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03:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

03:06
@PhonicsTheHedgehog I bought them for about €85, so about 250%.
 
4 hours later…
07:35
@matt Boo! I saw my psychotherapist just now. I told him I will see him again in future when necessary.
sounds like a good plan
He belongs to the camp that does not believe in meds, lol
I told him I threw away all my meds, lol
I believe in doing what works
I believe that meds don't really work
but I avoid medication where possible
07:38
They work to the extent of dulling your senses so that you worry less
I have come up with a 4 line mantra to help me cope with my disturbing thoughts
It is too private to write here
so long as it helps
The therapist is from the UK, so surprised he would come to this sick country to work...
I told him that I want to leave this sick place...
I guess business is good if there are a lot of sick people
LOL
WTF
Well, your therapist will have many people to treat
07:44
Well, best joke of the year
Last Friday was my last counselling session for a while. We both agreed that I should try out the things I've learned on my own for a while.
OK. What is your problem labelled as?
I have anxiety issues
general anxiety
OK GAD
If you are thinking of whether to try meds, you can, but I will tell you I think it is useless
no. I don't want to become reliant on meds.
07:47
I have taken the meds for over a year
I might have to go back to army camp this weekend.
Those 2.5 years there was bad enough, lol, and they still make me do this shit
sounds tedious
Anyway, this time I really feel that I am going to solve all my mental problems by end 2015.
you certainly seem on a good track
I intend to study from morning to night every day next year
Very intense program to make up for the lost years
"The lost years" is a chapter in "A beautiful mind" lol
Nash lost 20 years due to his mental illness
that's a lot
07:54
In a way I feel that I have never been truly happy. My life was ruined by some sick people.
I am filled with hope for the future.
It would be good if my Maria comes along soon.
If any man solve his mental problems, behold, old things are passed away, all things become new, lol.
Just answered two questions lol
good-oh. I'm happy now that I've hit 20k
I will be happy when I have solved my mental problems and found Maria
But I can also try to be happy in the here and now
Present moment, wonderful moment
user116848
08:18
@MattЭллен I have anxiety issues too.
user116848
Hello!
@Arrowfar Welcome to the mad club
user116848
Hello @JasperLoy :D
user116848
No, I mean seriously I have anxiety issues. I don't know why?
user116848
I think these things are getting common in this era.
08:20
@Arrowfar I did not say you are not serious lol
@Arrowfar They have always been common lol
perhaps, or perhaps talking about them is getting more common :)
user116848
@JasperLoy Yes, I think so too
user116848
@MattЭллен That too :)
@MattЭллен exactly
user116848
I think panic attacks are common for women folks. But sometimes I seem to get them too.
user116848
08:22
Does it seem weird talking about that here? :D
user116848
Well Jasper does it! :)
"If more people talked about their strange thoughts, fewer people would be distressed by them." - David Adam, New Scientist
user116848
@MattЭллен Yay!
@MattЭллен If I ruled the world, the world would be a better place
08:23
maybe it would.
user116848
@MattЭллен So, what does your counsellor advices you to do to overcome anxiety?
user116848
If I may ask :-)
There are many errors in that sentence lol
user116848
@JasperLoy Like?
counsellor
advise
08:25
@Arrowfar Just some basic techniques. recognising triggering situation, noticing how I am in them, confronting what I think and seeing how it fits with reality
user116848
@JasperLoy Thanks!
user116848
@MattЭллен Ah, I see
finding places that I feel safe
You are safe here, Will, lol
user116848
@MattЭллен So, you stay home most of the time? I mean I do.
08:27
no, I have a job, so I go to that every week day :D
user116848
Yes, that too :-)
I have found a group of people I can feel safe around
user116848
Yes, they say such groups help a lot.
I've been a lot more active this year
user116848
But I haven't joined any.
08:29
I found the group before I started counselling, so it was a happy coincidence
I was looking for like minded people (in terms of my hobbies, not in terms of anxiety!)
bbl, meeting
user116848
See ya :-)
user116848
@JasperLoy Have you joined any group?
user116848
Or maybe in the past?
@Arrowfar Nope.
user116848
I see
user116848
08:33
@MattЭллен Yes, finding like minded people with same hobbies and interests help a lot. I agree
user116848
Again I made a grammar mistake. Just corrected it :-)
Don't be afraid of mistakes, we're all human.
user116848
True :-)
09:43
chat disappeared for me for a bit there
what happened?
I don't know, I just couldn't get to chat.stackexchange.com. it kept timing out
the rest of SE was fine
I get that "time out/retry" message too sometimes
hey
hey
Might be you were not able to connect due too overloaded server!
maybe the government were messing with the undersea cables!
I blame the government
09:55
They're too useless to blame most of the time :-)
hey
hey
I don't think government will dare to do that, because there will be huge problem if any cabel get damage.
We can always blame them for being useless.
 
1 hour later…
11:00
Just answered a lhf.
11:48
@JasperLoy how was your appointment?
@IceBoy Good. I did not book another one, but I will when I need to.
@JasperLoy ok
12:26
@JasperLoy You just gave it away! Her name is Maria. Woo hoo! I broke the code! Wait, I still don't know who XXX is.
@Mitch Do a google search for "XXX"
a math college entrance exam
is this possible?
@IceBoy When I google for XXX, all I get are the most bizarre advertisements for what I can only guess are weight gain for roosters and magnets for attracting cats.
3
@Mitch Naiveté is so charming.
12:35
especially when it is fake
@terdon enchanté de vous voir, mon seigneur estimé.
wait that wasn't naiveté, it was superciliosity.
Right back at'cha. Or, if that's the mood you're in, Un vrais plaisir comme toujours monseigneur.
@terdon It should be "I haven't a clue what you're talking about"
1
Q: Is the sentence "Success is determined by how you are determined to succeed" wrong?

JinI understand that the better form of the sentence would be: Success is determined by how determined you are to succeed. but is the sentence I wrote wrong or ungrammatical?

@terdon Ah non, c'est mon plaisir de faire votre connaisance. bows
12:39
Is my answer correct? I thought about it for quite a while.
This doesn't seem to work anymore but a few years ago, searching google for pussy brought up a page full of cute kittens and the header "Why, what were you expecting to see"?
stands back up
Please see my answer above.
@JasperLoy except if the sentence the OP is quoting should have been Success is determined by how you determine success
@terdon OMG!
@terdon Maybe I should add that to my answer...
12:45
@JasperLoy Go ahead.
the one already there has more of a pun to it.
1
A: Is the sentence "Success is determined by how you are determined to succeed" wrong?

Jasper Loy Success is determined by how determined you are to succeed means The degree of your determination influences the degree of your success. You should not use Success is determined by how you are determined to succeed to mean this, because the latter either means The way you f...

See if it is alright now, I am getting a bit confused myself over this!
Wow, this is the most interesting question I have ever tried to answer!
OK I have read this about ten times and I think it is alright.
13:33
Greetings.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 another day, another crank
the place is full of jealousy
13:40
Is there any rational reason to spell ID as I.D.? Assuming you're referring to identification and not intelligent design that is.
@terdon It should be Id.
is ignorance a rational reason?
@terdon it would be rational to call it your 'id' but that would sound wrong. It's more of a simulacrum' or 'homunculus'
@MattЭллен He's not a crank! He's making a point about how the government is inconsistent with its handling of religion.
really? I don't see it.
13:42
Yes, not a crank! Do not diss Him, for his noodly appendage is long and stiff and He knows where you sleep!
@terdon I commonly spell it ID, no periods.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Nope. The government is consistent. It is treating this one guy differently because he is using some made-up, imaginary, inconsequential, .... oh.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, or at least ID but what's up with the periods? They're not initials!
@Robusto Me too.
If I were to force a period onto it, I'd have to write Id. I guess.
@terdon Yeah beats me.
@terdon All right-thinking people do.
13:44
@Robusto By definition. All right thinking people do as I do. Obviously.
Well, if by "I" you mean me, then I agree. But if by "I" you mean you, then I beg to differ.
@MattЭллен His point is that people can wear all kinds of religious garb as long as the government blesses that religion. If the government doesn't bless that religion then he's not allowed to wear it.
@JasperLoy The main sentence is a pun on determined as in to figure out the definition, and determined as in really trying hard.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's consistent. Blessed or not.
@Robusto I is I and you is you. What part of it confuses you? It's all clear to I.
@Robusto You beg to differ or me?
13:46
@Mitch It's not consistent from the point of view of the religious, who have no control over what the government deigns to recognize.
I mansplained your joke for you. er ... me.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 is a collander religious garb?
@MattЭллен yes, for pastafarians.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 but that's not a religion
@MattЭллен Sure it is.
It has all the things the other religions have.
creation myth
deity
costumes and rituals
nonsense
13:47
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 except for believers
It has adherents.
Such as that guy.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 sure it is consistent. If you're religious and your religion is not registered, then stuff happens one way. If you're not registered, then another way. It only depends on if you're registered.
@Mitch There's probably no registry.
@MattЭллен Sez you.
doesn't seem like an adherent to me, seems like a rabble rouser trying to get publicity
seems like he's all about self promotion
13:48
There is no "I" in aardvark.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Where do they get their wedding gifts from then? This is what civilization falling apart is like!
@Robusto Depends on how you pronounce it. Also spell.
@Mitch there's an i in it
There's an 'i' in 'I', which seems a little egotistical, if you ask me.
@MattЭллен ...said the devil about the martyr.
:shifty eyes: There is no devil
Even the devil can quote scripture.
Good for him, he can read.
13:53
@MattЭллен I think the point is that if you allow religious freedom, you should allow all religions. There's nothing inherently less reasonable about the flying spaghetti monster than any other religion.
Who gets to say that this religion is silly while that one isn't? I find all of them silly, especially some of the better known ones. Which is why I don't get to make that call. What you believe is up to you and how absurd others find it is irrelevant.
every single one of us is a devil inside
@MattЭллен He might be seeking attention for himself. But maybe he's seeking attention for his perceived injustice about how the government gives favourable treatment to religions.
@terdon I think there is. It's a sarcastic religion, as opposed to a genuine or sincere religion, one whose adherents sincerely had mass hypnosis into believing their magical, schizophrenic thoughts.
Exactly. I think he's making a point about religion and religious freedom.
@terdon except that it is a deliberate attempt to upset all religious people at once. It's got nothing to do with religion and lots to do with making fun of people who think differently.
13:56
@Mitch Well, yes, it's true that most adherents don't actually believe as such. Nevertheless, it is a registered religion and so should receive the same treatment.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 "being allowed to wear a hat in an ID photo" really? this is your big injustice?
@MattЭллен I disagree. It has lots to do with making fun of blind faith, yes. Nothing to do with people who think differently.
@MattЭллен It's a small part of a larger problem.
@MattЭллен It is if I don't get to wear mine but someone else gets to wear theirs.
@terdon Well, if it is recognized by law then laws should be followed. Or is that another law, that law should be followed? what if you only follow the meta law sometimes, but the nonmeta law always?
13:57
@terdon people who think differently as in people who are faithful. that is differnt to people who don't have faith.
@Mitch Your thought process is as tangled as He is.
@matt It seems that Maria checks her email only once a week, so each week we only say one sentence to each other, lol. At this rate, there will be no more Maria!
@Mitch Many adherents to larger religions don't believe all, or even most, of their stated faith's tenets.
@terdon a big injustice?
@MattЭллен I disagree, for example, I have a great deal of faith. I just happen to believe in the non-existence of a creator God. That is no less a faith despite the fact that many don't take it seriously.
@MattЭллен Can you measure injustice? I mean, no, obviously, this is not such a big deal in this instance but it is a manifestation of a huge deal. Religious freedom is not small fry.
13:59
@terdon It takes way less faith to believe something is non-existent when all the evidence supports that belief.
@terdon I've never considered my lack of belief to require blind faith. What do have blind faith in?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I agree, obviously, but others will use that same argument of evidence to support their faith.
@terdon So being able to make fun of religions by wearing a collander is religious freedom for a idealogy that doesn't think religion makes sense?
@MattЭллен Look at it this way. The preferential treatment that the government allows religious people is pervasive. Among their exceptions: they get to sidestep certain laws, such as mandatory motorcycle helmets for Sikhs, prohibition from carrying knives in schools (again Sikhs), tax exemptions (all major religions), and exemptions from certain laws about what's allowed in ID photographs
@MattЭллен No, being able to create an arbitrary religion (like all others IMO) and then adhere to its tenets is religious freedom. By definition.
14:02
@terdon which tenet requires the wearing of a collander in ID photos?
@MattЭллен I don't think he's necessarily trying to make fun of other religions. Pastafarianism was created specifically to counter the fact that some religions get preferential treatment over others and over atheism.
@MattЭллен Dunno about you. Personally, I take observation as far as I can and then make a leap of faith. I feel strongly that there is no God but I cannot prove it. It is, however, my faith and a great source of comfort for me.
@Mitch I am surprised that question and answer have so few votes. I thought it would become hot very soon.
@MattЭллен That may well be a problem. Not sure about that. For the sake of this argument, I am assuming there is one.
@terdon I simply don't believe in god because I don't need to. there is no faith at all involved for me. Thank you for the perspective.
14:03
I grew up in a very religious setting and in a very religious country. It's a big deal for me and I feel very strongly about my beliefs. They just happen to be atheist is all.
Note, however, that there is a huge difference between not believing in god and in believing that god does not exist.
The latter requires a leap of faith, the former could just be a "maybe yes, maybe no, don't really care".
@terdon I am in a country where people can go to jail for insulting religions, lol.
@JasperLoy Where is that?
@terdon S********
14:05
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I thought it was just a funny idea that got out of control. The main thrust was to counter creationism
@JasperLoy S*******e?
@MattЭллен to counter creationism being taught in schools (as a form of religious preferential treatment)
It's basically an expression of Russell's flying teapot argument.
@terdon Yes. Where chewing gum cannot be sold, lol.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Funny.
14:06
Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred...
@terdon I don't think it requires faith. It's just logic to provisionally conclude that it doesn't exist until you have even a shred of reason to believe that it might.
Provisionally.
But that is the only thing that matters in practice, yes.
@terdon I wouldn't say that it takes faith to believe that Russell's teapot doesnt' exist.
Hello medium @mahnax.
Hi.
14:08
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but there's nothing provisional about my feelings on the subject. It really is a faith and a source of comfort. It is also the only reasonable hypothesis to explain the world around me, but I feel much more strongly about it than I can defend with arguments.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It does. It requires no faith to believe it extremely unlikely. To "believe" requires faith by definition, otherwise you "know".
your own personal jesus
@terdon Hm. I feel comfort from the fact that I don't need faith to believe that there is no God. Just like I don't need faith to believe that there are no fairies or leprechauns.
I don't need God. I only need Maria, lol.
I gave up on God because God gave up on me.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If you believe it, there's a leap of faith there. Else you would claim to know it. I've been on mount Olympus and saw no gods. I feel justified in saying that I know they don't exist, or if they do, they've moved out.
Can't say the same about the Judeo-Christian god.
@terdon ... enh. I think I would rather say "I know it" than "I believe it" then. And if pressed, I would say that I know it to a certain certainty, which cannot be 100% certainty, but is so close as to not matter. And that certainty is reached by logical conclusion.
14:11
Fair enough. I also say that but only when I have my scientist hat on. When it's philosophy/religion. I talk about my faith.
@terdon I feel justified in saying that he does not exist, on the basis that there is no evidence to support his existence.
Different people have different logics.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Apart from the universe...
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, but that's a logical fallacy as you well know. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
What truly is logic? That is a very deep question...
14:11
@AndrewLeach Ah, good, we needed a theist to weigh on on this :)
The difficulty is First Cause. What caused something to exist ex nihilo?
@AndrewLeach That is purely circular. If you answer that with the existence of God, you simply move it a step backwards.
The answer to that is that there need not be a first cause in some logics.
define cause
If God was the First Cause, what was His First Cause?
14:13
If we say he has no first cause, we can say the same for the universe.
And if you accept that God needs no cause, then you must also allow me to accept that the universe needs none.
@terdon Are you religious?
@terdon No, absence of evidence where you'd expect to find evidence IS evidence of absense.
@Cerberus Yes, but read the transcript of the last few minutes.
Okay.
14:13
OK, no, not really, but I have faith.
@AndrewLeach The universe looks exactly as it should look if it were created naturally.
Mr Shiny will enjoy this. For the next 10 hours. Just warning you!
OK is preferred to okay, lol.
Well, if time flows in the opposite direction to cause and effect, God is at the end of time, willing the universe into existence. so everything that happens leads to God's existence
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No! Never :) It's never evidence, indicative at best.
14:14
There might not be a beginning or end of time.
@MattЭллен That's remarkably close to what actually happened. The cosmos created us, and we created gods to explain the cosmos.
define time
What is evidence? What is proof? That depends on their definitions.
@MattЭллен Replace God with any other noun in that sentence and it works equally well.
@IceBoy I don't have time
14:15
@terdon In any case, as with Russell's teapot, the burden of proof on people making claims is to provide evidence for those claims.
@MattЭллен I only have time for Maria.
@terdon sure, but still, it is the creator of all
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Agreed. Which is why I call my atheism a faith since I believe it at a level that goes beyond what I can conclusively prove.
You are religious, but an atheist?
14:16
@terdon You don't need to prove anything, though. The burden of proof is on the theist.
@Cerberus Yup.
You must have a funny definition of one or the other term, then.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, but I do when I claim there is no God. Not only do I not believe in one, I feel very strongly that there is none. Therefore, the onus of proof is on me to show that absence. The onus of proof is on the theist to show existence and I would be free of any onus whatsoever if I just claimed I thought there was none. My belief, however, would require proof.
You believe in a God, but you feel very strongly that there is no God.
@Cerberus Religion can be boiled down to a theory on the creation/existence of the cosmos that cannot be supported by observational evidence but instead relies on a leap of faith.
14:19
@Cerberus I think terdon missed a not
@Cerberus No! I believe in the non-existence of god.
I don't know any more!
> Not only do I believe in one
That was you.
@terdon That is a rather limited definition of religion.
What if a religion has no theory about the creation of the universe?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The difficulty is First Cause. What caused something to exist ex nihilo?
14:20
@Cerberus It was? Where?
@AndrewLeach Exactly. What cause God to exist ex nihilo?
2 mins ago, by terdon
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, but I do when I claim there is no God. Not only do I believe in one, I feel very strongly that there is none. Therefore, the onus of proof is on me to show that absence. The onus of proof is on the theist to show existence and I would be free of any onus whatsoever if I just claimed I thought there was none. My belief, however, would require proof.
@Cerberus I won't defend it too much, that was just off the top of my head. The main point that defines a religion for me is a leap of faith.
Why?
@Cerberus Bugger, yes, that should have been not only do I not believe in one.
OK.
Let us suppose a universe where gods do exist. They are visible, you can talk to them, and they rule the world. Is it a leap of faith to worship them?
14:23
we call them celebrities
they live in hollywood
@MattЭллен Ha! Indeed :)
@Cerberus No, but in that case I wouldn't believe in them either. No more, and my apologies to Mr Pratchett, than I believe in the table.
I'd believe they exist but not believe in them.
I'm not sure that belief can be applied to knowable things. If you know, you don't believe, you know.
@MattЭллен And do you worship them?
Here, this definition of religion fits my usage:
> a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
From MW.
14:26
@terdon I think your definition of "belief" is rather limited.
@Cerberus some people do :D I am the anti-Cruise
I like @terdon's arguments in this chat. Very in line with my own logic.
@JasperLoy I always knew you were reasonable :)
@MattЭллен Haha thank you! I will venerate you, then.
14:27
@matt I am wondering whether I should confess to Maria now, but that might ruin things.
> My belief that linguistics is too preoccupied with terminology was again confirmed.
@JasperLoy let things take their time.
@Cerberus perhaps, and I can't find a definition that supports it. Still, whenever we say we believe in something, it tends to be something we can't prove.
> I believe the old city of Xian was to the west of Peking, but I'd have to look it up.
@terdon Well, yes, but it can be trivial.
I believe that is much like I think that.
@Cerberus Ah, but not I believe in. And anyway, that's one of its uses, not all.
> Have faith in the truth or existence of
Emphasis added.
14:29
yeah: "I think in words" is not the same as "I believe in words"
Quite.
Sure.
> I believe in the power of Greenpeace to change the world.
It is less trivial, but not fundamentally different.
So, belief in implies faith which in turn implies the absence of proof. At least in the religious sense of faith.
Any use of believe or belief implies a certain uncertainty.
@Cerberus Exactly
14:31
@terdon "Before time was, I AM." God exists and always has; God is outside time and space (which is how he can act and cause time and space to come into being at the Big Bang). But the universe did not exist at the instant of the Big Bang and was created ex nihilo.
@terdon Right.
[Sorry, I'm trying to fit chat into the day job.]
Does anyone here have a copy of Oxford Dictionary of English? Is it really big? I am thinking of getting it but the Concise Oxford English Dictionary might be of a more reasonable size.
@AndrewLeach I could say the exact same thing replacing God with universe. You just accept God as the first step.
@AndrewLeach There are several problems with the "first cause" argument. 1. Just because we've established a "start" to the universe that we "can't explain" doesn't mean that God did it. That is the "God of the gaps" problem: God is responsible for everything, until we figure out the natural process, and God's job gets smaller and smaller.
2. If the universe is required to have a first cause, then so is God. Physics explains that time itself started at the Big Bang, so logically there cannot be any cause before the beginning of time, because that makes no sense.
14:34
Of course, at that level, very little makes sense unless you spend the years necessary to really understand the math behind it.
Which kind of makes the philosophical arguments trickier.
The beginning of time and space as currently understood in physics is difficult to understand and harder to explain. That doesn't mean it requires someone to set it in motion.
@mahnax How is your school? Everything still easy?
Also, let's posit that there was a First Cause which kicked off the big bang. What evidence is there that it was Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah/Him?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Who said God is physical? Or Physical? I can't help it if the Standard Model can't explain him.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course not. I was just saying that it's bleedin complicated.
14:36
@terdon I was just continuing my argument, not responding to you ;)
@AndrewLeach Nobody. You said he was outside time and MR&N said that so was the universe itself.
@AndrewLeach The thing is: the Standard Model doesn't require Him. It doesn't need him. It has no place for him.
It doesn't explain Russell's teapot or the flying spaghetti monster either.
Doesn't even explain where all my socks get to, really.
takes a bite from Russell's teapot
@terdon I bet it can, given enough data to set up a simulation.
14:38
mmm. Belgian
@MattЭллен Chocolate teapots do have a use!
let's all have a cup of tea
14:39
I just had some cornflakes.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Good old Nestlé
I used to live in York. Never thought I could live where I could smell a factory and not mind. MMMmmmm chocolate!
I am going to take a nap.
later pal
03:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

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