean, don't pretend.

aedia λ

My mom uses it as a paperweight. And I saw one in a museum, and another at a flea market, and I was like, those are just like mine! and even though we even got radio licenses and read about the history of telegraphy and stuff my husband was like, uhh, who cares, it's a glass thing.

Kitḫ

17:13

@Jez So you have a pretty good "I'm a late twenties guy who is funny and nice. I like cats and playing squash. I have bad taste in movies and worse taste in music, but my reading choices make up for it."

You'll want to continue it...

Jez

do my reading choices make up for it??

aedia λ

Like, do you want somebody to play squash with, or climb fake mountains, or what?

Jez

i know what i want. it wouldnt go down well in my profile.

Kitḫ

"I'm looking for two hot bi girls who are into each other and tying me up."

Or maybe "I'm looking for a sensible twenty-something woman who wants to start a family."

aedia λ

"I'm looking for someone who will eat the vegetables off my pizza."

Kitḫ

17:15

Or "I want a relationship with just someone who doesn't make me throw up please."

JSBᾶngs

@Kitḫ don't say that. it comes across as simultaneously desperate and elitist

Kitḫ

I was just illustrating a point.

@Jez OK, so tell us and we'll figure out how to say it.

Jez

I want a sexy babe who is desperately into me, will do anything to stay with me, likes what i do (gaming, squash, not much else really), will help me build a social life, have great sex, and preferably do my housework.

Kitḫ

Hmm. That is difficult, but not impossible.

Jez

lol

user19161

17:18

@Jez Sounds cool.

Kitḫ

OH, another thing I would suggest is that you should casually mention in your profile that you have social anxiety.

Jez

@Kit sounds like a terible idea

Kitḫ

Something like "I have social anxiety, so I'm not into the bar scene, but I love to cook for friends and go to the movies."

This accomplishes several things.

First, women will find it interesting because it is something they can help you fix, which women just love to do to men.

Jez

(or they will think im a loser)

aedia λ

Nonono listen to Kit!

Kitḫ

17:20

Second, women will admire your honesty and your bravery, so they will want to have sex with you.

Jez

what?

user19161

@Kitḫ Really?

Kitḫ

Third, they will assume that lots of your weird little awkwardnesses must be because of your little disorder, and they will be forgiving instead of just rejecting you.

Jez

what weird little awkwardnesses

Kitḫ

It's brilliant. Trust me. But just mention it, don't harp on it. Don't make it look like it is the focus of your life.

@Jez Whatever weird little awkwardnesses you may have (we all have them).

Jez

17:22

well i've buggered about with the profile tons of times, i'll do it again

how about we move onto what generally happens on the rare occasions women respond to me?

here's a convo from a girl who actually messaged me:

> HER: hi - how are you? I like your profile, have you been anywhere exciting on holiday?

> ME: More job interviews. Got a speeding fine and points or a 'speed awareness' course for naughty bad drivers, even though I was caught by a sneaky mobile speed camera van leaving a 30mph zone going onto a 60mph country road... don't get me started.

The battery lasts about a day on average usage, and is fine as I charge it up every night. The worst thing I find is the data usage! Using Google Maps or the web browser sometimes uses hundreds of megabytes a day! I only get 1 gig a month, so I'm having to basically ban myself from using the phone's internet for the rest of the month. :-)

Kitḫ

@Jez OK, that's a good next step.

Jez

> HER: Wow, I am impressed, a speeding fine in NH,m I thoguht they shut all the cameras in NH down ? Guess these vans are cheaper to run, probably a fresh run of contractor speed companies, clamping obviously doesnt drive enough income.
>
> 1 gig is a lot, lol, whatcha downloadin?
>
> We are literally a man down, he left for a competitor.
>
> Hows this week been otherwise, plans for w/e?

> ME: Yeah, you're telling me. :-( Why can't they be like Swindon and get rid of them all? :-)
>
> I don't really know what's using up so much bandwidth, really. A web browsing session seemed to use 200MB. I've banned myself from opening the thing until next month's allowance starts!
>
> Week's been OK... bit boring at work. Probably going to play squash and see mum at weekend. You?

why doesnt it quote properly

Kitḫ

@Jez waves hands Not important. Keep going.

Jez

And after that, i never got another response.

aedia λ

@Jez Did the phone battery bit here come in response to some other question from her?

Kitḫ

17:26

@aediaλ I was going to ask that too.

Jez

oh LOL

Kitḫ

It seems like some of the conversation is missing.

Jez

oops i missed 12 msgs out

i cant really quote em all here

aedia λ

S'ok, I was just going to say... it seemed rather odd to tell someone about your phone battery right away.

Kitḫ

I thought so too.

But also that several paragraphs is a lot at one time for a casual chat.

aedia λ

17:28

Good point.

Kitḫ

Here's a good bit of general advice for interacting with women...

aedia λ

Need to mimic the conversational style of whoever initiates. If they're not, like, using paragraphs, they probably don't want to get them back.

Kitḫ

1. You will not close the deal on your first introduction, so don't try.

2. You want to pique their interest, not not not start dating them after one sentence.

Jez

WRT the paragraphs thing, she started. here's the real first 3 msgs:

> hi - how are you? I like your profile, have you been anywhere exciting on holiday?

> Hi there. :-) Well I've been to the USA and Canada... and some Greek islands when I was really young with my parents. We went to France for a school trip too. Are you a backpacker?

> Hey,

Thanks for your reply, you must have gone to a pretty cool school, dont think mine ever took us further than Scarborough!

Hah, no, not travelled to that extent I would class myself as a backpacker, I have been to Greece, Turkey and Ireland with my backpack, but that was on a tour of the country.

How long have you lived in Northampton for now?

so.........

Kitḫ

That's good!

You responded appropriately, brief and to the point.

Jez

17:31

yeah, and look where it got me

Kitḫ

And you asked her a question to give her an opening to respond to.

Jez

wasting my time, getting absolument rien

Kitḫ

My guess is that you kept up the conversation for too long.

First encounter, never more than five minutes, and you should be the one to say "oops, I have to go."

Jez

nono, this isnt like an IM convo

Kitḫ

Leave her wanting to talk to you more about whatever that interesting thing was that you had just barely scratched the surface of.

Jez

17:32

these messages were probably a day apart each

aedia λ

I sometimes don't even bother to respond to my friends' messages if they're about things like how work is boring and technology sucks.

Probably half my messages with distant friends are us both saying "hey, so, I know I didn't message you back last week, how's it goin?"

Jez

just goes to show, you can follow every rule in the book, and get nowhere on online dating. and you wonder why i gave it up

aedia λ

Good conversations aren't rulebound.

@Kitḫ And ^this, whether it's instant or days apart; it's the same.

Jez

but all those people out there saying it's somehow easy to get women: bullshit.

that is all.

aedia λ

The other person has to be driven to write more so that they can elicit another novel response from you. If your response is predictable (for example, the topic is dull, like weekend plans, and they can imagine what you might say) it makes it less likely they'll respond. On the other hand, people can't stop talking to Cleverbot - the unpredictable responses are like crack - but you don't want to seem that idiotic.

@Jez Don't be so picky?

Jez

17:43

im not. they all seem to expect an eternal stream of very interesting stuff, like you're alluding to

i cant maintain that

Kitḫ

@Jez It's not easy to get women, and you've got harder odds, but that's not to say it is impossible.

Jez

some people say it is

Kitḫ

@Jez You don't have to maintain it, just keep them interested long enough to actually get to know you.

Jez

and most guys get them so it would seem easy

Kitḫ

@Jez Well, they are wrong.

aedia λ

17:45

@Jez [citation needed]

This is a dupe! Not too localized:

1

Q: What is "o-matic"?

I found "o-matic" in my dashboard of wordpress.com. There is "Read-o-Matic". And there are some news from staff. What does it mean? I feel it's "recommended to read", isn't it?

Kitḫ

I remember that!

aedia λ

Srsly, pplz, "o matic" wuz 2 hard 2 type in surch box? le sigh

z7sg Ѫ

@aediaλ he had o-mattic for some reason

aedia λ

@Kitḫ Nice comment :) I concur the other one is felicitous!

z7sg Ѫ

i edited that

Jez

17:52

@Kitḫ I am utterly useless at coming up with forms of words to let her know how she would fit into my life without sounding totally arrogant. Examples.

aedia λ

@z7sgѪ Huh, I see.

z7sg Ѫ

@Kitḫ It was an okay question but I voted to close first then edited. If I had edited first I would never have voted to close. :)

Kitḫ

@Jez I'm thinking.

z7sg Ѫ

@aediaλ mebbe stoopid forrinerz carnt spell velly wel?

Jez

also what crap can i cut out of there.

aedia λ

17:54

@z7sgѪ I wuz lambast ewe! Not dem ;)

z7sg Ѫ

@Jez Get with me bitch, you are totally fine.

aedia λ

@Jez You mention squash and trying to stay fit twice. Cut one of those.

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