English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

14:01

It seems that "when you will come to see me" can mean "when you are finally willing to come and see me", so including "will" gives it another meaning.

user19161

1

Q: Using "will" twice in a sentence

Is it correct to use will twice in the following sentence? When you will come to see me we will have dinner together.

JSBᾶngs

i'm here, sort of

@Jasper to me, "when you will come to see me" is just wrong

i can't think of a context where i would actually say that

anyway, in the OP's original context he clearly needs the simple present

user19161

@JSBᾶngs I was thinking of a situation where sb doesn't want to come initially.

Lauren Ψ

hey everyone

user19161

Hi. What's up?

JSBᾶngs

14:03

morning @Lauren

Lauren Ψ

sorry the interrupt the will/will debate :)

user19161

This room has no fixed topic anyway.

JSBᾶngs

@Jasper the use of "will" to mean "be willing to" is pretty archaic, and i don't see it applying in this context. if i wanted to express your idea i would say something like "when you want to come and see me..."

Lauren Ψ

just wondering if you guys could link me to some of your favorite ELU questions so I can send them to a blogger

z7sg Ѫ

good afternoon mortals :)

JSBᾶngs

14:04

@LaurenΨ oh, fun

Lauren Ψ

yeah I'm sponsoring a blog post over at stancarey.wordpress.com

user19161

@LaurenΨ But favourite in what sense?

Lauren Ψ

and he wants to share some of our questions with his readers

z7sg Ѫ

@LaurenΨ Well, my favourites are all in my favourites list already!

Lauren Ψ

@Jasper highest quality?

if you wanted to showcase this site

show people how good it is - which example questions would you show them?

user19161

14:05

@LaurenΨ And you would take that to be distinct from the most highly voted?

JSBᾶngs

@Lauren english.stackexchange.com/questions/9780/…

40

A: Why is "q" followed by a "u"?

There is no rule that q must be followed by u in all circumstances. This is merely true in the vast majority of circumstances, and it goes back to Latin. The early Latins had three different letters for the [k] sound: C K Q. However, they only had one letter to represent the [u] and [w] (or [v])...

Lauren Ψ

@Jasper yeah they don't necessarily have to be the most highly voted

JSBᾶngs

21

A: Pronunciation of the English alphabet

This is actually a very good question, and it has deep roots. Like many things, it goes back to Latin, which had very regular rules for naming its letters. English inherited the Latin system, extended it in various ways, and applied its own sound changes, resulting in the system we have today. V...

14

A: New Oxford American Dictionary describes "the" as an adjective

That is so wrong it makes my eyeballs bleed. Let's consider some syntactic tests, shall we? Adjectives can be compared with -er and -est (or more and most): A bigger house The biggest house ! More the house ! Most the house Adjectives can be placed in a predicate: The house is bi...

z7sg Ѫ

@Jasper Those are just the Justin Bieber songs of ELU.

JSBᾶngs

(i'm copying my favorite answers from my user page. yes, i am a shameless rep-whore. but in my defense, i think these are all great questions and answers)

Lauren Ψ

14:07

@JSBngs that works! thanks

user19161

13

Q: Which is correct: "worse comes to worst" or "worst comes to worst"?

Which is correct: worse comes to worst or worst comes to worst? The former seems more logical but the latter is what appears in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary.

idioms

user19161

11

Q: 'Just deserts' vs 'just desserts'

Which is correct when referring to the punishment gotten by an evil-doer: just deserts or just desserts? Are both acceptable due to common usage? (Compare buck naked / butt naked and strait-laced / straight-laced.)

idioms

Lauren Ψ

I'm basically looking for stuff that represents our scope pretty well, and is also impressive and interesting

JSBᾶngs

5

Q: Why English pronunciation differs so much from written language, compared to German?

Given that English is derived mostly from German, when Anglo-Saxons (German tribes) migrated to Britain, how do you explain that although German has a strict correspondence between written language and spoken language (the sounds largely follow 1-1 what is written)... English has sooo intricate...

pronunciation british-english germanic-languages

user19161

9

Q: 'Strait-laced' or 'straight-laced'?

The words strait and straight have different meanings. Why do strait-laced and straight-laced then have the same meaning?

meaning

user19161

14:10

OK @Lauren. Those are my favourite three questions for your consideration.

z7sg Ѫ

71

Q: What is the origin of ZOMG?

I have looked in a number of places, with contradicting results. The Urban Dictionary provides a whopping 73 "explanations", of which I will quote just a few. (Original spelling and punctuation preserved.) ZOMG is a varient of the all-too-popular acronym "OMG", meaning "Oh My God". ZOMG...

etymology slang internet

JSBᾶngs

17

Q: Is it "despite" or "despite of"?

Should I always use 'despite' instead of 'despite of'?

grammaticality differences prepositions

^ good example of a mediocre question getting a super-double-awesome answer

Lauren Ψ

awesome

thanks!

I'll check these out and send them over to Stan

JSBᾶngs

3

Q: If the English language is always evolving, why do we need to learn and follow grammatical rules?

Since language evolves over time — the best example I can think of is slang where it mostly doesn't follow grammar rules — why is there a need to preserve grammar or stress that proper grammar be used? My second question is if someone can get their exact point across to another perso...

grammar slang language-evolution

^ this question is closed (wrongly, i think. vote for reopening, peeplz). but it has two excellent answers

user19161

@z7sgѪ Well, JB is a great musician in my opinion!

user19161

14:17

@kit New avatar!

Jez

@Cerberus wtf? you totally lost me. those are French expressions. where does English come into this

or are you talking about Dutch?

Cerberus

@Jez Talking about French all the time!

No other languages involved.

Jez

so what was your point about the 't' then?

Cerberus

I was wondering where it came from.

Turns out the t in va-t'en! comes from te, which I suppose is not surprising; but what about the t in a-t-il, etc.?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs The answers are good but the question is bad, should it be edited before re-opening?

JSBᾶngs

14:21

@MrShinyandNew安宇 that would probably be a good idea

i can take a shot at editing if necessary

@Kit i adore your new h-with-under-caron

also, what's with the valkyrie?

Cerberus

Better question: what's with Linguistics?

Looks like it will hatch any day now, the breeding having been completed!

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus really?

Cerberus

Yup!

100 %

JSBᾶngs

hooray! woohoo! i can't wait

and i have a good set of questions i'm just dying to ask about

Cerberus

I know right.

Oh, cool.

JSBᾶngs

14:25

it looks like our own @MrShiny was the one to put us over the top

Cerberus

Do you think speculations will allowed as answers, lacking hard evidence or research?

Very good.

New site must be shiny.

I do hope we will attract enough questions...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs actually it was already 100% when I committed. I thought I was already, but it turns out I was committed to "languages" instead....

Cerberus

It is a bit of a niche subject...

Haha.

Reading is hard.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerb change that back. it was much funnier with the typos

or else i'll rescind your star

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah, it's a bit odd that area51 only lets you commit to 3 proposals, which will just sit there for ever, while other proposals come along

JSBᾶngs

14:27

@MrShinyandNew安宇 you can uncommit

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs that's what I did once I realized my error :)

Jez

@Cerberus the "t" in a-t-il is a representation of verbal lubricant which makes "a il" easier to say.

like the "n" in "an", i suppose.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Where's kit when we need a dirty joke?

JSBᾶngs

@MrShiny did you edit the slang/grammar question? it looks different than i remembered

Kitḫ

@JSBᾶngs Starts about here

@Jez There's a word for that, but I can't remember it. It is similar to elision, I think.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:30

@JSBᾶngs nope.

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Whoops too late, but typing is hard too, you know.

Kitḫ

How did we get such a stupid star wall?

Cerberus

@Jez Yes, but why a t, and not any other consonant? Does it come from some word, like l in l'on and t in t'en?

Kitḫ

Let's all try to be super clever and witty for the next hour or so, so we can have some cool comments over there —>

JSBᾶngs

@Kitḫ obviously you need to say more interesting things to clear the board

Jez

14:31

@Cerberus dunno.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Liaison?

@Kitḫ Shoot!

Jez

though funnily enough they don't always use that verbal lubricant. one expression is "à un de ces jours"... not "à-t-un..."

Cerberus

I am a conservative starrer.

@Jez Yeah, I think it's mostly with pronouns, and inside words.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Lauren english.stackexchange.com/questions/6170/…

Kitḫ

@Jez But you'd get sort of a "yun" sound there right?

Baby hollering. Must go. Later.

Cerberus

14:34

@Kitḫ Huh I don't think so.

Lauren Ψ

@MrShinyandNew thx

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't have that "y" sound there either

Cerberus

Bye Kit!

Jez

@Kit really? I'd have thought it was "a un"

@Kit with vowel collision

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@LaurenΨ Your request has made me realize that I've been remiss in starring questions.

user19161

14:34

@Kitḫ Hope you are not referring to mine!

user19161

@Kitḫ Like me.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah I'd say a full glottal stop in careful speech, some sort of diphthong in quick speech?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Like mine.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah.

user19161

@Cerberus Like me. I don't do stars on SE.

Cerberus

14:37

@Jasper That is conservative indeed.

user19161

@Cerberus That's naughty. But really, I don't star anything on the main sites or in chat. Though I star some people in my mind, you know who.

Kitḫ

@Jasper I am, actually.

user19161

@Kitḫ Oh dear. Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that includes the beauty of my messages.

Kitḫ

@Jez You speak better French than I do, I'm sure.

user19161

@kit Now you really look like a guy with the new look.

Kitḫ

14:40

@Jasper I just don't think "Dear Sonic, please stop spamming." is very clever is all.

Cerberus

@Jasper Naughty?

user19161

@Kitḫ Did you even check the context?

user19161

@Cerberus "Don't do stars" has two meanings. See? Not many people understand me.

Jez

i really hate it when there's a girl who has a bf, but she is still rather flirty towards you such that you feel led on, like there's some chance she may be yours one day

Cerberus

People, let's keep it nice, shall we?

Kitḫ

14:41

@Jasper I shouldn't have to. That's not the point of the star wall.

Jez

it's very frustrating, my higher reasoning vs my baser instinct

Cerberus

@Jasper Oh, I see! No, I didn't get that one. But I just hate pop stars and anything related to them, so...

@Jez I know the feeling.

user19161

@Cerberus Keep what nice? There's nothing bad happening.

Cerberus

You must be strong.

@Jasper OK.

user19161

@Jez Just believe. Be a Belieber, like me.

Cerberus

14:43

@Jez Keep reminding yourself of her occupied status. Do you have to see her daily or something?

user19161

@Cerberus @jez Don't listen to Cerb. Just do what you want.

user19161

You only have one chance to live. Live it to the full.

Jez

@Cerberus nah, we txt

@Cerberus she talked about coming round to my place, so she seems to be a bit of a tease

she also (apparently jokingly) talked about moving in

Cerberus

@Jez Ah OK, those can be frustrating. But you know, they always look greener when they're unobtainable...

Jez

it just makes me focus on what i don't have

Kitḫ

14:46

Sounds like she's messing with you because she likes the attention.

Cerberus

@Jez She no doubt likes you, but... file it as a compliment, and imagine her doing that to other guys if you ever get her.

Jez

mmm i know. :-\

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Yes, which is OK up toa point.

Jez

sighhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cerberus

@Jez There's plenty of other girls!

Kitḫ

14:47

You can check by not giving her that kind of attention and seeing how she reacts.

user19161

@Jez It's OK. There can be miracles when you believe.

Jez

not for me there aren't. i very rarely come across a girl like her who seems a lot like me

Cerberus

@Jasper Would you want to be with someone who is easily seduced and is unfaithful to her guy?

Kitḫ

You know, there's an expression that might be helpful. "Even if she's one in a million, that still means there are three or four thousand out there just like her."

2

Cerberus

@Jez It's always like that for people who are critical. But She will come.

@Kitḫ Hear, hear!

user19161

14:48

►

Jez

@Kit she's one in a billion

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

►

JSBᾶngs

@Kitḫ starred. keep this up and we can clear the stupid out of our star board in no time

Cerberus

@Jez Then find those other five.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez That sounds like a math error. Check your slide-rule accuracy.

Cerberus

14:49

Slide-rules are infallible!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus but slide-rule operators are not

Jez

in other news, my other cousin is now engaged. well, yay.

im not going to her frigging wedding

good luck to her

JSBᾶngs

@Jez you don't like this particular cousin?

Jez

i'm more bitter than a lemon

user19161

@Cerberus We shouldn't pass judgement so easily when we aren't really sure what's going on.

Cerberus

14:50

@Jasper A serious question: do you think it is morally defensible to seduce someone into unfaithfulness?

@Jasper It is just a preliminary judgement.

JSBᾶngs

anyway, my advice re: the girl w/ the bf is to keep it at the flirtation level, and let her decide whether she likes you enough to ditch her boyfriend

do not encourage anyone to cheat

Cerberus

@Jez Get your ass on a dating site, then.

Jez

@Cerberus been there, done that, got some t-shirts

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez can I ask you which sites you tried?

user19161

Talking about T-shirts, who got the swag?

JSBᾶngs

14:51

(in college there was a girl i kinda liked, and flirted with off and on for three years. in our senior year she finally broke up with her bf and we got together. briefly. then i went to romania and met my wife.)

Jez

okcupid, plentyoffish, and match.com one time

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs I agree; but many people seem to thing that the moral "fault" lies entirely with the cheater, not with the outsider...

Jez

@JSBngs what did her bf do on her birthdays?

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus well, many people are obviously wrong

Cerberus

@Jez Did you get some fun dates out of those?

Jez

14:52

@JSBngs was he caring?

@Cerberus no.

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs I tend to agree, though some pro arguments exist that aren't absurd on the face of it.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez he was in a different state. but other than that, there didn't seem to be anything wrong with him.

user19161

@Kitḫ Now you must be happy since you got two stars.

JSBᾶngs

keep in mind that it's not like i was waiting for her all this time. i had like three other girlfriends myself during this time

Cerberus

@Jez Why not?

Jez

14:53

@Cerberus the question is, why would i?

i'm male, remember

JSBᾶngs

i would consider it fair play to encourage her to break up. but no fooling around before the breakup.

Cerberus

@Jez Well, to sweeten your bitterness?

@JSBᾶngs Agreed.

Jez

@Cerberus I'll rephrase: why would I be able to?

Cerberus

@Jez Why not? I have no idea how you go about on those sites, but I'm sure there are girls there you could have a match with. Just as with this text girl.

Jez

I don't know whether she was just fooling around, but on the offchance that she wasn't; if she came round to my place, what would be off-limits? hugging? holding hands?

Kitḫ

14:55

@Jez Sexual relations.

Jez

@Cerberus well i've tried, and all i can say is that women on online dating sites tend to ignore me.

@Kit clearly.

Kitḫ

@Jez Better marketing. We can help!

Cerberus

@Jez Perhaps you've been sending messages to the wrong kinds of girls?

JSBᾶngs

@Jez i would be more conservative than @Kit (big surprise). i'd say you just not invite her over to your place.

Kitḫ

I'd be happy to review a profile for you and give you input.

Jez

14:56

perhaps there just arent enough girls near me

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Off-limits would be whatever her bf considers an intrusion, IMO.

Jez

@JSBngs well i invited her to a town near me with stuff to do, but she kind of suggested coming to mine instead.

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs I'd say so too, unless you know your self-control is very strong (mine is).

Jez

whether in jest, i couldn't tell

Cerberus

@Kitḫ That would be cool!

Jez

14:57

@MrShinyandNew i don't know what that is, so i'm guessing

JSBᾶngs

but note that i condemn myself, as i did make out with the girl in my story while she was still together with the old BF. she went home and broke up with him that weekend. and i make no attempt to defend my actions.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 But clearly sexual relations are out. Everything else is a grey area. Playing checkers is probably OK.

JSBᾶngs

@Jez coming to your town or to your house?

user19161

@Kitḫ Chess is better than checkers.

JSBᾶngs

@Jasper chess is way too sexy

Jez

14:57

@JSBngs house

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs That's still far better than her continuing the relationship and lying.

Kitḫ

@JSBᾶngs Agreed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Sure. but I know a girl who was surprised when her boyfriend was mad that some other guy gave her a 1-hour massage. Like, duh?

Jez

the thing that causes me anguish is, she's damn near the perfect girlfriend for me

she likes the stuff i like, and is a bit like me

and is attractive

sigh.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Haha... well, it does depend on the circumstances. If he were her brother or gay...

Kitḫ

14:59

You think that, but until you actually are a couple, you can't really know.

user19161

@JSBᾶngs LOL. Hope you enjoyed the portabello mushroom. I still drink tea everyday.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yeah, he was neither.

Jez

as for advice, this is my okc profile: okcupid.com/profile

JSBᾶngs

@Jez hey man, i'm not telling you not to go for her. i'm just saying, color inside the lines.

Jez

it's probably the least-bad of my profiles

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…