English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

JSBձոգչ

16:00

guessing this is the problem

tchrist

yes, if you encode twice, you will mojibake.

common problem.

wrastling with such stuff at $job just right now. things keep getting bigger and bigger, since each pass through makes the data uglier and wronger.

it's all hidden down in framework stacks, and hard to find/fix/account-for.

@GnomeSlice Because I recognize a snipe when I see one, that’s how.

JSBձոգչ

urk. gawd, could that be the problem? normalization?

i have some characters encoded as s + combining diacritic acute

and if they get normalized on the far end as s-acute w/o the combining diacritic... that would result in a hash difference

Mahnax

Hiya.

tchrist

back

Mahnax

This stats class is really simple so far, and boring too.

tchrist

16:12

@JSBձոգչ I wonder why something would be running through an NFC/NFD pass without telling you. But sure, that would be different. You’re doing Polish?

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist conlanging

tchrist

I still wonder why it would be doing a normalization pass, but sure, that would botch it.

You should probably send stuff in NFC to external recipients, although I tend to use NFD internally myself.

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist gawd knows what the remote server is doing. the utf8 string has to be urlencoded, so i wind up with Urho%CC%83 on the wire

tchrist

read, decode, NFD. blah blah blah. NFC, encode, write.

JSBձոգչ

for Urhõ

Ice Boy

16:14

@Mahnax how many classes are you taking?

JSBձոգչ

alright, so lets normalize

what's the api for that?

Mahnax

@IceBoy Five: Stats, Calc, Calc-based Physics, English, and Chem.

Ice Boy

@Mahnax :-O

tchrist

use Unicode::Normalize qw(NFD NFC);

Mahnax

@IceBoy Why the face? That's normal here.

Ice Boy

16:16

@Mahnax it looks heavy

Mahnax

@IceBoy Nah. It's pretty simple stuff for the most part, based on what I gleaned from the syllabi.

tchrist

macbook# perl -le 'print "\x{14D}"' | nfd | uniquote -b
o\xCC\x84
macbook# perl -le 'print "o\x{304}"' | nfd | uniquote -b
o\xCC\x84

macbook# perl -le 'print "\x{14D}"' | nfc | uniquote -b
\xC5\x8D
macbook# perl -le 'print "o\x{304}"' | nfc | uniquote -b
\xC5\x8D

Ice Boy

@Mahnax four would be more manageable around final exam time :-)

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist that was the trick. now excuse me as i swear for 10 min over what a PITA this was

tchrist

UI see CC 84 not CC 83.

Robusto

16:18

0

Q: What are Java Programmers called?

I know that those who code in Python could be called Pythonistas, Pythoneers and Pythonists and Ruby programmers I think could be called Rubians? not sure. Anyways, my question is, are there nicknames for other language users? More specifically, is there one for a person that codes Java?

programming

Is that really our job? To say what Java programmers are called?

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ read, decode, decompose. crunch, crunch, crunch. recompose, encode, write.

Easy thing to miss, but if you don’t do it, stuff will someday hate you.

looks like today is your day.

Mahnax

@IceBoy Haha, well. Engineering students have to take six classes.

I'm not one of those, though.

JSBձոգչ

i can't imagine how i would ever have figured this out if i weren't at least moderately familiar with unicode

familiar enough to know the difference between composed and decomposed characters

tchrist

you wouldn’t have.

Ice Boy

@Mahnax If you get overwhelmed, keep an eye on the last day to drop a course without a penalty.

tchrist

16:21

the number of code points changes, but they are still canonically equivalent. and the byte length changes too.

Mahnax

@IceBoy I'll be fine. Thank you though.

tchrist

@IceBoy i just had that damned dream again last night.

JSBձոգչ

and of course md5 doesn't care about your fancy codepoints. all it cares about is bytes on the wire.

Ice Boy

@tchrist It is a nightmare

tchrist

I never remember the good dreams.

@JSBձոգչ Wide char in sub warnings?

Ice Boy

16:22

no one does pal

tchrist

You need good dreams to keeping living.

Ice Boy

for sure

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ This is why I always thump for an alternate transcoding layer that auto-normalizes.

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist ah, but i only got those when i was messing around. i suspect that the "bug" is in MediaWiki, but it's possible they can't even do anything about it. i further suspect that PHP's built-in unicode libs convert everything to NFC wheter you ask for it or not (and MediaWiki is in PHP)

tchrist

Oh, probably.

JSBձոգչ

16:24

BUT the important thing is that it works so i can move on with my life

tchrist

For example, the OED uses COMBINING MACRON in its SGML, but if you don’t normalize before it hits the web, good luck in getting a good-looking supported character result.

good.

now i get to go fight with converting a latin1 mysql database into utf8.

unipain

Problem is people stuck decoded utf8 bytes into it as though they were 2 or 3 latin1 chars.

yech

Ice Boy

@Mahnax to begin with, put all your effort into not falling behind.

tchrist

I am always confusing myself about what encode and decode mean if I'm not paying attention, and say the wrong thing to people.

Like how encode_utf8($internal) does not return a string of Unicode code points; it returns a string of bytes instead.

So it's internal_unicode_to_utf8_as_binary_bytes().

But that’s too long to type.

Ice Boy

In fact @Mahnax, try to read ahead and prepare for classes, things are a lot easier when you know what the prof is going to say, before he/she says it.

tchrist

And the decode_utf8 should be external_utf8_bytes_to_internal_unicode() or some such.

Mahnax

16:29

@IceBoy Thank you, I know. Most of the material in my classes right now is stuff I already know.

Ice Boy

good, good :-)

the level of sophistication will rise

Mahnax

Yes. I'm very studious, I don't think I'll have problems anytime soon.

user116848

hi

Ice Boy

hi pal

user116848

how are you doing @IceBoy?

user116848

16:35

Or skull :)

Ice Boy

fine thanks @Arrowfar how are you?

user116848

I am good. thanks.

Will Hunting

@Mahnax What is the calculus textbook your class is using?

Mahnax

@WillHunting Uh, let me see.

This one.

Will Hunting

@Mahnax That's a very expensive book. Are you buying it?

Mahnax

16:40

@WillHunting Yes, I bought that one. At our bookstore, it's bundled with a code that I need.

Will Hunting

@Mahnax That author built a 20 million dollar house. Did you know?

user116848

@Mahnax By code you mean some integration, differentiation etc. code?

Mahnax

@WillHunting Nope, I had no idea.

Will Hunting

@Arrowfar Password to access features.

Mahnax

@Arrowfar No, an access code for an online program.

user116848

16:41

Ah. that

Robusto

@IceBoy Fine? After your beloved Raiders got whacked by the Jets?

Ice Boy

@Robusto Gotta pay the Vega$ bills pal ;-)

Robusto

Don't feel bad. Pats and Bears both lost too.

Will Hunting

I am thinking if I should go to the casino and play and try to win some money.

Mahnax

@WillHunting No.

Will Hunting

16:45

@Mahnax Good, good. Are you still with Maria?

Robusto

@WillHunting Bear in mind that the odds are not with you.

Mahnax

@WillHunting Yep.

Will Hunting

@Mahnax Good, good. I am still looking for my Maria.

Mahnax

@WillHunting Maybe you'll meet them in grad school.

Will Hunting

@Robusto The hundred dollar entrance fee is enough to deter me from going.

RutvikSutaria

16:46

@WillHunting I thought there is another user having same Avatar. But seems you have changed name

Will Hunting

@RutvikSutaria I have many usernames.

@Mahnax I am trying to get well first, hopefully by the end of next year.

@Mahnax thestar.com/news/gta/2011/02/04/the_house_that_math_built.html

user116848

That's a very big house

Will Hunting

I think Mahnax has left.

user116848

Ya, or may be busy

Will Hunting

@Arrowfar You can edit your message instead of delete it.

user116848

16:54

Yes I know. I was having some connection problem that's why when I tried to edit it it became a copy itself :)

Will Hunting

There are always problems with chat.

user116848

Yes.

Cerberus

Hello.

user116848

Oh, hello! Cerbs

Cerberus

Hiya!

How is Pakistan?

user116848

16:57

Did you have fun at the country?

user116848

@Cerberus Same old same old :)

Cerberus

In the country, yes, we did.

Good! I think.

Will Hunting

@Cerberus How are you and Mario? When are you getting married?

user116848

@Cerberus How is your dating going these days? :-)

Cerberus

@WillHunting Haha we are good.

@Arrowfar Good!

terdon

16:59

Married? Married? Say it ain't so! Say you're not inviting some random religious or secular authority to put their stamp of approval on your relationship!

Cerberus

Our next date will be on Wednesday.

@terdon You know Jasper likes to eh...rush things.

terdon

OK, phew.

Cerberus

I just nod these days.

Will Hunting

They should let me order a robot bride online, lol.

I should marry a robot, since there are no humans.

Cerberus

@terdon At any rate, marriage doesn't have to be about your relationship, but about eternal loyalty?

terdon

17:01

@Cerberus That's a fine and noble thing. I just don't see why you need anyone else involved. Just pledge it to each other before your friends and family.

Cerberus

Maybe you are even more motivated to stick with it if let the state participate?

Will Hunting

@terdon Also, before me in this chat. I am Father Jaspero.

Cerberus

And, if you have children, don't you think it's better for the state to be involved as an insurance policy, in case things turn sour?

terdon

@Cerberus Yeah, marriage statistics clearly show that :)

Cerberus

I don't know, don't they?

Besides, I am not a statistic; are you?

We are unlikely to act like "most people".

terdon

17:03

@Cerberus That depends on your legal system. But yes, bureaucratic idiocies is the only valid reason I can think of to marry someone.

Will Hunting

Divorce is on the rise.

terdon

@Cerberus Well, given the rate of divorce, I would be very surprised to find that they do.

And we're all statistics. At best, we're outliers.

Ice Boy

@Cerberus It was quiet here without you around :-)

Cerberus

@terdon I think a registered partnership is legally the same here.

terdon

Exactly.

Cerberus

17:08

@terdon What I am saying is that statistics only provide useful information about particulars if you know very little about those particulars. If, however, you know a lot about a particular case, statistics become less useful.

Will Hunting

What do you think of polyamorous relationships?

@Cerberus Agreed.

Cerberus

As long as people are happy, the should do it.

In any case, it is no business of the state to interfere with amorous relationships in that way.

But I suspect them to be often unstable and/or unequal, depending on their composition.

Ice Boy

17:31

@Cerberus how do you leave your avatar here when you were not at your computer over the weekend?

terdon

Just leave the computer on.

Cerberus

@IceBoy I left my computer on.

It is a waste of money, but I'm often too lazy to shut it off.

And it can be convenient if I need to access documents on it when I am away.

terdon

@Cerberus Not sure it is. I'll have to look into this again but a few years ago I tested and a PC uses way more energy when booting/shutting down than when just sitting there idle.

You'd have to calculate how many idle hours make it worthwhile.

Cerberus

@terdon Ummm hardly!

I have done so.

And measured how much energy it uses.

Ice Boy

but I have burned out a computer by leaving it on :(

Cerberus

17:33

It was either 120 or 160 W with the screen on, 40 W less with the screen off.

Perhaps if I have it turn off the hard drive when idle, it will use a little bit less (but not that much less).

Of course it can use a lot more energy when the CPU and video card are running at full steam, but that rarely happens.

My PSU is 520 W.

terdon

@IceBoy Huh? How did you manage to do that?

Cerberus

@terdon Perhaps that was about laptops, but their energy use is negligible anyway.

Ice Boy

@terdon I just left it running

not "sleep"

Cerberus

I don't think mine uses a sleep mode...

What kind of computer was it?

Ice Boy

LG

desktop

terdon

17:38

@IceBoy And that burned it? Actually harmed the hardware?

Cerberus

What part was damaged?

This computer has been on 24/7 on most days for 6 years now.

Of course I built it myself...

Ice Boy

yay, it stopped working, and the repair guy said the memory was partially burned out

Cerberus

@IceBoy Okay, so the memory must have been faulty. I presume it was easy to replace?

I see you have changed your name.

Johan Larsson

Change it to never turn off monitor and name it Max CO2

Cerberus

Haha yay!

Ice Boy

17:40

nah, i just bought a new one

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Perhaps I should set it to go to standby after an hour. Will it still continue to run my torrenting programme in standby?

@IceBoy Why?

Ice Boy

it was too slow

Cerberus

A couple of new memory sticks are like €40.

You wanted a new one anyway?

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus prolly not

Cerberus

Hmm.

And Dropbox?

I actually think Utorrent will just prevent the computer from going into standby.

I saw this video review of a certain tablet, and look who is on that tablet!!

Johan Larsson

17:45

!

this chat?

Cerberus

The presenter was standing at a convention about mobile gadgets in Germany.

@JohanLarsson No, a different website. But my posts!

Johan Larsson

#famous

Cerberus

Extremely!!

Ice Boy

:-O

celebrity!

Mahnax

17:59

@WillHunting Sorry, I had to hurry.

Matt Эллен

18:34

@Cerberus Oh I see. all this time you've been working for Android!

no wonder you campaign against iphones so much

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ummm posting messages on a random tech site means you're working for Android?

Tweakers.net does not work for Android, if only because Android is just an open-source OS, not an employer!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus clearly. how else would your posts get randomly picked?

Cerberus

Haha.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus OVER A LOT time ago.

Cerberus

Those posts of mine were actually below an article about the new Xperia Compact phone, while this review is about the new Xperia tablet. So that is probably why the presenter-editor of Tweakers.net was browsing that page at the convention.

RegDwigнt

18:37

Oh, I'm walking in on a technology presentation. Again.

terdon

@RegDwigнt Huh? Did I miss a fight? Why do I always miss the drama? pouts.

RegDwigнt

There was a fight?

I'm even missing what you are missing, so you're not that bad off.

I'm also noticing @tchrist polluting the starboard with XKCD. Now that's something I'd not mind missing.

And Ice Boy is missing all his comments. Poor boy.

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: There was an old woman from Hove Who favourite colour was mauve She wore it all day It made her f…

posted on September 08, 2014 by sgdi

There was an old woman from Hove Who favourite colour was mauve She wore it all day It made her feel gay And so into Brighton she drove

Matt Эллен

that should say whose

terdon

3 hours ago, by Ice Boy

after the fight, it was sort of a semi-retiement

Cerberus

18:50

@RegDwigнt Oh, you mean from answering questions.

@RegDwigнt Not really, I was just bragging about being in a video from a tablet review.

Nothing technical.

RegDwigнt

A limerick who's
Supposed to say *whose*
But fails to do so
One time in a row
Is something I don't mind to lose.

@Cerberus yeah like totally. "Video". "Tablet". "About". Totally not technical.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt Very poetic.

RegDwigнt

It's the only licence I got.

I keep getting reps for stuffs I swear I never answered.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwigнt

2

A: Singular of "vertices"

Neither Merriam-Webster nor Wiktionary have an entry for vertice, and I have never encountered it myself. Then again, I am heavily biased, working a lot with graphs. The British National Corpus has 44 cites for vertex, 19 for vertices, but none for vertice (well, it does have exactly one, but j...

It's four years old. And people gimme points. Sheesh.

Matt Эллен

18:57

the best kind of reps are the ones you don't expect!

RegDwigнt

Most of my reps are Spanish Inquisition reps.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwigнt

I used to maintain money-for-jam stats. I haven't in years. I should resume.

Feb 1 '11 at 12:02, by RegDwight

ShreevatsaR leads by average answer score; Robusto leads by average rep per day; Dusty is the least downvoted; mmyers needs the least keystrokes per rep point; nohat is leading by passive rep; etc.

Something tells me I should be leading in the passive-rep stats now.

I would guess it's my pride.

Matt Эллен

science only knows

RegDwigнt

religion only guesses

I see @Cerberus now has a job cutting beards.

0

A: Origin of the expression "landed in a tub of butter" (meaning lucky)?

In Amsterdam I heard my barber say, "His nose fell in the butter." When I asked what the expression meant, he said, to be lucky.

Congratulations, Cerberus!

Cerberus

19:08

@RegDwigнt The video is just "look a new tablet, doesn't it look nice?".

@RegDwigнt Haha, that is indeed a Dutch expression.

@WalterNoons: Literally translated, the Dutch expression goes, "he fell with his nose into the butter". — Cerberus 19 secs ago

RegDwigнt

Dutch is so butter.

Some languages are just butt. But Dutch is butter.

Matt Эллен

what is buttest?

RegDwigнt

According to Google Image Search, this.

Matt Эллен

nice. not what I would have guessed

RegDwigнt

It's the buttest of all jokes.

You can't spell test without buttest. Or was it the other way round? I forget.

Cerberus

19:13

@RegDwigнt It sure looks butt, but buttest? Really?

RegDwigнt

First-world standards. You live in the First World. You should know. But you don't. That means you must be Dutch.

Cerberus

Um.

Okay.

RegDwigнt

Prosit.

Cerberus

We have only very few streets with 1700 house numbers.

RegDwigнt

I haven't bashed the Netherregions for weeks. I see you've been getting used to it. I can't allow that.

Matt Эллен

19:15

Butte St. does it go up to 9000?

RegDwigнt

It goes all the way to 9000 and then 11.

Matt Эллен

What? That's over 9000?!

RegDwigнt

Incredible, I know?

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Oops then you must work harder.

Bust your nether regions.

We will not object to your personal fetishes.

tchrist

1

A: What are Java Programmers called?

As a former employee of Sun Microsystems, I think I can explain why there is no single word for Java programmers. To preserve its trademark, Sun had a policy of discouraging any creative modification of the word "Java". For example, the use of the once-current word "Javatized" to mean "implemen...

RegDwigнt

19:17

@Cerberus Ik werke harder als wij spreken.

tchrist

hardst

RegDwigнt

@tchrist they are called giant Ls. Apply directly to forehead.

tchrist

Ellis Island Ferrous Reels?

RegDwigнt

Better than Argentum reels fo sho.

Argentumous? I stick with Argentum.

Don't cry for me, Aurumtina.

Ten minutes ago I read Jasper's comment as "That author built a 20 dollar house". And was quite impressed. Though also bored. Now I read it as "That author built a 20 million dollar house". This inflation is too damn high.

Speaking of high, how come Cerberus never sends me any weed. That's not very cool at all.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt What language is that?

Afrikaans?

RegDwigнt

19:26

@Cerberus ananas.

@Cerberus and stop bashing that nice lady from SA.

Cerberus

Who?

RegDwigнt

You talked to her. You should rememb oh sorry my bad.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I've never bought any, that's why. The next time I buy some, I will send it to you.

RegDwigнt

Stacey Anne, South Africa

2.8k 1 5 30

vhdl fpga xilinx verilog ethernet design c

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Haha you fool.

I do remember her, yes.

But I thought you meant Seasoned Advice. You know I suck at abbreviations.

RegDwigнt

19:28

@Cerberus no, I meant StackAnalyzer, in point of fact.

absint.com/stackanalyzer

> Stack overflow is now a thing of the past.

See.

Cerberus

Oh, better.

Can we get rid of SE now?

Maybe we could sell the room to an advertising company.

RegDwigнt

Yes. My cunning plan has always been to sell off this room to Instagram and then retire.

Mitch

@Cerberus Or rent it out to a temporary lodger.

RegDwigнt

I will rent it out to the temporary lodger that is Mitch for just $3000.

Mitch

But we'll be getting their junk mail for ages.

RegDwigнt

19:38

A minute.

Mitch

looks for change in sofa

RegDwigнt

@Mitch Junk mail is free. Sign up while the prices still last.

Mitch

How about a grilled cheese sandwich?

RegDwigнt

At a dime a dozen these are not quite as cheap. But I'm working on it.

For $3000 I will work harder. Or not. My choice.

Mitch

A dozen grilled cheese donut holes please.

RegDwigнt

19:40

According to Google, there you are.

Mitch

Mmmm....

Wait...what is the glue for?

RegDwigнt

For keeping the holes together.

What a very stupid question!

Mitch

Shut your cheese hole!

RegDwigнt

I will shut it for $2999.

Mitch

notices prices getting better. will wait it out

RegDwigнt

19:41

Deflation is not your friend, buddy.

Cerberus

19:53

@Mitch Like whom? Your humble self?

@RegDwigнt You think we'll have that?

Mitch

@RegDwigнt "2 oz processed american cheese (we used velveeta), sliced into squares"

@Cerberus No way. I would never stoop so low. Unless of course the joists in the basement ceiling were too low.

Cerberus

Umm.

If the joists were too low, you would want to lodge here?

Robusto

20:19

@Mitch Velveeta is lower than whale shit.

RegDwigнt

V vor Velveeta.

►

user116848

Oh, I used to love watchin Sienfiled

user116848

*watching

RegDwigнt

Arrow up to edit.

user116848

ha-ha :)

RegDwigнt

20:21

And watchin is fine.

As long as the balls don't touch.

user116848

I see :-)

RegDwigнt

67

Q: Idiom or word for a very crowded place

There is a popular idiom in Russian for describing a really crowded place: "(there's) no room for an apple to fall" ("яблоку негде упасть"). I struggle to think of anything similar in English, and the dictionaries I consulted were of no help, simply translating it as "crowded" or not even inclu...

single-word-requests phrase-requests idiom-requests russian

This damn question just got me a gold badge.

user116848

Yay!

RegDwigнt

Uncréible.

user116848

I upvoted too :)

Cerberus

20:23

Which language is that?

RegDwigнt

It's Dutch.

@Arrowfar you should favorite it, too. Then it's only 90 more favorites till I get another gold badge.

I'm so rich.

user116848

hah :D

user116848

But I think I am gonna pass :-)

RegDwigнt

Such is the ways of the Arrowfar.

Okay who the hell crowded snailboat's gravvy, and what the hell did they crowd it with.

user116848

Okay I'll favorite it :D

RegDwigнt

20:27

Ooooh, free NSFW links! It pays off to be a 10k user.

Except it's only NSFW if you're blind.

Cerberus

Thanks for teaching me.

RegDwigнt

You misspelled $3000.

Cerberus

Haha.

The transfer looks like noise when picked up by a browser, didn't you get it?

And what the hell is that image about?

RegDwigнt

It's about not being safe for work. In Shariah countries.

I don't know. People flag everything.

And for much less than $3000, too.

Anonymous

@RegDwigнt I have no idea what that means. :-)

Mitch

21:02

@Robusto They dig it up from the bottom of the sea? Probably so it is aged better.

RegDwigнt

@snailboat Welcome to the Incomprehensible Room!

Mitch

@Cerberus as long as the stoop is lower than the joists.

RegDwigнt

Also, what is the deal with your gravatar.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Not safe for work? If she were working as a beekeeper, that attire might not be so safe. Or short order cook. Bacon stings

Cerberus

@Mitch You have a stoop?

Are you Quasimodo?

tchrist

23:46

I am mortified that I posted dick shots to ELU. I swear by everything anyone anywhere considers holy, except maybe Bacchus, that I saw no such thing whatsofuckmeever.

Apparently I am dickblind or something.

terdon

@tchrist You wha?

tchrist

12

A: Where did the term redhead come from?

According to the citations provided by the OED for the hair-color sense of ginger, it first came into use during the 19th century. Using red for a hair-color is many centuries older, almost six of them in fact depending on how you count things. That makes ginger a newcomer compared with calling...

Look at the history.

With the little thumbnail I was looking at, I could never see anything that the meta post was complaining about.

There, you tell me. Can you see dick there? I can’t.

Edit 13 removed it.

Apparently the image at the URL was much bigger than I had any idea.

So when I stuck it on imgur, it had a “huge” version.

There, I still can’t see crap.

But click on the image, and abandon all innocence ye who enter.

I truly could never see anything.

Because it never presented to me at that giant size, so I never knew.

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