English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

13:00

@terdon Because I'm in the US I can safely ignore reality.

Back to pie... and cake... there are no real brands of those, so I think we're OK.

Dammit... subconsciously manipulated by the Betty Crocker./Duncan Hynes cabal!

I'm still safe with pie though.

Matt Эллен

yeah

Mitch

looks around nervously

Matt Эллен

pie's safe.

terdon

What a crock!

Mitch

sigh of relief

get's out fork

Matt Эллен

13:02

except for ginsters. and pieminister

Mitch

Those are ... things?

Matt Эллен

brands of pie!

and Mr. Kipling

terdon

@Mitch Who's Get and what is his "out fork"?

@MattЭллен Rudyard?

Matt Эллен

Who cares if it rains tomorrow?... Today's Pie day Friday, now there’s something to smile about! http://t.co/0wFHUYtm7B

Tweeted by pieminister on October 3, 2014 at 10:05 AM

@terdon my pies and other desserts

terdon

Heh :)

That's what'shisname though, Durrel.

Gerald!

Matt Эллен

13:04

terdon

Durell?

Durrell!

Matt Эллен

@terdon damn it. I get those confused

terdon

That was a great book though. I was actually lucky enough to both read it at the right age (pretty much the same as the author's) and while being on the same island the book was set in.

Matt Эллен

:-o

Mitch

@MattЭллен Damn you...today's still Thursday.

Matt Эллен

13:09

muahahahahaaaaaa

~~dash Mitch's hopes~~

terdon

@MattЭллен That's one long dash.

Matt Эллен

I have been building my stamina

terdon

Hmm. There's an interesting word actually. At least 3 completely different meanings (rush, destroy and --)

Mitch

@terdon Common misconception. An outfork is really a regular fork just held backwards. Kind of like a fish slice.

terdon

@Mitch Sometimes I really wonder about you...

Mitch

13:12

@terdon Wait...does your last name happen to be Durrell too?

@terdon That's how long my hopes are.

terdon

@Mitch How'd ya guess? Nah, it's Chapple.

>

dash (v.) Look up dash at Dictionary.com
c.1300, probably from a Scandinavian source (compare Swedish daska, Danish daske "to beat, strike"), somehow imitative. The oldest sense is that in dash to pieces and dashed hopes. Intransitive meaning "move quickly" appeared c.1300, that of "to write hurriedly" is 1726. Related: Dashed; dashing.
dash (n.) Look up dash at Dictionary.com
late 14c., from dash (v.). Sporting sense is from 1881, originally "race run in one heat."

No mention of the em dash though.

Mitch

@terdon or en dash.

or hyphen.

Matt Эллен

or lowphen

Mitch

@terdon If it turned out that you were actually him, it would just explain a lot of the coincidences.

terdon

Seems strange. What connection is there between dash (destroy), dash (hurry) and dash (--)?

Mitch

13:15

@terdon you have to hurry a lot to write a hyphen which destroys the continuity of a sentence?

terdon

Ah! That might be it indeed.

Mitch

Pretty obvious.

LWTBP

Guys. Was a good chat on titles. Thanks for your help. :)

Mitch

I read that very differently than intended.

etymonline.com/index.php?term=dash

'dash' seems to have a lot of really different meetings. also, dashing.

user08742

hi

Matt Эллен

13:17

hi

terdon

It also means a bribe apparently! I've never seen that one.

user08742

Do you really want to continue on this constantly decreasing spiral of despair and self-loathing? what is this decreasing spiral ??

what image does it have?

terdon

@MattЭллен is that British?

@user08742 None, that should have been descending.

Matt Эллен

@terdon Yes. Clearly. I said it. :Þ

user08742

no...its from a book

terdon

13:19

@MattЭллен You did?

user08742

many examples of it

terdon

@user08742 So?

Matt Эллен

The image is one of a descending spiral, like a spiral staircase viewed from above

user08742

decreasing?

terdon

Ugh, it does seem to be in use. Still sounds weird to me. Decreasing refers to quantity not altitude.

user08742

13:19

it is now near?

Matt Эллен

@terdon sorry, I thought that was a reply. let me look

user08742

it is now near the end

terdon

Ah! OK, no, it refers to the shape I guess. Decreasing spiral would be one that is getting smaller and smaller.

user08742

of the spiral?

Matt Эллен

people say "ever decreasing circles" meaning concentric cricles

so, a decreasing spiral is probably the same

user08742

13:21

i see

thank you

Matt Эллен

@terdon "bribe" doesn't come up in ODO. I'll have a look in OED

terdon

@MattЭллен Cool, I don't have one, thanks.

Matt Эллен

@terdon OED.com says it is used to mean tip or gift, which is similar

terdon

Wow.

Did you know that meaning? Does it have any qualifiers? AmE or BrE or archaic or something?

Matt Эллен

doesn't mention bribery. the origin is from the word dashee which is dialectical from the the Guinea coast

terdon

13:25

Huh.

Matt Эллен

only recorded in 1735 :D

terdon

That would qualify as archaic then :)

Matt Эллен

indeed

@terdon although OED does include bribe in their definition of gratuity

so I suppose it could be that

terdon

Ah, so we bribe waiters do we?

Matt Эллен

:D not to spit in our food!

terdon

13:30

heh.

0

Q: What's the etymology of "dash"?

Dash is one of those words with more meanings than letters. These include to rush (I dashed out), to destroy (I dashed his hopes), and a punctuation mark (em dash etc.). There are also various other meanings but those three are the most commonly used (as far as I know). I can understand the link...

etymology

Let's see what we get.

Mitch

@MattЭллен reminds self to be nice to waiters, also to not eat out

@terdon actually I don't understand the link between rapid action and smashing. Not close enough.

terdon

@Mitch Well, rapid action kind of implies violence. I can buy that.

Mitch

yeah...but...

terdon

Indeed. The whole thing stinks.

Mitch

Like with all these weird derivations (which happens a lot) they feel weird because you'd think there are quite a few other words that are probably nearer that would take their place first.

@terdon IKR! Why aren't people thinking before they pick out the wrong word.

Matt Эллен

13:46

84.1 IKR Radio

Mitch

Rockin' good times.

SmokeDetector

14:03

[ SmokeDetector ] Phone number detected: +91-9950211818 Marriage specialist on english.stackexchange.com

Matt Эллен

headshot

SmokeDetector

14:19

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: NO1 black magic specialist +91_9649768736 on english.stackexchange.com

Matt Эллен

I hope the other mods don't mind me sniping these guys. it's quite satisfying :D

Andrew Leach

It is, isn't it?!

terdon

Heh, so it is :)

This might be reasonable:

0

A: What's the etymology of "dash"?

The basic meaning of the verb "dash" is to "strike" violently. A "dash" is a "stroke" of a pen. You can read about it in the relevant entries in the OED.

Matt Эллен

from Josh's answer:

> The em dash (—) is about as wide as a capital H

/facepalm

hey

@SmokeDetector What are all this Phone number.

Matt Эллен

14:33

@hey smokedetector is a bot that tells us when things that look like spam are posted

terdon

@MattЭллен Why? This seems plausible:

> The em dash (—) is about as wide as a capital H. In Typography for Lawyers, Matthew Butterick dispels the myth that the em refers to the letter M. According to Butterick, the em instead refers to units of typographical measurement: “In a traditional metal font, the em was the vertical distance from the top of a piece of type to the bottom.”

Matt Эллен

@terdon sure, but it's called an em dash because it's exactly as wide as a capital M

terdon

An em is indeed a unit of measurement.

@MattЭллен Not sure about that:

Em (typography)

An em is a unit in the field of typography, equal to the currently specified point size. For example, one em in a 16-point typeface is 16 points. Therefore, this unit is the same for all typefaces at a given point size. Typographic measurements using this unit are frequently expressed in decimal notation (e.g., 0.7 em) or as fractions of 100 or 1000 (e.g. 70/100 em or 700/1000 em). Originally, the unit equaled the width of the capital "M" in the typeface and size being used, which gave the unit its name. Under this definition, the length of an em varied with both the typeface and point size. ...

Matt Эллен

> Originally, the unit equaled the width of the capital "M" in the typeface and size being used

terdon

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Em_%28typography%29

@MattЭллен Yes, but not any more. I guess that still counts though, OK.

Matt Эллен

14:36

@terdon relating the width of the em dash to any letter would then be pointless

might as well use the original

terdon

Either way, it's irrelevant to the question of why - is called a dash. I like the idea of strike => stroke => dash.

Matt Эллен

yes

Andrew Leach

- is called a hyphen.

— is a dash.

And –

Pedant mode off

Crawls back under stone

terdon

raises hands in surrender true indeed.

Matt Эллен

a chicken with a beard and a music collection noöne else likes is a hip hen

Jasper Loy

14:48

I am bored, so I will type something in this chat. Here it is.

I just ate some cornflakes.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Well done! I'm thoroughly entertained!

Hm... now I'm not. What next?

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен Although Maria replied, she may not be a real Maria, so I should not be happy, so now I am sad.

@Mitch Thinking of what to say.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy you're a whirlwind of emotions

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен I should find out more about Maria, to see if she is really a Maria or not. That is my plan.

user08742

Is this correct? "Your life will be the richer for an expanded worldview."

to mean if you expand your worldview your life will be that much richer?

Jasper Loy

14:56

Knowing more things about this world sometimes leads to greater suffering.

Matt Эллен

@user08742 it is grammatical and means what you want it to mean.

user08742

i see. thank you matt

Matt Эллен

no probs

Jasper Loy

Perhaps oblivion is bliss.

Matt Эллен

unlikely, since not existing prevents feeling

Jasper Loy

14:58

Sometimes, I like to believe that this is the Maria. But this is but self-deception.

Then again, it is better to have some hope than nothing.

Mitch

15:12

@JasperLoy blissful ignorance. I'm so happy!

@MattЭллен That sentence can mean anything you want it to mean? Nice! Let me try it...

Matt Эллен

:D

Mitch

Your life will be the richer for an expanded worldview.

Meaning I hope everyone dies. Does that come across OK?

Matt Эллен

I do not think it means what you think it means

Mitch

feels ripped off

Jasper Loy

@matt I will update you after I have found out if Maria is a Maria or not... Maybe end of this year...

Matt Эллен

15:15

OK

Mitch

goes back to eating paste

Matt Эллен

@Mitch it only works for user08742

Mitch

That doesn't seem very ... sharing.

Matt Эллен

I make the rules. I don't know what else to tell you

Mitch

@JasperLoy Is there ever a time there when he weather changes to unpleasantly cool? Like you have to wear a sweater or a raincoat all the time?

Jasper Loy

15:21

@Mitch Maybe one or two days in a year, due to strange winds blowing from strange places.

Mitch

15:41

Do you ever get hurricanes or cyclones?

Jasper Loy

@Mitch No, there are no bad disasters here, only bad people. Most people here are stupid and evil to me.

Mitch

People are bastards.

Jasper Loy

I know there are stupid and evil people everywhere, but this country seems to have a very high proportion of them.

Phonics The Hedgehog

16:02

Yo

Jasper Loy

Hi Zach.

Phonics The Hedgehog

Not my real name but hi XD

Jasper Loy

Can you tell me your real name in email?

Phonics The Hedgehog

Sure. Remind me by sending me one

Jasper Loy

@PhonicsTheHedgehog Done.

Robusto

16:55

@MattЭллен rimshot

@Cerberus Already starred this, but am giving you a double shout-out as well.

Cerberus

@Robusto Haha gracias!

Robusto

It's time we stopped being silent about these things.

Cerberus

looks around

I don't recall ever having been silent...

Ice Boy

whose being silent?

Cerberus

Syntactically, the agent must be the subject of the sentence.

Robusto

16:59

I just mean as a general thing. Too often people don't speak out against the excesses of religion.

Cerberus

Ah.

Ice Boy

icic

Cerberus

I don't know, religion is silly anyway, but somewhat harmless if limited strictly to the metaphysical.

Robusto

Let me be clearer: against the absurd, repulsive, inimical excesses of religion.

Cerberus

Right.

Ice Boy

17:00

colts and texans tonight

Cerberus

But even a religious world view itself often leads to undesirable mindsets.

Such as "if something bad happened to x, it must be Gods plan, he must have done something to deserve it, since the world is just".

But I must away.

terdon

17:11

I've always felt that organized religion is one of the worst things to ever afflict mankind.

Probably responsible for more death and suffering than any other idea in the history of humanity.

Mitch

17:30

@terdon unorganized religion, what a mess.

terdon

17:47

@Mitch Well, if you're going to believe in an omniscient and omnipresent God, why do you also need to believe in his Secretary?

You have something to say to Him, talk to Him FFS!

Stack Exchange

18:16

Limerick Machine: Someone once told me a lie The only healthy food is pie A sweet apple treat Or one filled with...

posted on October 09, 2014 by sgdi

Someone once told me a lie The only healthy food is pie A sweet apple treat Or one filled with meat All other food just makes you die

Robusto

18:31

@Cerberus That is one of the excesses.

Robusto

19:47

My son uses this microscope technology. He's way pleased that these guys won the Nobel.

0

Q: "There is" vs "there are"?

I wrote an essay and returned it to my teacher who told me that it was perfect except for that one mistake with the usage of there are: There are currently 192 218 546 ways to set up..." She marked it as incorrect. She told me that I should use "is" in lieu of "are". As I am pretty sure ...

grammaticality grammatical-number verb-agreement there-is

Surely this is a dupe. @RegDwigнt edited it, though. Hmm . . .

RegDwigнt

@Robusto the answer is "dump the so-called teacher", but we don't have that one posted anywhere. Which is a huge mistake on our part.

Meanwhile,

0

A: "The set is empty and [is] ordered"

Consider these options; 'The set is empty and it is ordered.' 'The set is empty, it is ordered and my work here is finished.' 'The set is empty, ordered, and soulless.' 'The set is empty and ordered but I'm still not happy'.

The answer has nothing to do with the question, and yet it's accepted.

Robusto

20:03

@RegDwigнt If we start pulling on that thread, this whole site will unravel.

RegDwigнt

0

A: "The set is empty and [is] ordered"

Both are equally grammatical and mean the same thing. The latter is ellipsis of the former. Which in turn is ellipsis of "The set is empty and the set is ordered".

Watch me pull.

Look how I didn't even mention *soulless". I am that good.

Ice Boy

how can something with no members have order?

"only by arbitrary definition"

it could be defined to have no order

RegDwigнt

20:18

Actually, it is only something with no members that can have order. As soon as a single member shows up, they immediately mess it all up. People are like that.

I disagree with the first paragraph. "If you don't reply for the next 3 hours" does not mean "if you don't keep replying". It means "if you keep not replying". Huge difference. (In fact, I struggle to think of a scenario in which "reply" could mean "keep replying". It just doesn't work that way. You have to say "keep replying" to get that meaning.) — RegDwigнt ♦ 2 mins ago

And with that I'm out for today.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Trust a Russian to be effortlessly soulless

Johan Larsson

20:33

hej rob

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: WAY BEYOND SEEKING on english.stackexchange.com

GnomeSlice

20:45

►

Ice Boy

20:59

so the colts are -2.5 tonight vs the texans...gimme da points :-)

without Manning that team is not a threat

Cerberus

22:01

@Robusto I don't know, don't most religious people have this mindset a little bit?

@RegDwigнt If you don't reply every minute, I'll assume your radio must be broken.

So you'd have to make the distributive/iterative aspect explicit.

Robusto

22:21

Cats' body language is funny. I just witnessed the "Oh, you came out of your office. I guess we'll all head downstairs and get a snack" herding prompt.

Cerberus

22:32

Haha.

Johan Larsson

22:45

►

He does some advanced moves

Mitch

23:37

@JohanLarsson The orange cat has so much control, barely moves at all

Johan Larsson

yeah, really impressive

Mitch

@terdon Do not accuse me of being a foul Secretarialist.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…