English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

15:00

@Jez If she really is, do you really need to hook up now? If you have a really good match, and if you keep in contact, you'll end up together some day...

Jez

@JSBngs and im just asking what would the lines be

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Very true.

Jez

@Cerberus or she'll get married to her bf. one of the two.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Like Kit said, you can't know how well you'd work together. My advice would be to befriend her and maybe something will happen later, meanwhile, try to find someone else.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 A professional masseur?

Kitḫ

15:00

@Jez This link gives me a login screen.

Jez

@Kit i guess you need an okc account

Kitḫ

@Jez Or break up with him and date someone else.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, just some guy who wanted her.

Alenanno

hello everyone

Kitḫ

Got baby duty. Later!

user19161

15:01

@Alenanno Hi!

Cerberus

@Jez No, your link is just the home page.

Jez

@Kit oh wait...

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Haha, well in that case...

Hi Ale, bye Kit!

Jez

okcupid.com/profile/jez9999

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I agree.

Kitḫ

15:03

@Jez I'll look in a little while.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew befriend to what degree? txting? chatting on phone? meeting? meeting at my place?

Cerberus

> I'd say I'm an atheist.

You're very careful, haha.

Kitḫ

Also, are you sure they are not just looking for a third or into cuckolding?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Your link doesn't link to your own profile.

Cerberus

Your profile looks fine to me.

Kitḫ

15:04

And now poopy diaper changing time...

Jez

@MrShinyandNew no?

@MrShinyandNew i posted 2 links, check the second one

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Have you tried his second link? It works for me.

Jez

@Cerberus looks fine, huh? well i get zero messages from it. shows how useful okc is when you live in the sticks.

Cerberus

@Jez Aren't guys supposed to send messages to girls?

Jez

@Cerberus i get very few responses, and those that do tend to stop talking to me after 5 or 10 mins, presumably because 100 other guys are talking to them

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:06

got it, 2nd link works.

do you read the okcupid blog? they have several posts about what makes the best profile.

Jez

yeah, ive tried mucking around with it a lot

but ive kinda come to the conclusion that it's basically ok and the problem is lack of local women on the site

another question: is the cliché that just a relationship, but no other friends, can make you happy?

if you feel like that's all you need?

or will that never be enough?

JSBᾶngs

@Kitḫ i love it when you talk dirty on this site

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez a relationship (with a "Significant Other") is probably not enough for most people.

Jez

right, but i'm not most people.

i feel it would be all i needed to be content.

for a brief period of time (a month), i was in a relationship, and i was

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah those are great!

@Jez I suppose that would be theoretically possible, but I am very sceptical. Why is a girlfriend the holy grail?

Jez

15:11

@Cerberus i don't know... but it is the one thing the lack of which causes me major anguish.

Cerberus

Isn't it healthier to tell yourself that you don't need any girlfriend, and just enjoy it if it happens?

Jez

i find it hard to control when i'm in the company of other couples

sure, i try to tell myself that, but it doesn't stop the anguish

Cerberus

@Jez I know, being the 121th wheel sucks.

@Jez You need to believe it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez But having a relationship becomes work, eventually. And that work doesn't do itself, and having a life outside the relationship helps.

Jez

you dont choose what to believe.

it's a function of your experiences, your inputs, and your auto-processing

JSBᾶngs

15:12

@Jez i strongly identify with this. i feel for you.

Cerberus

Besides, you're young. Chances are very high that you will find someone in the next ten years.

Jez

why, if i didn't in the last ten?

user19161

@Cerberus Ten years is a long time.

Jez

it seems like all i ever hear from girls i want to get off with is "there's someone out there for you"

Cerberus

@Jez Because most people do; and a great many people are single at our age. At least be glad you're a guy, so you have much more time before the ovaries start rattling!

Jez

15:13

but if they're all like you... they're all taken and they'll all say the same thing.

JSBᾶngs

there is a strange fact that women in general are turned off by men who strongly desire to be in a relationship. one of the ugly but unfortunately true things that those pick-up-artist books teach you is that women want a man who is somewhat disinterested in them, at lesat at first

so if you exude the quality of being desperate for a gf, that's probably working against you

Jez

@JSBngs doesn't it depend on the woman?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Really? Never thought so.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez everything depends on the woman, somewhat. i'm speaking in generalities

Jez

@JSBngs i mean my grandma is always telling me to have to courage to go right ahead and ask girl i like out to the pictures, or whatever

Cerberus

15:14

@JSBᾶngs Right, that is true to the extent that you shouldn't be too desperate. But actually playing hard to get usually does more harm than good, I believe.

user19161

@jez Perhaps one day you will be happy even if single, like me.

Jez

@JSBngs not "seem disinterested"

@Jasper not helping.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus depends on what "hard to get" means. the ideal stance is something along the lines of "I want you, but i don't need you"

Cerberus

@Jasper I suppose so, but, well, why the haste?

@JSBᾶngs Right, absolutely.

Jez

huh??

you mean why NOT the haste

user19161

15:16

@Jez I turned from desperation into resignation over the years. I still want very much to be with sb now, but if it doesn't happen it's OK.

Jez

hmm i suppose i understand

Cerberus

No, why do you need to have a girlfriend now? Why is it really necessary?

Jez

@Jasper well... that eventuality depresses me, so i'd rather not think about it

@Cerberus because jealousy and anguish of everyone in a relationship (which is almost all my family) is ruining any chance i might have for a normal social life.

z7sg Ѫ

@Jez well if you have been in a relationship that gets scary and weird then you will appreciate it a whole lot more

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I think that's fairly obvious... society and peer pressure condition people to feel inadequate if they can't succeed with the opposite sex. That was totally me throught high school

Jez

15:17

and ive tried to get over it. and i cant. i feel the only way i might is by getting into a relationship.

Cerberus

@Jez Is that really true?

Jez

@Cerberus yes.

i dont like meeting my brother, because i feel deeply jealous about his gf

i dont like meeting my cousins

Cerberus

@Jez Look, I don't know you well enough, but this sounds like a serious issue.

Jez

of course.

user19161

@Jez Jealousy is another issue you have to deal with. It is a separate matter.

Jez

15:18

but im sick of trying to deal with it thru CBT or something, i just want to fix it by getting what my brain clearly wants.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Jez, do you have any extra-curricular activities?

Cerberus

If it's really this bad for you (which I think is totally irrational: I am single and don't have a problem with it at all), perhaps you should work on your own psyche first?

Jez

seems the simplest solution

Cerberus

CBT?

Jez

@Cerberus been there, done that

can't managed to change it.

cognitive-behavioural therapy

user19161

15:19

@Cerberus cognitive behavioural therapy

Cerberus

@Jez OK, with an actual therapist?

Jez

yep.

Cerberus

For this specific issue?

Jez

doesnt do it for me. my subconscious is extremely powerful.

it breaks through all rational thought and inflicts negative emotions on me

yes

Cerberus

Perhaps you should hang out with single people more?

user19161

15:20

I am trying to follow but all of you are typing too fast.

Jez

@Cerberus i'd rather hang out with a gf more

Cerberus

@Jez Can't you do both at the same time: keep active on dating sites (taking care not to seem too desperate) and hang out with single people more?

Jez

@Cerberus im not sure how you go about 'hanging out with single people'

most people aren't single

user19161

@jez Just do anything and everything that helps, though that is cliche.

Jez

@Jasper you have reached a stage of resignation that i'd rather not get to

Cerberus

15:22

I don't know, surely you know some single people? Call them more often. Join a club or sport or whatever where there's new people.

Jez

i dont know many people in the area. this is why i like this girl.. she's like me. not that many interests, and she likes gaming.

user19161

Ya, there are hot singles here like @cerb!

Jez

hard to make new friends

Cerberus

@Jez Perhaps you should do more things in your area, like sports, other clubs?

user19161

Oh Jez, I wish I could talk to you in person. You sound really sad now.

Cerberus

15:24

@Jasper We all!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Maybe most people aren't single, but they don't always hang out with their girlfriends. Fill up some time with activities that involve other people (who are "alone" if not "single", or... whatever), and you'll stress less about being single, and maybe meet some eligible ladies.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew like by doing what

user19161

@jez As long as she is not married it is fair play.

Cerberus

What Mr says. I'd hate to always be hanging out with couples!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez well what are your hobbies

Cerberus

15:25

@Jasper I disagree very strongly.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew gaming, playing squash... running out of ideas now

programming

user19161

@Cerberus I am not talking about cheating, whatever that means. Sometimes one naturally feels less for a person over time and more for another, that's what I meant.

Cerberus

Isn't there some kind of competition you could join in a squash club?

Jez

yeah, im in the leagues. but alas squash is one of the least sociable sports on earth.

it's fun, but it's not sociable.

also, the demographic is 99% male

Cerberus

@Jasper Yes, OK. But trying to court someone occupied usually doesn't succeed, and you'd be wasting your own time and energy, and lowering your own self-esteem in the process.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:27

@Jez you could take up a sport where you can meet people. like squash in a club or running with a group of runners. or take lessons in something like archery or something a little unusual.

Jez

@MrShinyandNew and that's where social anxiety kicks in

Cerberus

Yeah, if squash isn't suitable, join a debating club, anything that you might like. If you hate it, find another club.

Kitḫ

@Jez Are you a programmer by profession?

Jez

@kit yes

Kitḫ

I see you like driving and exploring.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:28

Actually I'd suggest taking courses in something that interests you. For me, it's Mandarin. Not that I'm trying to meet girls. But I do meet people.

Jez

i probably put 'exploring' in there as a joke

Kitḫ

Are you considered a hobby that would involve you driving people places?

It's relatively low social pressure.

Jez

i tried a French course. it sucked. a bunch of middle aged boring people looking to learn a couple of phrases for their holidays.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez social anxiety is a problem. But you can mitigate that buy doing something that's fun first, and meet people as a collateral benefit.

Cerberus

Perhaps you cout fit out a caravel and set sail for Atlantis?

Jez

15:29

@MrShinyandNew yeah, shame i cant find much else that's fun first

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Good advice.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez So try bar-tending or cake decorating.

Kitḫ

Bartending is a great idea.

Jez

a) i dont have time for bartending

b) i have SA

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

pick up some skills which can be fun to talk about or good for meeting interesting people.

@Jez SA?

user19161

15:30

@MrShinyandNew安宇 social anxiety

Cerberus

Hmm has your therapy gone into that too?

Kitḫ

So what about volunteering/charging to drive people places?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez I don't mean tend bar as a job, I mean, take some courses.

One way to cure social anxiety is through exposure. The more often you meet people the more common it becomes, that can help de-sensitize you.

user19161

@Jez Deal with one thing at a time, and soon all will be dealt with.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That too; but why not add therapy?

Jez

15:32

therapy is damn near impossible, because they tend to work 9-5.

i work 9-5.

z7sg Ѫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 courses in bartending? :D

do they exist?

user19161

@Jez Really?

Jez

really.

my doc agreed with me that it was dumb.

user19161

I don't know but sb who can make FF addons should be smart enough to figure this out himself.

Kitḫ

That's a bummer. Sounds like therapy would be very helpful for you.

Cerberus

15:34

I agree.

Jez

@Jasper programming prowess is miles away from social prowess. in fact it's often mutually exclusive

Kitḫ

@Jasper Come now, social anxiety is a disorder. Awareness of it doesn't fix it.

Cerberus

Surely something can be arranged about the therapy?

Jez

this is the NHS.

i don't have private healthcare.

Cerberus

You did see that other therapist, didn't you?

Kitḫ

15:35

@Jez I could offer a few suggestions about the profile, but I don't think there's anything significantly wrong with it.

Jez

contrary to popular opinion, the NHS often sucks, especially when it comes to mental health

user19161

@jez From our conversations it sounds like you are lacking in confidence. I just feel that you need more confidence.

Jez

@Cerberus other therapist?

@Jasper i agree.

Matt Эллен

@Jez If you're willing to pay for therapy then you can get it at any hour.

user19161

@Kitḫ Right, but I was just talking about the issue in general.

Cerberus

15:36

You said you'd gone through other therapy, CBT?

Jez

yeah, back when i was at college. i had lots of spare time in the day when i could attend

now that i have a real job, i don't.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

But can't you ask your boss to give you leave? You could make up for the lost time by working later or something?

Kitḫ

AFK. Back later.

Cerberus

Or are you loathe to bring it up with him?

user19161

Hello @matt!

Matt Эллен

15:38

@Jez why are you unwilling to pay for therapy?

Cerberus

Hi Matt!

Jez

they're very strict about work hours here. their giving me half an hour a week off to go to therapy is unthinkable.

@Matt i think it's very unlikely to help anything (given my last experience), and i'm not rich.

Matt Эллен

Hi @Cerberus, @Jasper :)

user19161

@jez Your lack of confidence is in your body, mind or soul?

Jez

i don't believe i have a soul, so i'd say "mind"

Matt Эллен

15:39

@Jez You don't need to be rich. Therapy can't help people who won't let it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@z7sgѪ Yeah, there are courses in bartending. I was going to take one but then my friend who was going to come with me decided to become a teetotaller (long story) and I didn't really want to go by myself so I didn't make the time. Plus I learned some basic techniques at home.

Cerberus

@Jez That's weird... what if you explained the problem (that you needed therapy, not what for) and asked him how this could be solved? Surely doesn't want you to turn in sick or anything with a burn-out.

Jez

@Matt oh god, that is seriously cliché

user19161

@Jez So you think you are not interesting enough, and not that you don't look good enough?

Matt Эллен

@Jez Well, I'd write a research paper, but I'm pushed for time ;)

Jez

15:39

@Jasper i don't think i'm very interesting, and i think i have a deeply irrational fear of socializing.

user19161

@Jez Oh dear, this sounds serious.

Cerberus

@Jez You're plenty interesting. I will give you a voucher you can show to girls.

Jez

hah

Matt Эллен

@Kit I like your new name! You new avatar is very fitting. Feisty!

user19161

Seriously show them your FF addons.

Jez

15:41

depends on the girl. most of em round here are bimbos that like to dance the night away.

Matt Эллен

@Jez you could try moving

user19161

@Jez Perhaps try to change the kind of people you target.

Matt Эллен

not to sound flippant, but a fresh city could give you fresh perspective

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez One way to become more interesting is to do more interesting things. Maybe you can take up martial arts, at a school that emphasizes one-on-one training. That way you get to know your classmates better.

user19161

I used to like one kind of girl but now I like another kind.

Jez

15:41

not really an option. im tied down with a mortgage in a house that, tbh, i really like. if only i could just get into a relationship i'd be content.

Matt Эллен

go to a university city, there are plenty of smart girls in uni towns, and gamer girls too

Jez

technically my town is a university town

Matt Эллен

@Jez ah, fair enough

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez You could also try a "starter relationship" with one of those bimbos. Who knows, maybe there's more to her than what she does on a friday night?

user19161

And cute guys like @matt.

Jez

15:42

@MrShinyandNew they dont tend to find me interesting enough to even meet up.

Matt Эллен

@Jasper well, yes :D but we're not trying to discourage him

Jez

'showing her my firefox addons' wouldnt work.

Cerberus

8

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You know this conversation really reminds me of one of my friends here at home. His situation is a lot like yours.

user19161

@Cerberus That is very sweet.

Jez

15:44

@Cerberus I'll frame it, and we'll see.

Alenanno

@Cerberus lmao :D

Cerberus

Hehe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Business-card, baby!

user19161

Hey, noone made a voucher for me, but I don't need it!

Jez

But bear in mind, I'm interesting to you guys.

Matt Эллен

15:44

yeah

can you not build from that?

we're a diverse bunch

Cerberus

@Jez Do you want a girl who isn't interested in debates and these things?

z7sg Ѫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 need a single buddy or two to go out with, someone a bit cheeky who will initiate stuff.

Matt Эллен

you're interesting to all sorts of people

Jez

@Cerberus no, but i can't find any available girls who are

Cerberus

There are plenty. But perhaps they aren't as out-going as the bimbos.

Jez

15:46

maybe it's a Northampton thing.

Matt Эллен

I agree though, about making friends. I've found it very difficult to make solid world friends since I left uni.

user19161

Well, if there are no girls, perhaps it's time to switch to guys. No, just joking.

Cerberus

Could be... can't you date with someone a bit farther away?

Jez

I try.

i fail

z7sg Ѫ

@Jasper Nothing wrong with that mate if it's what you're into.

Jez

15:47

they dont like the travel

user19161

@Jez Keep trying! Be a Belieber.

Jez

i mean girls in London have a ton of guys in London.

Matt Эллен

@z7sgѪ aye, but it's difficult to "switch" to it if you're not into it!

Cerberus

@Jez True... but other cities within an hour's drive?

Jez

they all have a ton of guys in their respective cities

Cerberus

15:48

I doubt it.

Jez

i've found it near-impossible to convince them that i, an hour away, would be worth considering

Cerberus

I am the laziest person ever, and I'd date up to The Hague or even Rotterdam (yuck).

z7sg Ѫ

@MattЭллен Is it? Well at least you've experimented. If you don't try you'll never know I guess!

user19161

@Jez Keep trying. I keep saying that because it is the truth of life.

Jez

@Cerberus you're male.

Matt Эллен

15:48

@z7sgѪ :D

user19161

@z7sgѪ I have only experimented in my thoughts.

Cerberus

@Jez I have girl friends (notice the space) who have dates outside their city.

z7sg Ѫ

@Cerberus Rotterdam or anywhere ♪

Cerberus

Especially those outside the capital are less fussy about travelling an hour or so.

Jez

@Cerberus British culture is a bit of a sucky factor too.

Cerberus

15:50

@z7sgѪ Heh what?

@Jez Why?

user19161

Perhaps I should start experimenting with guys soon...

Jez

women play near-impossible-to-get

Cerberus

@Jasper I encourage it!

Jez

this girl i like? she's from Peru originally.

Cerberus

@Jez I don't know, Dutch and English culture shouldn't be too far apart...

BRB

Jez

15:51

@Cerberus Dutch culture has traditionally been a lot more liberal.

user19161

@Jez At the end of the day, if you really wanna know what she's thinking, ask her.

Jez

@Jasper wasn't it mentioned earlier that you need to not come across as needing her?

that's gonna come across too strong.

user19161

@Cerberus I might have done some thought experiments with you.

user19161

@Jez Well, I don't agree with that.

user19161

Frankly speaking, I think a lot of dating advice is BS.

Jez

15:53

ça c'est bien sûr

Matt Эллен

Brilliant Stuff

user19161

@jez Of course. I am not a Belieber for nothing.

Matt Эллен

tarrah!

Cerberus

@Jasper Then you haven't proceeded very far!

aedia λ

Coffee?

Cerberus

15:58

@Jez I agree that you shouldn't act too needy. Just flirt a bit with her, but stay on your guard: some girls do play games.

user19161

drinks Vit C

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